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Posted: 4/13/2024 8:56:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PA-Minuteman: Good for me ..it's closer this time  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PA-Minuteman: Originally Posted By StarCityShooter: Welp, sounds like Arf is having another meet & greet in NoVa soon "Hey Arf, you guys are seriously going to show up to WTCs court date?" https://media.tenor.com/3FYHxljDIw0AAAAM/randy-savage-correct.gif 
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:12:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By contract: Lawsuits are POINTLESS at this point. You will die before you get the court to decide, appeal after appeal. The photo above is the only way these days, unfortunately. It won’t get anywhere near a lawsuit. VCDL won’t file suit and doesn’t need to. The will file for a writ of mandamus and it will be granted. They have done it before and never been quashed. And the action is usually quick. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:24:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ridinshotgun: It won’t get anywhere near a lawsuit. VCDL won’t file suit and doesn’t need to. The will file for a writ of mandamus and it will be granted. They have done it before and never been quashed. And the action is usually quick. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ridinshotgun: Originally Posted By contract: Lawsuits are POINTLESS at this point. You will die before you get the court to decide, appeal after appeal. The photo above is the only way these days, unfortunately. It won’t get anywhere near a lawsuit. VCDL won’t file suit and doesn’t need to. The will file for a writ of mandamus and it will be granted. They have done it before and never been quashed. And the action is usually quick. Men on this site need to get used to two things; Winning, and fighting. I get people are butthurt, and it's really easy to complain on the internet and say "lawfare" and do nothing. So do something. I can't afford this, I don't care. OH NO THE ECONOMY ISN'T GOOD RIGHT NOW. Who gives a flying shit? Put that shit on a credit card, because if YOU don't do it no one will. I understand people sometimes are in bad places, and I can understand that. This place has proven it to me, many times over. But if YOU, yourself are not willing to fight your own battles, then (most respectfully) fuck you. Your government is a direct representation of YOU. I do not expect a random Georgian to send me money. It's not his fight. It's my fight. I don't expect someone from Faquier County to send me money, their county isn't retarded. My county is retarded. I'm going to win. Virginia is going to win. The judge is wrong and what he is asking for is illegal |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:33:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Concealed carry permits are issued by county instead of by the commonwealth in Virginia? Ohio as well. We can get it in our county or any contiguous county. So that a leftist sheriff in a blue county can’t hold you up. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 9:47:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Men on this site need to get used to two things; Winning, and fighting. I get people are butthurt, and it's really easy to complain on the internet and say "lawfare" and do nothing. So do something. I can't afford this, I don't care. OH NO THE ECONOMY ISN'T GOOD RIGHT NOW. Who gives a flying shit? Put that shit on a credit card, because if YOU don't do it no one will. I understand people sometimes are in bad places, and I can understand that. This place has proven it to me, many times over. But if YOU, yourself are not willing to fight your own battles, then (most respectfully) fuck you. Your government is a direct representation of YOU. I do not expect a random Georgian to send me money. It's not his fight. It's my fight. I don't expect someone from Faquier County to send me money, their county isn't retarded. My county is retarded. I'm going to win. Virginia is going to win. The judge is wrong and what he is asking for is illegal And having VCDL granted a writ of Mandamus is both fighting and winning!  |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 10:08:39 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ridinshotgun: And having VCDL granted a writ of Mandamus is both fighting and winning! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ridinshotgun: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Men on this site need to get used to two things; Winning, and fighting. I get people are butthurt, and it's really easy to complain on the internet and say "lawfare" and do nothing. So do something. I can't afford this, I don't care. OH NO THE ECONOMY ISN'T GOOD RIGHT NOW. Who gives a flying shit? Put that shit on a credit card, because if YOU don't do it no one will. I understand people sometimes are in bad places, and I can understand that. This place has proven it to me, many times over. But if YOU, yourself are not willing to fight your own battles, then (most respectfully) fuck you. Your government is a direct representation of YOU. I do not expect a random Georgian to send me money. It's not his fight. It's my fight. I don't expect someone from Faquier County to send me money, their county isn't retarded. My county is retarded. I'm going to win. Virginia is going to win. The judge is wrong and what he is asking for is illegal And having VCDL granted a writ of Mandamus is both fighting and winning! I am a couple beers deep but the older I get the wiser I get, and I'm still pretty retarded. Everything relies on you. Everything is your responsibility. |
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Posted: 4/13/2024 10:33:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WhiskersTheCat]
[#7]
(Paraphrased)
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, forget everything you've seen on television and in the movies. There's not going to be any last-minute surprise witnesses, nobody is going to break down on the stand with a tearful confession. You're going to be presented with simple fact. WhiskersTheCat was illegally denied his permit. You'll hear two explanations for why he was illegally denied his permit, ours and theirs. It is up to you to sift through layer upon layer of truth until you determine for yourselves which version sounds the most true. There are certain points which I must prove to you. Point number one, WhiskersTheCat was. . .is a retarded shitposter. Point number two, WhiskersTheCat, afflicted with a debilitating disease, made the understandable, the personal, the legal choice to keep the fact of his illness to himself. Point number three, his employers discovered his illness, and ladies and gentlemen, the illness I am referring to is freedom. Point number four, they panicked. And in their panic, they did what most of us would like to do with freedom, which is just get it, and everybody who has it, as far away from the rest of us as is possible. Now, the behavior of WhiskersTheCat's county may seem reasonable to you. It does to me. After all, freedom is a deadly, incurable disease. But no matter how you come to judge Fairfax County and their partners, in ethical, moral, and in human terms, the fact of the matter is, when they denied WhiskersTheCat because he loved freedom they broke the law. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/13/2024 11:09:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Houstons_Problem: Concealed carry permits are issued by county instead of by the commonwealth in Virginia? Clerk of court issues them in your locality |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:18:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: (Paraphrased) Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, forget everything you've seen on television and in the movies. There's not going to be any last-minute surprise witnesses, nobody is going to break down on the stand with a tearful confession. You're going to be presented with simple fact. WhiskersTheCat was illegally denied his permit. You'll hear two explanations for why he was illegally denied his permit, ours and theirs. It is up to you to sift through layer upon layer of truth until you determine for yourselves which version sounds the most true. There are certain points which I must prove to you. Point number one, WhiskersTheCat was. . .is a retarded shitposter. Point number two, WhiskersTheCat, afflicted with a debilitating disease, made the understandable, the personal, the legal choice to keep the fact of his illness to himself. Point number three, his employers discovered his illness, and ladies and gentlemen, the illness I am referring to is freedom. Point number four, they panicked. And in their panic, they did what most of us would like to do with freedom, which is just get it, and everybody who has it, as far away from the rest of us as is possible. Now, the behavior of WhiskersTheCat's county may seem reasonable to you. It does to me. After all, freedom is a deadly, incurable disease. But no matter how you come to judge Fairfax County and their partners, in ethical, moral, and in human terms, the fact of the matter is, when they denied WhiskersTheCat because he loved freedom they broke the law. If wearing a suit you shall wear "an appeal to Heaven" pin. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:23:31 PM EDT
[#10]
I know I'm an idiot to have to ask
, but is this a situation of the application being a renewal, and they stupidly processed it as a new/first application, and accordingly requested a copy of the training/proficiency docs? |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:24:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: If wearing a suit you shall wear "an appeal to Heaven" pin. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: (Paraphrased) Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, forget everything you've seen on television and in the movies. There's not going to be any last-minute surprise witnesses, nobody is going to break down on the stand with a tearful confession. You're going to be presented with simple fact. WhiskersTheCat was illegally denied his permit. You'll hear two explanations for why he was illegally denied his permit, ours and theirs. It is up to you to sift through layer upon layer of truth until you determine for yourselves which version sounds the most true. There are certain points which I must prove to you. Point number one, WhiskersTheCat was. . .is a retarded shitposter. Point number two, WhiskersTheCat, afflicted with a debilitating disease, made the understandable, the personal, the legal choice to keep the fact of his illness to himself. Point number three, his employers discovered his illness, and ladies and gentlemen, the illness I am referring to is freedom. Point number four, they panicked. And in their panic, they did what most of us would like to do with freedom, which is just get it, and everybody who has it, as far away from the rest of us as is possible. Now, the behavior of WhiskersTheCat's county may seem reasonable to you. It does to me. After all, freedom is a deadly, incurable disease. But no matter how you come to judge Fairfax County and their partners, in ethical, moral, and in human terms, the fact of the matter is, when they denied WhiskersTheCat because he loved freedom they broke the law. If wearing a suit you shall wear "an appeal to Heaven" pin. Our literal flag is a civil war flag and the tyrant is the federal government. We already have based symbolism everywhere. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:25:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Butternut: I know I'm an idiot to have to ask , but is this a situation of the application being a renewal, and they stupidly processed it as a new/first application, and accordingly requested a copy of the training/proficiency docs? It's not a stupid question. Yes, this is either a case of a judge not knowing the law at best, or demanding things he cannot at worst. Even if he's stupid, you don't acquiesce to stupidity. |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:27:09 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't care if he's stupid or acting in bad faith. Neither outcome is acceptable.
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LA, USA
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Posted: 4/14/2024 4:30:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Men on this site need to get used to two things; Winning, and fighting. I get people are butthurt, and it's really easy to complain on the internet and say "lawfare" and do nothing. So do something. I can't afford this, I don't care. OH NO THE ECONOMY ISN'T GOOD RIGHT NOW. Who gives a flying shit? Put that shit on a credit card, because if YOU don't do it no one will. I understand people sometimes are in bad places, and I can understand that. This place has proven it to me, many times over. But if YOU, yourself are not willing to fight your own battles, then (most respectfully) fuck you. Your government is a direct representation of YOU. I do not expect a random Georgian to send me money. It's not his fight. It's my fight. I don't expect someone from Faquier County to send me money, their county isn't retarded. My county is retarded. I'm going to win. Virginia is going to win. The judge is wrong and what he is asking for is illegal  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/14/2024 6:29:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sierra-def: If wearing a suit you shall wear "an appeal to Heaven" pin. I have an "Appeal to Heaven" flag hanging in my office window on campus, facing a big parking deck and the bus terminal. 
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Posted: 4/14/2024 6:34:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I have an "Appeal to Heaven" flag hanging in my office on campus, facing a big parking deck and the bus terminal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By sierra-def: If wearing a suit you shall wear "an appeal to Heaven" pin. I have an "Appeal to Heaven" flag hanging in my office on campus, facing a big parking deck and the bus terminal. Based. I have one but I haven't busted it out yet. We can't let those northerners think they have a good flag they will get a little too cocky |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:14:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Intune]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: As a minor point of order, the Fairfax County Circuit Court is within the provenance and supervision of the STATE ("commonwealth") of Virginia. Fairfax County Circuit Court is, in no manner, any instrument of Fairfax County government. The Fairfax County Board of Supervisors unconscionable posture toward gun owners certainly doesn't help. But to be clear, the Circuit Court Judge takes no orders from the Board of Supervisors. Arguably, the "supplemental salary payment" - over and above the base-rate paid to the various constitutional officers in Fairfax, and paid by the Fairfax County Government, might suggest that those officers (Judges, Sheriff Dept., Commonwealth's Attorneys, etc.) could be beholden to the County Governmnent. In my experience, I don't find that to be a fact. All Circuit Court Judges in Virginia are appointed by majority-vote of the respective houses of the General Assembly. The county government, and the citizens of the county have no say in judicial appointments. The "curious" interpretation of the Judge in this case is surely a function of his own opinion of what the law will allow him to do. I suspect this will - in fact - require litigation. I don't see the judge in this matter taking the posture of admitting mistake. The Attorney General Opinion will only make him more entrenched in his position. You can be sure he knew exactly what he was doing when he did it, and he 100% believes the law allows him to do it. You wanted a show? - Yes, there will be a show. https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYndvb3QwNDh5Mnk1cXN0enVhb2EwdTQydGozaGs4bjM4MDgzOHlmZCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/BYYyZw56FrQ0jI1Q6u/source.gif ‘71-‘81, you could already see the seeds of the shitshow Fairfax County was going to fully blossom into… We’re going to run out of spots to run to at some point. Stay/start the fight now with the legal tools. Thank you, Sir, for fighting the good fight! ETA: I just read through the rest of the thread and a meet-up/show of support on the court date could possibly make a positive media event. At least it probably won’t be so damn cold this time.  Attached File |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 12:19:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: It's not a stupid question. Yes, this is either a case of a judge not knowing the law at best, or demanding things he cannot at worst. Even if he's stupid, you don't acquiesce to stupidity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By Butternut: I know I'm an idiot to have to ask , but is this a situation of the application being a renewal, and they stupidly processed it as a new/first application, and accordingly requested a copy of the training/proficiency docs? It's not a stupid question. Yes, this is either a case of a judge not knowing the law at best, or demanding things he cannot at worst. Even if he's stupid, you don't acquiesce to stupidity. Sir, I didn't mean to eavesdrop, but are you holding a government agent to the laws? Hope you don't mind, but may I inquire more? I would like to know more... |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:29:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Butternut: I know I'm an idiot to have to ask , but is this a situation of the application being a renewal, and they stupidly processed it as a new/first application, and accordingly requested a copy of the training/proficiency docs? It very well could be. Friday I submitted my application for a renewal as well so it will be fun to see if they do the same thing to me (I also did not attach any supporting documents with it about in person training) |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:35:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Sir, I didn't mean to eavesdrop, but are you holding a government agent to the laws? Hope you don't mind, but may I inquire more? I would like to know more... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haveTwo: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By Butternut: I know I'm an idiot to have to ask , but is this a situation of the application being a renewal, and they stupidly processed it as a new/first application, and accordingly requested a copy of the training/proficiency docs? It's not a stupid question. Yes, this is either a case of a judge not knowing the law at best, or demanding things he cannot at worst. Even if he's stupid, you don't acquiesce to stupidity. Sir, I didn't mean to eavesdrop, but are you holding a government agent to the laws? Hope you don't mind, but may I inquire more? I would like to know more... 
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Posted: 4/15/2024 9:53:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DK-Prof]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By am6186: Interesting thread. I just dropped my renewal application at the Fairfax Courthouse this AM. In the new form there is a question 8. P. Where you state yes or no if you taken an in person class or training for competency with a handgun. I stated yes on the form, but did not attach anything as requested by question 9. There are also signs up near the civil intake section of the courthouse that if you have an outdated SP-248 you will have to refill out the correct form (assuming they added these in after those laws pass). Hilariously, it even says on the form that question 9 is only required for initial permits. See the snip below. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476519/sp248_snip_PNG-3185759.JPG I will say, minus the TSA would be proud strip search to enter the courthouse (shoes, belt, hat, jacket, and everything in your pockets), everyone from the front desk lady to the lady who processed my form were very polite and friendly. Should be interesting if mine is denied in the same manner. Supposed to send it in 45 days before expiration, I am a little late if I only count business days (1 week late), but 20 some days early if not counting business days. Guess we will roll dice :D. Good luck Whiskers. I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it.  Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 10:44:43 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By am6186: Interesting thread. I just dropped my renewal application at the Fairfax Courthouse this AM. In the new form there is a question 8. P. Where you state yes or no if you taken an in person class or training for competency with a handgun. I stated yes on the form, but did not attach anything as requested by question 9. There are also signs up near the civil intake section of the courthouse that if you have an outdated SP-248 you will have to refill out the correct form (assuming they added these in after those laws pass). Hilariously, it even says on the form that question 9 is only required for initial permits. See the snip below. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476519/sp248_snip_PNG-3185759.JPG I will say, minus the TSA would be proud strip search to enter the courthouse (shoes, belt, hat, jacket, and everything in your pockets), everyone from the front desk lady to the lady who processed my form were very polite and friendly. Should be interesting if mine is denied in the same manner. Supposed to send it in 45 days before expiration, I am a little late if I only count business days (1 week late), but 20 some days early if not counting business days. Guess we will roll dice :D. Good luck Whiskers. I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. DK. Exactly my thought process. I figured if I clicked no it would instant denial so I did yes and then just left 9 blank as stated. I personally used a hunter safety course (that was in person) in 2019 when I applied but the rules were much more lax back then. So we shall see what happens. I have been meaning to get off my ass and go to an actual pistol class anyway this year so if they deny it it might be a good excuse to go do one. That being said I'm with whiskers it's a renewal so I shouldn't have to provide anything. I was also thinking this when up at the counter. The "renewal" of the permit makes u go to window 319 which is new civil intake. When I did an address change on my old permit I went to 320 which was existing civil intake. So I am now wondering if they are treating everything as initial since it's initial for the 2024 case year......even though it is a renewal of the permit. Honestly this may just come down to the judge misreading the form.... in the top right you check initial or renewal so they might have just missed that. Oh well should be interesting to see what mine does. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/15/2024 11:16:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. Yes. Online classes are no longer accepted for new permits in VA. Legally it doesn't matter for a renewal, but some counties have been unlawfully denying people who don't show proof of in person training. |
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Posted: 4/15/2024 11:17:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere: Tag. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:21:45 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:24:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Godspeed brother. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:27:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Give em hell my man. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:28:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DrPerceptron]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated.  Give em hell! Edit: Our flag is also the best because it has a boob. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:31:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DrPerceptron: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/toast_gif-994.gif Give em hell! Edit: Our flag is also the best because it has a boob. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DrPerceptron: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/toast_gif-994.gif Give em hell! Edit: Our flag is also the best because it has a boob. THE FREEDOM TITTY |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:33:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Clemson_John: Am I the only one that noticed the judge's letter actually quoted the wrong law? You told them to actually read the law they quoted, but it's a law about felons in possession of a firearm. 308.2 != 308.02 If judge cited wrong law this should be a quick win. It should be a quick win anyway |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 5:47:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. Stafford county though. The permit only took 11 days total to get to me. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:10:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Brother, yes. I work with retail. Everyone says "it's about the principle" but really they mean money. I legit do not care about money and only principle. If I can defeat this trash and be 10k in debt I legit don't care. They're wrong morally. They're wrong legally. I'm right. I do not care. There will be no fundraiser. The only thing that will happen is the government being forced to apply the law. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 6:25:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DK-Prof: Originally Posted By am6186: Interesting thread. I just dropped my renewal application at the Fairfax Courthouse this AM. In the new form there is a question 8. P. Where you state yes or no if you taken an in person class or training for competency with a handgun. I stated yes on the form, but did not attach anything as requested by question 9. There are also signs up near the civil intake section of the courthouse that if you have an outdated SP-248 you will have to refill out the correct form (assuming they added these in after those laws pass). Hilariously, it even says on the form that question 9 is only required for initial permits. See the snip below. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/476519/sp248_snip_PNG-3185759.JPG I will say, minus the TSA would be proud strip search to enter the courthouse (shoes, belt, hat, jacket, and everything in your pockets), everyone from the front desk lady to the lady who processed my form were very polite and friendly. Should be interesting if mine is denied in the same manner. Supposed to send it in 45 days before expiration, I am a little late if I only count business days (1 week late), but 20 some days early if not counting business days. Guess we will roll dice :D. Good luck Whiskers. I am kind of curious about this. Have they changed the requirement for training to in-person only for NEW permits, and are now trying to screw people who didn't originally do that? I did the on-line "class" about 15 years ago, when I first got my permit - and so I am wondering if they are denying renewals for people like me. Looking at that form, I am thinking that if I check "no" on the question about (in-person) training, they will immediately deny it. Mine expires in early 2025, so I guess I will find out - and I am particularly interested in how this plays out. I don’t see how they get away with that since any renewal only requires a copy of the permit (even an expired one as stated in the code). No renewal application can require proof of training. Not in the code any where for renewals. You don’t even have to apply in person. The code now says it can all be done in writing and the in person was taken out of the code. So they have to accept mail in applications with copies of the required documents. That is what my county refused to do saying they were refusing my renewal for an expired permit unless I showed up in person then they said oh well you also have to send proof of training. Yeah well it is right in front of you via the expired permit you moron. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:52:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#34]
Git’em, WTC!
If we need a Richmond Rally 2.0 at the hearing please send the bat signal. A dozen VA shooting buddies and I did it then and we’ll do it again. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:56:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Break it off in the judge's ass.  |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:58:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Git’em, WTC! If we need a Richmond Rally 2.0 at the yearning please send the bat signal. A dozen VA shooting buddies and I did it then and we’ll do it again. I very much appreciate your dedication and support, but this one needs to be quiet and done with lawyers. I'm not worried about winning, I'm worried they'll weasel from it. Specifically, as I understand the law I'm entitled to an Ore Tenus hearing which does not set law. What I want is for it to go to court and we get a ruling everyone can cite. My biggest fear is they rollover on it and say "Sorry, here's your permit." That will not help the next guy. I'm looking to fix the breach with case law. If I end up going civil on them then profits will go to VCDL. It is time to start fighting. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Since you won't take money from us, I was forced to donate to VCDL instead. Break it off in the judge's ass. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/187397/Screenshot_20240416_185318_Brave-3189858.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Break it off in the judge's ass. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/187397/Screenshot_20240416_185318_Brave-3189858.jpg Next time we meet, first cold beer is on me. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:05:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: W_E_G]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: My biggest fear is they rollover on it and say "Sorry, here's your permit." That would mean admitting "they" made a mistake. I'd say the odds of that are slim. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:12:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: That would mean admitting "they" made a mistake. I'd say the odds of that are slim. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: My biggest fear is they rollover on it and say "Sorry, here's your permit." That would mean admitting "they" made a mistake. I'd say the odds of that are slim. You would be surprised. Governments drop cases all the time for fear they'll lose tools. Remember when people asked for discovery on Stingray and the government dropped pretty large actual crime charges? Whiskers remembers. If it is extremist to believe that the government serves us and we do not serve the government than they may label me however they please. I have broken no laws, and perhaps worse the government has attempted to break the law. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:20:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: That would mean admitting "they" made a mistake. I'd say the odds of that are slim. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By W_E_G: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: My biggest fear is they rollover on it and say "Sorry, here's your permit." That would mean admitting "they" made a mistake. I'd say the odds of that are slim. However, that doesn't mean that Whiskers isn't going to accomplish anything here. Far from it. If they roll over, his hearing will still be useful for the next guy (that gets into some state law nuance that I'm not going to know), but in the states I'm familiar with you can pay for an official transcript of a hearing, then others can use it. It's not precedent exactly but it isn't useless. If they roll over, FOIA everyone and their dog for communications about the training requirement. If some dickhead has promoted this idea, expose them, and possibly it is 1983 suit (and/or VA state equivalent) time. And, when it's done, absolutely file a bar complaint, espicially if FOIA shows any shady shit. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:39:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Next time we meet, first cold beer is on me. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Break it off in the judge's ass. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/187397/Screenshot_20240416_185318_Brave-3189858.jpg Next time we meet, first cold beer is on me.   Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:56:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Hey, I'm just worried that if VA is run by despots they'll try to enforce the 1609 charter boundaries and bring that shit to me. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png/220px-Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: I'm in the process of setting up a call with VCDL as well as counsel and will keep everyone updated. Break it off in the judge's ass. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/187397/Screenshot_20240416_185318_Brave-3189858.jpg Next time we meet, first cold beer is on me. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png/220px-Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:03:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Hey, I'm just worried that if VA is run by despots they'll try to enforce the 1609 charter boundaries and bring that shit to me. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png/220px-Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way. Malort! I can walk to the distillery and grab a case if you’re interested. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:31:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChicagoFoodie: Malort! I can walk to the distillery and grab a case if you're interested. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChicagoFoodie: Originally Posted By p3590: Hey, I'm just worried that if VA is run by despots they'll try to enforce the 1609 charter boundaries and bring that shit to me. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png/220px-Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way. Malort! I can walk to the distillery and grab a case if you're interested. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map and decide to liberate parts of Canada. It's going to ruin my entire weekend to help with that, plus Alberta's flag will look odd with a titty. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:34:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: You cannot feed the Virginians an entire case of malort at once. A pint to sip in the parking garage outside the VA Supreme Court is safe. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map and decide to liberate parts of Canada. It's going to ruin my entire weekend to help with that, plus Alberta's flag will look odd with a titty. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By p3590: Originally Posted By ChicagoFoodie: Originally Posted By p3590: Hey, I'm just worried that if VA is run by despots they'll try to enforce the 1609 charter boundaries and bring that shit to me. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png/220px-Wpdms_virginia_company_plymouth_council.png Cold beer is fine...but if you wind up in court in Richmond, I'll fly out of Chicago and pick up a pint of Malort on the way. Malort! I can walk to the distillery and grab a case if you're interested. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map and decide to liberate parts of Canada. It's going to ruin my entire weekend to help with that, plus Alberta's flag will look odd with a titty. All flags are improved by the supple breast of liberty. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:35:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By p3590: You cannot feed the Virginians an entire case of malort at once. A pint to sip in the parking garage outside the VA Supreme Court is safe. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map and decide to liberate parts of Canada. It's going to ruin my entire weekend to help with that, plus Alberta's flag will look odd with a titty. Originally Posted By LoBrau: All flags are improved by the supple breast of liberty. Signature updated |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:36:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Cleaned up
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Posted: 4/17/2024 12:08:41 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Signature updated Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Originally Posted By p3590: You cannot feed the Virginians an entire case of malort at once. A pint to sip in the parking garage outside the VA Supreme Court is safe. With a case, they're going to pull up the 1609 map and decide to liberate parts of Canada. It's going to ruin my entire weekend to help with that, plus Alberta's flag will look odd with a titty. Originally Posted By LoBrau: All flags are improved by the supple breast of liberty. Signature updated 
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Posted: 4/17/2024 12:16:10 AM EDT
[#49]
Godspeed WTC
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NH, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 12:27:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WhiskersTheCat: Based. I have one but I haven't busted it out yet. We can't let those northerners think they have a good flag they will get a little too cocky We already know. |
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