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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:23:17 AM EST
In search of the fragmentation threshold for this ammo, Andrew tests M855A1 at reduced velocity.
 M855A1 Reduced Velocity | Ballistic Gel Test |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:25:23 AM EST
[#1]
In.
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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:39:13 AM EST
[#2]
Thank you Stylz and bluefalcon.
I love seeing this stuff. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:48:20 AM EST
[#3]
Awesome
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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:53:52 AM EST
[#4]
Great video!
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Posted: 9/12/2017 11:59:46 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you Stylz and bluefalcon. I love seeing this stuff. Much appreciated. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:03:57 PM EST
[#6]
In before "why is this tacked"
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:18:06 PM EST
[#7]
M855A1 runs at 2,920FPS from a 14.5" M4A1.
Given that, what distance would that be for 2,436FPS? Either way, I still can't believe the Army is moving away from this round 
Makes me sad to see. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:28:46 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M855A1 runs at 2,920FPS from a 14.5" M4A1. Given that, what distance would that be for 2,436FPS? Either way, I still can't believe the Army is moving away from this round
Makes me sad to see. But I agree |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:45:38 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M80A1 bro But I agree M855A1 is a devastating round, that is also light, compact, and fired from a light gun that has minimal recoil. It's like one of the greatest inventions in small arms....and the Army is just abandoning it, because may Gran pappy's 7.62!! |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:58:10 PM EST
[#10]
Can it be that it is rumored to be loaded really hot and is beating up guns? Thanks for testing the ammo by the way although I am not sure when it will be available loaded and not as components.
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Posted: 9/12/2017 12:59:21 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can it be that it is rumored to be loaded really hot and is beating up guns? Thanks for testing the ammo by the way although I am not sure when it will be available loaded and not as components. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:00:05 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can it be that it is rumored to be loaded really hot and is beating up guns? Thanks for testing the ammo by the way although I am not sure when it will be available loaded and not as components. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:05:01 PM EST
[#13]
They're ditching it?
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:13:23 PM EST
[#14]
So where can I purchase M855A1 for testing?
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:17:44 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you Stylz and bluefalcon. I love seeing this stuff. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:22:34 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can it be that it is rumored to be loaded really hot and is beating up guns? Thanks for testing the ammo by the way although I am not sure when it will be available loaded and not as components. Issue is SMP-842 was developed for M855A1 and tuned to operate in a Carbine length gas system optimally. This was proven during the individual Carbine competition where the M4A1 out performed every piston gun in parts life. Op rod guns get beat pretty badly though with the round. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:23:29 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're ditching it? The Army is holding a competition for a general issue 7.62 rifle to replace the M4. Hopefully if fails and gets cancelled, but I'm not holding my breath. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:30:26 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're ditching it? |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:37:29 PM EST
[#19]
I want to see what it does in hogs now.
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:49:56 PM EST
[#20]
Good info bluefalcon.
I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. 
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:53:04 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In. 
ETA: M855A1 is a mean little bastard. 
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:56:35 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:56:38 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 1:57:33 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could you pick a saltier hat? |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:00:55 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just so you know, I hate you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg 
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:07:39 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate that I have so many more to load.....
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/03A3A315-3320-48FD-B9D9-3001872FEBFC.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/03A3A315-3320-48FD-B9D9-3001872FEBFC.jpg |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:10:01 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:18:07 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info bluefalcon. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs on pigs here in a few weeks. http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn38/rccox/Guns/DE582236-05E1-49C1-9DC7-16C20B905BCF.jpg |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 2:30:26 PM EST
[#29]
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Posted: 9/12/2017 4:48:35 PM EST
[#30]
Awesome video.
Where is everyone finding pulldowns? |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 6:00:53 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Early versions were really hot, not anymore. It's hard on piston guns (the bolt specifically) but it's fine in DI guns. |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 9:08:44 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Awesome video. Where is everyone finding pulldowns? |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 9:22:29 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great video! |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 9:33:19 PM EST
[#34]
So here's an interesting question for salad days for ammo prices - this for 16-SBR 10.5" vs IMI/magtech 77 OTM?
Happy to spend your money on awesome vids 
Thx as always |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 10:32:05 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most likely, hopefully not. The Army is holding a competition for a general issue 7.62 rifle to replace the M4. Hopefully if fails and gets cancelled, but I'm not holding my breath. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They're ditching it? The Army is holding a competition for a general issue 7.62 rifle to replace the M4. Hopefully if fails and gets cancelled, but I'm not holding my breath. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 8:41:33 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This--is anyone selling these, other than GunBroker where they're $5/each? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Awesome video. Where is everyone finding pulldowns? |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 8:53:28 AM EST
[#37]
Damn son, you white as fuck!
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Posted: 9/13/2017 10:07:53 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not the same. M855A1 is a devastating round, that is also light, compact, and fired from a light gun that has minimal recoil. It's like one of the greatest inventions in small arms....and the Army is just abandoning it, because may Gran pappy's 7.62!! Oh well. I wonder if the civilian market will ever see A1 become commonly available? |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 10:17:04 AM EST
[#39]
How "final" is the decision to replace the M4 / 5.56 round with a new 7.62 rifle? As "final" as the XM8 replacement plans were?
Even if it is going to happen "for sure", what is the realistic time frame they are looking at until the M4 / 5.56 is realistically phased out and replaced? 10 years? Longer? I can't really imagine that they M4 and 5.56 will be across the board replace for general purpose by 7.62. Maybe if they adopted an intermediate cartridge, it would replace it across the board. Or if they make a quantum leap in small arms development (caseless ammo, fletchette system, directed energy weapons). Otherwise I seriously doubt that logistics would justify 7.62 replacing 5.56 in any meaningful quantity. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 11:32:30 AM EST
[#40]
Damn son!
I need some of this ammo immediately. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 12:24:16 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryYeah, I need to adjust the settings on that camera.
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Posted: 9/13/2017 1:12:33 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How "final" is the decision to replace the M4 / 5.56 round with a new 7.62 rifle? As "final" as the XM8 replacement plans were? Even if it is going to happen "for sure", what is the realistic time frame they are looking at until the M4 / 5.56 is realistically phased out and replaced? 10 years? Longer? I can't really imagine that they M4 and 5.56 will be across the board replace for general purpose by 7.62. Maybe if they adopted an intermediate cartridge, it would replace it across the board. Or if they make a quantum leap in small arms development (caseless ammo, fletchette system, directed energy weapons). Otherwise I seriously doubt that logistics would justify 7.62 replacing 5.56 in any meaningful quantity. It's happening. The plan is to begin rollout to the most BCTs who are most likely to fight Russia first, then continue from there. I don't know a timeline but I'd guess 10years to get it out to all active duty personal once the ICSR has been selected. Supposedly the "interim" part of the ICSR is because they plan to go to whatever round the SAAC study finds is the best. Every round in the SAAC is in the 6.5 range, but all are like .264, .277, etc so none of the rounds being tested fit in the AR-15 and require a rifle in the 7.62 category to fit in. So the idea is, issue the ICSR now and get the gun in soldiers hands, then in a few years begin converting that gun to the new caliber via barrel, bolt, and possibly magazine changes. It's happening, it's guaranteed and it will most likely be the SCAR-H as the requirements are basically custom built for the SCAR-H. That or a bullpup, but the testing procedures and requirements favor anything that's a bullpup or has a folding stock. Nothing in the ICSR favors a AR-10 platform rifle. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 1:29:46 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's as "final" as the adoption of XM16 was. It's happening. The plan is to begin rollout to the most BCTs who are most likely to fight Russia first, then continue from there. I don't know a timeline but I'd guess 10years to get it out to all active duty personal once the ICSR has been selected. Supposedly the "interim" part of the ICSR is because they plan to go to whatever round the SAAC study finds is the best. Every round in the SAAC is in the 6.5 range, but all are like .264, .277, etc so none of the rounds being tested fit in the AR-15 and require a rifle in the 7.62 category to fit in. So the idea is, issue the ICSR now and get the gun in soldiers hands, then in a few years begin converting that gun to the new caliber via barrel, bolt, and possibly magazine changes. It's happening, it's guaranteed and it will most likely be the SCAR-H as the requirements are basically custom built for the SCAR-H. That or a bullpup, but the testing procedures and requirements favor anything that's a bullpup or has a folding stock. Nothing in the ICSR favors a AR-10 platform rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How "final" is the decision to replace the M4 / 5.56 round with a new 7.62 rifle? As "final" as the XM8 replacement plans were? Even if it is going to happen "for sure", what is the realistic time frame they are looking at until the M4 / 5.56 is realistically phased out and replaced? 10 years? Longer? I can't really imagine that they M4 and 5.56 will be across the board replace for general purpose by 7.62. Maybe if they adopted an intermediate cartridge, it would replace it across the board. Or if they make a quantum leap in small arms development (caseless ammo, fletchette system, directed energy weapons). Otherwise I seriously doubt that logistics would justify 7.62 replacing 5.56 in any meaningful quantity. It's happening. The plan is to begin rollout to the most BCTs who are most likely to fight Russia first, then continue from there. I don't know a timeline but I'd guess 10years to get it out to all active duty personal once the ICSR has been selected. Supposedly the "interim" part of the ICSR is because they plan to go to whatever round the SAAC study finds is the best. Every round in the SAAC is in the 6.5 range, but all are like .264, .277, etc so none of the rounds being tested fit in the AR-15 and require a rifle in the 7.62 category to fit in. So the idea is, issue the ICSR now and get the gun in soldiers hands, then in a few years begin converting that gun to the new caliber via barrel, bolt, and possibly magazine changes. It's happening, it's guaranteed and it will most likely be the SCAR-H as the requirements are basically custom built for the SCAR-H. That or a bullpup, but the testing procedures and requirements favor anything that's a bullpup or has a folding stock. Nothing in the ICSR favors a AR-10 platform rifle. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 1:38:44 PM EST
[#44]
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=f19586d13f3072ad831ac8863fe6bcf8&_cview=0
Doesn't seem too "final" to me..... Just an information request. Where is the source that says this is going to happen 100%, or that even if it did that it would fully supplant the current M4 and 5.56 weapons system and not just compliment it?? This announcement constitutes an official Request for Information (RFI) for an Interim Combat Service Rifle (ICSR). The U.S. Army, Army Contracting Command – New Jersey at Picatinny Arsenal is conducting a market survey on behalf of Product Manager Individual Weapons to identify potential sources for a combat rifle system.
This Request For Information (RFI) is for planning purposes only and should not be construed as a Request for Proposal or as an obligation on the part of the Government to acquire any services or hardware. Your response to this RFI will be treated as information only. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 1:51:02 PM EST
[#45]
Yeah, even if it moves forward into fruition, it totally "replacing" the M4 and 5.56mm is definitely BS. Though what else can you expect from the chicken little syndrome of GD?
http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/06/us-army-issues-solicitation-for/ The Notice states that the Army plans to purchase up to 50,000 examples of the rifle which must be in 7.62mm NATO, capable of semi and full-auto. It must also be designed for use with a suppressor. Interestingly, the ICSR’s attributes aren’t quite as stringent as they were two months... |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 1:58:16 PM EST
[#46]
speaking of your favorite jello flavor...
if you get a chance, vote for your favorite install video: Larue Upper Assembly VOTE |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 2:57:47 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, even if it moves forward into fruition, it totally "replacing" the M4 and 5.56mm is definitely BS. Though what else can you expect from the chicken little syndrome of GD? http://soldiersystems.net/2017/08/06/us-army-issues-solicitation-for/ "Up to" being the key phrase there, and 50,000 isn't a lot either. How many ARs are there currently in all branches of the military? You have to look at it as a whole picture. The future NGSAR to replace the M249 is going to be a IAR like the M27 but in 7.62. going over the Q&A, and knowing what I've been told they are wanting a beefed up ICSR for the role of a magazine fed, less than 11lb IAR for the NGSAR. They also want the M110 replacement(because the M110A1 has been defunded due to performance) to be a accurized version of the ICSR. If you look at the ICSR it's requirements greatly favor the SCAR-H, or a bullpup. Issue is we have seen that the SCAR-H can be made into the roles wanted of the NGSAR and M110 replacement, ala Mk-20, and the IAR entrant the FN HAMR. Originally when the RFI was released they wanted 10,000 rifles with pretty high requirements. When the RFP came out they asked for 50,000 with incredibly low requirements. Now according to the information I have received that requirement has grown to include all BCTs initially, and eventually all active duty personnel. So eventually 500,000 ICSRs for all active duty Army, and then the NGSAR and M110 replacement will be modified ICSRs. That is the goal according to what I've been told, and no....I can't tell you who told me. We don't have to like it, but the ICSR is happening and it's being spearheaded by Army Chief of Staff Milley and funded by Congress. It's happening. Phase I of the ICSR began Sept 6th, 2017. It will last up to, but no longer than 4 months. Downselect vendors will be notified of their downselect. They will downselect to 8 separate rifles. They then have 30 days to submit 7 rifles, cleaning kits, manuals, spare parts, suppressors, etc for Phase II. Phase II will fire 25,000-35,000 rounds through the 7 rifles and entrants have been notified to submit spare parts planning for an expected service life of 5,000 rounds. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 3:19:49 PM EST
[#48]
Like I said, that potentional procurement doesn't mean the M4 and 5.56 are being totally phased out. My gut tells me this is a big nothing burger, and I've come to trust my gut. They may procure some new .308 rifles, they've always had some .308 rifles for specific missions / roles. No big surprise there. The M4 and 5.56 round isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Posted: 9/13/2017 3:27:55 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like I said, that potentional procurement doesn't mean the M4 and 5.56 are being totally phased out. My gut tells me this is a big nothing burger, and I've come to trust my gut. They may procure some new .308 rifles, they've always had some .308 rifles for specific missions / roles. No big surprise there. The M4 and 5.56 round isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Also the ICSR trials are currently progressing. They began Sept 6, 2017. However in a way you are correct, 5.56 M4s will continue on in Reserve and rear echelon units for a while. Those are the units who generally still use old M16s at this point. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 3:30:57 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We'll see who ends up correct when it all passes, but from what I'm getting the ICSR is the future as Milley sees it...and at the end of the day he's the top man and that's all that matters. Also the ICSR trials are currently progressing. They began Sept 6, 2017. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Like I said, that potentional procurement doesn't mean the M4 and 5.56 are being totally phased out. My gut tells me this is a big nothing burger, and I've come to trust my gut. They may procure some new .308 rifles, they've always had some .308 rifles for specific missions / roles. No big surprise there. The M4 and 5.56 round isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Also the ICSR trials are currently progressing. They began Sept 6, 2017. The future isn't a shortened WWI cartridge. The future is either caseless cartridges, magnetically propelled bullets, or projected energy / particle weapons. |
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