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Posted: 9/10/2015 7:28:10 PM EDT
Here's my Arizona Response FAL with a shortened barrel. I don't need a bipod that will permanently attach, just one the will fit it and be stable while at the range.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 7:32:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 7:39:33 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Learn to shoot with a lightly-tensioned shooting sling, and save the weight, bulk, and money spent on a bipod.
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Thanks for the tip, as I can already do that. But it might be a bit much for my 12 year old son. You think?

Link Posted: 9/11/2015 12:45:36 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Thanks for the tip, as I can already do that. But it might be a bit much for my 12 year old son. You think?

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/highrailjon/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps17c54152.jpg
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Learn to shoot with a lightly-tensioned shooting sling, and save the weight, bulk, and money spent on a bipod.


Thanks for the tip, as I can already do that. But it might be a bit much for my 12 year old son. You think?

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/highrailjon/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps17c54152.jpg



I doubt it.  I learned to use a sling as a shooting aid around that age.

But the FAL is a poor candidate for it.  The tension needs to be shifted to the rear of the gas block or you will shift POI if there is enough tension to ensure that the sling is doing its job properly of supporting the weight of the rifle so that the arm muscles can relax (which is how it improves stability and thus accuracy).  There are two main ways I've seen this done on the FAL.  

One is to have a means of attaching a swivel to the handguards.  I've seen three methods of doing this.  One is to use a handguard designed to be fitted with a swivel on it, like the later T-48 handguard, which has a swivel in the centre.  Another is to use a metal band around the standard handguard supporting a swivel mounted through the vent holes at the bottom so that tension can be safely applied to the swivel, as was done on some of the Harrington and Richardson FALs made for the U.S. Army.  A third is to attach the swivel to a metal plate contoured to fit the inside of the handguards to accomplish the same thing as an external band when mounting a swivel through the vent holes, which is what the South Africans did.

The other is to attach the sling on the barrel swivel as normally is done and then tie it around the handguards at a spot to the rear of the gas block where a swivel might otherwise be fitted using one of the above methods, and then attaching it to the rear swivel normally from there or attaching the sling with a band (like a Mosin-Nagant dog collar style arrangement) or tie to the handguard or directly tying the sling to the handgard, leaving the front swivel out of the equation.  I've heard of Australians, South Africans, Brits, and Brazilians all using this method in some form.  Typically, some sort of sling extender or Bren gun sling was used to get the necessary extra length when attaching to the swivel first, as this could not be done with a standard-length military FAL sling.  This shifts the point of tension rearwards and away from the barrel.

T-48 handguard with swivel directly attached:



Harrington & Richardson T-48 with swivel attached through handguards supported by a metal band:



South African swivel on a plate allowing mounting through the handguards:



Attachment to front swivel and then to handguard:





As for the use of a bipod, there is such a thing as a quick-detach version of the assault bipod that attaches to the barrel.  It is less common and tends to cost more (I see them selling at around $150).  But the use of the bipod also places tension on the barrel, shifting POI upwards and it also affects the harmonics, reducing accuracy.  It's really meant for full-auto fire, not for precise shooting with single shots.  You can also use the DSA adapter allowing a sporting style QD swivel stud to be mounted through the handguards to allow for the mounting of a Harris bipod or similar bipods.  Also, DSA and I think others make rail sections designed to attach to the bottom of the handguards, to which one could attach a rail-mounted bipod of a similar type.  Such could possibly also be used for mounting swivels to the handguards for slings.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 6:30:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 6:33:17 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I doubt it.  I learned to use a sling as a shooting aid around that age.

But the FAL is a poor candidate for it.  The tension needs to be shifted to the rear of the gas block or you will shift POI if there is enough tension to ensure that the sling is doing its job properly of supporting the weight of the rifle so that the arm muscles can relax (which is how it improves stability and thus accuracy).  There are two main ways I've seen this done on the FAL.  

One is to have a means of attaching a swivel to the handguards.  I've seen three methods of doing this.  One is to use a handguard designed to be fitted with a swivel on it, like the later T-48 handguard, which has a swivel in the centre.  Another is to use a metal band around the standard handguard supporting a swivel mounted through the vent holes at the bottom so that tension can be safely applied to the swivel, as was done on some of the Harrington and Richardson FALs made for the U.S. Army.  A third is to attach the swivel to a metal plate contoured to fit the inside of the handguards to accomplish the same thing as an external band when mounting a swivel through the vent holes, which is what the South Africans did.

The other is to attach the sling on the barrel swivel as normally is done and then tie it around the handguards at a spot to the rear of the gas block where a swivel might otherwise be fitted using one of the above methods, and then attaching it to the rear swivel normally from there or attaching the sling with a band (like a Mosin-Nagant dog collar style arrangement) or tie to the handguard or directly tying the sling to the handgard, leaving the front swivel out of the equation.  I've heard of Australians, South Africans, Brits, and Brazilians all using this method in some form.  Typically, some sort of sling extender or Bren gun sling was used to get the necessary extra length when attaching to the swivel first, as this could not be done with a standard-length military FAL sling.  This shifts the point of tension rearwards and away from the barrel.

T-48 handguard with swivel directly attached:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/TJL429/T48.jpg

Harrington & Richardson T-48 with swivel attached through handguards supported by a metal band:

http://www.cruffler.com/T48-H&R.jpg

South African swivel on a plate allowing mounting through the handguards:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/peterwells/DSCF0111.jpg

Attachment to front swivel and then to handguard:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_H8KDKpNcbYo/TVQ8q4Ph9gI/AAAAAAAABgQ/NULjE1c12rU/s1600/20110210_26.JPG

http://i2.minus.com/idz0Pm.jpg

As for the use of a bipod, there is such a thing as a quick-detach version of the assault bipod that attaches to the barrel.  It is less common and tends to cost more (I see them selling at around $150).  But the use of the bipod also places tension on the barrel, shifting POI upwards and it also affects the harmonics, reducing accuracy.  It's really meant for full-auto fire, not for precise shooting with single shots.  You can also use the DSA adapter allowing a sporting style QD swivel stud to be mounted through the handguards to allow for the mounting of a Harris bipod or similar bipods.  Also, DSA and I think others make rail sections designed to attach to the bottom of the handguards, to which one could attach a rail-mounted bipod of a similar type.  Such could possibly also be used for mounting swivels to the handguards for slings.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Learn to shoot with a lightly-tensioned shooting sling, and save the weight, bulk, and money spent on a bipod.


Thanks for the tip, as I can already do that. But it might be a bit much for my 12 year old son. You think?

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/highrailjon/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zps17c54152.jpg



I doubt it.  I learned to use a sling as a shooting aid around that age.

But the FAL is a poor candidate for it.  The tension needs to be shifted to the rear of the gas block or you will shift POI if there is enough tension to ensure that the sling is doing its job properly of supporting the weight of the rifle so that the arm muscles can relax (which is how it improves stability and thus accuracy).  There are two main ways I've seen this done on the FAL.  

One is to have a means of attaching a swivel to the handguards.  I've seen three methods of doing this.  One is to use a handguard designed to be fitted with a swivel on it, like the later T-48 handguard, which has a swivel in the centre.  Another is to use a metal band around the standard handguard supporting a swivel mounted through the vent holes at the bottom so that tension can be safely applied to the swivel, as was done on some of the Harrington and Richardson FALs made for the U.S. Army.  A third is to attach the swivel to a metal plate contoured to fit the inside of the handguards to accomplish the same thing as an external band when mounting a swivel through the vent holes, which is what the South Africans did.

The other is to attach the sling on the barrel swivel as normally is done and then tie it around the handguards at a spot to the rear of the gas block where a swivel might otherwise be fitted using one of the above methods, and then attaching it to the rear swivel normally from there or attaching the sling with a band (like a Mosin-Nagant dog collar style arrangement) or tie to the handguard or directly tying the sling to the handgard, leaving the front swivel out of the equation.  I've heard of Australians, South Africans, Brits, and Brazilians all using this method in some form.  Typically, some sort of sling extender or Bren gun sling was used to get the necessary extra length when attaching to the swivel first, as this could not be done with a standard-length military FAL sling.  This shifts the point of tension rearwards and away from the barrel.

T-48 handguard with swivel directly attached:

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk198/TJL429/T48.jpg

Harrington & Richardson T-48 with swivel attached through handguards supported by a metal band:

http://www.cruffler.com/T48-H&R.jpg

South African swivel on a plate allowing mounting through the handguards:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/peterwells/DSCF0111.jpg

Attachment to front swivel and then to handguard:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_H8KDKpNcbYo/TVQ8q4Ph9gI/AAAAAAAABgQ/NULjE1c12rU/s1600/20110210_26.JPG

http://i2.minus.com/idz0Pm.jpg

As for the use of a bipod, there is such a thing as a quick-detach version of the assault bipod that attaches to the barrel.  It is less common and tends to cost more (I see them selling at around $150).  But the use of the bipod also places tension on the barrel, shifting POI upwards and it also affects the harmonics, reducing accuracy.  It's really meant for full-auto fire, not for precise shooting with single shots.  You can also use the DSA adapter allowing a sporting style QD swivel stud to be mounted through the handguards to allow for the mounting of a Harris bipod or similar bipods.  Also, DSA and I think others make rail sections designed to attach to the bottom of the handguards, to which one could attach a rail-mounted bipod of a similar type.  Such could possibly also be used for mounting swivels to the handguards for slings.



Great post.
Makes me want to drive 4 hours to go shoot my l1a1
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:03:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I appreciate the very illuminating pix and comments from obvious FAL cognoscenti.  

My question is: Is there some sort of fore-end for the FAL that allows BOTH free-floating the barrel, and a secure sling attachment point near the rifle's front sight?  I understand that DSA makes a metal fore-end, but they are a little cagey about such an over-barrel, railed fore-end, being used either as a shooting sling anchor point, or a ROCK SOLID scout scope mount.  I understand that the DSA device is perfectly fine for short-range optics, but I want to mount optics on my FAL that maximize it's range, not minimize it.
View Quote


There is a free float handguard out there, but I forget who makes it.  It's completely round (and IMO is not aesthetically pleasing) and has slots which I believe can be used for attachments.  I've seen people mount Uncle Mike's style QD swivel studs to it at various points along the bottom and use it with a shooting sling (both conventional and also speed loop slings like the Ching sling).  You can't use it to mount optics, though, as far as I know.

VLTOR makes a better railed handguard than DSA's.  It has a continuous top rail and the rest allows for mounting rails where you please.  I've heard of someone removing the top rail and modifying the top to allow it to also be fitted with rail segments at the user's leisure.  I don't know how stable it is for use with optics.  It's not free-floating.  I'm not sure if it allows for mounting a QD swivel at the bottom (I'm actually trying to find that out).  You can use VLTOR's MODPOD with it, though, which could be useful for the OP, since a bipod mounted in the same manner as the French FAMAS and FRF2 should not have any impact on the barrel that would affect accuracy or POI in any significant way.  They are rather expensive, though (around $325 for the handguards).  Also, DSA's extended scope mount lines up perfectly with the VLTOR top handguard rail so you can have one long continuous rail from front to back (and they make parts to allow you to replace the front and rear sights with rails which also line up, so you could use folding BUIS, although you'd need a stock like the ACR stock to get proper cheek weld).
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:13:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:16:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Great looking rifle.  Less fond of your sons jersey but at least he's a fan of the right sport.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:24:01 PM EDT
[#9]
I just looked and it is DSA and Entreprise Arms which make them, although supposedly they are not true free-float handguards, but are close enough.  They don't allow mounting optics on top; the gas tube is exposed.  Ed Vandenburg at Vandenburg Custom Guns makes a true free float handguard, but it requires permanent modifications to the rifle.  It also does not allow mounting optics on top of the handguard, as it is also open-topped.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:24:48 PM EDT
[#10]
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/falbipodmetricfnpatternstg58style.aspx




Get a stg 58 bipod and the handguards so it folds into invisibility/
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:33:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/falbipodmetricfnpatternstg58style.aspx

Get a stg 58 bipod and the handguards so it folds into invisibility/
View Quote


He wants the ability to quickly remove the bipod.  The StG-58 bipod is different from the QD version.
Link Posted: 9/11/2015 7:35:35 PM EDT
[#12]
I bought my STG kit for the sole purpose of a built in bipod LOL.



Link Posted: 9/11/2015 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#13]
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