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Posted: 4/20/2023 11:35:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:37:59 AM EST
[#1]
Wait...

Are you providing legal advice to an attorney about not lying?

Um.... that is like telling a duck it can't get in the water.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:37:59 AM EST
[#2]
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:45:39 AM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?
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Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?



Did you even read the OP?

Rare Breed previously testified to her court that New York had no personal jurisdiction because they had never sold FRT-15s or FRT-15 parts to anyone or any company in New York.  They acknowledged that they had sent packages to New York, but stated the packages were from Rare Breed Firearms and that those packages just contained swag and the like.  Except that the ATF then got the post office to provide shipping records, and went knocking on doors, and then presented the court with copies of receipt(s) for FRT-15 parts sent directly to New York, along with statements from Torys who told ATF they had purchased FRT-15s and received them in New York.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:52:51 AM EST
[#4]
...as long as you live squeaky clean, and leave no actual legitimate or even reasonably questionable cause for action against you, you're probably in pretty good shape.
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Sadly I don't believe that anymore. There are so many laws on the books, and so many crooked prosecutors willing to purposefully misinterpret the spirit of the law, that no one is "clean". Show me the man and I'll show you the crime. Virginia is going after those guys at Charlottesville 5 years later for carrying tiki torches. They are using an old law that says "burning an object with intent to intimidate" that was intended for KKK burning crosses.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:54:35 AM EST
[#5]
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:55:36 AM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?
View Quote

THey went judge shopping, then probably found peeps who had recieved a spring or nut from rare breed to justify it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:56:45 AM EST
[#7]
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:57:22 AM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

THey went judge shopping, then probably found peeps who had recieved a spring or nut from rare breed to justify it.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?

THey went judge shopping, then probably found peeps who had recieved a spring or nut from rare breed to justify it.


Rare Breed knew they shouldn't sell to NY for this very reason and tried to hide this fact by lying to the judge, both were a poor strategic decision.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 11:57:46 AM EST
[#9]
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Quoted:



Did you even read the OP?

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?



Did you even read the OP?

Rare Breed previously testified to her court that New York had no personal jurisdiction because they had never sold FRT-15s or FRT-15 parts to anyone or any company in New York.  They acknowledged that they had sent packages to New York, but stated the packages were from Rare Breed Firearms and that those packages just contained swag and the like.  Except that the ATF then got the post office to provide shipping records, and went knocking on doors, and then presented the court with copies of receipt(s) for FRT-15 parts sent directly to New York, along with statements from Torys who told ATF they had purchased FRT-15s and received them in New York.



He’s asking how it got there in the first case, not why it’s still there

Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:00:01 PM EST
[#10]
Feds can still lie with no repercussions?

Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:03:08 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The judge wanted to move the case to a better venue, and went on record saying as much.  Then reversed course after being lied to.  Judges really don't like being lied to.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?

THey went judge shopping, then probably fount peeps who had recieved a spring or nut from rare breed to justify it.


The judge wanted to move the case to a better venue, and went on record saying as much.  Then reversed course after being lied to.  Judges really don't like being lied to.



The judge wasn't going to move the case for no reason and any reason they gave the ATF would probably refute.  The lie doesn't seemed to have actually changed anything.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:23:00 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Feds can still lie with no repercussions?

View Quote


It's good to be the king.

That's why you never co-oporate with the government.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:23:50 PM EST
[#13]
Wait, OP is a fed?


I fucking knew it!

Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:30:21 PM EST
[#14]
That’s really unfortunate for them and me. I was wanting one of the dual mode ones.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:33:14 PM EST
[#15]
ATF has been sending out notices in northern Virginia.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:35:31 PM EST
[#16]
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:43:07 PM EST
[#17]
I heard the ATF hired Dylan Mulvaney as their new spokesperson
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:43:25 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wait, OP is a fed?


I fucking knew it!

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Interesting how many folks who work/worked for the government don't trust it.

I worked directly for the feds for a bit over a decade.  
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:53:11 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Interesting how many folks who work/worked for the government don't trust it.

I worked directly for the feds for a bit over a decade.  
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I may or may not have worked for Uncle Sugar. If I had, I'd probably say that the experience did nothing but bolster my opinion that government is nearly universally corrupt and terrible at everything it tries to do.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:54:09 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Feds can still lie with no repercussions?

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YES
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 12:55:51 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The judge wasn't going to move the case for no reason and any reason they gave the ATF would probably refute.  The lie doesn't seemed to have actually changed anything.
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This is what i was under the impression. Im pretty sure when this first started that judge was panned on this very forum for being an antigun leftist. An excuse was going to be found.

And i still havent seen what rarebreed "sold" to newyorkers, but im willing to bet it wasnt a full-up trigger group sent to a ny address. Do we not recall how many legal specialists rb has employed, but poof, we lied to a judge?

Yeah, no. Not buying it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:01:59 PM EST
[#22]
TLDR:  Don't commit misdemeanors while committing felonies and get a lawyer when they knock on your door.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:04:41 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



He’s asking how it got there in the first case, not why it’s still there

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is this in NY? FAFT got to pick the venue?

Should that not upset the judge?



Did you even read the OP?

Rare Breed previously testified to her court that New York had no personal jurisdiction because they had never sold FRT-15s or FRT-15 parts to anyone or any company in New York.  They acknowledged that they had sent packages to New York, but stated the packages were from Rare Breed Firearms and that those packages just contained swag and the like.  Except that the ATF then got the post office to provide shipping records, and went knocking on doors, and then presented the court with copies of receipt(s) for FRT-15 parts sent directly to New York, along with statements from Torys who told ATF they had purchased FRT-15s and received them in New York.



He’s asking how it got there in the first case, not why it’s still there



Which was answered, they sold stuff in NY then lied to the judge about it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:05:53 PM EST
[#24]
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Quoted:


That is interesting...since the judge denied ATFs request for their customer list.
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Quoted:
ATF has been sending out notices in northern Virginia.


That is interesting...since the judge denied ATFs request for their customer list.


USPS has probably given them everything they need. Even if people didn't get an FRT I bet they'll get a letter if they received anything from them.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:06:27 PM EST
[#25]
Quoted:
but as long as you live squeaky clean, and leave no actual legitimate or even reasonably questionable cause for action against you, you're probably in pretty good shape.
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Wrongthink is more than a legitimate cause for action against any non-leftist these days, therein lies the problem.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:10:36 PM EST
[#26]
Don't lie is certainly the most important thing. I have a family member (not a citizen) who cannot come back to the United States, not because they may or may not have murdered someone, but because they lied on a visa application. The murder doesn't even factor into it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:11:54 PM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wait...

Are you providing legal advice to an attorney about not lying?

Um.... that is like telling a duck it can't get in the water.
View Quote

@UV18

Lying is such a dirty word, “reframing the argument in Better light to favor” is better


“Your honor as a duck I had training or past experience to indicate that the substance in which I was bathing was infact …water”
Or
“To the best of my knowledge the lake I was in was not water but dihydrogen monoxide and thus permissible “
Or
“Your honor I’m not a “duck” I self identify as a crow with a webbed feet birth defect; are you making fun of my
Deformity?”


Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:12:35 PM EST
[#28]
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:16:14 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Feds can still lie with no repercussions?

View Quote


The Feds can lie, the Judge can lie.  Prosecution can lie,.. most likely if you're a communist piece of shit you'll be allowed to lie as long as it helps .gov.

It's really only American Citizens who can't lie.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:33:25 PM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Interesting how many folks who work/worked for the government don't trust it.

I worked directly for the feds for a bit over a decade.  
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The Ron Swanson effect.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:36:38 PM EST
[#31]
My memory would be a little hazy (on whether or not parts were sent to NY) if I didn’t keep any official records.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 1:37:55 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That is interesting...since the judge denied ATFs request for their customer list.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
ATF has been sending out notices in northern Virginia.


That is interesting...since the judge denied ATFs request for their customer list.


@Ben
All mail is photographed/scanned, the from and to are kept. Pretty easy for the .gov to ask the .usps (also .gov) for “hey any packages from xyz address To NY state? Ok give me a list of all packages over 1 lb in an Excel file. “
“Great we also have letters from American Express to these addresses , suppeona  American express for credit card statements for year of 2020 for that address…. Hey look rare breed charged123 Main Street, Rochester NY for $418(exact cost of a FRT plus shipping ) .. bob jokes at 123 Main Street Rochester is getting a visit.”
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:22:41 PM EST
[#33]
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:28:35 PM EST
[#34]
Unless it's FISA/FISC then lie to the judge all you want and get rewarded for it...
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:42:46 PM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't lie is certainly the most important thing. I have a family member (not a citizen) who cannot come back to the United States, not because they may or may not have murdered someone, but because they lied on a visa application. The murder doesn't even factor into it.
View Quote

why hasn't your family member simply walked across the southern border?
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:45:10 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My memory would be a little hazy (on whether or not parts were sent to NY) if I didn’t keep any official records.
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I don’t recall sending anything to NY.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:51:37 PM EST
[#37]
I can recall precious few times (in my own investigatory experience) where someone willingly speaking about their involvement in an alleged crime truly HELPED exonerate them. At best, I got both sides of the story and forwarded to the SAO, who decided upon reading the entire case file that trying the case was not worth their effort and round filed it.

Two lessons from said experience:

1. None of those times came from a courtroom, they were all on-site where the original call for service/crime was alleged to have occurred (or the roadside where the stop was made).

2. Federal agencies / prosecutors do not have the lesser budgets and time constraints that district state attorneys have to contend with - and if you are a nail begging to be hammered, they'll purposefully choose you over anyone else.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 2:54:02 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That is interesting...since the judge denied ATFs request for their customer list.
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The judge denied the ATF's request for the customer list from the business, sure.

Who does the business use for tracking their shipping labels and packages? Something like Stamps.com, I'm assuming.

Doubt they would be unwilling to give up the list when pressured by ATF agents, especially because most normies think "machine guns" or "machine gun parts" should be illegal to own or use, regardless of whether they actually are illegal to own/use/possess under whatever specific circumstances (legal NFA weapons, post-samples, etc)
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 4:29:37 PM EST
[#39]
It takes a rare breed of person to lie to a judge.  

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