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Posted: 5/24/2018 10:01:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A friend of mine, who used to be an engine mechanic in the USAF, (F-15 and F-16 engine shop) was in the back seat of an F-15 getting ready for his incentive flight awarded for excellent performance, along with one or more others in other F-15s about to get their own incentive rides, too, and one of them went stupid. That individual was instructed to operate the switch to close the canopy and instead operated the switch to JETTISON the canopy. NOBODY in that group got their incentive flight that day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When I was in the children's air patrol in the 80's, some of us rock stars won a check ride in a KC-130. Maybe some of them got a B-1 flight, and one played 'what does this wired, covered switch do'?  along with one or more others in other F-15s about to get their own incentive rides, too, and one of them went stupid. That individual was instructed to operate the switch to close the canopy and instead operated the switch to JETTISON the canopy. NOBODY in that group got their incentive flight that day. The number will be slightly smaller than the number of design engineers working on airplanes, except the crew station designers. If you want real disappoitment, ask the engineers if they can describe the basic sequence of seat operation. A deceased flying friend was the pilot that dead stocked a F-102 through clouds to a safe landing. Despite instruction to eject. I remembered reading the story when I was a kid. When I saw the citation on the wall at his house, I about fell over. RIP Charlie, you had an interesting life. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 10:13:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Maybe someone just wanted to let the smoke out?
Happy it was a good landing and the sexiest aircraft ever built will be good as new in no time. ?? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 10:38:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Survey people around you to find the number that knows the meaning of "jettison". The number will be slightly smaller than the number of design engineers working on airplanes, except the crew station designers. If you want real disappoitment, ask the engineers if they can describe the basic sequence of seat operation. A deceased flying friend was the pilot that dead stocked a F-102 through clouds to a safe landing. Despite instruction to eject. I remembered reading the story when I was a kid. When I saw the citation on the wall at his house, I about fell over. RIP Charlie, you had an interesting life. "JETT-IS-ON" Dyslexic, maybe? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 10:41:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup?
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup? ETA: Interesting, getting conflicting answers now. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:13:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Oh, not completely related, but the B-1 that landed gear up at Diego Garcia ~10 years ago, the crew blew the top hatch off after "landing". But that's because the normal egress is below the fuselage, and that was unusable since the aircraft was on her belly.
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:22:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 11:26:10 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 5/24/2018 12:01:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was asked on P2 and the answer is no. The parachute can't be detached from the seat by the crew. ETA: Interesting, getting conflicting answers now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup? ETA: Interesting, getting conflicting answers now. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 2:00:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes there are manual bail out procedures and a spare chute stowed in the cockpit. At one point in time there were 2 additional crew positions (instructors) that did not have ejection seats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup? ETA- @Cardphan are they BA-22 parachutes? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 2:18:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is the chute attached to the seat? I thought the seat detaches? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Could they not do a manual bail out as a backup? ETA: Interesting, getting conflicting answers now. a small extraction chute deploys out of the top of the container and sinks into the air stream allowing the main parachute to deploy out of the bottom of the container. There is a whole bunch of other stuff going on at the same time but that is a very rough of how the parachute works. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 2:30:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"JETT-IS-ON" Dyslexic, maybe? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Survey people around you to find the number that knows the meaning of "jettison". The number will be slightly smaller than the number of design engineers working on airplanes, except the crew station designers. If you want real disappoitment, ask the engineers if they can describe the basic sequence of seat operation. A deceased flying friend was the pilot that dead stocked a F-102 through clouds to a safe landing. Despite instruction to eject. I remembered reading the story when I was a kid. When I saw the citation on the wall at his house, I about fell over. RIP Charlie, you had an interesting life.
Kharn |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 2:35:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Glad everyone is safe.
The only IFE I ever witnessed involving a B-1, was the wings were stuck swept back. Took the whole runway to slow that plane down. The FD call over the radio warning about hot brakes was kind of a "no shit" moment.
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Posted: 5/24/2018 2:45:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I stand corrected. I have never worked the B-1 but I am somewhat familiar with the system ETA- @Cardphan are they BA-22 parachutes?
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Posted: 5/24/2018 3:15:32 PM EDT
[#15]
That blown hatch seems too far back to belong to the pilot. Could it have been over one of the EWO's?
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:03:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That blown hatch seems too far back to belong to the pilot. Could it have been over one of the EWO's? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:10:13 PM EDT
[#17]
The crewman's whose seat didn't eject, couldn't he have just pulled himself up through the open area and jump off the plane if the rest of the crew bailed out?
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:25:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The original B-1A had an ejection capsule like the F-111. Carter and Congress cancelled the B-1A, which was revived in the Reagan admin with the B-1B. The remaining B-1A prototype aircraft were used for the test program, and during wing sweep transition at low altitude, there was something done incorrectly with fuel management and aircraft C of G, so too much fuel weight went aft when it should have been pumped to the center of the bird. It pitched up and stalled, so they ejected in the capsule. Chief Rockwell International test pilot, Doug Benefield, died upon touchdown of the capsule. I remember it well, as my dad was on the B-1B CTF at Edwards then. https://cdn10.picryl.com/photo/1982/09/13/doug-benefield-a-rockwell-test-pilot-and-a-member-of-the-b-1-bomber-aircraft-34ca7b-1024.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KAeRRSMVPJg/VHSKyzBqY-I/AAAAAAAAGb8/DqkvGZW3mRA/s1600/Lancer.jpg  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3yaB6QJReo |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:29:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The crewman's whose seat didn't eject, couldn't he have just pulled himself up through the open area and jump off the plane if the rest of the crew bailed out? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:42:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Florida man could. But no one else could. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The crewman's whose seat didn't eject, couldn't he have just pulled himself up through the open area and jump off the plane if the rest of the crew bailed out? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 4:59:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The crewman's whose seat didn't eject, couldn't he have just pulled himself up through the open area and jump off the plane if the rest of the crew bailed out? 
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Posted: 5/24/2018 5:01:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bit tricky to get out the top or the bottom of that thing w/o getting hit by an engine nacelle or a tail surface. I don't expect they have access to the bomb bay from the crew compartment, that was always the easy way out of older bombers. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 5:15:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy? I’ve made that climb on the ground in a B17. I can’t imagine doing that in a tumbling aircraft. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Bit tricky to get out the top or the bottom of that thing w/o getting hit by an engine nacelle or a tail surface. I don't expect they have access to the bomb bay from the crew compartment, that was always the easy way out of older bombers. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 6:00:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would have strutted off that flighline like the king of the world with a smirk on my face then promptly found the closest bathroom to throw up in and pass out. 35 feet is lower than my fucking roof. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 6:07:07 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm just here for the Bone Porn.
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Posted: 5/24/2018 6:21:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The crewman's whose seat didn't eject, couldn't he have just pulled himself up through the open area and jump off the plane if the rest of the crew bailed out? If it was decided he would chance it and go for a manual egress it would be done from the crew entry not from the top hatch. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:11:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know when you light that giant mortar firework on the fourth and nothing happens... then you debate for the next 20 minutes about picking it up. We'll by initiating the eject sequence that crewmember basically did the same thing. His best bet was to stay in the seat and strapped in just in case the seat decided to light off later. Being half out of the seat would be a horrible positio to be in if thing went pyrotechnic. Hell even after landing I think I'd stay in the seat until egress told me the seat was for sure disarmed.
If it was decided he would chance it and go for a manual egress it would be done from the crew entry not from the top hatch. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it is possible to drop from the bottom crew entry door? I take it his buddy didn't particularly want to try to "safe" the malfunctioning seat in the air, w/ 150+ mph winds whipping through the cabin and an open hatch overhead? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:25:03 PM EDT
[#29]
I have no experience with ejection seats. In my experience with firearms, model rockets, and non-professional pyro...if it hasn't gone in 10 seconds, it's not going to go.
Is it like that with ejection seat motors? |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:26:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe the hatch was the emergency? Jay |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:36:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no experience with ejection seats. In my experience with firearms, model rockets, and non-professional pyro...if it hasn't gone in 10 seconds, it's not going to go. Is it like that with ejection seat motors? 
To the question about bailing out, yes that is done through the normal crew entry. |
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Posted: 5/24/2018 7:37:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I have only a basic understanding of ejection seats, I would presume that the standard mechanical safing of the seat does not stop a partially started sequence if it decided to recover from a hang fire, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So it is possible to drop from the bottom crew entry door? I take it his buddy didn't particularly want to try to "safe" the malfunctioning seat in the air, w/ 150+ mph winds whipping through the cabin and an open hatch overhead? I am not familiar with safeing the system on a B-1 after partial activation, but I would speculate its either releasing the QD's on the gas hoses or cutting the gas hoses and continuing to disconnect gas hoses/SMDC (shielded mild det cord) until the entire system is safe. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 4:03:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would be a question for @egress81 if he makes it back in here, I know my crew chief ass would not even breath hard until I was told that seat was safe by a qualified egress tech. Trying to remember back to training from 10 years ago I think there is a few hours (4 maybe) that the seat remains capable after being initiated. Battery life maybe? Would be a common answer to any aircraft with an ACES II seat. Anyone else been to maintain refresher in the past decade?
To the question about bailing out, yes that is done through the normal crew entry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have no experience with ejection seats. In my experience with firearms, model rockets, and non-professional pyro...if it hasn't gone in 10 seconds, it's not going to go. Is it like that with ejection seat motors?
To the question about bailing out, yes that is done through the normal crew entry. The thermal battery time is 4 hours, however that is only activated upon the rocket catapult firing and ejecting the seat out. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 5:40:22 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Old B1 crew chief here so here's my 2 cents and a couple corrections.
There's a handle to blow just the hatch, or if you pull the seat handle, it blows both hatch and seat follows quickly thereafter. The toilet is located between the pilot and left side back seater. Can't remember if that's dso or oso. Across from the galley. It's fixed and even has a curtain for privacy. If the seat failed, and/or you were out of the seat when it left the aircraft after you, there were 2 normal parachutes stowed under the galley and one could perform a bottom bail out through the crew entry hatch As the hatch left the aircraft explosively, it will likely need a one time flight to depot to repair, or one time to the boneyard. The back hatches are much better to pop than the front since the back hatches can be manually opened. Think that covers everything I saw |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was stationed at Barksdale AFB back in the 80's. A B52 crew member woke up during a long mission with no body in the cabin. He thought that he had slept thru the emergency, and, thinking everyone had ejected he ejected too. Only thing was no one had ejected. Everyone was on the top deck. All the crew that were on the top deck started freaking out when they depressurized. They made an emergency landing at Barksdale AFB. No one was hurt and they picked up the crewman that had ejected. Needless to say he was ribbed mercilessly while he was with the Wing. Oh, Blowing one of the aft hatches gives you an escape route if the aircraft drops on its nose during an emergency landing. This became standard boldface when a number of incidents occurred where the aircraft sheared off the nose gear and dropped onto the runway. This would twist the fuselage and jam the upper hatches. Manual bailout in a Buff was iffy. Doing it in a Bone? |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:22:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Think about the OSO and what he went through for the rest of the flight, knowing at any time that he could be ejected from the bird.
I think that's why the guy looks like he does sitting on the ground in the pic. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:25:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Blowing one of the aft hatches gives you an escape route if the aircraft drops on its nose during an emergency landing. This became standard boldface when a number of incidents occurred where the aircraft sheared off the nose gear and dropped onto the runway. This would twist the fuselage and jam the upper hatches. I edited my post because the article referenced here https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Air-Force-B-1-Lancer-blew-escape-hatch-in-emergency-landing-but-its-seat-did-not-eject/5-2112359/?page=1#i72538439 seems to rule out that scenario. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:30:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they could've just been following the current emergency landing procedure (for engine fire), and this have absolutely nothing to do with an ejection seat failure? |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 6:49:26 PM EDT
[#40]
My question is what made this incident an immediate eject event? The plane flew on for 15 minutes and was landed in one piece (more or less) with no injury to the crew.
Somebody gonna get raped over the seat failing to eject. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My question is what made this incident an immediate eject event? The plane flew on for 15 minutes and was landed in one piece (more or less) with no injury to the crew. Somebody gonna get raped over the seat failing to eject. |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 7:30:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Old B1 crew chief here so here's my 2 cents and a couple corrections. There's a handle to blow just the hatch, or if you pull the seat handle, it blows both hatch and seat follows quickly thereafter. The toilet is located between the pilot and left side back seater. Can't remember if that's dso or oso. Across from the galley. It's fixed and even has a curtain for privacy. If the seat failed, and/or you were out of the seat when it left the aircraft after you, there were 2 normal parachutes stowed under the galley and one could perform a bottom bail out through the crew entry hatch As the hatch left the aircraft explosively, it will likely need a one time flight to depot to repair, or one time to the boneyard. The back hatches are much better to pop than the front since the back hatches can be manually opened. Think that covers everything I saw |
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Posted: 5/25/2018 10:11:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*snip Manual bailout in a Buff was iffy. Doing it in a Bone?
@Cardphan1: Up at Ellsworth, 98 to 02 with the 77BS, prior to the great 28th merge. Tail 86097 |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 12:06:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Trying to find a better article but this is the best one I could find without official channels. B-1 crash in CO with 6 crew aboard...1987 That means 2 needed to use the floor emergency exit. Also one seat malfunctioned. 3 survived and 3 didn't make it.
B-1 crash 1987 |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 8:01:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So when you pull the handle for bottom bailout on a bone, the windbreak in front of the front Bomb bay is supposed to extend, creating a small pocket of relatively stable air prior to exiting the aircraft. Still, I agree that it's dicey but if your seat leaves without you
@Cardphan1: Up at Ellsworth, 98 to 02 with the 77BS, prior to the great 28th merge. Tail 86097 |
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Posted: 5/26/2018 11:10:13 PM EDT
[#46]
I've got nothing of substance to add, except that the bone is a sexy bitch, for a big airplane.
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Posted: 5/26/2018 11:18:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From the sound of it, it’ll be there for a while. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever occurred they are still dealing with as it is still sitting in Midland and has not returned to Dyess. |
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Posted: 5/27/2018 12:39:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uncontrolled fire. Controlled ejection before explosion or loss of control is called for. Fires in the wing are bad juju. Look at the Concorde crash in Paris - from fire to crash in a very short time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My question is what made this incident an immediate eject event? The plane flew on for 15 minutes and was landed in one piece (more or less) with no injury to the crew. Somebody gonna get raped over the seat failing to eject. |
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Posted: 6/8/2018 12:39:53 PM EDT
[#49]
To update this story..............................
Looks like all B1's are now on a Safety Stand-Down as of yesterday due to this incident. http://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/news/main-news/all-b-1b-lancers-ordered-to-stand-down-after-emergency-landing/1226471594 |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 6:04:55 PM EDT
[#50]
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