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Posted: 10/8/2016 1:03:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Estonian officials have said that Russia appears to be moving powerful, nuclear capable missiles into Kaliningrad, a Russian outpost province sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania along the Baltic coast. The Iskander-M missiles, which have a range of over 500km, are reportedly being transported by ship from the St Petersburg area. It had previously been reported that the Russians might seek to place the Iskander-M missiles in Kaliningrad but not until 2018-19. If confirmed, the move would be seen by western governments as another sign that Russia is seeking to establish facts on the ground, from eastern Europe to the Middle East, before a new US president takes office in January. Estonian officials said they were monitoring the ship and its contents. The ship, called the Ambal, was due to dock on Friday; reports of the cargo came from Estonian government sources. An Estonian defence expert said: "This weapon is highly sophisticated and there is no comparable weapon in western armoury. It can carry nuclear weapons, change direction mid-flight and fly distances of up to 500km. As such it is capable of threatening Poland, including the US missile defence installations there. You would not change the date of the delivery of a system such as this on a whim. The intention is to make a strong strategic point.” The Russians already have a missile brigade on Kaliningrad, but the OTR-21 Tochka short-range missile is less sophisticated, and not capable of carrying nuclear weapons. The Iskander-M, the Persian name for Alexander the Great, is a ballistic rocket system designed to destroy strategic targets, and its stationing is arguably in breach of the intermediate-range nuclear forces treaty. Marko Mihkelson, the chairman of the Estonian parliament’s national defence committee, told Estonian news agency ERR on Friday that since the transportation of the system was now taking place with the help of a civilian vessel, he had reason to think that Russia was trying to take the missiles to Kaliningrad in secret. Mihkelson added that what was going on was part of a broader security situation, and that it was Russia’s intent to provoke western governments and increase pressure on them. On Monday Russia cancelled its weapon-grade plutonium disposal agreement with the US. "In any case, what is called for now is to remain calm, and to treat these incidents as attempted blackmail,” Mihkelson said. "Russia is simply showing its desire to reinforce its position at the entrance to the Baltic Sea.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/07/russia-moving-nuclear-capable-missiles-into-kaliningrad-says-estonia   |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 2:38:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummmm.... it is their territory. They can place nukes there and troops there. So you would agree that the US was in the wrong for blockading Cuba in 1962 as they were invited protection from the US? |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 3:17:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I wish we'd buy ATACMS or LORA, and place them on Gotland. The Russians would throw a hissyfit.
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Posted: 10/8/2016 3:30:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would smash Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
American stupidity is worse than terrorism - Russiahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVoLgD1RIxE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVoLgD1RIxEWould smash |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 3:50:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? Beats the Davy Crockett's range of 1.25 miles! They are not armed with multi-megaton Tsar Bomba warheads. |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 3:56:52 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beats the Davy Crockett's range of 1.25 miles! They are not armed with multi-megaton Tsar Bomba warheads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? Beats the Davy Crockett's range of 1.25 miles! They are not armed with multi-megaton Tsar Bomba warheads. The Davy Crockett was a cool weapon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM  |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 4:17:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
meh, typical Russia attempting to influence USA politics before an election. Why you people who are over 35 years of age pay attention to Putin as if he's somebody as important as Kim Jung Il is mind-boggling. Really. You've lived through enough of the manipulation in your lives, but now him moving equipment around is cause for you to claim your own government react in some childish way. You people - as citizens who don't take lessons very well - are a hindrance to this country. You may not like Obama, or anyone running the country, but asking our leadership to do something stupid to satiate your Putin-fed desires is disgusting. Wat |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 4:28:31 PM EDT
[#8]
We should put Pershing II back in Turkey
We should put a bunch of THAAD and GBI units in Poland and Lithuania (Poland wants this at the very least) and develop Liepaja, Latvia (old Soviet Naval Base that the Latvians want to develop for NATO naval use) so we can just park 1-2 SSBNs right there. Then we negotiate a mutual withdrawal of the nukes (but we keep the ABM systems). |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 4:39:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What's the big deal, Kaliningrad is sovereign Russian territory "US moving nuclear missiles into Alaska". Would anyone bat an eye about that? We can't be doing shit then turn around and get mad when someone else does the same. Like or, more probably, not... That's how things work in the world. It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. NATO has built up and will continue to maintain and expand presence in Eastern Europe. Including missiles and nukes. Russia does the same. This isn't even really news. But if it prompts people to learn more about geopolitics, that doesn't hurt. |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 5:54:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish we'd buy ATACMS or LORA, and place them on Gotland. The Russians would throw a hissyfit. Sweden should buy a couple of the M270s Norway got and never used and MGM-140s and it would be worth a giggle. Now THAAD on Gotland would make Russia have a complete meltdown. |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 5:58:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Davy Crockett was a cool weapon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? Beats the Davy Crockett's range of 1.25 miles! They are not armed with multi-megaton Tsar Bomba warheads. The Davy Crockett was a cool weapon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM
That was it? Really? What a disappointment....... |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 6:40:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was it? Really? What a disappointment....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? Beats the Davy Crockett's range of 1.25 miles! They are not armed with multi-megaton Tsar Bomba warheads. The Davy Crockett was a cool weapon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHiihPD7bLM
That was it? Really? What a disappointment....... Worked pretty we in Starship Troopers. Txl |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 6:54:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Vshispka!
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Posted: 10/8/2016 10:53:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What's the big deal, Kaliningrad is sovereign Russian territory "US moving nuclear missiles into Alaska". Would anyone bat an eye about that? We can't be doing shit then turn around and get mad when someone else does the same. Like or, more probably, not... That's how things work in the world. It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. No fucking different than that island in the middle of the Alaska/Russia. Folks go crazy when the Russians post troops there. It's their fucking island! Yes, is Russia doing it for the reasons mentioned. Yup.... are they wrong for it? Nope. NATO is a threat to them. Russia being logical will try to defend themselves. Sovereign Nations do that.... they position their forces in a manner that can defend themselves. They don't lay themselves oen to allow their enemy to fuck them. |
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Posted: 10/8/2016 10:56:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you would agree that the US was in the wrong for blockading Cuba in 1962 as they were invited protection from the US? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ummmm.... it is their territory. They can place nukes there and troops there. So you would agree that the US was in the wrong for blockading Cuba in 1962 as they were invited protection from the US? On the personal side. We should have invaded Cuba long before it got to that level of a problem. The Bay of Pigs should have been a US Invasion and done long before Castro and the USSR got friendly. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:16:36 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is still their sovereign territory and they can post what they want where. No fucking different than that island in the middle of the Alaska/Russia. Folks go crazy when the Russians post troops there. It's their fucking island! Yes, is Russia doing it for the reasons mentioned. Yup.... are they wrong for it? Nope. NATO is a threat to them. Russia being logical will try to defend themselves. Sovereign Nations do that.... they position their forces in a manner that can defend themselves. They don't lay themselves oen to allow their enemy to fuck them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's the big deal, Kaliningrad is sovereign Russian territory "US moving nuclear missiles into Alaska". Would anyone bat an eye about that? We can't be doing shit then turn around and get mad when someone else does the same. Like or, more probably, not... That's how things work in the world. It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. No fucking different than that island in the middle of the Alaska/Russia. Folks go crazy when the Russians post troops there. It's their fucking island! Yes, is Russia doing it for the reasons mentioned. Yup.... are they wrong for it? Nope. NATO is a threat to them. Russia being logical will try to defend themselves. Sovereign Nations do that.... they position their forces in a manner that can defend themselves. They don't lay themselves oen to allow their enemy to fuck them. Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess.  |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:22:01 AM EDT
[#17]
I was in a Pershing II missile unit . I was with 4/9th FA Pershing Charlie Battery , Neckarsulm Germany 1986-88 . Very unique unit. It was nuclear.. Always so damn many inspections and always senators and big wigs coming to see what US tax payers dollars buys. Man we had no real budget. We wanted it we normally got it. I PCSed to an infantry unit and had no money for nothing.
 . I was a 63 Bravo / Hotel 8 . I was not a Missile crewman . Most of my buddies was though ....I was always proud of that time I spent with the 4/9 pershing ....And the stories I could tell.......................... I believe they all got destroyed due to the treaty Wardawg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are there any Pershing IIs available? ETA FBHO |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 12:41:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What's the big deal, Kaliningrad is sovereign Russian territory "US moving nuclear missiles into Alaska". Would anyone bat an eye about that? We can't be doing shit then turn around and get mad when someone else does the same. Like or, more probably, not... That's how things work in the world. It's a deliberate act intended to send a message to NATO, and it has everything to do with the situation in Ukraine and probably Syria as well. Basically they are saying, if NATO tries to build up forces in Eastern Europe, then we have the capability in place to destroy those forces with next to no warning. No fucking different than that island in the middle of the Alaska/Russia. Folks go crazy when the Russians post troops there. It's their fucking island! Yes, is Russia doing it for the reasons mentioned. Yup.... are they wrong for it? Nope. NATO is a threat to them. Russia being logical will try to defend themselves. Sovereign Nations do that.... they position their forces in a manner that can defend themselves. They don't lay themselves oen to allow their enemy to fuck them. Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess. I don't like the Russians but sovereign states should have the right to do what they can to defend their territory. Russia's invasion.of Georgia and Ukraine were wrong. But then again so was our invasion of a number of countries in the Western Hemisphere. But we did it under the Monroe Doctrine. Might makes right. So Russia is using their might to stay sovereign. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 5:17:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess.
You can't trust those shifty Lithuanians. As soon as you turn your back on them they'll try to reform the Commonwealth. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 5:30:17 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? You are aware of the term Tactical are you not?
We had nuke tipped artillery range of 10 to 15 miles, the fallout isn't a problem as long as you don't camp a mile or two downwind from the crater. And forage for irradiated stuff. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 5:31:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Are we supposed to nuke everyone for disagreeing with us, by proxy?
I mean i guess i'm down to throw away another few trillion, by the laws of GD. Oh well, the next gen will fix it for me! And if they don't it means they're all lazy and stuff! |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:46:06 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can't trust those shifty Lithuanians. As soon as you turn your back on them they'll try to reform the Commonwealth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess.
You can't trust those shifty Lithuanians. As soon as you turn your back on them they'll try to reform the Commonwealth. Still mad you lost WWII, bro?
My brother in law lived in Sweden for years, went to school (on the backs of the Swedish taxpayers) at Stockholm School of Economics or whatever it's called. I loved to fuck with his wannabe-Euroweenie self. Told him several times to fuck off or America would kick Sweden's ass again just like in WWII; he didn't know what to say. Best was when I told him he was wasting time in school, Europe had nothing to teach America about business, and as proof: "Did you know that Europe sucks at business so badly that the French language doesn't even have a word for 'entrepreneur?'" He would get this silent scared look on his face like, "oh my god, 'Murica isn't a joke, it's real!" 
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:47:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still mad you lost WWII, bro?
My brother in law lived in Sweden for years, went to school (on the backs of the Swedish taxpayers) at Stockholm School of Economics or whatever it's called. I loved to fuck with his wannabe-Euroweenie self. Told him several times to fuck off or America would kick Sweden's ass again just like in WWII; he didn't know what to say. Best was when I told him he was wasting time in school, Europe had nothing to teach America about business, and as proof: "Did you know that Europe sucks at business so badly that the French language doesn't even have a word for 'entrepreneur?'" He would get this silent scared look on his face like, "oh my god, 'Murica isn't a joke, it's real!"
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess.
You can't trust those shifty Lithuanians. As soon as you turn your back on them they'll try to reform the Commonwealth. Still mad you lost WWII, bro?
My brother in law lived in Sweden for years, went to school (on the backs of the Swedish taxpayers) at Stockholm School of Economics or whatever it's called. I loved to fuck with his wannabe-Euroweenie self. Told him several times to fuck off or America would kick Sweden's ass again just like in WWII; he didn't know what to say. Best was when I told him he was wasting time in school, Europe had nothing to teach America about business, and as proof: "Did you know that Europe sucks at business so badly that the French language doesn't even have a word for 'entrepreneur?'" He would get this silent scared look on his face like, "oh my god, 'Murica isn't a joke, it's real!"
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Posted: 10/9/2016 6:54:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What exactly are you worried about? You are aware of the term Tactical are you not? We had nuke tipped artillery range of 10 to 15 miles, the fallout isn't a problem as long as you don't camp a mile or two downwind from the crater. And forage for irradiated stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
School me on this one, but a nuclear capable missile with a range of a little over 300 miles would not be a good idea for a nuclear warhead, no ? You are aware of the term Tactical are you not? We had nuke tipped artillery range of 10 to 15 miles, the fallout isn't a problem as long as you don't camp a mile or two downwind from the crater. And forage for irradiated stuff. Nuclear weapons evolved into political statements, not military weapons, pretty early in their development. We did not have nukes in Europe because they are extra-powerful for their size. We had nukes in Europe to make the world (especially USSR) know we were serious about our commitment to our national security strategy & geopolitical obligations. Deadly serious. That is why Pershing missiles in Europe was such a big deal. They were an accurate, powerful, open-and-notorious dagger aimed at the physical meeting place of the Politburo itself. That's an attention-getter. Just as if the Soviets had stationed extremely accurate nuclear IRBMs in Cuba, specifically aimed them all at the White House and Capitol Building, and didn't deny it when asked about their target. That kinda scares the politicians and sways national policy big time. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:13:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to nuke everyone for disagreeing with us, by proxy? I mean i guess i'm down to throw away another few trillion, by the laws of GD. Oh well, the next gen will fix it for me! And if they don't it means they're all lazy and stuff! If you are a foreign policy failure because your only foreign policy tools are "say high-minded bossy things and expect everyone to bow down before us because 'Murica is The Indispensable Nation" and "what good is this expensive military if we cannot use it?" then, quite frankly, Yes. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:14:33 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, you're right. Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia are conspiring to claim the Urals for...reasons, I guess.
You can't trust those shifty Lithuanians. As soon as you turn your back on them they'll try to reform the Commonwealth. Still mad you lost WWII, bro?
My brother in law lived in Sweden for years, went to school (on the backs of the Swedish taxpayers) at Stockholm School of Economics or whatever it's called. I loved to fuck with his wannabe-Euroweenie self. Told him several times to fuck off or America would kick Sweden's ass again just like in WWII; he didn't know what to say. Best was when I told him he was wasting time in school, Europe had nothing to teach America about business, and as proof: "Did you know that Europe sucks at business so badly that the French language doesn't even have a word for 'entrepreneur?'" He would get this silent scared look on his face like, "oh my god, 'Murica isn't a joke, it's real!"
I don't care what DK-Prof says about Swedes; you're a good sport. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:47:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryWe could have FBHO and FHRC and their entourage man that camera for the next test launch. We could ask the Rooskies to launch 3 just yo be sure of the capabilities. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:53:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK so what is the fucking EU going to do about it?......Russia is the bum shitting in their back yard. Myself....I'll have a Coke. They will probably invite the Russians into the Union to replace the British. |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 7:56:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do we do this provocative shit? Why are we putting land-based local-range missiles when we spent all that goddamn money on B-2 bombers? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Putin is just reacting to us moving missiles closer to his border. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd17-odPn1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd17-odPn1kWhy do we do this provocative shit? Why are we putting land-based local-range missiles when we spent all that goddamn money on B-2 bombers? |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 8:12:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump doesn't have the Reagan finesse. He'll just blurt out "We'll nuke your ass!" |
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Posted: 10/9/2016 9:08:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK so what is the fucking EU going to do about it?......Russia is the bum shitting in their back yard. Myself....I'll have a Coke. This. |
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