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Posted: 3/17/2018 2:44:24 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah something stinks here and their "request to be interviewed at home " while at the hospital was probably a loud fuck off we are going home and there was a meeting of assholes there (Grandpa and Officer Shouty ) I am not a TBL'r but my gut says this whole thing ain't completely in the lap of LE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who informed the police about the dead kid and why? I am not a TBL'r but my gut says this whole thing ain't completely in the lap of LE |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 2:48:34 AM EST
[#2]
If one of my children passed away from natural causes I wouldnt talk to police.
Unless the police are going to arrest mother nature or put God in handcuffs there is no point. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 2:53:02 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I'd just lost a child Im not sure I would react any differently to an intrusion by LE. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 2:56:35 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: According to the article they wanted to be interviewed in their home. Then when officers arrived they (grandfather) yelled at police and slammed door shut. What unfolded thereafter isn't all the surprising. Not saying it is right or wrong. Just predictable. Maybe I'm projecting, but I'd be so grief stricken if I lost any of my kids, it would take a lot to even want to continue breathing. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 3:03:42 AM EST
[#5]
The vast majority of cops aren't this dumb.
We ain't getting the full story. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 3:31:00 AM EST
[#6]
If I was a cop I would have showed up with flowers for Mom, a bottle of bourbon for dad, and a couple get out of jail free card from a monopoly game to hand out for the next speeding ?violation in town.
I would extend my condolences and ask them if I could come back in a few days to talk about it. That's just a horrible event. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 4:00:23 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The vast majority of cops aren't this dumb. We ain't getting the full story. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 4:26:06 AM EST
[#8]
I'm an easy going guy, that hardly gets worked up. If I tell someone to fuck off, then you can be damned sure there is a good reason behind it.
Grandfather had plenty of reason to tell the cops to fuck off. They kicked the fucking door in, how well do you think they handled the first introduction? I am 100% positive they went right to accusation mode, and grandfather had every right to tell them to fuck off. If they tried forcing entry to my home while my wife was grieving the loss of our child? Oh boy... |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 4:34:42 AM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 3/17/2018 6:32:34 AM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 3/17/2018 6:36:06 AM EST
[#11]
Quote History
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Posted: 3/17/2018 6:45:51 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I'd just lost a child Im not sure I would react any differently to an intrusion by LE. Plane went down in Gander, Newfoundland. No survivors. Sitting in a local bar with his brothers a few days later. Reporter comes in looking for " local" comments. We were the first ones he asked. Took 4 of us to get one of the brothers off the reporter. Timing and tact. Some lack it. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 6:48:29 AM EST
[#13]
I predict a large payday for the family.
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Posted: 3/17/2018 6:56:44 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL! "The cop was very ego driven". Yeah, I'm sure he wanted to be there. Although I have to agree with the chief, calling a citizen a dumbass[sic] is never a good idea. The family is right... there was no consent, no warrant or court order, no exigent circumstances and for fuck-certain there was no "hot pursuit". |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:16:54 AM EST
[#15]
Illegal entry, sounds like they broke into the home like thugs in any other home invasion, asshole cops are lucky they aren't dead. If anyone breaks into my home, they better say their prayers, especially if I was in the emotional state those poor people were in.
. Fuck those cops. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:19:46 AM EST
[#16]
I'll speculate about what happened. A 9 year officer isn't that dumb, but I've been wrong before. The original PD handling the case didn't give all the info or gave bad info to the other PD probably saying that family was hostile or uncooperative at hospital. Family then demands that they be able to go home without giving statement. The responding PDs info led them to believe the death was suspicious. Cop shows up at house and is promptly told to fuck off. Cop believes evidence is being destroyed, crime scene is getting messed with, and forces entry.
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:23:22 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope and I am about as far from a TBL'r as it gets However telling the cops to fuck off and shutting the door will normally have that response and any non retarded non shit bag person knows that , fighting with the cops after they come in is just gravy . They are probably lucky no one was killed. Suspect there is a long long list of LE interaction with this family prior to this . Yeah I agree it was playing with darwin fighting the cops but I can understand it. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:23:22 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your turn Florida For the children... |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:30:48 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your turn Florida |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:31:30 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll speculate about what happened. A 9 year officer isn't that dumb, but I've been wrong before. The original PD handling the case didn't give all the info or gave bad info to the other PD probably saying that family was hostile or uncooperative at hospital. Family then demands that they be able to go home without giving statement. The responding PDs info led them to believe the death was suspicious. Cop shows up at house and is promptly told to fuck off. Cop believes evidence is being destroyed, crime scene is getting messed with, and forces entry. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:32:59 AM EST
[#21]
the officer is the victim here
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:33:54 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Illegal entry, asshole cops are lucky they aren't dead. If anyone breaks into my home, they better say their prayers, especially if I was in the emotional state those poor people were in. . Fuck those cops. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:46:01 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WTF is going on in Utah? Cops losing their minds, governor wanting gun control, Romney getting ready to go to his coronation...  The Governor is on his last term. Good to see him go. It will probably help Romney that he called Trump a fraud and phony, now that Trump has publicly announced (alongside Feinstein) that he is a fraud and phony. It is funny that Trump endorsed Romney. But Romney is in a good position to be the only candidate who can say, "I have been pushing-back against Feinstein/Trump all along, the rest of these guys support Trump/Feinstein." While he is the only one endorsed by Trump. Until Trump grabbed his ankles for Feinstein/Schumer/Pelosi, (Trump funded Democrats) I would not have called it a coronation. Now? Now that Trump has proven that Romney was correct, and that Trump is a fraud and phony? Romney can simply say, "I was right all along, Trump lied." Yeah, with Trump moving back to the Democrat Party, and with Romney having a proven track record of showing that Trump was a fraud and phony, it probably will be a coronation... |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:50:47 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the officer is the victim here |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:51:16 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not impossible, extremely improbable. The simplest explanation is almost always the correct one. A LOT of police have ego problems. Hell I've had a grand total of 5 interactions with police, and 3 of those displayed ego or self-righteous sense of superiority. Gotta keep those commoners in line. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'll speculate about what happened. A 9 year officer isn't that dumb, but I've been wrong before. The original PD handling the case didn't give all the info or gave bad info to the other PD probably saying that family was hostile or uncooperative at hospital. Family then demands that they be able to go home without giving statement. The responding PDs info led them to believe the death was suspicious. Cop shows up at house and is promptly told to fuck off. Cop believes evidence is being destroyed, crime scene is getting messed with, and forces entry. The same sort of failure in communication was the root cause of the blood draw nurse debacle. There's a reason why teletype / text requests from another agency are best checked via phone contact first, before waltzing into a situation. I don't like to do anything beyond the most basic of assists for another agency without first getting the story first hand. Had a request once to "go make contact with so and so at this house". No other deets. I knew the house was shady, so I called over. "Oh, dude just shot at his family, and we have three attempted murder warrants in hand, can you go arrest him for us?" Motherfuckers... This is why you do your research first. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 7:52:24 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How good is Utah's qualified immunity statutes? The laws favor the officer. The taxpayer will be paying, not the officer. There was a recent case in Utah where an officer blamed a Subway Restaurant of poisoning his food. Nearly put the small franchise out of business. The financial cost to the owners was tremendous. Turns out he had a food allergy or something. But he called on the radio he had been poisoned, and multiple cops showed up to the small franchise, and proned everyone out, arrested the workers. The Dept. made a statement on the news that the restaurant had poisoned an officer. No one would get a sandwich there. No one would go there. Then it was discovered that the officer had a food allergy or something. That was it. The owners sued. Got nothing. They were financially destroyed because an officer freaked out on the radio. I am not sure if that was West Valley, but I wouldn't put it past WV. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:03:02 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These two excerpts do not agree with each other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
On Feb. 24, Kameron Evans died at St. Mark's Hospital The chief said the officers who went to the family's house were there for an unattended death investigation. They were not aware at that point that the death was not considered to be suspicious, she said. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:04:19 AM EST
[#28]
WTF
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:07:16 AM EST
[#29]
A cop reported to be "ego-driven". It seems like I have heard that somewhere before...??
This department is going to get their asses sued off. The violations of rights are only the beginning, the demeanour of the officers under the circumstances is positively disgusting. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:09:00 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By a quick Google search they will have to pay the parents way more than the nurse they arrested for not ruining her career for a illegal blood sample in roughly the same area. Would think after that shit show, they'd slow down and think a bit. But I guess not! 500k of taxpayers money isn't good enough of a lesson. Seriously being the Heart of the Mormon Homeland, I would expect better of the police in such a area. 8( West Valley City PD is one of the few (maybe the only) PD in the Salt Lake valley that is not part of the unified police. They are their own special department. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:13:01 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck does the officer justify that? |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:17:07 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is rock-solid. Just like just about everywhere else. The laws favor the officer. The taxpayer will be paying, not the officer. There was a recent case in Utah where an officer blamed a Subway Restaurant of poisoning his food. Nearly put the small franchise out of business. The financial cost to the owners was tremendous. Turns out he had a food allergy or something. But he called on the radio he had been poisoned, and multiple cops showed up to the small franchise, and proned everyone out, arrested the workers. The Dept. made a statement on the news that the restaurant had poisoned an officer. No one would get a sandwich there. No one would go there. Then it was discovered that the officer had a food allergy or something. That was it. The owners sued. Got nothing. They were financially destroyed because an officer freaked out on the radio. I am not sure if that was West Valley, but I wouldn't put it past WV. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:23:35 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The vast majority of cops aren't this dumb. We ain't getting the full story. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:26:46 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll speculate about what happened. A 9 year officer isn't that dumb, but I've been wrong before. The original PD handling the case didn't give all the info or gave bad info to the other PD probably saying that family was hostile or uncooperative at hospital. Family then demands that they be able to go home without giving statement. The responding PDs info led them to believe the death was suspicious. Cop shows up at house and is promptly told to fuck off. Cop believes evidence is being destroyed, crime scene is getting messed with, and forces entry. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:29:06 AM EST
[#35]
The cops were clearly the fucktards in this case.
Never open the door for LE unless they have a warrant seems like the prudent approach these days. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:44:34 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL! "The cop was very ego driven". Yeah, I'm sure he wanted to be there. Although I have to agree with the chief, calling a citizen a dumbass is never a good idea. #1 Parents agreed to be questioned at there home at some later point. 5th amendment = didn't have to answer at all, but they agreed to. Consent can be revoked at any time. #2 Cop didn't have warrant to enter. No matter how insulting the grandfather was, don't see how exigent circumstances are created to justify warrantless entry. Also, pretty sure there's been enough case law on warrantless entry of home that qualified immunity is out. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:48:09 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alternate theory: This particular cop *is* that dumb and that is the story. 
Highly likely this guy could be one of those individuals. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:50:09 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The cops were clearly the fucktards in this case. Never open the door for LE unless they have a warrant seems like the prudent approach these days. The rule around my home is - "We don't open the door for the police, we don't talk to the police" followed with "if they have a warrant, they'll kick the door down anyways, see previous rule" |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:50:33 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope and I am about as far from a TBL'r as it gets However telling the cops to fuck off and shutting the door will normally have that response and any non retarded non shit bag person knows that , fighting with the cops after they come in is just gravy . They are probably lucky no one was killed. Suspect there is a long long list of LE interaction with this family prior to this . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So that's the green light to kick the door open and head on in? However telling the cops to fuck off and shutting the door will normally have that response and any non retarded non shit bag person knows that , fighting with the cops after they come in is just gravy . They are probably lucky no one was killed. Suspect there is a long long list of LE interaction with this family prior to this . However, telling the cops to fuck off and shutting the door should not result in cops without warrant kicking down the door. (barring true exigent circumstances existing...such as seen drugs sitting on the table before door is shut) The crime of illegal entry, if done by government agencies, that results in the death of any resident of the home, should be given the statutory penalty of hanged by the neck until dead with the corpse displayed at that government agency as a reminder. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:52:18 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who informed the police about the dead kid and why? |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 8:56:18 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah something stinks here and their "request to be interviewed at home " while at the hospital was probably a loud fuck off we are going home and there was a meeting of assholes there (Grandpa and Officer Shouty ) I am not a TBL'r but my gut says this whole thing ain't completely in the lap of LE Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who informed the police about the dead kid and why? I am not a TBL'r but my gut says this whole thing ain't completely in the lap of LE The worst killer in history gets a trial, a lawyer, and can't be compelled to testify against himself. Asshole behavior doesn't come close to being an excuse to violate the Bill of Rights. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:01:17 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These two excerpts do not agree with each other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
On Feb. 24, Kameron Evans died at St. Mark's Hospital The chief said the officers who went to the family's house were there for an unattended death investigation. They were not aware at that point that the death was not considered to be suspicious, she said. What it sounds like is that there was a communications breakdown, which does happen because we are all human. Problem is, every cop's training should engrain in them 'I have to follow the law too' which includes 'I can't shoot people just because they annoy me' and 'I don't get to arrest people for swearing at me' and 'the things that allow me to kick a door down without a warrant are so small I better check very high up the chain of command before doing it if (officer's) life isn't in immediate serious danger' |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:02:34 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
family is gonna get paid 
Wet dream I know |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:03:37 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Statistically, 10% of police officers will have an IQ of 85 or lower http://social-quotient.info/sq.4mg.com/IQ-jobs.gif Highly likely this guy could be one of those individuals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Alternate theory: This particular cop *is* that dumb and that is the story. http://social-quotient.info/sq.4mg.com/IQ-jobs.gif Highly likely this guy could be one of those individuals. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:06:50 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually they do. Abuse crying baby now to stop it from crying, take to hospital when it is in critical condition (fails to respond to anything) doctors try and save baby but fail. What it sounds like is that there was a communications breakdown, which does happen because we are all human. Problem is, every cop's training should engrain in them 'I have to follow the law too' which includes 'I can't shoot people just because they annoy me' and 'I don't get to arrest people for swearing at me' and 'the things that allow me to kick a door down without a warrant are so small I better check very high up the chain of command before doing it if (officer's) life isn't in immediate serious danger' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On Feb. 24, Kameron Evans died at St. Mark's Hospital The chief said the officers who went to the family's house were there for an unattended death investigation. They were not aware at that point that the death was not considered to be suspicious, she said. What it sounds like is that there was a communications breakdown, which does happen because we are all human. Problem is, every cop's training should engrain in them 'I have to follow the law too' which includes 'I can't shoot people just because they annoy me' and 'I don't get to arrest people for swearing at me' and 'the things that allow me to kick a door down without a warrant are so small I better check very high up the chain of command before doing it if (officer's) life isn't in immediate serious danger' And how does an officer not know that you don't kick in a door without a warrant and no exigent circumstances after 9 years on the job? How in the world does training address that sort of retardation? |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:09:15 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This debacle is an egregious abuse of power and I hope that department does the right thing. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:09:20 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The vast majority of cops aren't this dumb. We ain't getting the full story. I give you free reign to come up with any details you want to suggest might have happened to justify the undisputed parts of this event. I suggested one (seeing piles of drugs on the kitchen table in the 3 seconds before Grandpa slammed the door) but even that one was unlikely to have end result of no one being charged. I eagerly await your response. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:11:32 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ehhh. It seems kinda likely to me, given the statements quoted earlier about an unattended death investigation. The same sort of failure in communication was the root cause of the blood draw nurse debacle. There's a reason why teletype / text requests from another agency are best checked via phone contact first, before waltzing into a situation. I don't like to do anything beyond the most basic of assists for another agency without first getting the story first hand. Had a request once to "go make contact with so and so at this house". No other deets. I knew the house was shady, so I called over. "Oh, dude just shot at his family, and we have three attempted murder warrants in hand, can you go arrest him for us?" Motherfuckers... This is why you do your research first. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll speculate about what happened. A 9 year officer isn't that dumb, but I've been wrong before. The original PD handling the case didn't give all the info or gave bad info to the other PD probably saying that family was hostile or uncooperative at hospital. Family then demands that they be able to go home without giving statement. The responding PDs info led them to believe the death was suspicious. Cop shows up at house and is promptly told to fuck off. Cop believes evidence is being destroyed, crime scene is getting messed with, and forces entry. The same sort of failure in communication was the root cause of the blood draw nurse debacle. There's a reason why teletype / text requests from another agency are best checked via phone contact first, before waltzing into a situation. I don't like to do anything beyond the most basic of assists for another agency without first getting the story first hand. Had a request once to "go make contact with so and so at this house". No other deets. I knew the house was shady, so I called over. "Oh, dude just shot at his family, and we have three attempted murder warrants in hand, can you go arrest him for us?" Motherfuckers... This is why you do your research first. Sheesh those A holes could have got you a park named after you. |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:20:12 AM EST
[#49]
Quoted:
story On Feb. 24, Kameron Evans died at St. Mark's Hospital, apparently due to complications from RSV, Sykes said. The death was not considered suspicious and there was never any indication the death was the result of anything but an unfortunate tragedy, according to the family. However, per police protocol, the family was told that officers needed to ask them questions to make sure no foul play was involved. The family asked if they could be questioned at home, Sykes said. Because their home is in West Valley City, Unified police called West Valley officers to stop by their house. "No warrant. No crime had been committed. There was no suspicion that a crime had been committed. Right away, (Christensen) took offense to that. You can visibly see this officer was upset. He couldn’t really handle the situation,” Ricardo Estrada, Jr. said. "Again, this cop is not showing any kind of restraint. No type of de-escalation at all. No respect to the situation. "It felt very ego driven," he continued. "That cop never said, ‘Calm down. Here’s why I’m here.’ It was instantly, ‘Everyone is getting arrested.'” The family released videos Friday taken from two cellphones and their home surveillance video. The video from the porch shows Christensen kicking open the door. The cellphones show a chaotic situation inside the house. Maryssa Estrada can be heard screaming at the officers, "I just lost my son!" and "He died in my arms!" Evans and others can be heard angrily telling officers, "You had no right to come in. You had no probable cause, nothing," and later, "This is our house! You don’t tell us what to do in our house!" As the grandfather is being placed in handcuffs, family members ask Christensen, "You feel good about yourself doing that?" The officer is also heard confronting family members, at one point stating, "You dumbass, you're going to jail." Christensen eventually appears to have had enough taunting in the video and confronts Evans. "Turn around and put your hands behind your back, do it now!" Christensen orders. "I did nothing to you," Evans replies. A short time later, the two tumbled down the stairs. When asked about her opinion of the video, Jacobs only said, "It is under review." Later, however, the chief commented, "It is my opinion that calling a citizen a dumbass is never appropriate." |
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Posted: 3/17/2018 9:20:19 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are my questions... What crime did the family commit? What was the exigent circumstance to kick the door in? Was the family harboring a fleeing felon? Was there someone in the house in danger of grievous bodily harm or death? Was it immediately necessary to gain entry by force? Was there a warrant? The answers to those questions are most likely no. It was basically a knock and talk for a voluntary interview regarding the death of an infant that died in the hospital of a respiratory virus (RSV). This debacle is an egregious abuse of power and I hope that department does the right thing.  Never invite the man etc. |
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