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Link Posted: 7/21/2024 7:39:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bashby] [#1]
That’s really clean under the valve cover, like newish engine clean. Maybe I missed you saying how old the engine was, but that’s way cleaner than anything I’ve seen with any substantial mileage.
ETA: what’s the underside of the VC look like?

Another thing that could cause the fuel pump to not pump fuel is a hole in the suction  line between the pump and the tank, but your test with the fuel line should eliminate that as long as you weren’t sucking air where the hose hooks to the pump.

I assume that has a stamped steel valve cover…. Pro tip to reduce the oil leakage, sight down the “flat” surface of the valve cover where it meets up to the head. Where the bolts hold it on gets bent so it doesn’t seal the gasket tightly in the areas between the bolts. Fix that with a hammer and flat surface like the edge of a bench as an anvil.
Link Posted: 7/21/2024 7:55:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#2]
I have no history on the motor, so no idea if its had any work or not...but the valve train does look remarkably clean.  The first Jeep I ever bought was a '94 YJ with a 4cyl, and one of the first maintenance items was a leaking valve cover.  I wish I could find the pic, but to say it was sludged over would be an understatement.   I couldn't believe how bad it was once I pulled the valve cover, and almost made me wish I hadn't touched it in the first place...ended up turning a 30min job into several hours of scraping/vacuuming up chunks of sludge.  I still haven't seen one even remotely close to being as bad, even online.

This one has the plastic valve cover.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Waiting on the fuel pump now, should be able to pick it up shortly.  In the meantime, I'm trying to figure out which valve cover gasket I need.  Short of ordering online, AutoZone is the only local place that can have a valve cover gasket tomorrow.  They have a Fel-Pro that's a cork/laminated material for $54, or I can order a Mahle cork w/ metal carrier, or a Mahle that's cork rubber (the Mahle gaskets are $24 ea).  Any real differences between the three?  I'm leaning towards the cork/rubber Mahle...
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 3:34:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Went ahead and ordered a $19 valve cover gasket through O'Reillys....should be here tomorrow.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 9:54:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#5]
7/22 Update

All aboard the fail boat, full steam ahead!!

You ever feel like sometimes you shouldn't be left without adult supervision?  That was me today.  What started out as a 10 minute swap of a simple mechanical fuel pump turned into a 3 hour mini disaster.

See that little hole in the block where the fuel pump fits?



Just a simple two bolts, and you're good to go....unless you're me.  I wanted to add a little anti-seize to the holes before mounting the fuel pump, so I hand threaded the bolts in place with a little dab.....and promptly dropped the second bolt in the block.  I spent a good 30 minutes trying to fish it out with various magnets, but it fell all the way to the back of the oil pan.

It probably would have been fine, but my OCD wouldn't let me leave it there.  The oil pan looked pretty straightforward to remove, just a little cross bar between the frame rails, so I figured I would just drop the pan and retrieve the bolt.  Of course, nothing is ever simple.  You would think that removing a bunch of 7/16" oil pan bolts would be easy, except Jeep threw in 4x 1/2" bolts to make things interesting.  

Here's the oil pan, looks like someone painted it (poorly) at some point and all the paint is now flaking off.







No worries, all of them came out without any fuss....except the very last one between the passenger side motor mount and the oil pan.  





I'm not sure if the motor mount is simply bent in, but this last bolt was an absolute pain in the ass.  There is no way to get a 7/16" socket in the there, and eventually was barely able to wedge a 7/16" nut driver in place to remove the bolt.  Not that it mattered, its not like the oil pan simply came off easily after that.

At first I was convinced I'd missed a bolt somewhere, it was damn near welded to the block.  Maybe not welded, but definitely well glued.  There was no way to get any leverage from under the Jeep, so I had to take a long pry bar and hammer around the lip from the engine bay with a dead blow hammer.  Once again, nothing is ever simple. Finally got it broke loose, but still couldn't simply drop the pan.  Remember the passenger side motor mount?  It angles in enough that you can't just drop the pan.  Even angling it does no good, just not enough room.  I dropped the front driveshaft, which gave me a little more room to angle the pan, but still wouldn't drop.  I finally had to loosen the oil pump, which moved just enough to give me the clearance I needed.  










Now, I have to clean up the oil pan, straighten out the lip/edges all the way around, and paint it with some high temp paint....oh, and pick up a new oil pan gasket.  The new fuel pump is in place, but I won't be able to test it until all my other shenanigans are reassembled.  Interestingly enough, the oil I drained out looked damn near new.  

Lol, I guess its a Jeep thing.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 10:12:50 PM EDT
[#6]
That is an exceptionally clean looking bottom end.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 10:36:12 PM EDT
[#7]
It definitely is pretty clean.
Link Posted: 7/22/2024 11:31:38 PM EDT
[#8]
That thing is super clean. Almost too clean. Like someone put it together and never could get it to run right.
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ARHank:
That thing is super clean. Almost too clean. Like someone put it together and never could get it to run right.
View Quote


It's possible, but it was never mentioned one way or the other when I bought it...I do know (now) the distributor was way off, so there was no way it was running before.
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 10:03:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dagger41] [#10]
Looks like somebody bought a rebuilt long block, installed it and couldn't get it to run very well and gave up on it.
Probably overlooked a dying fuel pump and started dicking with the distributor and parked it. Age and sitting killed the pump diaphram completely.
With the valve cover off , turn the engine over to TDC #1 and the rotor in the distributor pointing directly at the #1 spark plug wire on the cap.  Then look at the rocker arms on the #1 cylinder and make sure they are fully in the up position and the valves are completely closed.
That will give you an idea if the cam timing is out. Also look at the camshaft sprocket (not the crank sprocket) since you have the oil pan off. If it has nylon teeth REPLACE it.
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 11:58:08 AM EDT
[#11]
I'll check it this evening, thanks!
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 4:45:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Picked up a valve cover and oil pan gasket, just need to get the oil pan flattened out and surfaces cleaned/prepped.  Might as well go ahead and paint the oil pan, does it need high heat paint or will standard stuff work?
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 5:06:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Regular engine paint will do.
Link Posted: 7/23/2024 5:08:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AeroE] [#14]
Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:05:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Worked on getting the oil pan cleaned up today...





Some little nicks/gouges where I had to persuade the oil pan to release from the block...







Here you can see how it was bent slightly from removal, it was all banged/reshaped back flat.





Inside of the pan...



...stripped/degreased, ready for paint.







Primed....




...and a coat or two of paint.





Now, I just have to wait for the paint to cure and reinstall.  I've cleaned the mating surfaces of the head and block, so next time I'm home I should be able to install the oil pan and valve cover.  I went ahead and ordered a Fel-Pro rear main seal kit...no reason not to ahead and change it out as well.

Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:18:56 PM EDT
[#16]
What a kick in the dick. Hope you get it going.
Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:28:01 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ropin4gold:
What a kick in the dick. Hope you get it going.
View Quote


Burn After Reading - What Have We Learned Palmer?
Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:32:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: IdahoPCCinc] [#18]
OP....go look at the pic of the engine mount you posted. The rubber is all cracked.

What happens with the 4.2 engines is when they rubber goes bad, they collapse down, and make it hard to pull the oil pan out without jacking up the motor an inch or 2.

The other thing that contributes to this is the transmission/transfer case mounts are probably shot as well.


Before you try to stick the pan back in there......stick a jack under the bell housing (use a piece of wood between jack/bell housing) and slowly apply some upward pressure.

As you do this....loosen the motor mounts at the frame bracket and on the block. This should give enough space to get the pan back in there without messing up the new gasket when you stick the pan back in there.

And FWIW....use a large bead at the front/rear of the pan where the curved rubber seals are. These are usually where the leaks happen.

Once the pan is in place and tightened up....slowly lower the jack back down and tighten the motor mounts/brackets.

Or....spend a few bucks and toss in some new motor mounts/trans mount since they are already loose and shot out.




.
Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:39:59 PM EDT
[#19]
*votes to replace the engine/trans mounts* if that engine decides to "torque up", the fan could say "hello" to the radiator... plus, collapsed mounts are a throttle stomp away from breaking apart, quite often.
Link Posted: 7/24/2024 8:43:24 PM EDT
[#20]
I pulled the oil pump to give me a little more room to clean the lower mating surface of the block, so I will have to replace the oil pump gasket...I see it listed with the kits, but haven't been able to find one individually...even on the Fel-Pro site.  I may end up having to make my own, but surely its available by itself.
Link Posted: 7/25/2024 7:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DamascusKnifemaker] [#21]
Link Posted: 7/25/2024 8:02:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jason280:
I pulled the oil pump to give me a little more room to clean the lower mating surface of the block, so I will have to replace the oil pump gasket...I see it listed with the kits, but haven't been able to find one individually...even on the Fel-Pro site.  I may end up having to make my own, but surely its available by itself.
View Quote


From my experience with projects, just get the full kits.  You never know when you'll pull a dumb and need a gasket suddenly.  Your bolt in oil pan story reminded me of some of my lessons.

Though my painful one was a Ducati rocker arm clip in the top end. And it was my only working vehicle at the time.
Link Posted: 7/25/2024 9:56:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DamascusKnifemaker:
Oil Pump Gasket


All Gaskets
View Quote


Thanks!
Link Posted: 7/25/2024 3:26:08 PM EDT
[#24]
The rms on these is a bitch to get to seal.  Unless you see a sign of leaking I’d leave it alone.

Removing the right engine mount is the usual way of getting the oil pan on and off.

Fuel pumps for these engines are absolute garbage now.  Best bet seems to be NAPA.  The Jeep boards are full of people getting new fuel pumps that immediately leak or fail,
Link Posted: 7/25/2024 5:21:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
The rms on these is a bitch to get to seal.  Unless you see a sign of leaking I’d leave it alone.

Removing the right engine mount is the usual way of getting the oil pan on and off.

Fuel pumps for these engines are absolute garbage now.  Best bet seems to be NAPA.  The Jeep boards are full of people getting new fuel pumps that immediately leak or fail,
View Quote


Hopefully this pump will be OK, can't really do a whole lot of testing on it until I get everything back together.

Hopefully I won't forget to put this back in until after I get gasket sealant smeared everywhere...

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 3:03:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DamascusKnifemaker:
Oil Pump Gasket
View Quote
$1.99 for the gasket, but $12 to ship.  I have some gasket material/sheets, I'll just make my own.

eta:  just found one on ebay for $4.50 shipped.
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 3:54:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jason280:


Hopefully this pump will be OK, can't really do a whole lot of testing on it until I get everything back together.

Hopefully I won't forget to put this back in until after I get gasket sealant smeared everywhere...

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/15608/20240724_201115_jpg-3276815.JPG
View Quote


Yep, just wanted to give you a heads up so you weren’t scratching your head. Wondering why your brand new fuel pump still wasn’t pumping fuel.

You’re more likely to get a bad one than a good one now, so if it’s not working right, chances are you got a junk pump
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 7:12:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jason280:


$1.99 for the gasket, but $12 to ship.  I have some gasket material/sheets, I'll just make my own.  

eta:  just found one on ebay for $4.50 shipped.

View Quote


That was why I put the other gasket link as you are going to need them too.
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 8:06:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:


Yep, just wanted to give you a heads up so you weren’t scratching your head. Wondering why your brand new fuel pump still wasn’t pumping fuel.

You’re more likely to get a bad one than a good one now, so if it’s not working right, chances are you got a junk pump
View Quote


Haven't actually tested the new pump yet...
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 2:07:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Watch this OP. This is why you want to inspect the timing chain.

Jeep 4.2L Timing Chain Replacement
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 5:50:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Oil pan is ready to go back on, now just need time to get it all back together.

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/26/2024 6:01:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DamascusKnifemaker:


That was why I put the other gasket link as you are going to need them too.
View Quote


If I had known I was going down this long rabbit hole of replacement parts, I probably would have ordered a gasket kit from Fel-Pro.
Link Posted: 7/30/2024 2:24:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Oil pump gasket came in, bow I should be able to start putting things back together...

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 6:46:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#34]
Update 8/4

Finally getting a chance to work on the CJ a little.  I didn't have much time, but I wanted to see what all I'd need to do to get the motor/trans lifted off the passenger side motor mount.  This will give me enough clearance to fit the oil pan back in place, and also give me a chance to go ahead and replace both motor mounts.  

I have a MaxJax lift, which lifts to around 46-48".  Not enough room to stand under, but a decent amount of room to slide around under vehicles on a roller seat.  I had to think about how I wanted to lift the trans, had to essentially build a riser to use a small bottle jack....of course, using the heaviest damn things I could possibly find.







None of this felt right or safe, even to get this much movement in the mount:



My riser set up was really too much in the way, and I never felt good about it (even though it was probably overkill).  Then I remembered I had this stashed away in one of the barns.




I've had this thing probably at least 5 or so years, and have never used it.  It was too much in the way in the shop, so I relocated it a year or so ago and simply forgot about it.  

Here's my question.  Is it really fine to lift there at the bellhousing, or do I need to lift at the transmission itself?  I couldn't tell for sure, but it sounded like I was either hitting the firewall or something else on my first lift attempt....and it just didn't seem right to be putting all that weight on the bellhousing.  I pulled the fan to give more clearance at the radiator,  not sure if that was really necessary or not, but didn't look like I was going to be able to lift high enough to go ahead and swap out the driver's side motor mount.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 7:26:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Why don’t you have the lift all the way up so you can stand under it and work?
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 7:30:40 PM EDT
[#36]
It’s fine to lift on the bell housing.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 7:35:46 PM EDT
[#37]
A tall screw jack like that one I linked is an awesome tool when you have a lift. You can use it to hold up a tail pipe and I have used similar ones to jack up an engine/trans assy. To replace motor mounts or something like what you are doing
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 9:13:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bashby:
Why don’t you have the lift all the way up so you can stand under it and work?
View Quote


MaxJax lifts only lift to around 48"....designed to be more compact and movable.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 9:31:06 PM EDT
[#39]
I'm not a jeep guy but often you can loosen up the trans mount, jack the tail end of the trans up, and sneak an oil pan in. Once the pan is on, you could lift the engine up with a block of wood under the pan.

If you have an engine hoist, you might want to go that route. Of course, you won't have the car lifted. Just slide under on a creeper.

The bell housing should be fine. Just a little awkward to get a purchase on.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 9:32:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jason280:


MaxJax lifts only lift to around 48"....designed to be more compact and movable.
View Quote



Never seen one of those lifts. Not ideal for the job you’re doing but if  portable  is what you need or don’t have enough ceiling height might be a good option.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bashby:



Never seen one of those lifts. Not ideal for the job you're doing but if  portable  is what you need or don't have enough ceiling height might be a good option.
View Quote
I just got done doing a rack and pinion on jack stands in my carport and it was 114. Those max jacks are looking pretty right about now.
Link Posted: 8/4/2024 10:33:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Sometimes harmonic balancers can spin on the sleeve and the timing mark is no longer accurate on it.  Always check with the valve cover off if it keeps giving you fits.  I hate painting things black on an engine.  Bright orange makes it super simple to see any leaks.  Good luck
Link Posted: 8/5/2024 6:47:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bashby:

Never seen one of those lifts. Not ideal for the job you’re doing but if  portable  is what you need or don’t have enough ceiling height might be a good option.
View Quote


They're designed for smaller garages with limited height, you can actually unbolt the columns out of the way...even the hydraulic pump pack has quick disconnects.

Mine is actually installed in a more permanent setup, with hydraulic lines run overhead and the power pack hanging on one of the columns.  Works great for Jeep projects, oil changes, and tire/brake stuff.

Eta:  really needs to be about 6-8" higher, though...I'm working on fabbing up some lift pad extensions to the additional height.
Link Posted: 8/5/2024 1:39:04 PM EDT
[#44]
You might be hitting the firewall with the back of the valve cover, as the engine is likely pivoting on the transmission mount instead of lifting "up".

I'd put new motor mounts in, install pan, then lower back down, and jack up transmission and Tcase from behind the skid, just enough to swap in a new tranmission mount.

I like Poly motor mounts, but rubber transmission mounts.  I used all Prothane on one of mine years ago and the damn vibration was horrible with all poly mounts.
Link Posted: 8/5/2024 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#45]
You also might want to shine a flashlight into the fuel pump mounting area and make sure the eccentric is properly mounted.  It would not be the first rebuilt motor that forgot to have it installed.
Link Posted: 8/5/2024 5:34:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jason280] [#46]
You might be hitting the firewall with the back of the valve cover, as the engine is likely pivoting on the transmission mount instead of lifting "up".
View Quote


I think this was probably what was happening. Jacking up at the bellhousing, it was pretty much only lifting/pivoting the rear of the motor, transmission, and transfer case...and wasn't doing a good job of lifting the motor to clear the motor mount.  Plus, the transmission jack is pretty much always in the way with the roller seat, so I had to get creative.  Almost certainly needs a new trans mount bushing, but that's another project for another day.

Lol, I noticed this when I first put it on the lift, but finally took a pic....not quite sure that's quite an OEM clutch shift linkage.





Link Posted: 8/5/2024 6:04:48 PM EDT
[#47]
8/5 Update

Actually made some decent progress today.  

Valve cover is back on with a new gasket, it was the easier of the jobs today.  Once it was done, I moved on to the oil pan.  Before I got too far into it, I wanted to go ahead and change the driver's side motor mount.  It's somewhat the easier of the two, but lifting the motor at the bellhousing wasn't given me enough clearance.  After staring at it a while, I got creative sketchy.  





The scissor jack gave me plenty of clearance on the driver's side, and made changing the motor mount fairly straightforward.  You have to loosen up the frame mount to allow clearance for the lower stud on the rubber pad, but I went and ahead completely removed the frame mount to clean it up.  Also cleaned up the ground strap mounting locations, hopefully it will help with some of the ground issues.






Now, while the scissor jack did work pretty well (and actually felt fairly solid), it was too much in the way to allow the oil pan to fit.  There are two threaded bosses on the lower portion of the block on the driver's side, so I cut/drilled a piece of 3/16" plate to match up with the holes (and extend down below the block).  Anyone know what those threaded holes are there for?  Once the plate was bolted in place, used a small bottle jack on top of the front axle to lift the motor...worked very well.  If this ever became a habit, I'd weld a slightly larger piece of plate to the bottom of the jack, drill 4 holes, and bolt in place to the front axle with u-bolts.








Old motor mount...




New one in place...




I removed the motor mount bracket off the passenger side of the block, and installed oil pump...




...then on to the oil pan.  The outer edge of the oil pan hits the lift plate just enough to make it a tight fit, so I sort of pushed it into place with the trans jack...surprisingly, all the bolt holes line up well with the gasket.







Everything is all back together now, starter is back in place and the front drive shaft reattached.  I have a couple coolant hoses to replace, so they'll be swapped out tomorrow.  Plan is to hook up a small tank, make sure the new fuel pump is working, and see if I can get it to crank over straight from the tank.  

**finger crossed**


Link Posted: 8/5/2024 11:53:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jason280:


I think this was probably what was happening. Jacking up at the bellhousing, it was pretty much only lifting/pivoting the rear of the motor, transmission, and transfer case...and wasn't doing a good job of lifting the motor to clear the motor mount.  Plus, the transmission jack is pretty much always in the way with the roller seat, so I had to get creative.  Almost certainly needs a new trans mount bushing, but that's another project for another day.

Lol, I noticed this when I first put it on the lift, but finally took a pic....not quite sure that's quite an OEM clutch shift linkage.

https://i.imgur.com/ZzkXWxF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ns24r8C.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fMeuaxB.jpg

View Quote
Did I work on this?


Link Posted: 8/6/2024 11:46:14 AM EDT
[#49]
Looks good!

And that's definitely not the OEM clutch linkage, but if it works, it works!
Link Posted: 8/6/2024 4:03:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wm69:
Looks good!

And that's definitely not the OEM clutch linkage, but if it works, it works!
View Quote


It seems to work so far...
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