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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:20:40 AM EDT
Can anyone explain their unique shape? I know they are variable pitch, but what's with the secondaries?

Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:23:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:25:15 AM EDT
[#2]
I was expecting pasties.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:29:17 AM EDT
[#4]
N for the answer.  I've never seen propellers like those.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:29:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do those second ones turn? I have no idea but guessing I'd say they are to direct the thrust of the main propellers to make them more efficient.
View Quote



Second ones don't look like they turn.  I am betting they are to prevent cavitation or minimize it so the water flowing behind the ship is smoother and reduces vibration on the hull.

ETA:

Or maybe they do:


Cunard ordered two five bladed and adjustable propellers, which each would have a diameter 5.8 meters. Attached to the propellers would be two Grimm-wheels (I don’t know if that’s also the name in English but that’s what it’s called in Dutch). These Grimm-wheels are 15% to 20% larger in diameter then the propellers and are attached behind the propellers. These Grimm-wheels rotate separately from the propellers and use the slip streams created by the propellers to gain 3,5% of propulsion energy which else would be lost.


The propellers were designed to function with Grimm Wheels. The seven-bladed vane wheels were fitted behind the propellers and freely rotate on the same shaft. These wheels are in use on other ships to reclaim part of the energy normally lost in the slip stream of the propeller and convert it into additional thrust. They were predicted to do the same on the Queen Elizabeth 2 and to save 2 to 4 percent in fuel costs. Unfortunately, some of the vanes were lost during trials, so the remainder of the blades on both shafts were removed and not replaced.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:33:44 AM EDT
[#6]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Do those second ones turn? I have no idea but guessing I'd say they are to direct the thrust of the main propellers to make them more efficient.
View Quote




This.  And I don't see any way those second ones turn, it wouldn't produce much thrust and take a ton of power.  



 
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:35:33 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks Phatmax.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:35:43 AM EDT
[#8]
From Wikipedia

Also during refit, the fixed-pitch propellers were replaced with variable-pitch propellers. The old steam engines required astern turbines to move the ship backwards or stop her moving forward. The pitch of the new variable pitch blades, however, could simply be reversed, causing a reversal of propeller thrust while maintaining the same direction of propeller rotation, allowing the ship shorter stopping times and improved handling characteristics. The new propellers were originally fitted with "Grim Wheels", named after their inventor, Dr.-Ing. Otto Grim.[114] These were free-spinning propeller blades fitted behind the main propellers, with long vanes protruding from the centre hub. These were designed to recover lost propeller thrust and reduce fuel consumption by 2.5 to 3%. However, after the trial of these wheels, when the ship was drydocked, the majority of the vanes on each wheel were discovered to have broken off, and so the wheels were removed and the project abandoned.
View Quote


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Elizabeth_2
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:36:38 AM EDT
[#9]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Second ones don't look like they turn.  I am betting they are to prevent cavitation or minimize it so the water flowing behind the ship is smoother and reduces vibration on the hull.



ETA:



Or maybe they do:





Cunard ordered two five bladed and adjustable propellers, which each would have a diameter 5.8 meters. Attached to the propellers would be two Grimm-wheels (I don’t know if that’s also the name in English but that’s what it’s called in Dutch). These Grimm-wheels are 15% to 20% larger in diameter then the propellers and are attached behind the propellers. These Grimm-wheels rotate separately from the propellers and use the slip streams created by the propellers to gain 3,5% of propulsion energy which else would be lost.





The propellers were designed to function with Grimm Wheels. The seven-bladed vane wheels were fitted behind the propellers and freely rotate on the same shaft. These wheels are in use on other ships to reclaim part of the energy normally lost in the slip stream of the propeller and convert it into additional thrust. They were predicted to do the same on the Queen Elizabeth 2 and to save 2 to 4 percent in fuel costs. Unfortunately, some of the vanes were lost during trials, so the remainder of the blades on both shafts were removed and not replaced.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

Do those second ones turn? I have no idea but guessing I'd say they are to direct the thrust of the main propellers to make them more efficient.






Second ones don't look like they turn.  I am betting they are to prevent cavitation or minimize it so the water flowing behind the ship is smoother and reduces vibration on the hull.



ETA:



Or maybe they do:





Cunard ordered two five bladed and adjustable propellers, which each would have a diameter 5.8 meters. Attached to the propellers would be two Grimm-wheels (I don’t know if that’s also the name in English but that’s what it’s called in Dutch). These Grimm-wheels are 15% to 20% larger in diameter then the propellers and are attached behind the propellers. These Grimm-wheels rotate separately from the propellers and use the slip streams created by the propellers to gain 3,5% of propulsion energy which else would be lost.





The propellers were designed to function with Grimm Wheels. The seven-bladed vane wheels were fitted behind the propellers and freely rotate on the same shaft. These wheels are in use on other ships to reclaim part of the energy normally lost in the slip stream of the propeller and convert it into additional thrust. They were predicted to do the same on the Queen Elizabeth 2 and to save 2 to 4 percent in fuel costs. Unfortunately, some of the vanes were lost during trials, so the remainder of the blades on both shafts were removed and not replaced.


Interdasting.  http://www.roblightbody.com/qe2-1987-rebirth.html




QE2
is the first passenger ship to use Grim Wheels (so called because they
were invented by Dr Ing Otto Grim) in an attempt to make the new QE2
even more  efficient.  These wheels spin freely in the wake of the main
propellers.   The innermost parts of each of the 7 blades pick up speed
from the propeller,  while the outermost parts act as propellers
themselves, adding some forward  motion to the ship for "free",
capturing energy which would otherwise be wasted.   The Grim Wheels are
6.7 meters in diameter.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:37:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This.  And I don't see any way those second ones turn, it wouldn't produce much thrust and take a ton of power.  
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do those second ones turn? I have no idea but guessing I'd say they are to direct the thrust of the main propellers to make them more efficient.


This.  And I don't see any way those second ones turn, it wouldn't produce much thrust and take a ton of power.  
 


Looks like they're just along for the ride (freely spin),  and through the magic of hydrodynamics contribute to some efficiency increase.  Probably has something to do with turbulence reduction.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:38:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Not one Hunt For Red October joke. I am disappoint.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:48:02 AM EDT
[#12]
At first I thought they might be post-swirl stator blades - in short, a fixed set of propeller blades that extract the "lost" energy produced by the propeller in creating swirl in flow downstream of the prop.  A quick Google search shows that they are Grim Vane Wheels, which probably work on the same principle, but apparently didn't work on the QE2.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:48:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not one Hunt For Red October joke. I am disappoint.
View Quote


Not even a single ping.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:52:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not one Hunt For Red October joke. I am disappoint.
View Quote


Careful, lad, shome thingsh in here don't react well to bulletsh.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 11:55:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was expecting sour pasties.
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:00:02 PM EDT
[#16]
The props in the photo do not look like variable pitch.

The secondarys look like they are to minimize cavitation.  And/or increase efficiency.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:01:06 PM EDT
[#17]
That's the VTEC.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:12:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The props in the photo do not look like variable pitch.

The secondarys look like they are to minimize cavitation.  And/or increase efficiency.
View Quote



The driven propellers are variable. The engines are unidirectional.

It appears, from the above responses, that the secondaries capture the primary propeller thrust and extend the span, adding thrust.

Here's the Russians adding things to reduce cavitation and wake.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:24:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 12:28:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The driven propellers are variable. The engines are unidirectional.

It appears, from the above responses, that the secondaries capture the primary propeller thrust and extend the span, adding thrust.

Here's the Russians adding things to reduce cavitation and wake.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6je-EdVyF8TFyXXhwLmYvVz0n39hm_SNw4GUfk4vbTYAVbf1Qpg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The props in the photo do not look like variable pitch.

The secondarys look like they are to minimize cavitation.  And/or increase efficiency.



The driven propellers are variable. The engines are unidirectional.

It appears, from the above responses, that the secondaries capture the primary propeller thrust and extend the span, adding thrust.

Here's the Russians adding things to reduce cavitation and wake.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6je-EdVyF8TFyXXhwLmYvVz0n39hm_SNw4GUfk4vbTYAVbf1Qpg


Wouldn't adding pistol grips create even more thrusts per squeeze?
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 1:02:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Just like a cross cut paper shredder.  Can't have an overboard passenger just shredded lengthwise.  The bits fit into the long handled pool debris strainer much better.
Link Posted: 2/4/2016 1:36:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Looks like they're just along for the ride (freely spin),  and through the magic of hydrodynamics contribute to some efficiency increase.  Probably has something to do with turbulence reduction.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do those second ones turn? I have no idea but guessing I'd say they are to direct the thrust of the main propellers to make them more efficient.


This.  And I don't see any way those second ones turn, it wouldn't produce much thrust and take a ton of power.  
 


Looks like they're just along for the ride (freely spin),  and through the magic of hydrodynamics contribute to some efficiency increase.  Probably has something to do with turbulence reduction.



They don't really "freely spin".  They are driven by the prop wash from the unit in front of them, on the inner part of the vanes.  This allows the outer part to generate some thrust.  It lets the combination act like a larger diameter propeller than can be physically installed at the location of the first propeller, which can increase thrust efficiency.
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