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Posted: 11/20/2017 1:11:27 AM EST
[#1]
I used a DPMS SASS in .308 for 8 years. And wonder of wonders it delivered .308 bullets to the animal which did what .308 bullets do and killed them dead as doornails. Generally only one round expended from the magazine.
I tend to favor my Rem700 compact tactical these days. A bit lighter and a bit less harsh to use in the cold but the DPMS always goes with too as a backup or just because I feel like using it instead. Someday I plan to add a 6.5CM upper to the collection. That’s the beauty of the AR10/SR25 pattern rifles. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 1:13:43 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: this. 5.56 with a good bullet is good for southern whitetail under 200. 75gr gold dot is my choice. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 1:19:42 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big are the white tails on your property? Like weight wise? |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 1:20:07 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big are the white tails on your property? Like weight wise? |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 1:22:40 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bucks 150 +/- 25#. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 7:12:39 AM EST
[#6]
I hunt....a lot. Counting bow season and gun season, I have 42 sits for deer so far this year. I tend to challenge myself weapon-wise....I hunt with longbows, recurves, flintlocks....the most modern things I hunt with are lever action rifles and modern Ruger revolvers. It is an aesthetics thing to me....I like going back in time a bit and hunting in a more simple way. I also don't wear commercial camouflage.
"Fudd" is a mindset, and I am not one. I think everyone should own firearms for defense, and an AR fits the bill perfectly. I just never looked at them as hunting tools. Until recently. Because of changing laws in Michigan, I had a Marlin lever gun converted to 450 Bushmaster (I have mentioned this before). I have now killed both a deer and a bear in this caliber, and it is flippin awesome. I guarantee by next fall I will have a 450 upper for my AR, dedicated for deer hunting. The after hunt pictures will make some true Fudd's head explode....Plaid coat, wool pants, Stormy Kromer hat....AND A FIGHTING RIFLE!!!! 
I think it's a great trend, the deeper the AR goes in our sporting society, the safer it will be. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 7:22:56 AM EST
[#7]
We still hunted a forest here in SD last weekend for deer that was full of elk sign.
A lightweight .308 AR would be perfect there. .300WaM was a little much, but my wife is tough and likes it. Our bolt guns are less than eight pounds, don't cost much, and reach out to distance with authority. One issue I never see brought up in this conversation is carry ability. Bolt guns are smooth and easy to drag around where as AR platform is full of angles and sharp edges. Far more comfortable to carry a bolt gun all day. I never have tried to put my scoped AR in the Kifaru Gunbearer I use when I hunt. Maybe this week as we are swapping scopes back to our .223 rifles. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 8:03:22 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this. 5.56 with a good bullet is good for southern whitetail under 200. 75gr gold dot is my choice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Use a 5.56 upper with good bullet. Fusion or TSX seem to be favored, but there are many options. Keep shots under 200. 5.56 with a good bullet is good for southern whitetail under 200. 75gr gold dot is my choice.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 8:11:59 AM EST
[#9]
Nice deer ytka.
I've seen one squerril this morning. Saw 7 does yesterday evening |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 8:23:36 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice deer ytka. I've seen one squerril this morning. Saw 7 does yesterday evening |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 2:10:44 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you use the 160gr Flex Tip, you will have more energy with the .30-30 within 150yds from a 24" barrel. Most people I've observed shooting .30-30 from the 1970s-present buy the cheapest Remington Core Lokt or Winchester Power Point 150-170gr ammo they can find at Wal-Mart. BCs on those are in the .1s for G1, like a rock, with more recoil. The most common .30-30s are 20" barrels, which by Hornady's own data will bring the mv down to 2300fps with that 160gr Flex Tip. Big picture: You'll have much better results with a 6.5 Grendel AR15 than a .30-30 for the simple reason of being able to practice hitting your intended vital zone-sized target, and the terminal performance is more than plenty within common hunting distances with 6.5 Grendel, while also offering more terminal performance at intermediate hunting ranges of 225-400yds at sea level. The rounded or flat in some cases bullet shape of the traditional .30-30 loading actually benefits performance at the distances most hunters shoot game (150 yards or under). If you've never used one, those bullets always give a perfect mushroom and will penetrate fully giving a nice blood trail, an important quality when 25 yards of brush might as well be 2500 yards. With exceptional .30 caliber performance, enhanced performance to 225 ish yards with modern pointed Hornady ammo, unbeatable handling and pointability, short and maneuverable carbines that are lighter weight than most other options, inexpensive and probably the most available centerfire rifle ammo in existence, panache and tradition that can't be duplicated and finally a warm fuzzy feeling when one is laying across your lap...let's just saying that I won't be buying a 6.5 Grendel AR anytime soon. This wasn't a 6.5 G vs .30-30 Win thing and I'm not sure how it turned into that. The century old cartridge is still surprisingly spry even when comparing it to a newcomer such as that, which is probably why it's still so popular in the tree stands and hunting blinds of America. Hunting with granpa's old 'thuty thuty' doesn't sell new rifles, scopes, accessories, ammo or reloading equipment however. Big picture: a lever action carbine chambered in .30-30 Winchester makes more sense for the vast majority of hunters than any rifle chambered in 6.5 Grendel. Cost, availability and performance at the ranges which the vast majority of game is killed all favor the old carbine. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 2:15:05 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People who hunt with AR-15's need to go be poor somewhere else. Yes, with different uppers, and sometimes mags, you can use an AR-15 for most North American Hunting. If I could only own one rifle, it would be an AR-15. I can own a whole fucking safe (or more) though. There are specialized weapons that can do a specific task better than a generic AR platform, even with all the specialized customization and modularity the Ar platform provides. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 2:31:06 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yeah this pretty much, seen em as small as 125, as big as 175, bigger ones rarer obviously. 125 to 150 most common. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 2:33:25 PM EST
[#14]
First weekend hunting with the new 450 Bushmaster. Didn't kill anything but it carries nicely stalking Saturday in the wind before that storm and sitting in the stands most of Sunday. Hopefully this coming weekend it will put meat in the freezer.
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Posted: 11/20/2017 2:35:13 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I shot this one with 62gr Fusion last night. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/222790/image-368206.JPG I lost a much smaller Carolina deer using the same ammo and have sworn it off since. Perfect shot. Watched the broadside impact. Watched him run away across the field and into the thickets at 100mph. Never found a drop of blood. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 3:26:36 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome buck!!! I lost a much smaller Carolina deer using the same ammo and have sworn it off since. Perfect shot. Watched the broadside impact. Watched him run away across the field and into the thickets at 100mph. Never found a drop of blood. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 6:55:52 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was the range of the shot? Hey, if they work for you...cool. I would never trust them again. Hell, I just shot a medium sized deer a couple days ago with a .308 and got acceptable, but middling performance. No way I'd trust something that small again. Deer ran about 15 yards and dropped dead. Angling away shot. Penetrated through ribs, then lungs and into off shoulder exploding it. Lots of meat jello on that side of the body. Stopped before exiting. Winchester 150 grain Powerpoints. |
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Posted: 11/20/2017 8:44:01 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Approximately 125. Google earthed it later that evening to the point she was standing in the field. Hey, if they work for you...cool. I would never trust them again. Hell, I just shot a medium sized deer a couple days ago with a .308 and got acceptable, but middling performance. No way I'd trust something that small again. Deer ran about 15 yards and dropped dead. Angling away shot. Penetrated through ribs, then lungs and into off shoulder exploding it. Lots of meat jello on that side of the body. Stopped before exiting. Winchester 150 grain Powerpoints. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 8:37:22 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I shot this one with 62gr Fusion last night. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/222790/image-368206.JPG |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 8:42:38 AM EST
[#20]
I gave my .308 hunting rifle to my son as it was getting to be uncomfortable to shoot as it hurt my shoulder. I really like my AR-10. My shoulder doesn’t hurt as much and I like the way it feels as I sight in targets. Modern Sporting Rifles are the way to go.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 8:54:28 AM EST
[#21]
Can we stop saying this anti 2A "Modern Sporting Rifle" nonsense. I don't own a single "sporting" rifle and most of my rifles are lever actions.
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Posted: 11/21/2017 9:21:03 AM EST
[#22]
Quoted:
I just ran my .260 Remington and 6.5 22"-24" data with the exact same bullet against 22-24" Grendel data. That's 2720fps mv for the Grendel, and 2890fps mv for the 6.5CM. With the much larger case and higher operating pressure the Creedmoor produces much better ballistics. Quoted:
Rolling 123s out of the creedmoor is pure fuckery. Give me the 147s. I think the 130gr VLD is about perfect for hunting with a 6.5 CM gas gun.  Attached FileThe new hotness is the 6mm Creedmoor in the 22 inch semi auto. 105gr VLDS at 3000fps in a self loader does not suck.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 10:01:16 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hogdon has real pressure data for both cartridges and the 6.5 Creedmoor has a 400fps advantage over the 6.5 Grendel with 123gr bullets at max loads for both. With the much larger case and higher operating pressure the Creedmoor produces much better ballistics. I like the flatter mid range for hunting that the mid weight bullets offer. I think the 130gr VLD is about perfect for hunting with a 6.5 CM gas gun. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20171119_170811933-369076.JPG The new hotness is the 6mm Creedmoor in the 22 inch semi auto. 105gr VLDS at 3000fps in a self loader does not suck. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/Nate_2-369075.JPG |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 10:38:39 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can we stop saying this anti 2A "Modern Sporting Rifle" nonsense. I don't own a single "sporting" rifle and most of my rifles are lever actions. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 12:12:16 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How much does one of your 6.5cm weigh? I'm doing hold overs might as well get the high BCs.  Attached FileAR-15 with the exact same barrel contour and furniture is just 6 ozs lighter.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 12:23:22 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 lbs with the VX-6 3-18X50mm. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142108294_HDR-369215.JPG AR-15 with the exact same barrel contour and furniture is just 6 ozs lighter. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142739242_HDR-369216.JPG |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 2:45:55 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all this lightweight talk... the joys of having 50 acres to hunt on right outside the back door  gonna build an AR10 in 6.5, put on a 23oz scope and a 21oz can...just because. The 6.5CM is an interesting round. I went with the Grendel since I could built it in an AR-15. I want an AR-10 but they can be really heavy pigs for walking around, much more expensive to buy for and parts can be less compatible with each other. I want one but haven't found a way to justify one yet. I am tempted to go a different direction and build a bolt action 6.5 Swede though. No real reason and in a state that doesn't allow deer hunting with a centerfire rifle firing rifle ammunition it doesn't make a lot of sense... building is so much fun though and I would like to step up from assembling AR's. I don't get the AR being a poor mans anything, you can get a nice bolt gun for the same price as a really cheap AR. My new Ruger American 30-06 is a great hunting rifle and was $357 out the door. Cold hammer forged barrel, three lug bolt, bedded stock, adjustable trigger... I like it. I think each of my three AR's are barely under a grand a pop... and are by no means very fancy. |
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Posted: 11/21/2017 8:03:43 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 lbs with the VX-6 3-18X50mm. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142108294_HDR-369215.JPG AR-15 with the exact same barrel contour and furniture is just 6 ozs lighter. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142739242_HDR-369216.JPG |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 3:36:50 PM EST
[#29]
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Posted: 11/22/2017 7:57:03 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you found a scabbards that work with large AR style rifles? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 10 lbs with the VX-6 3-18X50mm. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142108294_HDR-369215.JPG AR-15 with the exact same barrel contour and furniture is just 6 ozs lighter. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142739242_HDR-369216.JPG Might have one in a few weeks. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 8:13:57 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just enjoy wood on my hunting guns and the look and feel of more traditional hunting firearms...but it's awesome ar's are becoming so common place. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 8:18:27 PM EST
[#32]
 Like I said on pg 1, been hunting with an AR for several years. Put this together this summer when I got the slickside upper from a buddy. Pencil barrel and a Burris 2-7x. Very light, puts 55g TSX into the right place and is bulletproof. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 8:32:59 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1588/13743270/24776623/413664679.jpg http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1588/13743270/24776623/413664685.jpg Like I said on pg 1, been hunting with an AR for several years. Put this together this summer when I got the slickside upper from a buddy. Pencil barrel and a Burris 2-7x. Very light, puts 55g TSX into the right place and is bulletproof. Note my low power scope, a 5.56 hunting gun is not a long range tool for deer and should be glassed as such. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 8:50:34 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What gun is that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just enjoy wood on my hunting guns and the look and feel of more traditional hunting firearms...but it's awesome ar's are becoming so common place. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 8:53:26 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not yet but we are working on it. Might have one in a few weeks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: 10 lbs with the VX-6 3-18X50mm. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142108294_HDR-369215.JPG AR-15 with the exact same barrel contour and furniture is just 6 ozs lighter. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/309674/IMG_20170623_142739242_HDR-369216.JPG Might have one in a few weeks. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 9:05:52 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FDE MagPul in my pic is the only FDE mag I have. It is marked TSX only just like you have done. I keep that mag separate from my HD/yote loaded ones. Note my low power scope, a 5.56 hunting gun is not a long range tool for deer and should be glassed as such. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 9:55:26 PM EST
[#37]
It depends where I am hunting. If in the mountains where I might get a long shot, I almost always will use a bolt gun chambered in a magnum. If in timber where a shot might be close I will use a 358 Winchester AR. I almost always have a 308 AR in my Jeep, mostly for two legged predators but if a game animal crosses my path I am not under gunned. Midwest whitetail will be a 450 Bushmaster AR.
Use what you have and don’t judge what others use. The anti’s want to split the herd to make complete confiscation a reality. After they have AR’s behind them, other gun restrictions will follow. The perception of AR’s in some hunting communities is still negative. Was shooting prairie dogs with a rancher in SD a few years back. When my bolt gun got hot, I got out an AR. The rancher said something like why do you need that? Them dogs ain’t commies. After I dusted off a few dogs, he wanted to give it a try. He had so much fun with it, he was said he was going to get one. He liked the ability to make fast follow up shots on misses or runners and also not have to reload every five shots. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 9:55:45 PM EST
[#38]
I don't know-there's just something so pleasingly aesthetic about a good bolt gun. Shootable, too, with a Ching sling.
Here's my bolt gun, resting against a giant ant hill up in the mountains. I left before the giant ants returned.  Attached File
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Posted: 11/22/2017 11:20:10 PM EST
[#39]
Ants... *shudder*
Hate em. |
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Posted: 11/22/2017 11:39:53 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
About 11 years ago I decided to start hunting with a MSR because I was spending 90% of my time shooting them at the range. So much so that last year, because of landowner requests I hunted with my old bolt gun, and over shot a doe at 50 yards because I wasn't anticipating a single stage trigger. I ended up shooting a deer with a bolt gun last year, but was amazed at how quickly I had lost simple muscle memory of bolt gun work. Their land, their rules, but seems like an odd request..... |
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Posted: 11/23/2017 12:29:00 AM EST
[#41]
The AR platform is the more versatile shooting platform for hunting. You cannot argue that point.
Legal hunting this year in California: 
Prairie Dog hunting: 
Eric |
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Posted: 11/23/2017 10:06:01 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I reading this wrong, or did a landowner request you use a bolt gun and not an AR? Their land, their rules, but seems like an odd request..... His land, his rules. Haven't hunted there in a couple of years. His land, his rules. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 5:38:05 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah this pretty much, seen em as small as 125, as big as 175, bigger ones rarer obviously. 125 to 150 most common. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Bucks 150 +/- 25#. It doesn't matter. Deer are thin skinned animals and their bones aren't like those of Elk, Bear, or .... Muskox. 5.56 will cleanly pass through the lungs of EVERY Whitetail on the planet and will also destroy the innards of a deer that was hit in the shoulder / rib upon entry. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 6:06:07 PM EST
[#44]
might just be demographics, but I have never met a legitimate hunter who uses a black rifle for hunting.
i.e. not a dork who spends all of 1 day scouting to shoot the first 1.5 year old fork horn they see. I'm sure there's some but not around here |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 6:07:28 PM EST
[#45]
in.
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Posted: 11/24/2017 7:30:22 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
might just be demographics, but I have never met a legitimate hunter who uses a black rifle for hunting. i.e. not a dork who spends all of 1 day scouting to shoot the first 1.5 year old fork horn they see. I'm sure there's some but not around here I have been a hunter since I was 10 or so when my pop first took me, I have taken deer with bow and rifle throughout my life. I carry an AR most of the time. I have two bolt guns and two ARs. I like the ARs. I am also a guide and have taken fellow ARFCOMers as customers, their ARs are welcome because like I stated above, they actually shoot their rifles. Many of the customers that use ARs are .mil type and they use what they know. Why change when the manual of arms is the same at work or in the field. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 7:31:47 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in. |
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Posted: 11/24/2017 11:04:11 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL I have been a hunter since I was 10 or so when my pop first took me, I have taken deer with bow and rifle throughout my life. I carry an AR most of the time. I have two bolt guns and two ARs. I like the ARs. I am also a guide and have taken fellow ARFCOMers as customers, their ARs are welcome because like I stated above, they actually shoot their rifles. Many of the customers that use ARs are .mil type and they use what they know. Why change when the manual of arms is the same at work or in the field. |
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Posted: 11/25/2017 1:48:47 AM EST
[#49]
You guys saying an AR doesn’t carry nicely obviously don’t have it set up correctly. All my ARs are set up with padded Blue Force Gear 2 points, they have a tab that the user can pull to cinch in tight or push to create space. Use the QD on the left side of the stock and forearm. The rifle sits across my chest and I can carry it all day hiking miles much more comfortably than a bolt gun slung over my right shoulder in a traditional sling... and by much I mean I have become so spoiled by this set up that if I ever do hunt with a bolt again (doubtful) I will have to modify it to set up the same sling set up. Plus with this arrangement I can snap shoot if I bust something up instantly, something not done well with a rifle hanging off one shoulder.
Also this is arfcom, AR Shooters who want to build a Hunting AR should do it right, with hunting in mind. That means a focus on light weight components, match triggers, sleek non-snagging parts, etc. My purpose built hunting ARs with my handloads are sub MOA, lightweight, sleek, and fast. By using adjustable gas system with a low mass carrier, the ability to fire and maintain sight picture can be achieved, and this is a serious advantage in the field. Anyone who’s shot at some running coyotes can appreciate that. Also by using the correct cartridge (including wildcats) they will cover any job I will need done. Bottom line, to each their own, but since the term “AR” is so ambiguous due to the diversity of types/assemblies etc, To paint with a broad brush and claim “AR’s suck for hunting” is the equivalent of saying shoes suck for running... there are simply too many types of shoes for that statement to be correct. |
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Posted: 11/25/2017 9:39:12 AM EST
[#50]
I would like to see a picture of that, chewbacca. I have never said an AR style rifle sucks for hunting, but the carrying issue is very real. If I have to spend a pile of time on building a lightweight rifle, handloading wildcat cartridges, and forming my carrying style exclusively around my rifle it's a no go for me. Not when I can get the same thing for $600 in a Tikka 6.5 and be done with it.
Just out of curiosity, are you carrying a pack frame and binocular harness? How do you you carry your AR on horseback? For me a bolt gun in a Kifaru Gunbearer is the absolute bees knees when it comes to carrying a rifle comfortably over days and distance. I think a lot of this has to do with hunting style. That said, I'm gonna try to put my scoped AR in my Gunbearer today just to see how it fits. |
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