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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:23:25 AM EDT
[#1]
if a U.S. war with Russia or China ever went nuclear.
• Armor-piercing joint air-to-surface standoff missile • Tomahawk land attack missile that is the U.S. Navy’s weapon of choice • The Harpoon missile that the Ukrainians have used in the Black Sea.
microelectronics, and seekers for munitions have been major bottlenecks. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 10:42:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: But that would’ve attacking women of color! Yes I guess. Someone really needs to develop some form of hierarchy of victimhood chart. I guess the more points you can accumulate the better: A black Muslim trannie female would likely be on the top. I know being a white European, I will be at the bottom, but it sure would be helpful to get a chart for all the diversity. All the fighting on college campuses between two minority groups is directly due to no one being 100% sure which has superiority, Jews or Palestinians. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:02:46 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:04:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
That’s a lot of long words and we’re not but humble pirates  I’m gonna need to tackle that later and I need a sponsorship!  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:21:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Why are there no cope cages for trenches? |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:50:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Why are there no cope cages for trenches? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Why are there no cope cages for trenches? If they have time to improve their trenches, they add cope cages too. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yes I guess. Someone really needs to develop some form of hierarchy of victimhood chart. There's a site for that. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:03:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
You had me at Spike missile.  https://defence-industry.eu/feloni-aero-introduces-weaponized-drones-to-strengthen-defence-efforts-in-ukraine/ https://militaryleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FelonX.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:380x238/rscb1/ngcb1/notWebP Mini Spike test footage in the U.S. the missile costs $5,000. https://chuckhillscgblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/spikenavy-5-lb-missle-inline-660x660.jpg https://chuckhillscgblog.net/2016/05/10/china-lake-spike-the-5000-missile/ This could get interesting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
These are the Felon 1.0 c with a 5.56 mm caliber weapon system and the FelonX, which has the world's smallest Spike missile You had me at Spike missile. https://defence-industry.eu/feloni-aero-introduces-weaponized-drones-to-strengthen-defence-efforts-in-ukraine/ “Our mission at Feloni Aero is to empower nations with cutting-edge defence technologies that ensure safety and security in an ever-evolving geopolitical landscape,” said Todd Dunphy, CEO at Feloni Aero. “With the unwavering support from the United States government through the recent spending bill, we stand ready to contribute to Ukraine’s defence efforts by delivering advanced weaponized UAVs that redefine the paradigm of modern warfare.” Feloni Aero’s weaponized UAVs are designed to address the diverse needs of military operations, offering customizable configurations to suit specific mission requirements. From reconnaissance and surveillance to precision strikes and target acquisition, these drones deliver unparalleled performance and reliability in the field. The company’s counter drone millimeter wave technology represents a revolutionary approach to mitigating the growing threat posed by unauthorized drones in sensitive airspace. Utilizing millimeter wave technology, these systems offer unparalleled precision and effectiveness in detecting, tracking, and neutralizing rogue drones. This advanced technology enables rapid response to potential threats, safeguarding critical infrastructure, public events, and military installations from malicious drone incursions. With its ability to provide real-time situational awareness and proactive countermeasures, the C-UAS technology emerges as a critical asset in the defence against unauthorized drone activity https://militaryleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FelonX.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:380x238/rscb1/ngcb1/notWebP Mini Spike test footage in the U.S. the missile costs $5,000. https://chuckhillscgblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/spikenavy-5-lb-missle-inline-660x660.jpg https://chuckhillscgblog.net/2016/05/10/china-lake-spike-the-5000-missile/ We have talked about the need for a small missile to deal with small, fast, highly maneuverable threats, with less chance of collateral damage than is inherent in using guns. We have talked about Hellfire, Brimstone, Griffin, and guided 70mm rockets. Now it appears there is now an even smaller and much cheaper weapon that seems almost ideal for this end of the target spectrum. It has been in development for quite a while, but appears ready for production. Its range and precision appear to be much better than the machine guns we are currently using. The Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division at China Lake has developed a very small missile called “Spike,” and the price is right–a marginal coast for each additional missile of only about $5000. This should not be confused with the Israeli missile family also called Spike. The following from the Wikipedia entry on the system: Spike was designed by the U.S. Navy, with assistance from DRS Technologies, and is proclaimed to be “the world’s smallest guided missile.” Initially made to be carried by U.S. Marines, with three missiles and the launcher able to fit in a standard backpack, it weighs 5.4 lb (2.4 kg), is 25 in (640 mm) long, and 2.25 in (57 mm) in diameter. The warhead weighs about 1 lb (450 gr) and employs the Explosively Formed Projectile (EFP) effect, made to penetrate before detonating. It is powered by a small rocket motor that gives it a range exceeding 2 mi (3.2 km), making it safer and more accurate than rocket propelled grenades (RPGs). The missile is directed to its target by either an electro-optical (EO) or semi-active laser (SAL) seeker; the EO camera is similar to a basic cellphone camera, containing a 1-megapixel video camera that allows the shooter to select the area to engage in a fire-and-forget mode. The EO seeker cannot operate at night, so the SAL would have to be used. A third targeting mode is inertial, meaning the user can “snap and shoot” at a target without needing to lock on out to 200 meters. Both the Spike missile and reusable launcher each cost $5,000 and weigh 10 lb (4.5 kg) loaded, compared to 49 lb (22 kg) for a Javelin missile and fire control unit. It has an unusual development history, being developed in house, quickly, at low cost, in response to a “rapid development capabilities” (RDC) program. Consequently the government now owns the design and can be assembled by contractors with no prior missile manufacturing experience and uses Commercial Off the Shelf (COTS) components. It is included in the FY2017 Navy budget along with Griffin and Javalin as program element 3342: “Griffin Missile” intended to develop and deliver Counter-Swarm Small Boat defense capabilities for the Surface Fleet. (It is also interesting to see that this program still anticipates the use of the Griffin missile system (GMS) by the LCS even though the Long Bow Hellfire has already been selected to arm these ships.) The missile is reportedly also effective against UAVs, helicopters, and some general aviation aircraft, so it should offer a degree of defense against attacks using these types of platforms. This could get interesting. The Spike has been around for a pretty good while. Many moons ago, I got asked if we could mount one on one of our fixed-wings and fly some tests. Even though the airframe we were using at the time was a former Army target drone, civilian agencies aren't supposed to weaponize their platforms. I thought it would have been great fun myself.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:07:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
if a U.S. war with Russia or China ever went nuclear.
• Armor-piercing joint air-to-surface standoff missile • Tomahawk land attack missile that is the U.S. Navy’s weapon of choice • The Harpoon missile that the Ukrainians have used in the Black Sea.
microelectronics, and seekers for munitions have been major bottlenecks. But, do they have money for startup of small/small-ish electric motor production for sUAS? Do they have money for US production of sUAS avionics like speed controllers? How about lithium battery production for sUAS? If sUAS are going to be part of the future of warfare (something I've been literally saying for more than 20 years), then we need to have domestic production of those things at scale at an "affordable" cost. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:48:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: It's typical for German companies, (offically) non of them are making anything for military because of the politically hyper correct libtards. No civilian company would list Rheinmetall or Diehl Defense as customer or partner. The leftists are compiling and publishing lists with companies who clandistinely working for the defense sector. I read about one instance from a company that made screws for H&K, the libtards even protested for days in front of the entrance. They lost lots of customers, because working with such companies is branded unethical in Germany. Groups like Diehl are having dozens of subcompanies located all over the world, offically strictly separated between civilian and defense, not only to avoid taxes. Amazing but not surprising. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 12:52:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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Posted: 5/3/2024 1:30:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stone-age]
[#13]
So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. Nobody is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. And Russia is starting to get their s*** together better than they were. How do y'all really think this ends?
Edited because I can't type. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 1:33:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMoRhKtXEAAAIef?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMboFTvW0AA2F9z?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:02:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Its like that retard Obama was wrong when he claimed numbers didnt count What the hell is that term dismormphia? When people look in the mirror but see something else. That was Team Obama’s DOD policy press releases into Trump’s era. Same for the economy. JV team |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:05:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. How many is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. How do y'all really think this ends? Depends - does the US get involved inside Iran on the ground to stop a nuclear Iran that UN inspectors have declared is fucky and several Presidents including Trump claimed they would not allow? After 2020 team Biden or Trump aren’t running for a 3rd term. Does China decide to FO for Formosa? Lot of things outside Ukraine and NATO’s control that would have huge impact. Enemy gets a vote |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. How many is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. How do y'all really think this ends? There’s a reason we have an axis thread which I was trying to explain way back in 2013 to Washington DC but team Obama ignored me /told me to pound sand - same for ISIS in May 2013 - only OSCE Ukraine, Washington Times, Fox News a couple Congressmen were interested in what I had to say 1 vs 1 these axis players get curb stomped but team up and they have a 50 / 50 shot at their goals |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:08:10 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Depends - does the US get involved inside Iran on the ground to stop a nuclear Iran that YN inspectors have declared is ducky and several Presidents including Trump claimed they would not allow? After 2020 team Biden or Trump aren’t running for a 3rd term. Does China decide to FO for Formosa? Lot of things outside Ukraine and NATO’s control that would have huge impact. Enemy gets a vote Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. How many is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. How do y'all really think this ends? Depends - does the US get involved inside Iran on the ground to stop a nuclear Iran that YN inspectors have declared is ducky and several Presidents including Trump claimed they would not allow? After 2020 team Biden or Trump aren’t running for a 3rd term. Does China decide to FO for Formosa? Lot of things outside Ukraine and NATO’s control that would have huge impact. Enemy gets a vote Crap. I was not aware that stuff would affect the war in Ukraine very much. I asked because I don't know. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:26:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Super late since I'm so far behind this thread, but this is the seminal quote for my entire stand in UA/RUS conflict. Right on Capta! Love it! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By stoner63a: This is how you get Gog and Magog. We can blame Armageddon on Biden and the demmunists. Biden forced Russia to invade Ukraine in 2022? In 2014? Georgia in 2008? Chechnya again in 2000? Chechnya in 96? Poland in 81? Afghanistan in 79? Czechoslovakia in 68? Hungary in 56? Finland and Poland in 39? Forced Russia to murder millions in Ukraine in 32? Poland in 21? That's just since 1917, and I'm sure I missed several. Russia was and is the Evil Empire. No man knows the day and the hour, but if the time comes, better to stand with the righteous than piss your pants like a coward. Right on Capta! Love it! 
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:26:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Crap. I was not aware that stuff would affect the war in Ukraine very much. I asked because I don't know. US declared threats for the last decade has China at #1 so if things kicked off the Pacific would supersede Ukraine. The last 2 Presidents declared they would not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. The public isn’t gonna like Operation Iranian Freedom but this time unlike with Saddam it’s not the US making claims about Iran nukes it’s United Nations inspectors plus neither Biden or Trump would be risking losing a 3rd term as President at most Congress would flip in 2 years so that’s another possible region superseding Ukraine in US declared policy. There’s also other possibilities that would not super cede Europe but would or could tax and overstretch the US. Ukraine now has a respite but counting on eternal US aid and assistance may not be prudent. Plus monitor governments like Italy to see how they do in elections. Japan and South Korea government just had a parliamentary flip flop with some South Korean factions pushing the anti China South Korean President to make nice with Xi Jinping and ignore Taiwan https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/c7fb9e7347ac-voting-underway-for-3-by-elections-in-japans-lower-house.html  Attached Filehttps://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-koreas-president-talks-to-opposition-about-cooperation-after-his-party-was-routed-in-election/amp_articleshow/109687897.cms |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:31:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
You had me at Spike missile. https://defence-industry.eu/feloni-aero-introduces-weaponized-drones-to-strengthen-defence-efforts-in-ukraine/ https://militaryleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FelonX.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:380x238/rscb1/ngcb1/notWebP Mini Spike test footage in the U.S. the missile costs $5,000. https://chuckhillscgblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/spikenavy-5-lb-missle-inline-660x660.jpg https://chuckhillscgblog.net/2016/05/10/china-lake-spike-the-5000-missile/ This could get interesting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
These are the Felon 1.0 c with a 5.56 mm caliber weapon system and the FelonX, which has the world's smallest Spike missile You had me at Spike missile. https://defence-industry.eu/feloni-aero-introduces-weaponized-drones-to-strengthen-defence-efforts-in-ukraine/ “Our mission at Feloni Aero is to empower nations with cutting-edge defence technologies that ensure safety and security in an ever-evolving geopolitical landscape,” said Todd Dunphy, CEO at Feloni Aero. “With the unwavering support from the United States government through the recent spending bill, we stand ready to contribute to Ukraine’s defence efforts by delivering advanced weaponized UAVs that redefine the paradigm of modern warfare.” Feloni Aero’s weaponized UAVs are designed to address the diverse needs of military operations, offering customizable configurations to suit specific mission requirements. From reconnaissance and surveillance to precision strikes and target acquisition, these drones deliver unparalleled performance and reliability in the field. The company’s counter drone millimeter wave technology represents a revolutionary approach to mitigating the growing threat posed by unauthorized drones in sensitive airspace. Utilizing millimeter wave technology, these systems offer unparalleled precision and effectiveness in detecting, tracking, and neutralizing rogue drones. This advanced technology enables rapid response to potential threats, safeguarding critical infrastructure, public events, and military installations from malicious drone incursions. With its ability to provide real-time situational awareness and proactive countermeasures, the C-UAS technology emerges as a critical asset in the defence against unauthorized drone activity https://militaryleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/FelonX.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:380x238/rscb1/ngcb1/notWebP Mini Spike test footage in the U.S. the missile costs $5,000. https://chuckhillscgblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/spikenavy-5-lb-missle-inline-660x660.jpg https://chuckhillscgblog.net/2016/05/10/china-lake-spike-the-5000-missile/ We have talked about the need for a small missile to deal with small, fast, highly maneuverable threats, with less chance of collateral damage than is inherent in using guns. We have talked about Hellfire, Brimstone, Griffin, and guided 70mm rockets. Now it appears there is now an even smaller and much cheaper weapon that seems almost ideal for this end of the target spectrum. It has been in development for quite a while, but appears ready for production. Its range and precision appear to be much better than the machine guns we are currently using. The Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division at China Lake has developed a very small missile called “Spike,” and the price is right–a marginal coast for each additional missile of only about $5000. This should not be confused with the Israeli missile family also called Spike. The following from the Wikipedia entry on the system: Spike was designed by the U.S. Navy, with assistance from DRS Technologies, and is proclaimed to be “the world’s smallest guided missile.” Initially made to be carried by U.S. Marines, with three missiles and the launcher able to fit in a standard backpack, it weighs 5.4 lb (2.4 kg), is 25 in (640 mm) long, and 2.25 in (57 mm) in diameter. The warhead weighs about 1 lb (450 gr) and employs the Explosively Formed Projectile (EFP) effect, made to penetrate before detonating. It is powered by a small rocket motor that gives it a range exceeding 2 mi (3.2 km), making it safer and more accurate than rocket propelled grenades (RPGs). The missile is directed to its target by either an electro-optical (EO) or semi-active laser (SAL) seeker; the EO camera is similar to a basic cellphone camera, containing a 1-megapixel video camera that allows the shooter to select the area to engage in a fire-and-forget mode. The EO seeker cannot operate at night, so the SAL would have to be used. A third targeting mode is inertial, meaning the user can “snap and shoot” at a target without needing to lock on out to 200 meters. Both the Spike missile and reusable launcher each cost $5,000 and weigh 10 lb (4.5 kg) loaded, compared to 49 lb (22 kg) for a Javelin missile and fire control unit. It has an unusual development history, being developed in house, quickly, at low cost, in response to a “rapid development capabilities” (RDC) program. Consequently the government now owns the design and can be assembled by contractors with no prior missile manufacturing experience and uses Commercial Off the Shelf (COTS) components. It is included in the FY2017 Navy budget along with Griffin and Javalin as program element 3342: “Griffin Missile” intended to develop and deliver Counter-Swarm Small Boat defense capabilities for the Surface Fleet. (It is also interesting to see that this program still anticipates the use of the Griffin missile system (GMS) by the LCS even though the Long Bow Hellfire has already been selected to arm these ships.) The missile is reportedly also effective against UAVs, helicopters, and some general aviation aircraft, so it should offer a degree of defense against attacks using these types of platforms. This could get interesting. I can see a pair of these mounted on a fixed-wing drone and used for helicopter hunting. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:34:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryI scored a 4. Not bad!
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:58:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agillig: I scored a 4. Not bad! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By agillig: I scored an 8. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. Nobody is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. And Russia is starting to get their s*** together better than they were. How do y'all really think this ends? Edited because I can't type. With Russia’s collapse. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 3:43:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: But, do they have money for startup of small/small-ish electric motor production for sUAS? Do they have money for US production of sUAS avionics like speed controllers? How about lithium battery production for sUAS? If sUAS are going to be part of the future of warfare (something I've been literally saying for more than 20 years), then we need to have domestic production of those things at scale at an "affordable" cost. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
if a U.S. war with Russia or China ever went nuclear.
• Armor-piercing joint air-to-surface standoff missile • Tomahawk land attack missile that is the U.S. Navy’s weapon of choice • The Harpoon missile that the Ukrainians have used in the Black Sea.
microelectronics, and seekers for munitions have been major bottlenecks. But, do they have money for startup of small/small-ish electric motor production for sUAS? Do they have money for US production of sUAS avionics like speed controllers? How about lithium battery production for sUAS? If sUAS are going to be part of the future of warfare (something I've been literally saying for more than 20 years), then we need to have domestic production of those things at scale at an "affordable" cost. I don't know but those are some pretty good questions to be asking. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 3:55:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3Florks]
[#26]
Let me see if I can make this link work
https://youtu.be/PCrAve7ynhw?si=-AFdyP944mpVe4FT ETA: I guess hotlink8ng didn't work. Jus copy pasta if you are on a PC or hold on it on you phone. It's about a subject near and dear to our heats....that we are waiting for videos of it self destructing
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:03:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3Florks: Let me see if I can make this link work https://youtu.be/PCrAve7ynhw?si=-AFdyP944mpVe4FT ETA: I guess hotlink8ng didn't work. Jus copy pasta if you are on a PC or hold on it on you phone. It's about a subject near and dear to our heats....that we are waiting for videos of it self destructing  Warfare Innovations: Russia's Turtle Tanks || Peter Zeihan |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:06:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3Florks]
[#28]
Thanks Capta, how do I hotlink off my phone?
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:08:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: With Russia’s collapse. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. Nobody is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. And Russia is starting to get their s*** together better than they were. How do y'all really think this ends? Edited because I can't type. With Russia’s collapse. But the Russian government will just bleed their population dry as much as they have to and keep on passing more Draconian laws to send people to the gulag if necessary. Putin will become Stalin if he has to and just find new more creative ways to force the population outside of the cities to participate in this war. And they will mobilize their industry to create more and more and more tanks if they have to. I think Putin will just keep on doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. Russia has a history of this stuff. And apparently the Chinese are okay with helping them. And north korea. And iran. I don't know how we can force them to collapse. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:16:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: But the Russian government will just bleed their population dry as much as they have to and keep on passing more Draconian laws to send people to the gulag if necessary. Putin will become Stalin if he has to and just find new more creative ways to force the population outside of the cities to participate in this war. And they will mobilize their industry to create more and more and more tanks if they have to. I think Putin will just keep on doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. Russia has a history of this stuff. And apparently the Chinese are okay with helping them. And north korea. And iran. I don't know how we can force them to collapse. Oh he will but the ethnic minorties who are republics and countries of their own may rebel. There is also Georgia and Chechnya issue. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:41:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: But the Russian government will just bleed their population dry as much as they have to and keep on passing more Draconian laws to send people to the gulag if necessary. Putin will become Stalin if he has to and just find new more creative ways to force the population outside of the cities to participate in this war. And they will mobilize their industry to create more and more and more tanks if they have to. I think Putin will just keep on doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. Russia has a history of this stuff. And apparently the Chinese are okay with helping them. And north korea. And iran. I don't know how we can force them to collapse. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. Nobody is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. And Russia is starting to get their s*** together better than they were. How do y'all really think this ends? Edited because I can't type. With Russia’s collapse. But the Russian government will just bleed their population dry as much as they have to and keep on passing more Draconian laws to send people to the gulag if necessary. Putin will become Stalin if he has to and just find new more creative ways to force the population outside of the cities to participate in this war. And they will mobilize their industry to create more and more and more tanks if they have to. I think Putin will just keep on doubling down and doubling down and doubling down. Russia has a history of this stuff. And apparently the Chinese are okay with helping them. And north korea. And iran. I don't know how we can force them to collapse. There are IMO three reasons why Russia can’t just slide down into a super-North-Korea status. 1)Russia is not a relatively homogenous state like NK. It’s a polyglot Empire with significant ethnic tensions, even before this war. These tensions are also being exacerbated by Russia’s empowerment of its hyper-nationalist constituency in order to support the war in Ukraine. The negative consequences of this policy are only beginning. 2)Russia has turned an optional/luxury war into a literally existential war by doubling/redoubling/reredoubling down. Leave aside irrelevant arguments like “international condemnation”. Russia has burned up half its Soviet legacy and will never be able to rebuild it. They’ve lost 500K, and another 2 million moved abroad never to return. They’re running a Soviet-style war on half the population and a gutted DIB. They’re desperately refurbing T62s and T72s instead of building the next generation of competitive designs. Russia is weak and gets weaker every day. The perception of strength plus the actual strength to destroy any internal challege kept Russia together internally and kept China from sniffing at the Far East. That is going away. 3)Russia has a lot of stuff other people want, and given a perception of weakness, will be prepared to take. China is the most likely, but not the only one. Turkey will be looking to forge profitable relationships with the “turkic” central asian republics. Ukraine will want reparations that probably include Rostov-on-Don and more, giving them control over all Russian exports through the Black Sea. Finland and Poland both have territorial claims. The US could easily eye the Russian Far East as a counterplay to China. Game of Thrones rules. You play the game of Empire, and you win or you die. Russia is the steak on the table right now. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:41:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#32]
Not guaranteed to happen but keep an eye on this next month
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-03/g-7-eyes-plan-on-us-led-50-billion-aid-package-for-ukraine  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:48:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 3Florks: Thanks Capta, how do I hotlink off my phone? Just hit the “share” button on youtube, copy the link, and use the Youtube button at the top of the post. It looks like a “Play” button. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:58:17 PM EDT
[#34]
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:10:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: US declared threats for the last decade has China at #1 so if things kicked off the Pacific would supersede Ukraine. The last 2 Presidents declared they would not allow Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. The public isn’t gonna like Operation Iranian Freedom but this time unlike with Saddam it’s not the US making claims about Iran nukes it’s United Nations inspectors plus neither Biden or Trump would be risking losing a 3rd term as President at most Congress would flip in 2 years so that’s another possible region superseding Ukraine in US declared policy. There’s also other possibilities that would not super cede Europe but would or could tax and overstretch the US. Ukraine now has a respite but counting on eternal US aid and assistance may not be prudent. Plus monitor governments like Italy to see how they do in elections. Japan and South Korea government just had a parliamentary flip flop with some South Korean factions pushing the anti China South Korean President to make nice with Xi Jinping and ignore Taiwan https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/04/c7fb9e7347ac-voting-underway-for-3-by-elections-in-japans-lower-house.html https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_3888_jpeg-3204550.JPG https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/south-koreas-president-talks-to-opposition-about-cooperation-after-his-party-was-routed-in-election/amp_articleshow/109687897.cms Seems to me my answer would be, “There’s the border. Walk on over to NK if you can’t support Taiwan.” |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:13:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: The US could easily eye the Russian Far East as a counterplay to China. What do you mean by this? You're saying you think the US would take territory and expand Alaska? |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:18:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1cheapshot: Seems to me my answer would be, “There’s the border. Walk on over to NK if you can’t support Taiwan.” Like our Democrats South Korea has their equivalent “sunshine” party that thinks kissing North Korean and China ass will bring peace and stability to the Korean Peninsula. They lost the Presidency but in this recent election regained some equivalent of our Congress seats. They’re nagging the current ROK President to cave in |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:44:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It is way too late.. this should have been done no less than a year ago. Russia and China immediately knew they were on a WW2 level production requirement and we're acting like it's situation normal, despite many of us yelling that shit needs to be address RFN. Two years ago  Pretend Russia never invaded Ukraine.... We'd still be way behind where we need to be to deter China. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:05:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Does Europe have the money and industry to outperform Russia if they all got on the same team and got on with it?
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MD, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:06:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MKSheppard]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: So this has been going on for a while. The battle lines are static. Nobody is advancing. Ukraine cannot keep this up unless they have a lot of support. And Russia is starting to get their s*** together better than they were. How do y'all really think this ends. Collapse of the Russian Federation as it's currently constituted. The Russians are pretty much reaching the end in sight for their huge cold war stockpile -- AFV stockpiles are down to 18-24 months left, remember: 1.) Russia needs to keep token forces elsewhere (West to "deter" NATO, East to keep China from getting ideas about Siberia, Sakhalin to keep the Japanese off there, etc), so not every AFV can be sent to Ukraine. 2.) The Russians have already plundered (and lost) almost all of the easily regeneratable AFVs. What's left is the stuff that's been sitting for 20 years open to the elements. 3.) Their major factory that's been doing refurbs of IFVs just got flooded out. 4.) If they aren't running low on AFVs, why are they using Golf Carts and T-62s to attack right now?  While Russia can keep feeding about 200K men each year into the meat kube factory in Ukraine (that's how much they conscript each year) indefinitely; the ongoing kubing is going to have really bad long term effects about 20 years down the line. Ukraine is also suffering from Meat Kubing, but for Ukraine, it's an existential fight; survival is the objective. For Russia, this is a war of choice, so... The only "big" thing that I can see happening in 2024 so far is the Kerch Bridge being dropped the first week the F-16s arrive; followed by a long attritional campaign turfing out and killing Russian forces in Crimea, now that their major logistics line was cut. A.) Yes, I know the Russians are building railways to Crimea, but those lines are within GMRLS-ER range. B.) Yes, I know about the Black Sea Fleet -- but the majority of the BSF's Landing Ships have been sunk, damaged, or forced to retreat -- so they can't use ships to make up for the loss of the bridge. There's not going to be a big new AFU offensive this year unless there's a total Russian collapse in Crimea; because AFU is still recovering/regenerating from last year's summer offensive. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:09:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: It is way too late.. this should have been done no less than a year ago. Russia and China immediately knew they were on a WW2 level production requirement and we're acting like it's situation normal, despite many of us yelling that shit needs to be address RFN. Two years ago Pretend Russia never invaded Ukraine.... We'd still be way behind where we need to be to deter China. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It is way too late.. this should have been done no less than a year ago. Russia and China immediately knew they were on a WW2 level production requirement and we're acting like it's situation normal, despite many of us yelling that shit needs to be address RFN. Two years ago Pretend Russia never invaded Ukraine.... We'd still be way behind where we need to be to deter China. I would argue that without Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the US would still be pretending everything was fine. The US is at the 1939 point now. The S has not HTF yet, but it might, and the reality is starting to set in. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:24:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Does Europe have the money and industry to outperform Russia if they all got on the same team and got on with it? Easily. They have something like 20x Russia’s GDP. I think you can make a good case that they already are everywhere but 155 production, and next year they probably will exceed that as well. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:26:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Does Europe have the money and industry to outperform Russia if they all got on the same team and got on with it? Yeah. Europe and the US could kick the ever living shit out of Russia in production. We got way bigger population. NATO is 75% of the world's economy. Much more talented work forces. It seems like there is a huge leadership vacuum. I dunno... maybe NATO needs an "Arsenal Zsar". With broad powers to coordinate arms production all along NATO countries. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:51:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: What do you mean by this? You're saying you think the US would take territory and expand Alaska? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CleverNickname: Originally Posted By Capta: The US could easily eye the Russian Far East as a counterplay to China. What do you mean by this? You're saying you think the US would take territory and expand Alaska? I think that in a new world which the Russians themselves created, it will be a scramble for (formerly Russian) resources the likes of which hasn’t been seen since the 18th Century scramble for the resources of the New World. Who gets the resources/who is denied the resources? These are the questions of the next century. I said a long time ago that IMO our long-term plan is to maneuver China and Russia into conflict over the Russian far East, because the last thing we want is for China to benefit from Russia weakness. China will bite off something eventually, Russia will declare war, and we’ll support Russia against China, for a price. So will Europe. We should be able to get them to do plenty of damage to each other, then we clean up. 
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:58:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Lest anyone forget a single M30A1 GMLRS rocket delivers 182,000 BB's-of-Death.
The "ring of dust puffs" is deceiving.  |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 7:02:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doc540: Lest anyone forget a single M30A1 GMLRS rocket delivers 182,000 BB's-of-Death. The "ring of dust puffs" is deceiving. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/183309/image_2024-05-03_175815823-3204713.png I had some moron on reddit arguing with me that a GMLRS rocket was a dud because the target didn’t blow up hollywood-style. I posted the test footage. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 7:15:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Brok3n]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I think that in a new world which the Russians themselves created, it will be a scramble for (formerly Russian) resources the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 18th Century scramble for the resources of the New World. Who gets the resources/who is denied the resources? These are the questions of the next century. I said a long time ago that IMO our long-term plan is to maneuver China and Russia into conflict over the Russian far East, because the last thing we want is for China to benefit from Russia weakness. China will bite off something eventually, Russia will declare war, and we'll support Russia against China, for a price. So will Europe. We should be able to get them to do plenty of damage to each other, then we clean up. I have also suggested this as well. It's the best strategy to pursue but instead our bumbling "leadership" has pushed the Axis closer than further away. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 7:22:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I had some moron on reddit arguing with me that a GMLRS rocket was a dud because the target didn’t blow up hollywood-style. I posted the test footage. Trust me, I know the feeling |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 7:24:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArmyInfantryVet]
[#49]
 The game-changing military capabilities of SpaceX's STARSHIP This could really keep China up awake at night. 
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Posted: 5/3/2024 7:50:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: I have also suggested this as well. It's the best strategy to pursue but instead our bumbling "leadership" has pushed to the Axis closer than further away. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By Capta: I think that in a new world which the Russians themselves created, it will be a scramble for (formerly Russian) resources the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 18th Century scramble for the resources of the New World. Who gets the resources/who is denied the resources? These are the questions of the next century. I said a long time ago that IMO our long-term plan is to maneuver China and Russia into conflict over the Russian far East, because the last thing we want is for China to benefit from Russia weakness. China will bite off something eventually, Russia will declare war, and we'll support Russia against China, for a price. So will Europe. We should be able to get them to do plenty of damage to each other, then we clean up. I have also suggested this as well. It's the best strategy to pursue but instead our bumbling "leadership" has pushed to the Axis closer than further away. My thought is, don’t mistake the Russian-Chinese relationship as an “alliance” or that they have gotten “closer.” China is doing what benefits China. This is a point I mentioned a week or two ago. Lets say that we’re correct in believing that China is providing low-to-moderate levels of assistance. They likely “gave permission” for North Korea to supply artillery shells sufficient for 6-9 months of consumption, getting Russia through a tight spot. They have provided DIB assistance to help them with production/refurbishment of existing kit in return (allegedly) for high-tech exchange. All this has done is enable Russia to keep shoveling men and material into Ukraine while convincing themselves that just a bit more will win. And every day they get weaker and lose far more than they can produce. They keep doing it in part because China helps them stay in the war, but no more than that. And from the other side, the west gives Ukraine enough assistance to keep Russia from winning but not enough to defeat them. Both the West and China are taking actions with precisely the same effect on Russia. This is a big tell. Who benefits from Russia grinding itself to powder in Ukraine? That’s right, China. And us. I don’t think China has any illusions about using Russia to grind down the West, because they aren’t. Nothing relevant against China is being used up in Ukraine, and they know it. That’s why I think China’s game with Russia is directed at Russia, not the West. There’s an anecdote from Russian gulag memoirs. When people tried to escape from a gulag in the middle of nowhere Siberia, they did it as a group of three prisoners. Two who actually had the strength and endurance to survive the elements and escape, and a third known as “the sandwich.” When the sandwich died, they ate him and kept going. The third guy never knew he was the sandwich, until the end. He was literally a self-carrying food source. Russia has not yet figured out that they’re the sandwich. |
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