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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:46:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#2]
When you calculate Kinetic Energy Velocity is squared not Mass...
Supers in mine! |
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USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 3:13:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 3:56:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kingdead: What is the penetration of drywall with subs vs supers? I thought big, heavy, and slow projectiles are way worse for over penetration in drywall. Isn't 556 from a long barrel actually much more forgiving about over penetration through drywall? Anything that is going to do a better than piss poor job of stopping someone is going to go through a lot of drywall. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:02:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thenning: I would be worried what a jury would think.  Can’t think of anything I’d be less worried about when picking ammo for a home defense gun. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:04:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lilMAC25]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Remyrw: Ditto on both parts. My round of choice for defense is the tac tx, it's a proven performer and is still not deafening indoors. While super silent squirrel stuff is fun, even the best of it does not have the same results. That said, if you're GOING to go heavy and slow, the Lehigh ME stuff gets my vote. I just can't see myself ever spending that much. Gotta be very sure of where you're pointing though, LD stuff doesn't tend to stop unless it hits soft stuff. It's pretty barrier blind. In my situation that's great, but I know that's fairly rare. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Remyrw: Originally Posted By Subpar: Why not? I wouldn't use 220 gr. though. Lehigh defense or SubX would be my choice for subs. I use Barnes 110 tac-tx in my bedside larp gun. Gotta be very sure of where you're pointing though, LD stuff doesn't tend to stop unless it hits soft stuff. It's pretty barrier blind. In my situation that's great, but I know that's fairly rare. I wouldn’t mind have the first round being suppressed subs, but after that I want fuck you die ammo in my HD gun. On top of that, if I’m putting my dot on a dude breaking into my house; he’s getting 3-5 rounds minimum anyways. 
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:20:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. I want a 6.8 SPCII, but $$. 🤷🏼♂️ |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:20:29 PM EDT
[#8]
I eel perfectly fine running Sub X subs suppressed for bedside gun. It's the wholes reason I went with 300. Less flash and bang, much less recoil, all of those things keep me oriented in the fight inside of my house. I'm grabbing another mag(supers) or gun if I have to go out. If I have to pop them in the face or nuts, then so be it. 300 supers are defeated pretty easily unless they're running 3A.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:21:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. @mban2 |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 4:43:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: panthermark]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. That most likely comes down to two popular loads. Barnes 110gr Tac-tx   and Sig 120gr SBR or HT (Same bullet)    .300 AAC gel test: Sig 120 gr HT solid copper bullet Maybe a few folks running Lehigh 115gr Controlled Chaos? (Doubt)   .300 AAC Lehigh 115 gr Controlled Chaos: is it a gimmick? |
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MOZ
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:05:49 PM EDT
[#11]
I use 120 Tac TX with an SDN-6.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: @mban2 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: Originally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. @mban2 Yep. Leheigh maximum expansion and 110gr TTSX work great |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:40:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: I want a 6.8 SPCII, but $$. 🤷🏼♂️ @lilMAC25 get both???   Attached Fileand OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:47:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: @lilMAC25 get both??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478727/wall_5-1-2024_jpg-3204652.JPG and OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I want a 6.8 SPCII, but $$. 🤷🏼♂️ @lilMAC25 get both??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478727/wall_5-1-2024_jpg-3204652.JPG and OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me  All my funds are going here….  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:48:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: All my funds are going here…. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/71141/IMG_4136_jpeg-3204655.JPG just roll it into the home loan! |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:53:42 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: @lilMAC25 get both??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478727/wall_5-1-2024_jpg-3204652.JPG and OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me Your garage is considerably cooler than mine |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 5:58:31 PM EDT
[#17]
In my opinion, a can + supers is worth the slight hearing damage. Trying to 100% save your hearing comes at the cost of possibly not stopping the threat. Check out my video on rifle terminal ballistics vs handgun. In the case of 300 subs, substitute it for handgun rounds for a general idea as that is what it will be reduced to.
 Ep. 4: Home Defense - Pistol, Shotgun, or Rifle? Terminal ballistics, overpenetration, maneuvering |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:00:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: frozenny]
[#18]
double tap
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:02:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: just roll it into the home loan! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: All my funds are going here…. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/71141/IMG_4136_jpeg-3204655.JPG just roll it into the home loan! Label it “Security System.” |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:04:36 PM EDT
[#20]
if its subsonic, is under 1040 fps. It varies... but its under 1040...
You've got a 220 at 1000 fps +/-. Need an equivalent? 45 ACP. My old Hydrashock loads ran 230 grainers at 905. the 45 was a bit heavier but a tad slower. Probably a little less power, but a minor difference at best. Advantage to the 45 for pure frontal area and reliable expansion. I put the subsonic 220 load squarely in the same ball park as a 230 FMJ .45 ACP... If youre good with that, youre good with 300 subsonic... But think about it. You've just taken a decent firearm and seriously neutered it. Its a giant, long (compared to handgun) firearm that fires unreliably expanding 45 ACP equal ammo? No Thanks. I'd load 110 Barnes Tac TX or my handloaded 125 Hornady SST. Both of these are very much expanding AK 47 7.62x39 performance level |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:10:06 PM EDT
[#21]
200gr subs will work just fine, and if you don't think one .30cal hole is enough, make a bunch more.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:17:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spearweasel: 200gr subs will work just fine, and if you don't think one .30cal hole is enough, make a bunch more. No shit... Mag dump until the threat is eliminated. If I confront an intruder in my home, they're not just getting shot once... Unless I watch their head canoe. Even then I'll probably have already at least put 6 in em. I don't practice Bill Drills for nuffin. 
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:18:38 PM EDT
[#23]
190 grain Fort Scott TUI suppressed is my home defense choice, fmj that tumbles upon impact and can defeat 3a body armor.
One of these days I will test it one some piggies for some real world results but it did good in gelatin. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:35:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teller_Ulam: Originally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Supersonic copper solids in 300blk is supposed to be an absolute killer according to dudes who have used it overseas. I imagine humans are easier to kill compared to hogs. Hogs are pretty tough animals. Ive seen them shot with 12 gauge slugs, leaving a snuff can of liver laying on the ground and run off. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:37:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: Originally Posted By fargo007: Originally Posted By kel: I've shot some hogs (~150 lbs) with sub 300BLK and was not amazed by the terminal performance. Good haunch shots and the pig just looked back like "What else ya got" and took off running. Twice. Yes, there's some better rounds out there, but I decided I wasn't going to use subs for humane kills and quick stops after that. This. 300BLK is at this point well known as a very shitty round for hogs compared to just about anything else. Even supersonic. I can't believe people truly consider it for HD. Don't be silly. Supersonic .300 is extremely similar to AK ballistics. AKs have killed a lot of people. This. Where do people come up with shit like that? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:43:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Nosler180: 190 grain Fort Scott TUI suppressed is my home defense choice, fmj that tumbles upon impact and can defeat 3a body armor. One of these days I will test it one some piggies for some real world results but it did good in gelatin. I'm liking the looks of the tests on these, time to grab some. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 6:47:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bigtex84]
[#27]
I have shot the subx in gel next to the Barnes 110. It’s not even close. I will be using the 110 in mine.
ETA they also out preformed Barnes 70gr 556 and 77gr Sierra TMK |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:14:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Kind of funny that for a long time this very forum was of the mind that if a caliber didn't contain .45 it was useless.
 Not sure why the concept of maintaining hearing and situational awareness in a gunfight isn't important, considering suppressors are standard in both military and LEO circles now. Also still wondering where all these home invaders with body armor are. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 8:59:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: Kind of funny that for a long time this very forum was of the mind that if a caliber didn't contain .45 it was useless. Not sure why the concept of maintaining hearing and situational awareness in a gunfight isn't important, considering suppressors are standard in both military and LEO circles now. Also still wondering where all these home invaders with body armor are. There is a really obvious answer, but you don't see it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 9:04:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Barnes 110 TTSX. Just plain works.
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/3/2024 9:07:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Do 300BLK subs cycle as reliably as a blowback .45 ACP and expand into ashtrays?
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Posted: 5/3/2024 9:34:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bandhunter]
[#32]
Keep subs in mine at the house. Two family members in a room at a diagonal from master doorway. House on half acre but neighbors too close for supers imo.
Mine is set up to run suppressed subs from point blank to 150 yards with ease. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 9:41:11 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm a supers for HD also for reasons mentioned.
However, the ability to use subs as needed, if ever needed, could be extremely useful as well. |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lilMAC25]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By feetpiece: Do 300BLK subs cycle as reliably as a blowback .45 ACP and expand into ashtrays? https://i.redd.it/7ybvljklqtd61.jpg The really expensive ones do….  Lehigh Defense 194 Grain Maximum Expansion Sub-Sonic Bullet in Gel 300 BLK #Shorts Here is the Makers 200 gr solid copper expanders and Lehigh MaxEx (in uncalibrated clear gel). I still personally would and do trust supers way more for HD/SD. The difference in damage from rifle velocity rounds vs subsonic rounds is a thing. Also, a .45 in an AR doesn’t afford you the opportunity to go from subsonic ash trays to intermediate rifle rounds with a mag change (or even in the same mag). |
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:05:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Subs are neat but supers have the energy.
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:39:00 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By southerncross: Subs are neat but supers have the energy. E=1/2MV^2
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Posted: 5/3/2024 11:40:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rat_Patrol: I start to worry more and more about defeating body armor, so velocity for me. important possibility these days |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:42:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: @lilMAC25 get both??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478727/wall_5-1-2024_jpg-3204652.JPG and OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5L33P3R: Originally Posted By lilMAC25: I want a 6.8 SPCII, but $$. 🤷🏼♂️ @lilMAC25 get both??? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/478727/wall_5-1-2024_jpg-3204652.JPG and OP, Sellier & Bellot 110gr TXRG ammo has been great for me The dust cover caliber markings... Is that just using stencil and paint or what? Looks pretty awesome. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:53:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Missilegeek: The dust cover caliber markings... Is that just using stencil and paint or what? Looks pretty awesome. I'm guessing laser-engraving…many places do that these days, nice way to ID uppers and mags when you have a bunch of calibers. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 2:54:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macpherson: Kind of funny that for a long time this very forum was of the mind that if a caliber didn't contain .45 it was useless. Not sure why the concept of maintaining hearing and situational awareness in a gunfight isn't important, considering suppressors are standard in both military and LEO circles now. Also still wondering where all these home invaders with body armor are. Yes, suppressors have recently started to become more widely issued and used by military and leo. I don't believe the same can be said about using sub sonic ammo for general purposes and common use. Giving up and losing a huge amount of terminal ballistic performance, for minor improvements in situational awareness and communication, is a bad trade off. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:05:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By feetpiece: Do 300BLK subs cycle as reliably as a blowback .45 ACP and expand into ashtrays? https://i.redd.it/7ybvljklqtd61.jpg In my experience, PCC are not very reliable. .300 ARs are pretty reliable. Also expansion is never a given. But yeah, when it works, .300 sub expansion is pretty neat.  Loading 300 Blk - ep 32 - Maker and Lehigh Expansion Tests Rifle ballistics > pistol ballistics. It isn't even close. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 3:57:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Supers make more sense to me for defense. More velocity is more better, and suppressed they’re plenty quiet, I think.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 4:09:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoundStorm: Nothing wrong with everything already mentioned. I use S&B 200 grain subs in mine for no particular reason other than I had a bunch of it on-hand, and they are 100% reliable. 2 or 3 shots to the upper body with supers or subs will make almost anyone take the room temperature challenge. But, but, but...anything short of .577 Tyrannosaurs elephant gun and you're risking your and your families life!!  
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 4:12:11 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Burtg: Supers all the way. Some y’all need to get out and kill some things or do some reading. Rifle > 9mm which is pretty much what 300 subs try to be You should try the new expanding .300BO rounds. Pretty sure at home defense distances, this will suck pretty bad.   
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Posted: 5/4/2024 7:21:26 AM EDT
[#45]
Used to keep the first few subs and the rest supers. Then tangentially involved in a double homicide in my ‘hood where I thought to shooter was gonna come in my house. He would have been lit up with supers. Didn’t have a can on it then but does now.
300 subs are 45acp that can sometimes go through soft armor and run prettt well through AR pattern shit. 300 supers hit like 30-30 or 7.62x39 which is good enough for me. Honestly debated going to 308 but not sure that’s really needed these days. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 7:44:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MallNinja531]
[#46]
Timely thread is timely. I've always kept sub-x in mine but recently after doing some reading here and other places, I've decided to switch to supers. Picked up some of the AAC 110gr black tips (just hornady 110's with black inserts instead of red from what I understand) and am planning to test fire them this weekend.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 7:47:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frozenny: if its subsonic, is under 1040 fps. It varies... but its under 1040... You've got a 220 at 1000 fps +/-. Need an equivalent? 45 ACP. My old Hydrashock loads ran 230 grainers at 905. the 45 was a bit heavier but a tad slower. Probably a little less power, but a minor difference at best. Advantage to the 45 for pure frontal area and reliable expansion. I put the subsonic 220 load squarely in the same ball park as a 230 FMJ .45 ACP... If youre good with that, youre good with 300 subsonic... But think about it. You've just taken a decent firearm and seriously neutered it. Its a giant, long (compared to handgun) firearm that fires unreliably expanding 45 ACP equal ammo? No Thanks. I'd load 110 Barnes Tac TX or my handloaded 125 Hornady SST. Both of these are very much expanding AK 47 7.62x39 performance level The point of it is to not have a huge flash and concussion inside of a house without ear pro. It's not neutering if you have a multiplier by using subs and a can. I agree with the above statement, if you're good with a 230 gr 45, a quiet 300 with relative same power should. I can only imagine how disorienting the flash and bang from your own gun is, especially if you're in a tight corridor. In your state this might not matter much though since you can't have suppressors. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 9:08:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lilMAC25]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKaltwasser: The point of it is to not have a huge flash and concussion inside of a house without ear pro. It's not neutering if you have a multiplier by using subs and a can. I agree with the above statement, if you're good with a 230 gr 45, a quiet 300 with relative same power should. I can only imagine how disorienting the flash and bang from your own gun is, especially if you're in a tight corridor. In your state this might not matter much though since you can't have suppressors. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKaltwasser: Originally Posted By frozenny: if its subsonic, is under 1040 fps. It varies... but its under 1040... You've got a 220 at 1000 fps +/-. Need an equivalent? 45 ACP. My old Hydrashock loads ran 230 grainers at 905. the 45 was a bit heavier but a tad slower. Probably a little less power, but a minor difference at best. Advantage to the 45 for pure frontal area and reliable expansion. I put the subsonic 220 load squarely in the same ball park as a 230 FMJ .45 ACP... If youre good with that, youre good with 300 subsonic... But think about it. You've just taken a decent firearm and seriously neutered it. Its a giant, long (compared to handgun) firearm that fires unreliably expanding 45 ACP equal ammo? No Thanks. I'd load 110 Barnes Tac TX or my handloaded 125 Hornady SST. Both of these are very much expanding AK 47 7.62x39 performance level The point of it is to not have a huge flash and concussion inside of a house without ear pro. It's not neutering if you have a multiplier by using subs and a can. I agree with the above statement, if you're good with a 230 gr 45, a quiet 300 with relative same power should. I can only imagine how disorienting the flash and bang from your own gun is, especially if you're in a tight corridor. In your state this might not matter much though since you can't have suppressors. Eh, suppressed 300 BLK supers through a can won’t be hearing safe, but it’s not instant deafness like a shorty 5.56 without a can. I personally have a set of electronic hearing protection (Sordins, because I’m poor) hanging on my HD AR. At the first hint of danger, I grab the AR, pull the StopBox Chamber lock (less than 2 seconds), hit the BHO, , throw the sling over my head, and slip on my headphones as I’m heading out the door to the choke point. |
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Posted: 5/4/2024 10:28:31 AM EDT
[#49]
This thread is interesting with everyone’s take on the matter.
I recently put together a 450 BM SBR with 45 Tirant to try out with the Hornady subsonics. Here’s some manufacturer info in order of muzzle energy with test barrel length and muzzle velocity (fps). 1378 ME, 300 BLK, 110gr, Hornady V-Max Black, 16” barrel, 2375 MV 1349 ME, 300 BLK, 110gr, Barnes TAC-TX FB, 16” barrel, 2350 MV 1282 ME, 223 Rem, 55gr, Hornady V-Max Varmint Express, 24” barrel, 3240 MV 967 ME, 450 BM, 395gr, Hornady Sub-X, 20” barrel, 1050 MV 741 ME, 44 Mag, 240gr, Winchester Q420 white box JSP, 1180 MV 475 ME, 300 BLK, 194gr. Lehigh Maximum Expansion, 16” barrel, 1050 MV 465 ME, 300 BLK, 190gr, Hornady Sub-X, 16” barrel, 1050 MV 404 ME, 45acp, 230gr, Federal HST, 5” barrel, 890 MV 396 ME, 9mm, 124gr, Winchester NATO FMJ, 4” barrel, 1200 MV 326 ME, 9mm, 147gr, Federal HST, 4” barrel, 1000 MV |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/4/2024 1:40:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lilMAC25: The really expensive ones do….  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_r-rt6HM0Here is the Makers 200 gr solid copper expanders and Lehigh MaxEx (in uncalibrated clear gel). I still personally would and do trust supers way more for HD/SD. The difference in damage from rifle velocity rounds vs subsonic rounds is a thing. Also, a .45 in an AR doesn’t afford you the opportunity to go from subsonic ash trays to intermediate rifle rounds with a mag change (or even in the same mag). ^That... Lehighs are the most well known, but DAMN are they expensive. Roughly $3.00-$3.50 per trigger pull. Maker subs that is actually factor loaded (I don't reload) has been vaporware since wuflu. ----------- I'm curious about the Fort Scott 190gr ammo. I would love to see a video of it defeating IIIa. There are several vids of OTM/FMJ subs defeating lesser armor and bulletproof glass. Love this one (45 vs 300blk subs vs IIa): You don't need to watch the end results, you can instantly hear the PING, and you know that 300blk went through.  Subsonic .300 Black Out vs. Kevlar Body Armor The other one I would like to see some gel and armor tests on are the new PSA/AAC Sabre rounds. Both the 110gr black tips and their 220gr subsonic black tips. I dug this Sabre 220 out myself, and all it did was deform.  |
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