I'm probably going to catch hell for this but marking up the price of parts is bullshit. If my mechanic and myself can get the same Napa part for $150 then don't charge me $300 for the damn thing. Charge $150 with maybe a $30 delivery fee. If you're a great mechanic and a great shop I'd gladly pay a labor rate of $150-$175 an hour. Am I wrong dude? Am I wrong???

Part of the profit incentive with shops, a lot of them take it to the extreme, can’t stand shops that get the cheapest part then charge for premium parts, happens a lot because most people don’t know

 It's an Expedition,  plugs and coil packs I've replaced.  
    Thing ran good but I noticed what I think is head gasket bars leak or something in the plug wells of the driver side first two plugs.  
  I cleaned them out before replacing plugs and got a miss later and checked those plugs and I'm getting coolant in them.  
    Previous owner stuff.

I do some of my own repairs. I don't dare do internal engine and transmission repairs. No offense, It isn't that I think you should work for free. I'm sure you think you are worth it. I just can't put my house up for sale to make the first payment.

We sell at retail price but buy the parts at a discount.

I have actually seen dealers mark up their own parts before, to your point.

The kid that mows our lawn at the shop gets more per hour than I get on a $250k machine

I’m sure it is more complex.  I’ve just heard too much bad about it from otherwise extremely talented technicians. Particularly about service managers screwing them and such.  My head mechanic could rebuild a Detroit DD13 or any series 60 engine in under 30 hours. Book time is right around 40.  

When he worked at his last job, he was hired to do engines.  Then the service manager left. And he got fucked into doing electrical diagnostics. Which is a nightmare that doesn’t pay anything for book rate.


I just don’t like the idea of personal politics getting in the way of pay.  He’s on salary now and fairly, happy.

I think there is the thought they have the proper tools and can do it quickly.

But in my experience their quickness shows lack of care for the vehicle and has resulted in damages to paint and wheels. IE, OEM battery is shot, it's under warranted and the replacement is $350. Get it back and find those assholes rested the battery on the bumper and left a nice gouge.

You would think for the rates they charge, they wouldn't be so quick and careless.


I know they all lie, but I've had a dealer try to do a $3000 break job over someone mistyping a number into their tablet.

huh? i expect mechanics to send me a bill for me even asking what time i can bring my car in....

Why do gougers always feel set upon when people call them on it. Some auto mechanics are honest and some aren't, just like all the trades OP listed. People create threads when they are pissed because they just dealt with a scumbag.

I expect parts markup and healthy labor costs. I don't expect exponential costs increases above what is reasonable. MY HVAC people are usually pretty good, but I have 3 contactors that need replaced, the parts cost about $100 bucks if I buy them, and their labor should be around 80 to 120 per hour in my area. Job should only take an hour but lets give 2 hours and 100% markup on parts, and the cost is max $440. Hell I would even pay $500. They quoted me $1700, which is scumbag territory and is making me rethink who I use for my next HVAC system replacement.

Depends, if it's invoiced work, why would you buy parts then wait 30 days to get your money back for free?

5 pages of people defending why they should get shit done for free while also agreeing with OP

lmao

ETA:

People really think tools and time and perfection are free.

You got me there...

The $600 per axle brake job and $1k quote for a wheel bearing job on a FWD car was enough to get me to break out the tools.  I don’t enjoy wrenching like I used to, but fuck those prices.

On a BMW it was easy, just put it in neutral while lifted. I believe that's what we did. Actually it may had to be put in drive. The X7 doesn't move until you actually press the Gas.

The labor rate in the business model you describe would be well over $200 per book hour. Every business you have ever dealt with marks up cogs. Almost everyone in this thread has no idea the cost to run a good shop. Real estate costs where you can run a shop are astronomical. Insurance costs are up. Good mechanics want to be paid like the professionals we are. Tool costs are through the roof. Every year new tech comes out that we are expected to learn and fix. Parts quality and availability had gotten ridiculous. Jobs have to be warrantied. Environmental regulations are added to every year. And I'm probably not mentioning half of what's required to run a good, profitable business.

So, mind you my shop is simply for my fleet. But let’s hypothetically say it was a public shop. Not private fleet.


I employ 8 mechanics and a clerk.  The building let’s say, costs ~1.5 million dollars.  I have 3 lifts, let’s say $60,000.  Beyond their own tools, I have another $300,000 in shop tools.  From king pin presses, to diagnostic tools and software, to transmission stands, to a gantry crane to pull engines.  

I have electric, water, gas bills, and of course labor to pay for.  And I have to make money.

So even though I don’t need to use that ~$100,000 worth of diagnostic tools, or that $4,000 gantry crane, to have one of my techs change your brake pad.  At the end of the day, it’s my shops overhead.  And you’re going to be paying for it when you take a vehicle there.  


That’s part of the hourly rate. All those things are not free. Even if they’re not in use, on that particular job, doesn’t mean it won’t be part of the bill overall.


(But you’re still wrong, a lot of newer, non sports cars, require a basic scan tool to reset the emergency brake, or retract the calipers.)

Automotive people don’t have the bandwidth to process multiple labor rates, but that’s where it needs to go.

You’re paying $225 an hour if the 19 year old kid who was washing cars last week works on your car or the 25 year veteran works on your car. Look at attorneys, CPAs, etc. You pay for who works on your stuff, not just the work being done.

I’ll set my own labor rate, $750 an hour

I’ll still probably only get $40 of that.

I never said all vehicles do not require it.

I was asked what vehicle I've worked on that had rear electric brakes. To check me, if you will.

I responded with the only vehicle that I have with said brakes. With experience changing those brakes.

And you stated I don't understand how businesses work. I understand fully. And I'm all for shops charging whatever they feel they should. I'm not the customer that's going to pay for something I know how to do myself. I'll pay for stuff outside my skill set, like I stated before.

Did I make a snide comment on you losing $10k and your business knowledge?  Must be all the rain?

Losing 10k to someone who didn’t pay me is just a fact of my business. It was in reply for someone asking for a discount on fuel, which is also in itself a joke because there’s no room for that on fuel margin. You make Pennies on it.

At the end of the day, I bring that up because in the fuels / lubricants business, if people decide not to pay you, there’s very little recourse. Unlike the automotive world, you can’t put a mechanics lean on it.  And, in the case of fuels, by the time see you’re not going to get paid - the product is gone.  

Same case as this, the product is gone. Theyre not going to pay.  It is what it is. Part of the risk of my business and the overhead costs. I write it off, send them to collections and move on.

Getting fucked over in business is part of the deal. Just getting bit by an Arfcommer hurts more, I guess.

But if you did have an understanding, then you have a fairly poor reference of it. As you said, quote:

And there it is!

You don't need an expensive "scan tool" to change rear pads.

End quote.

My reply, was to that exact, quote. You never, in that specific quote, mentioned your vehicle.  


And my exact reply was, quote:
Depends on the vehicle. But sometimes you do.  Newer vehicles I know you do to retract the piston.

End quote.

Where it got snarky was this quote:
Sure.

However, I'm talking about your everyday/normal person vehicle. Not super expensive sport/race cars.

Wifes' 2019 Odyssey has those electronic parking brakes on the rear. They do not require special tools.

And I'd me pissed if some mechanic told me the high cost to replace pads were due to needing special tools for it.

I think that's the jest of this topic.

End quote.


So, you expect that, exact car, to have its own bill rate, with just the exact tools and parts, and its exact overhead built into it? Or, do you think it’s probably more reasonable to believe that all the specialty tools that the mechanic must have and use, will be built into the cost of all jobs? Whether he utilizes them or not?

Thus, my comments about not knowing how business works. And this, my post detailing my own, shop. A bit different as I said, because we are strictly private for our own fleet. Not a public shop.

I hear you. Everyone want's to get rich. That doesn't mean everyone is rich. I buy disposable cars anymore. The last one cost $7000 and pay cash. When the repairs start piling up I trash it and buy another. It used to be I'd fix it or take it to the shop. Those were the good old days. Now you need a reverse mortgage.

No, you have to have a recovery TANK, and that tank must be MARKED with the type of refrigerant it contains,  and the refrigerant cannot be mixed unless you want to pay to unmix it

The question IS  on the test. Ask me how I know

And it's a 608 certificate, not 609

Charge me a honest hourly shop rate and I will be happy.  Charge me ten hours of flat rate after having my vehicle for 3 hours is bullshit.

This.  Doctors are expected to work for free.

Me: sorry, I don't work on other people's cars. Especially not something as important as a braking system

Neighbor: but they want $400, just the front. Not the front AND back. You know how to do a brake job. I saw you do your pickup last week and your wife's suv last fall. All 4 wheels

Me: sorry, I don't work on other people's cars and I don't have time

Neighbor: but we can do it this weekend,  or at night (after you already worked all day) Plus, I'll bring pizz-aah!

Me: sorry, I said no (loading, "Fuck off already!")

Please hold: calibrating sarcasm meter (spinning hourglass here)

IME the richer they are the cheaper they are.

I don't blame them for wanting to make money, but 50 or more bucks plus filter cost is ridiculous for something people should be changing themselves.

The filter thing is a gamble they take. A couple minutes of pulling it and asking to change it is nothing. If the customer says yes, they get an easy payout. If not, it was hardly any time.

The way shops run encourage the easy upsell, which in turn makes customers think they're being shady. In reality, they are working within the system so they can make a living.  I don't blame the techs.

But also, many people never change their filter themselves, so they pay the stupid tax

GD is a weird animal.   They won't sully themselves for a $70 full synthetic oil change even if the lube jockey will cost them a new engine but they'll throw on their coveralls for $500 in brakes that will outlast their oil change and cost more in parts. and potential liability if done wrong.

I know theres a difference. And I know losing time/money is part of owning a business at times.

I own my own business. But that's neither here or there. Just know I know.

And more on topic...

Of course I'm not negotiating on that, my specific vehicle may or may not need certain tools to perform a repair, etc. I know all resources are included in billing, if you will.  I know that. If I decide to let the shop do the job, I accept the charge.

Like anyone, you get the quote, and you have to decide if that's acceptable to you. Based on many factors like knowledge of the subject, finances, time, etc.

I think you are wrong, we do understand, we just can't write a blank check for every repair. Cars used to be made simpler. Now we need a computer engineer to assess the problem. I think we have forgotten what KISS is all about. I buy a car, not a Formula One racer. We have become so addicted to high-tech, we forgot how to KISS.

We just quoted an engine for a 2023 van with 18k miles. A major chain oil change place put the filter in wrong.

$36k. Bet they’re glad that oil change was $149 instead of the $249 we charge.

There are a lot of jobs around the house and vehicles that suck to do, and I could afford to hire out, but I do anyway just because I don't want some fucking asshole to profit that much.  You want to make $200/hr or more for something that can be learned to do in minutes, not years, and the tools cost less than your quote?  

Lol GTFO with that shit.

There's a reason auto parts stores and hardware stores exist.

It's almost like paying people too much to do shit you could have done yourself isn't a characteristic of rich people.

I have both certificates. A 609 is the correct certificate to work on motor vehicle air conditioning. I didn't see any recovery machine in the picture, although maybe you have one off screen. Please review the attached picture from the epa website regarding automotive ac repair. Learn the law and proper repair procedures before being condescending. Either way there are more laws regarding auto repair than just epa 609. There are laws governing repair shops and in my ao if you don't have an approved recovery machine you aren't allowed to do ac work by law. Attached File

Working on and off on my Uncles Farm opened my eyes and taught me a lot. Farmers/Ranchers have to do things on their own. Things break down often and if they called in others to do the work they would never make a profit or go broke. My Uncle could do anything, mechanic work, construction, pesticide application, electrical, dirt work, plumbing, and  weld all on top of knowing how to grow things...

And the added complexity is why I drive older cars myself. I have the tools and knowledge to repair new vehicles, but I don't want to be bothered for myself. 2000-2010 was imho peak automobile reliability in the us.

Working on and off on my Uncles Farm opened my eyes and taught me a lot. Farmers/Ranchers have to do things on their own. Things break down often and if they called in others to do the work they would never make a profit or go broke. My Uncle could do anything, mechanic work, construction, pesticide application, electrical, dirt work, plumbing, and  weld all on top of knowing how to grow things...

I still maintain my certification from bendix on air drum and air disk brakes. I still maintain a class A cdl with all the endorsements.


If I’m working on my semi trucks or driving them, then shit is in really bad shape.

I understand you need to make money in order for it to make sense to stay in business. In all of these type of threads I have replied to, I personally have never said you guys should not make money.

Im not saying this is you, but lets say I brought my car in and the guys decides he can do the repair for $500 and still turn a profit. But he feels me out and thinks he can get $800 out of me, so he basically squeezes me for a free $300. Is that ok?

Ive had several guys lie straight to my face about what was wrong or what they had to do to fix it. Another quoted me $350 plus tax. I was out of town when he called and said it was done, so my wife and son went to pick it up. The bill was now over $600. She had no clue and paid him. Is that ok/honest work?

The majority (not all) of the mechanics I have dealt with over my life will tKe advantage of EVERY person they can, then justify their thievery with bullshit excuses and cry that they don't make any money.

If it’s sooooooo bad, choose a different profession.

PREACH IT!! Louder for the idiots in the back!!!

Price is not directly related to cost.

Price is what the market will bear.


If you don’t like the price, shop it or do it yourself. This is basic economics and business.

I’m not sure I get the hate for capitalism on arfcom. Very strange that people who are supposedly freedom loving hate when other people make money.

i'm still trying to figure out a method (besides trial and error) for how to find a trustworthy mechanic in a town where i know nobody.

The much bigger problem over pricing is the quality of work.

There are a LOT of shit mechanics out there. In all manners of shops. In just about every dealership and most independent shops.

Its not just mechanic's that are rapists but nearly every trade.  I had an hvac guy once try to charge me $18 for a pair of AA batteries for the thermostat. The original batteries were not even low. He just wanted to change them anyways as preventative maintenance. Fuck that.    And that was 20 odd years ago! He'd probably charge $40 for the batteries now.

They all rape us on the price of parts. That's why I do everything I can my self.   The only work I can't do is machine shop stuff. Other then that I do all my own work on my vehicles and homes.  

After the hurricane came through I had a roofer quote me $70000 to fix my roof. I told him to fuck off. I tarped my roof my self, waited for prices to come down and then went to home depot and got the stuff to fix it myself for about $500.  It was a hot sweaty bitch up there but I saved $65000 so oh well.

Fuck everyone who overcharges for goods and services.

I like my profession and make good money doing it. And I have no problem raging about or at bad mechanics. I don't do a lot of what people here are complaining about. The problem is in gd there is usually no middle ground. The simplest way for me to explain it is let's say I need to make 500 on a job. Does it really matter gore the money is split up. 200 from parts and 300 from labor, or all 500 from labor. The price of the job is the same to you. If you don't like the price of legitimately needed work you are free to check elsewhere. That's capitalism. I get very angry at people in my profession who try to sell unnessary work. There is a difference between the two situations though. And automotive repair isn't a commodity that can always be compared apples to apples. I only use premium or oem parts unless there is no other option. Others use the cheapest parts and can work cheaper. Or they skimp on the service,  ie not cleaning and lubing brake hardware. Others still use cheap parts and still charge more than me. It's almost like auto repair is a huge industry filled with a multitude of different people.

The hvac guy sounds like a dick. Otherwise in capitalism there's no such thing as overcharging. He tried to charge more than you would bear and so you found a more economical option. The system worked exactly as designed.

lol, like this only happens to trades. Back when I was on the brokerage side of the firm and talking to clients on the phones it was always the dudes with 1-4 million in a discount/online account trying to get free advice. The moment I said I’d be happy to get them over to the Full Service line they quickly backed away.

 Thing is , paying the 149.00 for an oil change at a oil change shop, shouldn't have been a problem.  
    And because it was doesn't really justify the 249.00 for your shop as only reliable place.
     

I have a local mechanic who is honest.

Recent name brand shops, like Pep Boys, seem to over recommend.

This...

I replace every filter in every car in January of every year. I buy the filters in bulk off of Amazon.