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Posted: 1/24/2019 11:12:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta be on the rim. I hope a light taper crimp will hold the bullets under recoil. https://www.google.com/amp/s/hatchfive.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/mk-vii-303-rounds/amp/ |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 11:23:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Pretty neat I suppose, this would make a good alternative to something like an old 336 in .35 Rem.
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Posted: 1/24/2019 11:32:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1:16 Twist on those. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@CMMG, what twist are the barrels you're using? |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 11:33:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our testing has been limited to only the 16" barrels at this time. Mags, barrels, upper groups and rifles will be released at the same time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Any data on short barrel performance. Also will you be selling the barrels and mags separate by March/April? Gas system and thread pitch? Oh and considering use of 16" Winchester has 20" load data. Is this going to be very dependant on barrel length or were your results close to theirs? |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 12:41:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our testing has been limited to only the 16" barrels at this time. Mags, barrels, upper groups and rifles will be released at the same time. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:02:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our testing has been limited to only the 16" barrels at this time. Mags, barrels, upper groups and rifles will be released at the same time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Any data on short barrel performance. Also will you be selling the barrels and mags separate by March/April? I won't ask for a response to this because I understand PR and corporate communications have certain complications. That said... If you are testing this cartridge in shorter barrels, but you're tactfully lying to us to keep it under wraps, we understand. If you really aren't testing this in shorter barrels, you're doing it wrong. 
I see you have "Banshee" models in .308 and .458SOCOM, so I'm going to assume you're tactfully lying to us. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:23:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't remember where I saw it but I read this headspaces on the case mouth. The crimp is a concern. If the tool could be made cost effectively a crimp in the neck like on military .303 British would work. https://www.google.com/amp/s/hatchfive.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/mk-vii-303-rounds/amp/ |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:30:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I meant case mouth Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can't remember where I saw it but I read this headspaces on the case mouth. The crimp is a concern. If the tool could be made cost effectively a crimp in the neck like on military .303 British would work. https://www.google.com/amp/s/hatchfive.wordpress.com/2017/09/20/mk-vii-303-rounds/amp/ |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:38:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Didn't see this posted so far in this thread:
Winchester has a product page with 265-grain Super Suppressed subsonic loads. https://winchester.com/350-Legend 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:50:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fair enough. Gas system and thread pitch? Oh and considering use of 16" Winchester has 20" load data. Is this going to be very dependant on barrel length or were your results close to theirs? Our testing with the 16" was within 100fps or less than the numbers they are reporting. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:50:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These will be cataloged under your Reformation line? |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 1:54:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That will not stabilize the 265 grain subsonics. Need a 1:10 twist or so. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 2:07:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This will have a carbine gas system and the 1/2-28 (9mm). Our testing with the 16" was within 100fps or less than the numbers they are reporting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Fair enough. Gas system and thread pitch? Oh and considering use of 16" Winchester has 20" load data. Is this going to be very dependant on barrel length or were your results close to theirs? Our testing with the 16" was within 100fps or less than the numbers they are reporting. Thanks 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 2:18:04 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't see this posted so far in this thread: Winchester has a product page with 265-grain Super Suppressed subsonic loads. https://winchester.com/350-Legend https://winchester.com/LandingPage/images/super-surpressed/front-view.jpg 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 5:37:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Didn't see this posted so far in this thread: Winchester has a product page with 265-grain Super Suppressed subsonic loads. https://winchester.com/350-Legend https://winchester.com/LandingPage/images/super-surpressed/front-view.jpg
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Posted: 1/24/2019 5:43:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find this cross section of the subsonic 265gr cartridge amusing. https://wdm2.blob.core.windows.net/winchester/features/feature-350-legend---super-suppressed-image.png 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 6:01:22 PM EDT
[#17]
This would probably be the only way I'd buy another Mini-14 should Ruger chamber them in the 350. A modern day M-1 Carbine heir with the bite to be a real short range defense carbine.
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Posted: 1/24/2019 6:06:16 PM EDT
[#18]
I’m trying to figure out what my go criteria is on this.
Things I think I would need to see first: -Reloading dies from RCBS or Hornady -A short barrel upper -Documented performance from short barrels -A factory load with good expansion and overall terminal ballistics at subsonic velocity -Quality mags of decent capacity If I get an upper, I’m probably going to end up with something manually cycled, too. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 6:18:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Looking good so far, at least from a hunting perspective.
My oldest will be 12 next year which is old enough to hunt here in Utah. He recently expressed interest in finishing up his AR lower that I bought him a couple years ago. I may just kill 2 birds with 1 stone and snag an upper in 350 Legend and a few mags. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 6:27:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What sucks is the 1.7" case length. I have a .357 AR Maximum. Similar but 1.6" case. Got excited that there might suddenly be factory ammo. I'm curious if they'll ever acknowledge the previous work put into this concept by Moleman and MDWS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 6:53:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would have been better if they adopted the .357AR Max and got it SAAMI approved, but Winchester probably wanted everything to be proprietary. I'm curious if they'll ever acknowledge the previous work put into this concept by Moleman and MDWS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What sucks is the 1.7" case length. I have a .357 AR Maximum. Similar but 1.6" case. Got excited that there might suddenly be factory ammo. I'm curious if they'll ever acknowledge the previous work put into this concept by Moleman and MDWS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 7:05:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m trying to figure out what my go criteria is on this. Things I think I would need to see first: -Reloading dies from RCBS or Hornady -A short barrel upper -Documented performance from short barrels -A factory load with good expansion and overall terminal ballistics at subsonic velocity -Quality mags of decent capacity If I get an upper, I’m probably going to end up with something manually cycled, too. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 7:21:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. I want to know if it has equal or better performance out of a 8" barrel before I would ditch .300blk for this. If it does, I would. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 7:25:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This would probably be the only way I'd buy another Mini-14 should Ruger chamber them in the 350. A modern day M-1 Carbine heir with the bite to be a real short range defense carbine. 
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Posted: 1/24/2019 10:40:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would have been better if they adopted the .357AR Max and got it SAAMI approved, but Winchester probably wanted everything to be proprietary. I'm curious if they'll ever acknowledge the previous work put into this concept by Moleman and MDWS. |
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Posted: 1/24/2019 11:53:42 PM EDT
[#26]
If someone snags a CMMG before the end of March and wants to test w/ a UniMag, PM me & I'll loan it you.
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:02:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This would probably be the only way I'd buy another Mini-14 should Ruger chamber them in the 350. A modern day M-1 Carbine heir with the bite to be a real short range defense carbine. 
My body and pocketbook are ready!!! |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:05:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Dumb question here fellas....
Would a .30 cal suppressor work for this round? If not-what size suppressor would be necessary? Bonus question-how does this compare to 300blk on ballistics? Thanks |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:15:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dumb question here fellas.... Would a .30 cal suppressor work for this round? If not-what size suppressor would be necessary? Bonus question-how does this compare to 300blk on ballistics? Thanks You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:19:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A .30 cal suppressor is not going to work. This cartridge shoots .357 projectiles. You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dumb question here fellas.... Would a .30 cal suppressor work for this round? If not-what size suppressor would be necessary? Bonus question-how does this compare to 300blk on ballistics? Thanks You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:26:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didn't see this posted so far in this thread: Winchester has a product page with 265-grain Super Suppressed subsonic loads. https://winchester.com/350-Legend https://winchester.com/LandingPage/images/super-surpressed/front-view.jpg |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 1:13:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A .30 cal suppressor is not going to work. This cartridge shoots .357 projectiles. You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dumb question here fellas.... Would a .30 cal suppressor work for this round? If not-what size suppressor would be necessary? Bonus question-how does this compare to 300blk on ballistics? Thanks You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 1:18:45 AM EDT
[#33]
I like the idea and potential
im interested |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 9:01:12 AM EDT
[#34]
is this proprietary or SAAMI approved?
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Posted: 1/25/2019 12:40:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A .30 cal suppressor is not going to work. This cartridge shoots .357 projectiles. You’re going to be looking at 9mm and .45 cans that can handle greater pressure levels than typical pistol loads. The .300blk will have better external (flight) ballistics, but this should completely dominate the terminal ballistics of .300blk in both subsonic and supersonic applications. I have an 8" Form 1 can bored for 9mm and set up without a booster for a PCC that I'd be hoping to use for 350 Legend. I got a 1/2-28 9mm PCC barrel (a somewhat uncommon thread) and a 1/2-28 Griffin Minimalist .30cal brake and bored it for 9mm. We'll have to see if any can manufacturers come out with a taper mount system with compatible threads for the Legend. My guess is there may be none initially, as none of the larger companies with popular mounting systems offer 9mm taper-mount cans that I can think of right now. The only one I can think of is the Griffin Hammer Comp for it's taper mount, but it isn't available in the finer and more common 1/2-32 and 1/2-36 9mm threads, which sounds like will be used on the first 350 Legend barrels. I guess I'll have to get a custom barrel (X-Caliber maybe?) with 1/2-28 threads and use the Griffin Hammer Comp, or hope that someone brings out a system that offers a taper mount .357 muzzle device with finer threads. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 3:38:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They need to do the same thing for big frame guns in .45. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 6:18:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
45 Raptor. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:22:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is this proprietary or SAAMI approved? |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:29:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I called for a reamer and was told they are waiting on this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
is this proprietary or SAAMI approved? 
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:33:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Will I still be able to grenade my AR by trying to shoot these rounds in it? If I cant have an ammo related kaboom due to trying to fire it in my standard AR I'm not interested!
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will I still be able to grenade my AR by trying to shoot these rounds in it? If I cant have an ammo related kaboom due to trying to fire it in my standard AR I'm not interested! So how motivated are you?
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Posted: 1/25/2019 8:41:03 PM EDT
[#42]
After thinking about this cartridge for a few day I have come to the conclusion that I’m genuinely excited for this. I have thought a lot of the nonstandard AR cartridges were cool and interesting but none of them had me wanting to open my wallet.
This is the largest bullet at the lowest cost to come to market. The .450 bushmaster is nice but in an AR it’s expensive. The 6.5 Grendel kicks ass but not deer hunting legal in my state. I just have to decide if I will swap a barrel in one of my 5.56 builds or if I will buy a complete upper to put on my orphaned lower. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 9:17:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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is this proprietary or SAAMI approved? https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/171658/4332226/350%20Legend%20chamber%20reamer..jpg |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 9:31:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was Manson reamers I talked to last week dang it I could be working on one sooner with a PTG reamer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
is this proprietary or SAAMI approved? https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/171658/4332226/350%20Legend%20chamber%20reamer..jpg 
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Posted: 1/25/2019 9:42:04 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ordered from PTG before? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
is this proprietary or SAAMI approved? https://d28lcup14p4e72.cloudfront.net/171658/4332226/350%20Legend%20chamber%20reamer..jpg |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 9:49:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Does it still take Varget?
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Posted: 1/25/2019 10:16:20 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will I still be able to grenade my AR by trying to shoot these rounds in it? If I cant have an ammo related kaboom due to trying to fire it in my standard AR I'm not interested! |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 10:19:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After thinking about this cartridge for a few day I have come to the conclusion that I’m genuinely excited for this. I have thought a lot of the nonstandard AR cartridges were cool and interesting but none of them had me wanting to open my wallet. This is the largest bullet at the lowest cost to come to market. The .450 bushmaster is nice but in an AR it’s expensive. The 6.5 Grendel kicks ass but not deer hunting legal in my state. I just have to decide if I will swap a barrel in one of my 5.56 builds or if I will buy a complete upper to put on my orphaned lower. I might still pick up Grendel though, but I don't think it's happening soon. |
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Posted: 1/25/2019 10:31:11 PM EDT
[#49]
I like the 357 angle, hope this can generate some more heavy 357 compatable bullets. I have Hornady's 2 200gr 358's, but they really are not 357 compatable due to shape. I have Penn's 235, but it is undersized for my rifle.
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Posted: 1/25/2019 10:31:31 PM EDT
[#50]
 NEW CMMG 350 Legend AR-15 Revealed at SHOT Show 2019 |
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