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Posted: 5/26/2024 4:37:13 AM EDT
[#1]
I watched Vivek talk with Dave Smith and Clint Russel last night. I thought Vivek was pretty spot on. The only way for Libertarians to actually have a voice and a chance to steer some policy is to get on board, and Clint just couldn't stop sperging out over the mistakes of the past. He'd clearly rather lose than have the ear of the President, assuming he wins, of course.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 5:05:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was a fairly hostile crowd. Way more so than he usually gets. I think Libertarians are about half conservative and half woke. How are they even a party? The younger republican voters are far more libertarian than conservative and if the GOP doesn't start catering to that it will go extinct. I'm not sure how many libertarians he can convince to vote for him after the big government spending and covid tyranny he went along with. As well as his weak stance on constitutional rights. But he understands marketing well and knows he needs to try. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 5:33:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. He's at least trying to reach out to them which nobody has done before.  He could have used their votes here in 2020. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 6:42:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched Vivek talk with Dave Smith and Clint Russel last night. I thought Vivek was pretty spot on. The only way for Libertarians to actually have a voice and a chance to steer some policy is to get on board, and Clint just couldn't stop sperging out over the mistakes of the past. He'd clearly rather lose than have the ear of the President, assuming he wins, of course.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 6:51:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Whenever I take one of those tests I always come back moderate libertarian. Which is goofy because most of my viewpoints are extreme, they just balance out.
 
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Posted: 5/26/2024 6:55:49 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 6:58:36 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 7:44:16 AM EDT
[#8]
It was basically a propaganda speech.
Once again, everything he said he WOULD do can easily be countered with "then why didn't you last time?" He wants to believe in liberty so much, that much is true. But he still doesn't seem to fully understand it. A third of the speech was him reading what someone else said, which was also pretty laughable. I still wish we could see a Q&A where someone holds his feet to the fire about the liberal shit he was proud to do and see how he responds. Still much better than Biden. I respect him for showing up, actually. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 8:45:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Libertarian party is total clown shoes. The best way for libertarians to actually change the GOP is to elect liberty-minded people like Rand Paul and Justin Amash. Yep. 1000% this but there’s no downside to Trump reaching out. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:12:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1000% this but there’s no downside to Trump reaching out. It rings hollow to me other than to pull more votes. I expect libertarians in his cabinet about like I expect the 2A Coalition to exist. And I hope I'm proven wrong. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:29:30 AM EDT
[#11]
1: the LP is more bootheaded clownshoes than the Republicans. Which is sad because the RP is pretty friggin’ bad right now.
2: how did Trump or anyone on his staff think showing up at the LP convention would go any other way than this…?! |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:29:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was basically a propaganda speech. Once again, everything he said he WOULD do can easily be countered with "then why didn't you last time?" He wants to believe in liberty so much, that much is true. But he still doesn't seem to fully understand it. A third of the speech was him reading what someone else said, which was also pretty laughable. I still wish we could see a Q&A where someone holds his feet to the fire about the liberal shit he was proud to do and see how he responds. Still much better than Biden. I respect him for showing up, actually. That is hardly the entirety of that discussion as you damned well know, but good enough I guess for you to get a bit of Trump bashing in. Seems you are living in the past. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:34:10 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Libertarians = LOL.
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:40:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1: the LP is more bootheaded clownshoes than the Republicans. Which is sad because the RP is pretty friggin’ bad right now. 2: how did Trump or anyone on his staff think showing up at the LP convention would go any other way than this…?! If you visit a mental hospital does it change the occupants and their normal? The LP is slightly less whacked out than the dims, still whack jobs. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:47:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Recovering libertarian here—and I was a well-read true believer—and Trump was right
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:52:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you visit a mental hospital does it change the occupants and their normal? The LP is slightly less whacked out than the dims, still whack jobs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1: the LP is more bootheaded clownshoes than the Republicans. Which is sad because the RP is pretty friggin’ bad right now. 2: how did Trump or anyone on his staff think showing up at the LP convention would go any other way than this…?! If you visit a mental hospital does it change the occupants and their normal? The LP is slightly less whacked out than the dims, still whack jobs. Of course it is. Reference the “bootheaded clownshoes” comment. The last 15ish years for the LP has been transformative. From a party with legitimate planks to “muh weed, muh atheism” in under two decades. 
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Posted: 5/26/2024 9:58:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is hardly the entirety of that discussion as you damned well know, but good enough I guess for you to get a bit of Trump bashing in. Seems you are living in the past. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was basically a propaganda speech. Once again, everything he said he WOULD do can easily be countered with "then why didn't you last time?" He wants to believe in liberty so much, that much is true. But he still doesn't seem to fully understand it. A third of the speech was him reading what someone else said, which was also pretty laughable. I still wish we could see a Q&A where someone holds his feet to the fire about the liberal shit he was proud to do and see how he responds. Still much better than Biden. I respect him for showing up, actually. That is hardly the entirety of that discussion as you damned well know, but good enough I guess for you to get a bit of Trump bashing in. Seems you are living in the past. It's not really about Trump. If McCain or Romney stood in front of the libertarian party and claimed to love the 2nd amendment and due process after touting "I like taking the guns first, due process later", then there is a good chance they are just a liar. Many of the subjects he discussed were similar to that scenario. He just spoke to a crowd who loves liberty but who isn't fawning over him. They gave the reaction I would expect. The only context is "but he's better than Biden". Sometimes that's enough. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:07:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whenever I take one of those tests I always come back moderate libertarian. Which is goofy because most of my viewpoints are extreme, they just balance out. https://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/1000v/97/11/political-compass-or-spectrum-chart-vector-26019711.jpg I always thought of that as a horseshit metric based on simple questions to complex issues. "Should abortion be legal?" No = Authoritarian. Save babies and call me Hitler. OK. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:10:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Overall, I'd say Trump handled himself pretty well.
His biggest problem (to me, IMHO), is that he doesn't really grasp the concepts outlined in the COTUS/BoRs. He seems to think they're suggestions, not hard & fast rules. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:18:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can 2 parties share a candidate? That would be awesome. More than 2 parties can share a candidate. It used to be a common practice. Look at the election of 1896 for an example. I can't remember how many small, insignificant parties there were, but it was more than a handful. Yet most of them supported either McKinley or Bryan. I might have to do some research on this phenomenon. Third party candidates in my lifetime have usually supported their own candidate, but it seems like this was a bit different in the 19th century. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 10:52:07 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:03:54 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:04:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Libertarian principles are pretty awesome. Libertarian Party is a rampant shit sammich dominated by the loud obnoxious lefty leaning types that are only worried about weed and homos and would trade every other point of limited governance for those two minor subjects. True words right here. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:07:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Got booed roundly when he mentioned his 'biggest ever endorsement' from the NRA. I wouldn't read too much into that. Most of GD hates the NRA. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Has the libertarian organization been infiltrated like other orgs?
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:17:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the republican party was fractured, the libertarian party is literally lost. It's a party that consists of members from both sides of the political spectrum, who have differing values, mainly united by the belief no one should be able to tell them how to live their life. Of course it's going to be a lost shit show. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 11:25:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has the libertarian organization been infiltrated like other orgs? 100% And there is no self-check for the party, either. The very principles that make the party appealing leave it utterly exposed to this infiltration. |
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Posted: 5/26/2024 3:52:36 PM EDT
[#29]
That went about as well as I expected with his gun-grabbing and full-term abortion agenda.
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Posted: 5/27/2024 8:05:03 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 5/27/2024 8:17:36 AM EDT
[#31]
LP nominee Chase Oliver is a pedo-groomer pervert.
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Posted: 5/27/2024 11:35:44 AM EDT
[#32]
Outreach is a thing.
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:05:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Now that the Libertarians have officially nominated, I can actually make a decision. Unfortunately after a 1st glance it looks like Trump is somehow the most conservative option again.
I hang my head in shame at how pathetic everything political is in the country I love. At this moment it looks like I'll definitely have to vote for Trump in 2024. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:08:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I associate with no party, and am represented by no party. That said, it's obvious that Trump is the obvious obvious obviously. Operating operationally. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:11:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1: the LP is more bootheaded clownshoes than the Republicans. Which is sad because the RP is pretty friggin’ bad right now. 2: how did Trump or anyone on his staff think showing up at the LP convention would go any other way than this…?! I found a bag of popcorn and a whore-ass wine cooler. You know? 
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:11:44 PM EDT
[#36]
The Libertarian party is heavily influenced by Democrat money.
Put very simply, without a rant, the Mises wing of the party (just think the right wing libertarians) have had huge issues gaining power even though their ideas are more attractive. There's some really shady stuff going on within the party to keep them from getting control. Not only nationally but also at a state level |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:16:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Next up: Presbyterians!
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:18:35 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:19:44 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:21:10 PM EDT
[#40]
If libertarians were smart, they wouldn't be wasting their time with their own little party. They would be working towards advancing their beliefs by infiltrating and taking over the Republican Party similar to the way the communists have done with the Democrat Party.
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:24:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If libertarians were smart, they wouldn't be wasting their time with their own little party. They would be working towards advancing their beliefs by infiltrating and taking over the Republican Party similar to the way the communists have done with the Democrat Party. I've looked into multiple options. Making the Libertarian party a viable 3rd option, getting into the Republican side, etc. I have come to the conclusion the entire federal government simply needs to be dismantled and we can hold new conventions for what it should look like going forward. The federal government cannot be reformed from within |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:26:09 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've looked into multiple options. Making the Libertarian party a viable 3rd option, getting into the Republican side, etc. I have come to the conclusion the entire federal government simply needs to be dismantled and we can hold new conventions for what it should look like going forward. The federal government cannot be reformed from within  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:28:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Trump is casting the widest net possible. If you were to tell me he’s doing a rally in Gary, Indiana. I wouldn’t be surprised.
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:30:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Trump is casting the widest net possible. If you were to tell me he’s doing a rally in Gary, Indiana. I wouldn’t be surprised. I will be voting for Trump a third time, and also I expect him to win. Friendly reminder literally nothing will change in the Federal government |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:38:37 PM EDT
[#45]
"Do you want the LP to only have 3%?"
Says the NON-LP candidate asking for the LP to not vote LP. You can't make this shit up! The great and magnificent Trump, buying off L votes by promising to pardon a "free drugs!" fucktard who hired contract killers. And still they booed him.  Seriously, you can't make this shit up! |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 12:45:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've looked into multiple options. Making the Libertarian party a viable 3rd option, getting into the Republican side, etc. I have come to the conclusion the entire federal government simply needs to be dismantled and we can hold new conventions for what it should look like going forward. The federal government cannot be reformed from within Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If libertarians were smart, they wouldn't be wasting their time with their own little party. They would be working towards advancing their beliefs by infiltrating and taking over the Republican Party similar to the way the communists have done with the Democrat Party. I've looked into multiple options. Making the Libertarian party a viable 3rd option, getting into the Republican side, etc. I have come to the conclusion the entire federal government simply needs to be dismantled and we can hold new conventions for what it should look like going forward. The federal government cannot be reformed from within |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 1:11:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The federal government absolutely can be changed dramatically - we are right now seeing how the communists have done it. The change doesn't start, or come along only through politics and elections, however. 2+ generations of Americans have been taught to be leftists, and they have taken control over everything as adults. America won't be saved unless the education industry is saved. Even if Trump wins and there is a red wave this year, it won't be sustainable as long as most kids are force-fed leftism for 12+ years. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If libertarians were smart, they wouldn't be wasting their time with their own little party. They would be working towards advancing their beliefs by infiltrating and taking over the Republican Party similar to the way the communists have done with the Democrat Party. I've looked into multiple options. Making the Libertarian party a viable 3rd option, getting into the Republican side, etc. I have come to the conclusion the entire federal government simply needs to be dismantled and we can hold new conventions for what it should look like going forward. The federal government cannot be reformed from within It's not entirely leftism. There's an entire industry which is federal beaurocracy which needs to go away. The stupid rules the EPA comes up with, the ATF comes up with, etc. These are unelected people which do not change during elections. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 1:44:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If libertarians were smart, they wouldn't be wasting their time with their own little party. They would be working towards advancing their beliefs by infiltrating and taking over the Republican Party similar to the way the communists have done with the Democrat Party. The problem becomes very apparent if you look at Jonathan Haidt's work on political affiliation and what drives it. Socialism thrives on the left because its primary moral axis can be described as harm/well-being, the liberal axis. Libertarianism doesn't thrive on the right because its primary moral axis is justice/injustice and is often in direct conflict with the conservative's divinity/disgust. The justice axis is actually much bigger than even (l)ibertarianism, and the problems that result from the justice axis being fractured and disenfranchised go far beyond libertarian issues. It seems like a no-brainer right? Whoever convinces those voters they're the lesser evil wins easily, but many attempts have been made to get the GOP (and the Dems) to adopt a more libertarian platform in exchange for votes and the majority bases of the major parties flatly reject it. You're going against people's fundamental beliefs, their deepest moral priorities. I thought like you for decades and wasted a lot of effort and energy until I came to understand this. I really don't believe a two-party system can ever overcome this problem either, the best we could hope for is that one of the other axis gets fucked instead. I think a lot of conservatives actually understand this whether they've ever had the thought explicitly or not. They're the faction that would end up disenfranchised. That's why so many conservatives react so negatively to any attempt to do what you suggest. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 2:01:03 PM EDT
[#49]
The Biden campaign tweeted, “A seething and unpopular Trump lashes out and belittles the audience as they boo him.”
There’s your left-wing media spin. Angela Elise McArdle, chairwoman of the Libertarian National Committee, tweeted back, “You didn’t even show up. You have zero credibility.” There’s your story. |
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Posted: 5/27/2024 2:30:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem becomes very apparent if you look at Jonathan Haidt's work on political affiliation and what drives it. Socialism thrives on the left because its primary moral axis can be described as harm/well-being, the liberal axis. Libertarianism doesn't thrive on the right because its primary moral axis is justice/injustice and is often in direct conflict with the conservative's divinity/disgust. The justice axis is actually much bigger than even (l)ibertarianism, and the problems that result from the justice axis being fractured and disenfranchised go far beyond libertarian issues. It seems like a no-brainer right? Whoever convinces those voters they're the lesser evil wins easily, but many attempts have been made to get the GOP (and the Dems) to adopt a more libertarian platform in exchange for votes and the majority bases of the major parties flatly reject it. You're going against people's fundamental beliefs, their deepest moral priorities. I thought like you for decades and wasted a lot of effort and energy until I came to understand this. I really don't believe a two-party system can ever overcome this problem either, the best we could hope for is that one of the other axis gets fucked instead. I think a lot of conservatives actually understand this whether they've ever had the thought explicitly or not. They're the faction that would end up disenfranchised. That's why so many conservatives react so negatively to any attempt to do what you suggest. This is a pretty clear explanation of why libertarianism doesn’t thrive in the GOP. It’s not for lack of trying, Ron Paul was LP before making the jump to the GOP. Rand and Massie are about as close as one gets to recreating that. |
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