User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:42:34 PM EDT
[#1]
Now it's 87 per kill
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:43:20 PM EDT
[#2]
That's still better than the NYPD
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:48:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Rounds out keep going up and our casualties keep going down. Coincidence?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:48:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Increased reliance on small arms instead or artillery.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:51:22 PM EDT
[#5]
I wonder how artillery doctrine and use correlates...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:51:37 PM EDT
[#6]
weapons with higher capacity as well
if everyone is shooting bolt actions at each other less rounds will be exchanged than if everyone is shooting assault rifles at each other yes the higher capacity weapons are "more firepower" but if both sides have them it starts to be a zero sum game |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 7:56:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Supressing fire.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:16:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Data on rounds required for wounding might be interesting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:28:01 PM EDT
[#9]
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:34:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:35:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's still better than the NYPD I laughed 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:38:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us How much the next war is going to cost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:40:20 PM EDT
[#13]
I assume that includes rounds used for stuff like strafing and suppressive fire . A few details would help
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. Last time I looked into the "numbers" game they were using the number of rounds the military fired in total during those war years. That included stateside training and ranges. Still, small arms are some of the least important aspects of military operations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:44:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much the next war is going to cost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us How much the next war is going to cost. Seriously? Are you that ignorant? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:52:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Supressing fire. This ^ DING ! DING ! DING ! DING ! we have a winner. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 8:53:58 PM EDT
[#17]
I better rethink my preps. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:09:28 PM EDT
[#18]
There was a lot more fighting at night against American positions in both Korea and (way more in) Vietnam. Plus the fact that both the NVA and the Viet Cong (up to '68) had tunnel systems and underground lairs allowing them to hide from the rounds impacting in their general direction and then pop up else where, and then the whole shooting gallery would start up again.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:12:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Are those rounds fired in theater, or rounds fired in combat?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:15:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I saw this: "In Would War II, the United States and its allies expended 25,000 rounds of ammunition to kill a single enemy soldier. In the Korean War, the ammunition expenditure had increased four-fold to 100,000 rounds per soldier; in the Vietnam War, that figure had doubled to 200,000 rounds of ammunition for the death of a single enemy soldier." here: http://www.thegunzone.com/opentip-ammo.html Is this because more full auto weapons were used in each war? Something else? Seems like a huge increase in ammo/kill. Think about all the aircraft mounted weapons, and anti aircraft guns. I bet a ton of ammo is expended through them per kill. Its not small arms that upped those numbers that high. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:22:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seriously? Are you that ignorant? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us How much the next war is going to cost. Seriously? Are you that ignorant? And which office in JMC procurement do you work in, stud? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:26:57 PM EDT
[#22]
well.. the point of war isnt to kill. its to capture ground and destroy the enemy's will to fight. killing is a biproduct of.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2014 9:33:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And which office in JMC procurement do you work in, stud? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess the data has been amended. I always heard that Vietnam was 50,000 rounds per kill. yea who knows how they came up with those numbers anyhow total rounds expended in war/enemy KIA..........what does that really tell us How much the next war is going to cost. Seriously? Are you that ignorant? And which office in JMC procurement do you work in, stud? Your latest post reeks of seriousness, thus perhaps I misjudged the first one. I took your first post to be one of the growing we're broke screw the .mil types, if this wasn't the case then you have my apologies. Let's be honest though, small arms ammunition is such a small cost compared to our other costs these days. The B1 CAS sorties overhead cost far more than the entire expenditure of my troop's entire deployment, including missiles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:34:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your latest post reeks of seriousness, thus perhaps I misjudged the first one. I took your first post to be one of the growing we're broke screw the .mil types, if this wasn't the case then you have my apologies. Let's be honest though, small arms ammunition is such a small cost compared to our other costs these days. The B1 CAS sorties overhead cost far more than the entire expenditure of my troop's entire deployment, including missiles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:SNIP Your latest post reeks of seriousness, thus perhaps I misjudged the first one. I took your first post to be one of the growing we're broke screw the .mil types, if this wasn't the case then you have my apologies. Let's be honest though, small arms ammunition is such a small cost compared to our other costs these days. The B1 CAS sorties overhead cost far more than the entire expenditure of my troop's entire deployment, including missiles. I'm a DoD civilian.  I designed the remodeled command suite for the JMC HQ (the people who acquire all Army munitions) and got a small taste of what they do.
I didn't say it was a majority cost, but it's still there. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:38:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Thought it was about suppression fire, and firing being used for movement, as well as better casualty collection info.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:47:03 AM EDT
[#26]
The numbers are SWAGs, no one knows for sure how many rounds are fired, lost/stolen or destroyed in wars
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:48:13 AM EDT
[#27]
Specially considering that the closest count we ever got for resupplies were estimates.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:48:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's still better than the NYPD
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:49:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.
The WWII US military industrial base made billions of small arms cartridges. We shipped out mega-chunks to all our allies (Brits, French, Chinese, etc.) around the world. Once Vietnam and the post Cold War wars rolled around we started using weapons like Miniguns and Vulcans. How many rounds of small arms ammo (say 5.56 and 7.62) can someone estimate were fired in a single hot 5-man LRRP team exfil (considering the rounds fired by the team itself, then adding every 7.62 and .50 cal round fired by Puff, Spooky, and the exfil helos themselves)? In a modern direct action strike how many 7.62 rounds for prep, suppression, and protection can we say are fired in a 160th infil-overwatch/protect- and exfil cycle? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:49:15 AM EDT
[#30]
Can we get a chart in here?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 6:54:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The numbers are SWAGs, no one knows for sure how many rounds are fired, lost/stolen or destroyed in wars This. Literally no way to know. Probably not within an order of magnitude. Crap gets repeated until it's accepted as fact. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:07:47 AM EDT
[#32]
One must maneuver on the enemy in order to kill the enemy.
Maneuver requires mass amounts of ammunition to do so safely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:09:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Also one must keep in mind that ammo doesn't exactly go bad when stored properly. Thus ammo secured for one conflict may not be used for that conflict. I shot .50 cal API in Afghanistan in 2010 that was made in 1952.
The problem is also civilians tend to think in terms of civilian engagements or TV show stuff where you see the bad guy and shoot and kill them in a few rounds. Fire and maneuver, support by fire, recon by fire etc... don't factor into that mindset simply because they don't know or understand the employment or arms by the military vs a SWAT team style CQB action. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:11:27 AM EDT
[#34]
I question the methodology used to arrive at these numbers.
In other words: these figures are BS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:12:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also one must keep in mind that ammo doesn't exactly go bad when stored properly. Thus ammo secured for one conflict may not be used for that conflict. I shot .50 cal API in Afghanistan in 2010 that was made in 1952. The problem is also civilians tend to think in terms of civilian engagements or TV show stuff where you see the bad guy and shoot and kill them in a few rounds. Fire and maneuver, support by fire, recon by fire etc... don't factor into that mindset simply because they don't know or understand the employment or arms by the military vs a SWAT team style CQB action. this... plus training damaged lost given to other countries etc |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:12:42 AM EDT
[#36]
<trollscience>
It's because people are getting bigger, and the 5.56 is a weak round. You only had to shoot small guys 25,000 times with a Garand in WW2. Now you have to shoot them 200,000 times with an M16, because they're bigger and the round is weaker. </trollscience> 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:13:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I question the methodology used to arrive at these numbers. In other words: these figures are BS. They might be low  |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:14:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this... plus training damaged lost given to other countries etc Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also one must keep in mind that ammo doesn't exactly go bad when stored properly. Thus ammo secured for one conflict may not be used for that conflict. I shot .50 cal API in Afghanistan in 2010 that was made in 1952. The problem is also civilians tend to think in terms of civilian engagements or TV show stuff where you see the bad guy and shoot and kill them in a few rounds. Fire and maneuver, support by fire, recon by fire etc... don't factor into that mindset simply because they don't know or understand the employment or arms by the military vs a SWAT team style CQB action. this... plus training damaged lost given to other countries etc Hell, even simple test firing as you step off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:24:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Jeez
 200k? I wont even be able to to kill one bad guy
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/27/2014 7:24:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Does that count include the number of rounds fired by Military Police at dogs?
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
