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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:07:32 AM EDT
[#1]
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the horror! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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there are a bunch of us here on this board that if given steel, wood, aluminum, and plastic and access to a modern 'garage" machine shop could make a hell of a machine gun or subgun...  and some of us could even make the ammo..  Nebraska even has in house ammo factories.  the horror! The FA FCGs, FA bolts, and 3 position selectors would be the hardest part of turning every AR out there into an MG |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:11:41 AM EDT
[#2]
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Which makes me wonder how many American Home Built Machine Guns are out there minus the Form 1's or Form 4's. 
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
Why the " " face? 
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:19:43 AM EDT
[#3]
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Which makes me wonder how many American Home Built Machine Guns are out there minus the Form 1's or Form 4's.
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
A lot more than even most gun people think. And most are a lot better built than any of those shown in that article. My totally unscientific WAG would be that even if the .gov rounded up all the registered "legal" full autos, there would still be several hundred thousand unregistered ones out in circulation. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:22:37 AM EDT
[#4]
 Jus' Sayin' |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:22:52 AM EDT
[#5]
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The FA FCGs, FA bolts, and 3 position selectors would be the hardest part of turning every AR out there into an MG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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there are a bunch of us here on this board that if given steel, wood, aluminum, and plastic and access to a modern 'garage" machine shop could make a hell of a machine gun or subgun... and some of us could even make the ammo.. Nebraska even has in house ammo factories. the horror! The FA FCGs, FA bolts, and 3 position selectors would be the hardest part of turning every AR out there into an MG
no such thing. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:24:09 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:27:58 AM EDT
[#7]
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no such thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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and some of us could even make the ammo.. Nebraska even has in house ammo factories. the horror! The FA FCGs, FA bolts, and 3 position selectors would be the hardest part of turning every AR out there into an MG
no such thing. I meant BCGs 
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:30:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryWouldn't mind having that one |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:32:31 AM EDT
[#9]
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no such thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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and some of us could even make the ammo.. Nebraska even has in house ammo factories. the horror! The FA FCGs, FA bolts, and 3 position selectors would be the hardest part of turning every AR out there into an MG
no such thing. You knew what he meant... |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:34:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryI wouldnt know how to time one of those correctly. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:36:40 AM EDT
[#11]
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You knew what he meant... Unlike women folk, I can't read minds - so I have to go by what is written/spoken. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:46:37 AM EDT
[#12]
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I am too. The sten/grease gun/PPS43 are all crude and extraordinarily easy to make. With the advent of cheap and abundant aluminum and steel, a machine shop could easily produce them by the truckload at less than $50 per unit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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a tube-type open bolt SMG is about the easiest firearm to make, excepting some really rudimentary single shot bang stick. i'm not surprised to see so many. I am too. The sten/grease gun/PPS43 are all crude and extraordinarily easy to make. With the advent of cheap and abundant aluminum and steel, a machine shop could easily produce them by the truckload at less than $50 per unit. Barrels is the weak link. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 9:57:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck no Not with your hand Straight blowback guns seem to be safer than any type of locking bolt weapon. Given a bore obstruction in most pistol calibers, the bolt just moves faster & vents the gasses out of the ejection port & down the magazine well. I'm remembering some common modern carbine X-ray w/ more than half a magazine of boolits in the bbl - I want to say it was a Kel-Tec Sub 9 or .40", & the owner brought it in b/c it wouldn't chamber a round anymore... I'd hate to see the bulges in the cases that thing was ejecting - would be slightly difficult to reload... |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 10:04:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I think people would probably be surprised by how much of this goes on in the back woods of Am.erica. I'm sure everyone here has heard a story or two about some "Good ol Boy" with something he shouldn't have.
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Posted: 2/26/2014 10:09:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Neva Been Dun Befor. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 10:14:15 AM EDT
[#16]
the moral of the story is not to let it get to the point that you have to make weapons in your garage...having to make a few garage modifications for increased ROF may be required when the red storm rises though...
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Posted: 2/26/2014 10:43:23 AM EDT
[#17]
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Man Taurus' R&D department really needs a budget increase You. You nailed it!!! |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 1:21:44 PM EDT
[#19]
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A lot more than even most gun people think. And most are a lot better built than any of those shown in that article. My totally unscientific WAG would be that even if the .gov rounded up all the registered "legal" full autos, there would still be several hundred thousand unregistered ones out in circulation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
A lot more than even most gun people think. And most are a lot better built than any of those shown in that article. My totally unscientific WAG would be that even if the .gov rounded up all the registered "legal" full autos, there would still be several hundred thousand unregistered ones out in circulation. How many of those would be sub machine guns, and how many of those would be beltfeds? |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 1:40:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I was building an open bolt SMG, I'd copy the Suomi/Swedish-K mags though. They're much sturdier than STEN mags. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was looking at the link, and I kept saying to myself "why don't they just copy the STEN?" Sure, it's a little longer than a Ingram or Mini-Uzi copy, but at least it's a simple, proven design. As imperfect as the Stench gun was, I imagine it would be a magnitude more reliable than the crude SMGs on display here. Even the magazines look simple to fabricate. If I was building an open bolt SMG, I'd copy the Suomi/Swedish-K mags though. They're much sturdier than STEN mags. A friend and I are working on building the SGN-9 semiauto carbine that appeared in Shotgun News back in 2008. Instead of the STEN mags specified in the article we're using Suomi magazines because (a) STEN mags aren't $2 a pop anymore, and (b) STEN mags suck anyway. Plus, they'll work in the TNW Suomi I hope to pick up at my FFL tomorrow.  |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 1:54:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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How many of those would be sub machine guns, and how many of those would be beltfeds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
A lot more than even most gun people think. And most are a lot better built than any of those shown in that article. My totally unscientific WAG would be that even if the .gov rounded up all the registered "legal" full autos, there would still be several hundred thousand unregistered ones out in circulation. How many of those would be sub machine guns, and how many of those would be beltfeds? Very very few SMGs and pretty much nonexistent for GPMGs. Very few people who know how easy it is to make a side plate FNMAG or similar gun would drop 5k+ on a parts kit for something that is essentially unusable without an SOT. It's nothing more than an ar15.com masturbatory fantasy. The unaccounted for machineguns are 99% WW2 bringbacks that old guys didn't bother registering in 68 and their families don't know anything about when they pass. What happens is they'll call a dealer and the gun will get cut for a parts kit or turned over. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 2:23:53 PM EDT
[#22]
If I could get a Mac 11-9, or one of the min-Mac's that had the ability to take Beretta magazines (or Glock) I would own one, just for the fuck of it.
Those guys who made the last two examples had the right idea. 
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Posted: 2/26/2014 2:32:45 PM EDT
[#23]
It is possible to 3D print everything needed to convert an AR-15 to FA. One might be surprised by how long it lasts
For the record, I have not done this 
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Posted: 2/26/2014 3:10:31 PM EDT
[#24]
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DUDE! Drilling the Sterling bolt for the firing pin is a PITA! and you will go through a shit ton of carbide drill bits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Open bolt sub guns always looked so simple. I'm building a Suomi from a parts kit, it's actually a lot harder to make it a reliable , legal semi than it would be to make it full auto. LOL same with the STEN and Sterling I built.. it was more work to make it Closed bolt Semi. than the original design was. Doing a KP44 now for someone... .. more work than the full auto...DUDE! Drilling the Sterling bolt for the firing pin is a PITA! and you will go through a shit ton of carbide drill bits. I'm a tool and die maker, and have had occasion to put start holes for wire EDM in trim lowers that were heat treated..... If I can go thru 2 inches of hardened D2 with a resharpened carbide Cement drill that still has life left in it, I'd say that there is something wrong with your process. I'd look at pressure and relief angle on your drill, then look at your speeds. It's better to sharpen one drill 6 times to get thru a hole than to smoke 4 drills. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 3:16:22 PM EDT
[#25]
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Barrels is the weak link. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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a tube-type open bolt SMG is about the easiest firearm to make, excepting some really rudimentary single shot bang stick. i'm not surprised to see so many. I am too. The sten/grease gun/PPS43 are all crude and extraordinarily easy to make. With the advent of cheap and abundant aluminum and steel, a machine shop could easily produce them by the truckload at less than $50 per unit. Barrels is the weak link. Not really. I could do a barrel for a sub gun for $1 if you don't date about accuracy (smoothbore) or add a hour of time to rifle. Modern advances in machining and fabrication makes it quite easy for one guy to churn out 100 when copies every few days. Get real fancy and do the fcg parts via automated water jet and you could do thousands of parts a day. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 3:28:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Interdasting...
Ingenuity never ceases to amaze. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 4:45:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns. Quoted:
Barrels is the weak link. As a quiet reminder, the underground gun shops in Poland that were making SMG's for the resistance figured out that a smooth-bore Sten (ie. simple bored tube, no rifling) remained minute-of-Nazi accurate at the expected urban engagement distances (50 meters or so). Just saying... 
As pointed out, an open-bolt fixed-firing-pin blow-back action SMG is the single simplest repeating firearm to make. I'd say the hardest part of the whole ordeal would be making a reliable magazine for it. |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:28:25 PM EDT
[#28]
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It is possible to 3D print mosteverything needed to makeconvert an AR-15 AND convert it to FA. One might be surprised by how long it lasts FIFY Hammers, sears, triggers, lower receivers, magazines... |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 5:46:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryI feel like I should hide my dog after clicking on that... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/26/2014 6:19:13 PM EDT
[#30]
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I feel like I should hide my dog after clicking on that... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel like I should hide my dog after clicking on that... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile i saved it and printed it off! for my firearm history library 
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:13:11 AM EDT
[#31]
heres some more...these look a little more safe
http://amodestpublication.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/loyalist-paramilitary-improvised-machine-guns/ http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Avenger_SMG |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:27:14 AM EDT
[#32]
Look like that most common design is coming from this book
The book doesn't tell you how to rifle a barrel. I would look at buying STEN or Uzi barrels and seeing how the design could be adapted to accept them.
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:28:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Can you imagine the disappointment of all the ATF agents who flocked to this thread based on the title alone?
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:56:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look like that most common design is coming from this book http://www.amazon.com/Do---Yourself-Submachine-Gun-Durable--ebook/dp/B0035JJPFY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393511119&sr=8-1&keywords=do+it+yourself+submachine+gun The book doesn't tell you how to rifle a barrel. I would look at buying STEN or Uzi barrels and seeing how the design could be adapted to accept them. very easily with sten barrels...but if youre just using them to acquire better weapons, you dont really need any rifling.. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:28:46 AM EDT
[#35]
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Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
Considering I have seen books on how to build one out of hardware store parts, I'd imagine a lot. |
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Posted: 2/27/2014 8:24:17 AM EDT
[#36]
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Posted: 2/27/2014 8:31:06 AM EDT
[#37]
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i saved it and printed it off! for my firearm history library
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I feel like I should hide my dog after clicking on that... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile i saved it and printed it off! for my firearm history library
That plus a file = Constructive intent. eta 
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Posted: 2/27/2014 5:28:46 PM EDT
[#38]
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Very very few SMGs and pretty much nonexistent for GPMGs. Very few people who know how easy it is to make a side plate FNMAG or similar gun would drop 5k+ on a parts kit for something that is essentially unusable without an SOT. It's nothing more than an ar15.com masturbatory fantasy. The unaccounted for machineguns are 99% WW2 bringbacks that old guys didn't bother registering in 68 and their families don't know anything about when they pass. What happens is they'll call a dealer and the gun will get cut for a parts kit or turned over. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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If the liberals ever manage to make all private gun ownership "illegal", American machine shops might produce some really interesting guns.
A lot more than even most gun people think. And most are a lot better built than any of those shown in that article. My totally unscientific WAG would be that even if the .gov rounded up all the registered "legal" full autos, there would still be several hundred thousand unregistered ones out in circulation. How many of those would be sub machine guns, and how many of those would be beltfeds? Very very few SMGs and pretty much nonexistent for GPMGs. Very few people who know how easy it is to make a side plate FNMAG or similar gun would drop 5k+ on a parts kit for something that is essentially unusable without an SOT. It's nothing more than an ar15.com masturbatory fantasy. The unaccounted for machineguns are 99% WW2 bringbacks that old guys didn't bother registering in 68 and their families don't know anything about when they pass. What happens is they'll call a dealer and the gun will get cut for a parts kit or turned over. LOL! If you really believe that, I hope it let's you sleep at night. You really think those tens of thousands of STEN, Swedish K, Uzi, etc. kits over the past few years were bought to build semi-autos or wall hanger dummy guns? Edit: deleted longer response, no need to give ATF lurkers any ideas.
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Posted: 2/27/2014 6:28:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:LOL! If you really believe that, I hope it let's you sleep at night.
You really think those tens of thousands of STEN, Swedish K, Uzi, etc. kits over the past few years were bought to build semi-autos or wall hanger dummy guns? Edit: deleted longer response, no need to give ATF lurkers any ideas.
 Right, they were all imported to make shitty SMGs for the 2nd revolution army of arfcom, my mistake.
I personally sleep just fine at night and could care less if someone is building STENs in their basement. They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 5:34:25 AM EDT
[#40]
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Right, they were all imported to make shitty SMGs for the 2nd revolution army of arfcom, my mistake.
I personally sleep just fine at night and could care less if someone is building STENs in their basement. They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:LOL! If you really believe that, I hope it let's you sleep at night.
You really think those tens of thousands of STEN, Swedish K, Uzi, etc. kits over the past few years were bought to build semi-autos or wall hanger dummy guns? Edit: deleted longer response, no need to give ATF lurkers any ideas.
Right, they were all imported to make shitty SMGs for the 2nd revolution army of arfcom, my mistake.
I personally sleep just fine at night and could care less if someone is building STENs in their basement. They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. Laugh all you want. Hopefully BATF will continue to have that same attitude. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 5:50:19 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right, they were all imported to make shitty SMGs for the 2nd revolution army of arfcom, my mistake.
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Quoted:LOL! If you really believe that, I hope it let's you sleep at night.
You really think those tens of thousands of STEN, Swedish K, Uzi, etc. kits over the past few years were bought to build semi-autos or wall hanger dummy guns? Edit: deleted longer response, no need to give ATF lurkers any ideas.
Right, they were all imported to make shitty SMGs for the 2nd revolution army of arfcom, my mistake.
I think they do it because they can (an American tradition), and because open-bolt sub guns are cheap to make, easy to hide from prying eyes, and cheap to feed. (unlike belt feds). I don't think most do it for 'revolutionary' reasons - they do it because they think it would be fun - like building a rocket sled or a monster truck. and I'd bet a bunch of them don't realize it's illegal, the rest don't care. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 8:02:02 AM EDT
[#42]
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They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. A small, suppressed SMG in 9x19mm or .45ACP firing subsonic that was easily built by a decent machinist with decades of spare parts & mags is far from outdated for guerrilla warfare. And where the fuck are you getting a SAW or M240 with linked ammo in a survival situation? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 8:17:38 AM EDT
[#43]
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A small, suppressed SMG in 9x19mm or .45ACP firing subsonic that was easily built by a decent machinist with decades of spare parts & mags is far from outdated for guerrilla warfare. And where the fuck are you getting a SAW or M240 with linked ammo in a survival situation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. A small, suppressed SMG in 9x19mm or .45ACP firing subsonic that was easily built by a decent machinist with decades of spare parts & mags is far from outdated for guerrilla warfare. And where the fuck are you getting a SAW or M240 with linked ammo in a survival situation? From the ammunition cans marked "DM-6 M80" in my closet?
Have fun attacking guys wearing body armor with an SMG. Sounds like a great Red Dawn fantasy survival plan.
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Posted: 2/28/2014 8:19:27 AM EDT
[#44]
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there are a bunch of us here on this board that if given steel, wood, aluminum, and plastic and access to a modern 'garage" machine shop could make a hell of a machine gun or subgun... Ain't nobody got time fo dat. Just give me a shoelace. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 8:46:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Polish homemade Sten being fired.........
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Posted: 2/28/2014 10:29:02 AM EDT
[#46]
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From the ammunition cans marked "DM-6 M80" in my closet?
Have fun attacking guys wearing body armor with an SMG. Sounds like a great Red Dawn fantasy survival plan.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. A small, suppressed SMG in 9x19mm or .45ACP firing subsonic that was easily built by a decent machinist with decades of spare parts & mags is far from outdated for guerrilla warfare. And where the fuck are you getting a SAW or M240 with linked ammo in a survival situation? From the ammunition cans marked "DM-6 M80" in my closet?
Have fun attacking guys wearing body armor with an SMG. Sounds like a great Red Dawn fantasy survival plan.
Where is your SAW or M240? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 12:22:16 PM EDT
[#47]
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Where is your SAW or M240? Don't have either, why? |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 2:48:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the ammunition cans marked "DM-6 M80" in my closet?
Have fun attacking guys wearing body armor with an SMG. Sounds like a great Red Dawn fantasy survival plan.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They're pointless to me as the only automatic weapons I'd want to have are all beltfed. Illegal MGs are not common regardless of what you think. The ATF already know how easy SMGs are to make, they are smart enough to realize most people aren't going to get popped for a felony for something that was outdated as soon as STG-44s rolled off the assembly line. A small, suppressed SMG in 9x19mm or .45ACP firing subsonic that was easily built by a decent machinist with decades of spare parts & mags is far from outdated for guerrilla warfare. And where the fuck are you getting a SAW or M240 with linked ammo in a survival situation? From the ammunition cans marked "DM-6 M80" in my closet?
Have fun attacking guys wearing body armor with an SMG. Sounds like a great Red Dawn fantasy survival plan.
you would be just as likely to encounter somebody wearing plates..in which case youre shooting them in the head or nuts, and a smg will work for that
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:22:34 PM EDT
[#49]
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Don't have either, why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Where is your SAW or M240? Don't have either, why? That's the fucking point. You don't have a LMG, and its actually a horrible choice unless you have other people to prevent you from being flanked and fragged. Instead you can get your STEN MkIIS from that handy machinist and do Partisan work since the gun shops will be closed at that point. |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 6:29:56 PM EDT
[#50]
No one on here has read P.A. Lutie?
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