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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:14:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:15:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:15:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Once again, I will reiterate, that the cop shooting was not the same as the person giving the commands. The supervisor was the person giving the commands.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:16:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's also the fact those silky shorts couldn't hide a gun, as they wouldn't support the weight of a gun. Also, even though there may have been another "gunman" in the room, the cop had plenty of cover, so instead of dicking around having the guy cross his legs and then crawl forward with his legs crossed (WTF?) he could have simply gone to the proned-out guy and cuffed him while being covered by the other cop(s). There is zero excuse for shooting the guy. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:18:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The officer only had concealment, there is no safe cover especially when the call came in as a guy with a rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's also the fact those silky shorts couldn't hide a gun, as they wouldn't support the weight of a gun. Also, even though there may have been another "gunman" in the room, the cop had plenty of cover, so instead of dicking around having the guy cross his legs and then crawl forward with his legs crossed (WTF?) he could have simply gone to the proned-out guy and cuffed him while being covered by the other cop(s). There is zero excuse for shooting the guy. 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:18:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a matter of fact, nearly everyone we deal with do not speak English. A lot of hand signals are used. That, and you should hear how the terps yell at them. Using a serious, command voice, which some seam to think is ridiculous or unwarranted, is in fact a valid technique for gaining and maintaining control of suspects, even if they don’t speak English; they can often tell from the inflection/tone of your voice whether they’re doing it right or not. “Would you please, pretty please put down any weapons that you have and swear, I mean pinky swear not to shoot me when I approach you?” May work on some; a determined bad guy would probably blow you off if not away. Again, for those questioning the officer’s tone, let’s see them use the “snowflake” method above when responding to three possible active shooters, only two of which are visible. Better yet, how many of our resident cop-hating internet tough guys would be any less harsh if three drunk guys with weapons ended up on or in their property? They probably wouldn’t even try to talk them down but would shoot first. Of course they’ll claim the circumstances are totally different, but in reality they aren’t. 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:18:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait. That was the supervisor giving those commands? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. That was the supervisor giving those commands? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:21:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, it was another officer, not Brailsford. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. That was the supervisor giving those commands? I think that changes things. 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:22:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL @ the entire concept of asking an impaired person if they're impaired, and using that answer to justify anything. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:23:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The officer only had concealment, there is no safe cover especially when the call came in as a guy with a rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's also the fact those silky shorts couldn't hide a gun, as they wouldn't support the weight of a gun. Also, even though there may have been another "gunman" in the room, the cop had plenty of cover, so instead of dicking around having the guy cross his legs and then crawl forward with his legs crossed (WTF?) he could have simply gone to the proned-out guy and cuffed him while being covered by the other cop(s). There is zero excuse for shooting the guy. I meant "cover" by other officer(s) present. There was at least one other there to provide cover in case the third guy appeared while the guy was cuffed. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:23:46 PM EDT
[#11]
From the time he left the door they told him they were going to shoot him, they wanted to.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:25:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only rifles I saw were pointing at the suspect. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:25:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As posted earlier this was a ruled "good shoot " by a jury |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:26:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, I will reiterate, that the cop shooting was not the same as the person giving the commands. The supervisor was the person giving the commands. They both worked in unison to create a deadly game of Simon says. They transformed a simple situation where 2 unarmed suspects were proned out on a floor and compliant with: face down - legs crossed and hands behind their heads into a chaotic stressful scene of shouts - threats and near impossible to follow instructions thrown at the 2 unarmed suspects... all while under direct threat of being shot and killed multiple times. They protected and served their death warrant exactly like they choreographed it with their terrible police work |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:26:46 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh wow. I went back and watched the video again. I believe this is correct, another officer was giving those commands. I think that changes things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. That was the supervisor giving those commands? I think that changes things. 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:27:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dunno dude. I ain't a hidden badge, but if I got a "Man with a Gun" call, a non-complaint suspect, that I've warned numerous times not to do what hes doing, and then he reaches behind him as if to pull a weapon from his SOB or SS, I have a hard time saying I wouldn't pull the trigger on him too. The You're Fucked dust cover was a stupid ass decision, but isn't germane to whether the shooting is justifiable or not. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:28:17 PM EDT
[#17]
That was sickening to watch.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:28:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, I will reiterate, that the cop shooting was not the same as the person giving the commands. The supervisor was the person giving the commands. At one point in the video, Shaver puts his hands down and behind his back. Langley, who was in charge and the only one yelling out commands, quickly orders him to put them back in the air or else he would be shot, the video shows." Former Mesa police sergeant backs decision by officer now on trial in fatal shooting |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:29:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did we watch the same video? Because nothing I saw suggested compliance at all. I saw him flipping between compliance and non-compliance, tending more to non-compliance. Words are meaningless, Actions matter. When he reached around, that screams "gun" to me. All I know is that I'm following the Police's instructions exactly, especially when they have an AR15 pointed at me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I dunno dude. I ain't a hidden badge, but if I got a "Man with a Gun" call, a non-complaint suspect, that I've warned numerous times not to do what hes doing, and then he reaches behind him as if to pull a weapon from his SOB or SS, I have a hard time saying I wouldn't pull the trigger on him too. The You're Fucked dust cover was a stupid ass decision, but isn't germane to whether the shooting is justifiable or not. Cop's tactics were very poor in bringing the subject/threat up to him. He got off light with the manslaughter conviction. Because nothing I saw suggested compliance at all. I saw him flipping between compliance and non-compliance, tending more to non-compliance. Words are meaningless, Actions matter. When he reached around, that screams "gun" to me. All I know is that I'm following the Police's instructions exactly, especially when they have an AR15 pointed at me. Why not cuff them while they're flat on their faces ? wow... |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:30:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Sgt. Charles Langley was the one giving the commands, not Brailsford.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of this. Clean enough shoot, bad dust cover. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I dunno dude. I ain't a hidden badge, but if I got a "Man with a Gun" call, a non-complaint suspect, that I've warned numerous times not to do what hes doing, and then he reaches behind him as if to pull a weapon from his SOB or SS, I have a hard time saying I wouldn't pull the trigger on him too. The You're Fucked dust cover was a stupid ass decision, but isn't germane to whether the shooting is justifiable or not. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:30:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Cover me!" I meant "cover" by other officer(s) present. There was at least one other there to provide cover in case the third guy appeared while the guy was cuffed. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:33:44 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm pretty pro cop but those fuckers need to be locked up. Typical power trip losers
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:34:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is Mesa gonna burn down tonight? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:36:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But there could have been another gunman behind the door ready to light you up. No one would have known until after the room was cleared. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Only rifles I saw were pointing at the suspect. 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:37:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a good shoot. Period and a jury agrees. If the suspect was black everyone would be making fun of him and praising the cop for taking a dirt bag off the streets. No one here was there so stop armchair quarter backing it. If you have a problem, go join your local department as a full-time or reserve police officer. MAGA! |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:38:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nupe. If they were worried about another gunman, they would've gotten the 2 down the hallway. Not sprawl them out in front of the door, tell them multiple times they'll be killed, and then after killing one of them, proceed to stand directly in front of the hotel room door. http://rlv.zcache.com/close_your_eyes_laughing_emoji_classic_round_sticker-r93d6e3c9a6314d27bdece8ca40e36bf2_v9waf_8byvr_512.jpg 
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:38:51 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm just NOT going to read all nine pages of what I suspect is a back-n-forth between 'respect my authority' and... the rest of us.
I have two teenaged kids. Good kids. They hang with the right crowd. Get good grades. Not interested in booze or causing mischief. I'm seriously thinking about having them watch this video, letting them read some of the resident LEO comments of 'Good Shoot', and letting them know the guy who executed that kid is most likely gonna walk. You guys are gonna show my kids why they need to stay away from LEO. In uniform and out. Were there any resident LEO condemning this shoot in this thread ? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:39:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Operating in AFG or Iraq does not compare to some hotel in AZ. Apples and oranges. Telling someone you will kill them as soon as you confront them if they make one bad move doesn't set a good precedence and really makes the victim anxious. If they were IN my house, obviously force would be justified since them being in my house means they did not have good intentions. If they were out in my driveway, it would be a bad shoot. How would you handle the three reportedly armed drunks in your driveway? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:40:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Youre into emoji today https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/33/5f/d2335f4cca49f4edfe3fc7bf8be769d7.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nupe. If they were worried about another gunman, they would've gotten the 2 down the hallway. Not sprawl them out in front of the door, tell them multiple times they'll be killed, and then after killing one of them, proceed to stand directly in front of the hotel room door. http://rlv.zcache.com/close_your_eyes_laughing_emoji_classic_round_sticker-r93d6e3c9a6314d27bdece8ca40e36bf2_v9waf_8byvr_512.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d2/33/5f/d2335f4cca49f4edfe3fc7bf8be769d7.jpg |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:40:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
17:04 is tough to watch It's like the dude knows with the commands he gave that's its impossible to do and the little shrug he gives it's like he knows he's gonna get shot Knowing he was going to die, he should have just yelled "Leroy Jenkin's" prior to being ventilated. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:40:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is correct, and it blows 1/2 of the arguments in the thread out of the water, but ARFCOM doesn’t care about that: all of the cops involved acted as a team and they all went in there hoping for the chance to kill someone. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:43:23 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nupe. If they were worried about another gunman, they would've gotten the 2 down the hallway. Not sprawl them out in front of the door, tell them multiple times they'll be killed, and then after killing one of them, proceed to stand directly in front of the hotel room door. http://rlv.zcache.com/close_your_eyes_laughing_emoji_classic_round_sticker-r93d6e3c9a6314d27bdece8ca40e36bf2_v9waf_8byvr_512.jpg |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:47:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Fuck that piece of shit that was giving commands, he was the one that should’ve stood trial for murder.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:49:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh wow. I went back and watched the video again. I believe this is correct, another officer was giving those commands. I think that changes things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that a lot of people aren't seeing what happened in this. There are two cops involved. The supervisor who yelling out the commands and the cover officer, who shot. The shooter is the one who stood trial. A lot of the outrage seems directed at the person yelling commands, but he is not the one on trial. That was the supervisor giving those commands? I think that changes things. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:50:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just NOT going to read all nine pages of what I suspect is a back-n-forth between 'respect my authority' and... the rest of us. I have two teenaged kids. Good kids. They hang with the right crowd. Get good grades. Not interested in booze or You guys are gonna show my kids why they need to stay away from LEO. In uniform and out. Were there any resident LEO condemning this shoot in this thread ? It will be very interesting if this LE trend continues. There are dozens of videos you could show to them. From planting evidence to illegal roadside cavity searches to all the unarmed people they shoot each year. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:51:52 PM EDT
[#37]
I want to support cops and all but it seems that this was poorly managed.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:52:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK (and as I suspected/started), inside you shoot first and figure out what’s going on later. Unfortunately in this case, it was your drunk neighbors, unarmed, who accidentally stumbled into your living room. Good shoot? How would you handle the three reportedly armed drunks in your driveway? If there were known armed drunks in my driveway, I would sit inside with my rifle and call the police who will then probably kill them. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:53:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm just NOT going to read all nine pages of what I suspect is a back-n-forth between 'respect my authority' and... the rest of us. I have two teenaged kids. Good kids. They hang with the right crowd. Get good grades. Not interested in booze or causing mischief. I'm seriously thinking about having them watch this video, letting them read some of the resident LEO comments of 'Good Shoot', and letting them know the guy who executed that kid is most likely gonna walk. You guys are gonna show my kids why they need to stay away from LEO. In uniform and out. Were there any resident LEO condemning this shoot in this thread ? |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:54:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, you're 100% OK with what the police did here, Mr. Killer? It’s easy to make perfect decisions when one already knows the outcome. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:55:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Cops respond to a call man pointing rifle outside hotel window. Las Vegas style.
The commands given by the cop were complex. Based on the cops moving past him to the hotel room after he was down, it looked like the cops wanted him further down the hall away from the hotel room door being cautious about a possible ambush, a sound tactic. This guy was drunk. And the commands were not simple. The cops wanted him out of the line of fire from the hotel room ( my assumption) and then the guy looked like he started to sit up and was grabbing for something on his right 4/5 oclock. I understand why it happened. The crux is cops were called to a man pointing a rifle out a hotel window. He was drunk and unable to follow commands and those commands were complex and disjointed. When guy stopped crawling, rose off his hands and reached behind his back, it ended. It could have been avoided maybe if: Common people could tell the difference between a pellet rifle and a real rifle Guy didnt point pellet rifle out the window like an idiot Cop gave better more concise and logical commands easier to follow Guy was not drunk and could follow commands Guy did not reach behind his back with his right hand with cops pointing rifles at him. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:59:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Seems like he wanted to shoot someone & then made sure he got his wish.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 1:59:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Cop had to get it on.
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:02:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Officers had been called to the hotel after a report that a man was pointing a gun out of a window. Two pellet guns were found in Shaver’s room
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:02:36 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thought for sure he'd be found guilty. Dat ejection port doe |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:04:46 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From your comments here and your username i bet you have to get it on. When there's is no need at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It is correct, and it blows 1/2 of the arguments in the thread out of the water, but ARFCOM doesn’t care about that: all of the cops involved acted as a team and they all went in there hoping for the chance to kill someone. One must always be ready to “get it on”, and do so when the situation dictates. Please don’t hold a call sign (username) from 20 years ago against me. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:06:45 PM EDT
[#47]
That "cop" was on a power trip. Shaver was compliant. The cop's orders were retarded and confusing, like he was playing a game. The cop never saw a gun and had zero reason to shoot.
Murder. That verdict is fucking bullshit. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:07:05 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Officers had been called to the hotel after a report that a man was pointing a gun out of a window. Two pellet guns were found in Shaver’s room |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:07:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. Bad shoot all around. |
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Posted: 12/8/2017 2:08:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well if they were my neighbors I would probably know them and not shoot? If there were known armed drunks in my driveway, I would sit inside with my rifle and call the police who will then probably kill them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: OK (and as I suspected/started), inside you shoot first and figure out what’s going on later. Unfortunately in this case, it was your drunk neighbors, unarmed, who accidentally stumbled into your living room. Good shoot? How would you handle the three reportedly armed drunks in your driveway? If there were known armed drunks in my driveway, I would sit inside with my rifle and call the police who will then probably kill them. Driveway decision sound good and I see what you did there. |
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