Some will, some won't. That's always the answer with humans.

I know the internet would be really boring if all OPs would ask themselves their question, and then answer it themselves with the known "Well, some will and some won't". Wouldn't be able to generalize and stereotype, though.

I personally know 4 women below 40 that have had IVF at least once, and have no kids....two are under 30.  I think that this generation has REALLY been lied to about "do you, then have kids when you're ready".  Thankfully other demographics are pumping out kids as fast as medicaid will allow.

We all get to live with choices we regret. People should be able to decide at any point in time once reaching adulthood that they want sterilized, and they should be able to get that surgery.

Maybe. Maybe not. They’ll always have the child free men to keep them company.

Besides, having kids doesn’t mean that won’t happen anyway.

this.

the data is pretty clear. you really need to be having kids in your 20's, no later than 30-32.

My wife and i waited till late 30s to have kids. We needed to be financially stable first. We were blessed in that it literally took us a month of trying each time and bam she was pregnant. If we hadnt been so lucky i guess we would have adopted eventually.
My SIL is of the midset that she doesnt ever want kids and idoubt she is capable of regret. She has yet to be wrong about anything. But i support her in that decision because she could have a chance at being the worst parent ever if she did have kids. This brings me to my point... the liberal twats that dont want kids are a blessing. Its the liberal twats that do have kids that we should worry about

I’m not sure why this is confusing-

Humans are generally built to meet and marry from about 18-23…kids being born before 25.  This works because of their health, youth, and the time the parents have to get them raised while young enough to still be fit when the child reaches adulthood.  

We can deviate from that…with consequences.

Idiocracy wasn't supposed to be a documentary

I know 4 couples from my earlier years who adopted 2-digit children (10 years old or older)

All 4 couples regretted it later

2 of the couples got "Happy Hour" adoptions, they got to adopt and raise their own grandchildren, after their adopted children dumped a their own babies on the parents

You should understand most old people who die of old age die alone in a nursing home.

Even if they were married and have kids.

This right here.  I worked in nursing homes for several years in the 90's.  This is what I saw most of the time.  It was very rare for someone to die surrounded by family.  Some died suddenly, but most of them we knew they didn't have long.  We'd call family and let them know mom or dad was dying.  They'd often tell us to call them when mom or dad was dead then we'd call the funeral home to come get the body.  I had a front row seat to this because I often had to clean up the body.  For many no one would come in to say their goodbyes.  It was also amazing to me how many of them had horrible relationships with their kids or other family members.

Sitting here laughing.

Don’t worry for every career minded, non child bearing woman-
There are 10 welfare rats reproducing on the baby a year program. 4 kids and 4 different baby daddy.

Funny how those who should never have children, spit them out like kittens.

Men who have kids later in life tend to live longer.

Over the past 50 years, human sperm counts have fallen by more than 50% globally.

Average testosterone levels have been declining 1% per year since the 80s and testosterone plays a critical role in sperm regulation.

Miscarriage rates have also been increasing.

There have been several studies linking our exposure to plastics as one reason.

My wife is 4'-10" She had two babies naturally. No complications or being "wrecked."  Sorry, but that just sounds vain.

I’m X.  
My wife had ours naturally at 34 &35.
Young women are spending time unnecessarily denying their biology.
It will catch up to them.  They’ve been lied to and believed it all.

Good. Now she’ll ride the cock carousel like never before.
Hope she enjoys her additional STDs.

It is pretty crazy on the dating apps.

One woman: "I'm 42, I have adult kids and don't want any more"

Next woman: "I'm 42 and really want to have kids ASAP!"

Oh you're right.   While the doctors are correct that the younger women will regret and reverse later - it's highly douche' for him to not let her decide what to do with her own body.  Didn't mean to imply otherwise. So, yes, she shouldn't have had to try and fail for 4 years like that.

Agreed, but at least with kids *someone* might be there.  

I doubt your wheelchair-van driver will be.

Sure, plenty die alone but I've also seen at least a few wiyh a room full of peoole.

Kids cost as much as you spend.
Food bills for two teen boys is way more concerning than anything before.
They do not have to be expensive.

Damn that's depressing. Not surprising, but sad. Sounds like a tough job too.

I wouldn't say the doctor is deciding what she's allowed to do with her body. The doctor is deciding what he is willing to do with his own body, and if he doesn't want to sterilize healthy young people he shouldn't be compelled or even pressured to do so IMO.

If a woman has to shop around for someone to cripple her reproductive system, so be it. That'd be a warning flag to anyone with an IQ over 80 anyway, especially considering how easy it is to find doctors willing to commit abortions, not to mention trans genital mutilation surgery and the like.

Agree with this.  I know both and current fwb is a 40s no kids career woman.  She's perfectly fine without rugrats... has traveled the world and lived a life beyond children.

It's a good point. I think to be a great parent it has to be your top priority. If you want to do all these other things in life and then have kids in your late 30s; it was clearly way down on your list of priorities.

It is also unlikely that after 15 years of independent career woman; she has much 'nurturing mother' qualities left.



All the GDers think their militant leftist children are going to care about them on their death beds...

Speaking of adopting,
I was told that I was basically supporting genocide by my SIL because I stated I would never adopt or raise someone elses kids.
Besides a direct sibling's.

She is a strong conservative, highly educated, pro science, anti-covid-vax, divorcee..

I'm 65. I have plenty of same age friends and acquaintances whose children will gladly let them die alone in the Old Folks Home.
I hear it all the time. Fact is I'm sick of hearing them whine about it.

Doesn't matter how many kids you have if they all hate you.

It's a 2-way street so it's not always the children's fault.

I love how the right in this country proclaim that we are living through the fall of Western civilization and at the same time promotes having as many children as possible.

Maybe they will get lucky and die in a vacation accident because dying old alone won't be cool on TicToc.

Being hit on by old dudes with no teeth.

There's another alternative. John Ross "Ross In Range" 2005
WARNING, WILL ROBINSON- LONG READ!

There's been a fair amount of discussion on "career women," and the value of educating our daughters so that they can succeed in the fields that were once populated only by men.  I don't fall into the "Women should just stay home and have babies" camp, because a woman shouldn't do that if she doesn't want to. I have no problem at all with women who want to climb the corporate ladder, pursue careers in traditionally male fields, etc.

   I also agree with something a woman friend said in a discussion of men and women, that an intelligent and educated woman is a better choice for a wife, both for the genes that she splits with her husband and passes along to their children, as well as being a more interesting mate to talk to and be with.

   What I see as the fundamental problem with women pursuing careers is the near-universal assumption these women make: That they will be able to "pencil in" a suitable husband at whatever point that they decide it's time to marry and have kids.  That is a very dangerous assumption, because it's seldom true, and I'll explain why.

   Some time ago (15 years?) the Wall Street Journal had one of those human interest stories they run regularly. I wish I could dig it up to get the details exactly right, but I well remember the salient points:

   The story was about a woman, never married, who had risen to the top of some fairly big company. As I recall, it wasn't Fortune 500 size, but it was big and she had done a great job at directing the company's growth and making it successful. In the process, she herself had amassed a seven-figure net worth, with an annual income of a half-million or so.

   She was 46, as I recall, and couldn't find a suitable man to date and marry. The article chronicled her attempts to rectify this situation, including her hiring an expensive service in NYC that specialized in matching up busy executives with suitable mates.

   The service matched her up with some men, but none were much interested. This woman seemed amazed (and despondent) that the male executives the service fixed her up with (and that she was attracted to) weren't much interested in seeing her a second time. There had been a couple of men that wanted to see her again, but their incomes were a small fraction of hers and she didn't want much to do with them as she viewed them as not being successful.

   The lady theorized that the men who weren't interested were "intimidated by a strong woman," and lamented that male executives had fragile egos, and needed doormats for mates, etc. It was a fairly detailed article.

   Shortly thereafter, the letters section printed reader's responses to this article, and one guy nailed the situation dead-center.

   He said the woman was failing to see the basic economic principle of comparative advantage, on which all successful trade, commerce, and business is based. He wrote that he was surprised such a financially savvy person was apparently oblivious to what was so obvious to him.

   Comparative advantage means you are most valuable to someone who needs what you have, because without you, they can't have it. Florida can sell oranges and orange juice at a profit to people here in Missouri, even after paying shipping costs, because orange trees won't grow here, and so if we want orange juice with breakfast, we have to get it from them.

   Comparative advantage also says that you should concentrate your time and energy on that which rewards you the most highly, to the point of hiring others to do work that you may even be better at than they are.

   Example: A neurosurgeon who happens to be a world-record typist that can type 200 words per minute is still better off hiring a 60 wpm stenographer to transcribe his notes, because there are lots of stenographers who'll work for less than $20 an hour, and his time is better spent doing more neurosurgeries which pay hundreds of times that rate.

   The letter-writer's point was that the woman executive in the article was failing to grasp this economic fact. The male executives weren't "afraid of strong women," they weren't interested because this woman didn't offer them anything they didn't already have.  They already had lots of money. They already had financial and business success.

   The letter-writer pointed out that the men who had shown interest were the ones that were younger and hadn't had the business success that she had. They were attracted to her because she offered what they didn't have. Unfortunately, the woman executive didn't grasp this, and for some reason didn't see that her situation made her much more attractive to pool boys than to Lee Iacocca.

   This is the great tragedy of feminism: The so-called women's movement has encouraged women to get specialized education and pursue careers right out of school. Feminists have said over and over that women can succeed at any business endeavor a man can.  THIS IS TRUE.  But what makes this message so damaging:  Saying it over and over to young women has distracted them from remembering (or realizing) that they have a tremendous comparative advantage over men. This comparative advantage is their ability to have children, and it exists for only part of their lives.

   If a woman doesn't particularly want to bear children, fine. But almost all of the young women I meet do have a strong maternal instinct and say they definitely want kids. Why don't they realize that their youth and ability to bear children are expiring assets? Why are they doing what you can do at any time (work in a business) during the only time they possess those valuable assets?

   What if a recent college graduate who was the star pitcher for his college baseball team told you that he intended to play Major League professional baseball, but not until after he'd gotten his law degree and had established a successful law practice? You'd think he was crazy, yet women do the equivalent every day.

   Here's a radical idea for the women who want to "have it all": Do it in the logical order, which is the reverse of what you've been doing.

   Whether or not a woman's youth and fertility are her most valuable assets, they are inarguably expiring assets. They are like a $200 voucher for a private eating establishment that declines by $10 every month you don't use it. If you don't ever want to eat at that place, fine, let the voucher expire.

   But if one of your life's goals is to fully experience that eating establishment, use your voucher early.

   There are women I know personally who do "have it all," in both my and their opinion. In all cases, these women married and had their children early, i.e. youngest child born when the mother was 25 or younger. Once all the children were in school, these women entered the work force, at least part-time. When the kids were old enough to start looking out for themselves, i.e. in college or at least driving, the mothers became serious about a career.

   In one case, the woman went to law school and is now a successful lawyer. Because she had her kids early, her body recovered easily, and at age 49 she has two grandchildren and looks like one of those hot 30-year-old woman lawyers on a TV series. Getting her law degree at a later age didn't hurt her skill level or ability to find work: she was my lawyer in my divorce and she couldn't have been better. I think her husband is one of the luckiest men alive.

   Another woman had her first child at age 19 and then twins two or three years later. When the kids were all in school, she started working part-time. At one point she worked in a consignment shop, and felt the owner was making some bad business decisions. At around age 45, with the kids out of college, she opened her own consignment shop. Now, a little over a decade later, she's making almost $200,000 a year and looks great.

   A third had two children by age 24.  After they were in high school, when she was 38 or so, she got her real estate agent's license.  Now she's about 55 or so and making well over $100,000 a year.  Do I need to tell you she is great-looking?

Which of the career paths listed below makes more sense?:

1.  Focus on career right out of school, have recreational sex with pleasant male companions your own age, be on the success track for 10-15 years, then panic when you realize you want children but you don't want to derail your career, your looks are starting to fade compared to the twentysomethings, there aren't any men that seem interested in marrying you, and in any event, you're running out of time,
or
2.  After high school or during college, focus on finding a man about 10 years older who has established himself in the last decade and who wants a family.  Use your youth, looks, and fertility to find the best possible man for the role of Husband and Father.  Have children at a young age, soon after you finish your schooling, while you have lots of energy and your body will recover quickly.  Be there for the kids when they need you, and let your husband do the financial lifting.  Be good to both the kids and your husband, and be thinking about what your career dreams are while caring for your family.  Talk to your husband about these dreams.  Tell him you don't want to just sit around the house at age 40-45.  Then go after your dream, once the kids are of majority age.  You've still got a few good decades left, plenty of time for career success.

   Many women who pursue careers find they don't like it nearly as much as they expected.  Far fewer women have children and then wish they hadn't.  Why not do the kid thing first, while your body is primed for it, and start a career later in life?

   You can start a new business at any age.  I started a new venture at age 46--I set up a shooting school.  Now, two years later, it's very successful and continues to grow, showing every indication of becoming the major force in my regional market.

   Think a shooting school doesn't count, because it's not going to be big enough to be a real "career"?  Then try this one: A 65-year-old man living on Social Security with a used car and a love of cooking drove around the Southeast in the 1950s, cooking samples of food to persuade restaurant owners to buy his special blend of seasonings.  When he made enough money from spice sales and found a financial backer, he opened his own little restaurant, selling one kind of food made with his blend of seasonings.  It was successful, so he licensed others to open similar establishments.  When he died 25 years later at age 90, Colonel Harlan Sanders left behind his legacy: Kentucky Fried Chicken, now KFC.

   A man who wants a family can't have it without a woman.  He would prefer a young, fertile one.  She will have the energy to keep up with kids, and her body will recover quickly from pregnancy and childbirth.  Men know that a woman's sex drive and looks decline.  We'd like to start with one where the decline hasn't already gone on for a couple decades.

   A woman who wants both a career and children faces a number of problems if she gets on the career track first, and intends to marry and have kids later.  First, since men are good at earning money, we don't much care about your income level--that old comparative advantage thing.  We want your youth, looks, and fertility--we've already got the money thing covered.  Get to be 35 and still single and you'll find that the men who want to get married want to do so because they want to have kids.  Thus, they want someone in the peak of her reproductive years, not the end of them.  Second, if you do find a husband, becoming a mother around age 40 means being an old woman for most of your children's adult life.  When your kids grow up, wouldn't it be nice to be young enough to still do active things with them for a decade or two?  And what if after 12-15 years of the career track, you realize you're burnt out?  Now what?  Quit work to get married?  What sane man wants a 35-year-old woman who has decided she doesn't like working?

   Last of all, if you marry a man 10-15 years older, and start your career after the kids are grown or at least able to drive, your husband is likely to be very supportive of your dreams.  Men are very loyal to those who are good to us.  If you've been a great wife and mother, we are going to applaud your wanting to get out of the house and bring in some income.  We're going to be thrilled if you replace some or all of the family savings that were drained when the tuition bills came due.  We're going to be proud of you making a financial success of yourself, so that you now truly "have it all."  We'd love to retire and play golf or whatever and admire your success.

   And if you decide the career track isn't for you after a few years (or a decade), we won't be upset.  You can quit at age 45 or 50 and do something part-time and your husband will never have any complaints.  You let him have a wonderful family, were a great wife, and a wonderful mother to his children.

   But going the career track first is very dangerous in that it completely wastes much or all of a woman's major asset of fertility and youth.

   Angela Fiori put it succinctly in her excellent piece Feminism's Third Wave:
Feminism proclaimed that for women to be fulfilled, they had to adopt the career ambitions of workaholic men, the sexual promiscuity of John F. Kennedy, and the cynicism of Gloria Steinem (the pre-married one, that is).

Can you think of any demographic group other than women who would have bought into this prescription for complete disaster and then cried "victim" when the Bunker Buster of Inevitable Biology crashed through the roof and blew up in their faces? Think Wile E. Coyote. No, think of someone much dumber.

   It's obviously too late for any childless career women out there in their 30s.  The people that need to understand are today's high school- and college-age women who want a career and a family.

   If you have multiple goals, and achieving one of them requires that you do it before a certain expiration date, work on that one first.  Duh.
                                                             John Ross 8/30/2005

Western Civilization will not persist without Westerners having more children.  Those two things are entirely consistent.  It's a real crisis for the West right now.  And Western Civilization is at its core Christian civilization, and Christianity tells us to be fruitful and multiply.  Westerners having kids is entirely consistent with most of the body of Rightist thought.

This… rationalization to justify self

They only look happy. Biological programming can’t be defeated. They travel and do all those things to fill the void they’ve created by denying their biological purpose. One day they will be old, useless and have nobody that wants them or loves them.

As a data point, the vast majority of childless women I know are in no way unhappy with their decision to remain childless.

The only one I know who has gone to great lengths to have children wasn’t childless by choice. She married in her 20s and simply struggled with fertility issues. The ones who chose to forego children span the age range from their 20s to their 70s, and none of them have ever freaked out. They just contently go about their business and enjoy the life they’ve chosen.

You insisting people you’ve never met must be secretly miserable even though they show no signs of it, simply because they made a decision you don’t agree with is sort of weird.

Incidentally, I find your screen name and religious affiliation amusing in light of your last sentence there. Why do you suppose someone who doesn’t have children will be useless, unwanted, or unloved?

Life is complicated and with new technologies it only gets more complicated.  A few consistencies will always be there.  Accidental pregnancies will always be a factor, there are fewer but it is still the majority of pregnancies today.  Genetic testing of embryos has gotten better.  My gf's daughter recently went through IVF had 15 eggs fertilized, selected 3 of the most viable eggs and had a healthy daughter.  She was 31.  Not sure why she had problems conceiving, I suspect it was low sperm count but not certain.  It was interesting watching her Facebook updates because she is Mormon and I thought the fact that she had 15 fertilized eggs would have raised more eyebrows but apparently not.  You're correct about the age and downs connection, that's been well known for a long time but they are able to test embryos before implantations and I suspect very few are implanted.  It will be interesting how the courts decide on embryos.  There is also a consistent amount of men who chase after younger women and end up with children in their 50's.  It is just one of those statistics that few talk about but is always going to be there.  Vascectomies are becoming more popular but last I read the majority of men are opposed to them (this is dated however.).

My sister chose not to have children, she is 52 and has had no regrets.  She is happy being auntie and traveling the world.  My daughter (33) is on the fence.  Her husband is a hard pass due to his family history of violence.  It's probably a good choice, they have to breathe into a bag if one of their dogs sneezes.  I youngest (25) says he will eat any children he has.  I tell him to wear two condoms.  My eldest would love to have a wife and family one day.  My step daughters (35, 33, 30) have 6 children (3, 1, 2) and will probably have more (hopefully not the middle one, she's a horrible mother.). So who knows?

My family 5 siblings, 2, 4, 3, 0, 4, 1 Grandchildren - no great grandchildren.
My husband's family:  2 siblings, 2, 3, 3  11 great grandchildren

Interesting enough on my grandmother's wedding license she was labeled a spinster -- she was 25 and a school teacher.  Times certainly have changed.

We didn’t get married or have kids until our mid 30’s. My wife got pregnant within after her 2nd cycle after we started “trying”, same with the second kid. Kind of would have preferred the trying stage last a bit longer. Although she was becoming a bit of task master when it came to sex.

Idk we had friends in way better shape that were much healthier that took a year for them to get pregnant with their 2nd.

Seems like most of the people in our social circle(early through late 30’s) did the two under two thing including us.




I’m just not seeing all the clot shot fertility doomer talk on here playing out in real life.

@NotIssued you should visit nursing homes.  They are dying alone.  Less than 25% of our elderly are visited regularly.  It is overwhelming.  

Agreed, I would feel like a failure if one of my daughters tells me that when they grow up and I would certainly be too embarrassed to post about it.

that's just reinforcing the fact that we all have a few screws loose.

That sounds pathetic.  I'm 37.  Every spinster I know that's over 35 and has a lifestyle mirroring what you described are all fucking basket cases, lonely, and depressed contrary to what their IG posts show.

That is probably true for most women, but not all.

Many have no mothering instincts and never get them.

The reverse is true too, as young women are pressured to have kids when maybe they shouldn't. I've also met women who regretted having kids...

The right answer is teach young people the pros and cons of each decision and let them decide. But nobody wants to do that. Both sides just want to indoctrinate.

That's kind of what I see.  But maybe he has funner circles than you and I do.  I suppose I do know some who are doing just fine and are happy not having kids.  But deep down, over a little wine, almost all of them kinda wish, at times, you know, I probaly would have been a great mom...  

That said, I know PLENTY of people with kids who are miserable.  And often end up with kids that weren't really worth it.  Not that anyone can ever say that, least of all themselves - but I've seen plenty of people bleed dry of money, heart, energy, and soul - only to end up with worthless kids who don't give 2 shits about their parents.  There definately no guarntee's either way, I'll say that!

So now she knows what most men feel like. Lol

I can't imagine how horrible that is going to be for some people when it's time to pay the piper.