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Quoted: The look on all those cops faces standing there outside and not saying a word when he walked out was very telling. They all knew he was going to be toast for that. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32274/Screenshot_2024-07-25_at_09-32-39_Deputy-3276593.JPG View Quote One of the other officers asks cro-magnon if he is ok. He says, “Yeah, I’m good, the fucking bitch is crazy.” Boy, the jury is going to love his caring concern for the dead lady. |
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Good analysis from an attorney/retired cop. His conclusion: the sociopath will stay in jail for a long time.
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Criminal Lawyer Reacts & Analyzes the Bodycam Footage of Sonjya Massey
Criminal Lawyer Reacts & Analyzes the Bodycam Footage of Sonjya Massey |
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She called them into the home to check for intruders. So they had every right to be there.
She picked up a weapon. She attempted to use the weapon. The officer rebuked her in the name of his qualified immunity, resulting in cessation of the threat. This will happen 10/10 times if you throw boiling water a a LEO. That is not murder in the first. |
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Quoted: Criminal Lawyer Reacts & Analyzes the Bodycam Footage of Sonjya Massey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjOg4gbQ3aY View Quote 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. REAL LAWYER: The Legal TRUTH of the SONYA MASSEY CASE |
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Quoted: 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 View Quote Judging by that video breakdown, good shoot. For the Deputy, it sucks to be a political enemy of the state. He will ultimately be acquitted but his lively hood will be stripped from him and he will be a social pariah. Glad I have 32 years in with my agency. I can pull the plug at any time. *insert "It's gonna get a whole lot worse" meme here |
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Quoted: She called them into the home to check for intruders. So they had every right to be there. She picked up a weapon. She attempted to use the weapon. The officer rebuked her in the name of his qualified immunity, resulting in cessation of the threat. This will happen 10/10 times if you throw boiling water a a LEO. That is not murder in the first. View Quote What's the time stamp in the video where she claimed intruders were in the house or asked them to come inside? |
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Quoted: She called them into the home to check for intruders. So they had every right to be there. She picked up a weapon. She attempted to use the weapon. View Quote Let us assume everything you say is true. Heck, let's remove the badges for a moment, since this is just a voluntary discussion and they have no police power to arrest or detain her involuntarily. Two Jehovah's Witnesses knock on her door. She opens the door and talks to them. They walk in. She doesn't attempt to stop them, she just keeps talking to them. The conversation remains voluntary, and in the middle of some mild mannered kidding around, one of the Witnesses pulls out a gun and threatens to shoot her in the fucking face. Is the guy with the gun an immediate threat to which she may legally respond with deadly force? Damn fucking straight he is. Can she legally use any and all means to end that threat, up to and including picking up a RPG launcher and laying a grenade in his center mass? Yes, she can. If she attempts to defend herself from his felonious assault, does her self defense action entitle him to shoot her in the fucking face to stop her from defending herself? No, it fucking well does not. Does any of the above change if you pin a badge on the attacking felon? No, it does not. |
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Quoted: Good analysis from an attorney/retired cop. His conclusion: the sociopath will stay in jail for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBbs08lMeOg View Quote Well, I saw the first ten minutes before it got deleted. Did he get into the self defense aspects of a large man pointing a gun at you in your home and threatening to shoot you in the fucking face? The last I saw was him pointing out the vast disparity of size between the woman and Grayson. |
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Quoted: What's the time stamp in the video where she claimed intruders were in the house or asked them to come inside? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: She called them into the home to check for intruders. So they had every right to be there. She picked up a weapon. She attempted to use the weapon. The officer rebuked her in the name of his qualified immunity, resulting in cessation of the threat. This will happen 10/10 times if you throw boiling water a a LEO. That is not murder in the first. What's the time stamp in the video where she claimed intruders were in the house or asked them to come inside? ...and if she called them inside to check for intruders, why didn't they look for intruders? They pretty much just stood there asking for ID with one dude glancing into the nearby bedroom quickly. |
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Quoted: One of the other officers asks cro-magnon if he is ok. He says, “Yeah, I’m good, the fucking bitch is crazy.” Boy, the jury is going to love his caring concern for the dead lady. View Quote If only there was a book available to LARP'ers explaining how to deal with crazy bitches... Click To View Spoiler |
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Quoted: Well, I saw the first ten minutes before it got deleted. Did he get into the self defense aspects of a large man pointing a gun at you in your home and threatening to shoot you in the fucking face? The last I saw was him pointing out the vast disparity of size between the woman and Grayson. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Good analysis from an attorney/retired cop. His conclusion: the sociopath will stay in jail for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBbs08lMeOg Did he get into the self defense aspects of a large man pointing a gun at you in your home and threatening to shoot you in the fucking face? The last I saw was him pointing out the vast disparity of size between the woman and Grayson. |
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It is sad that people continue to try and justify this. If she had been your mom, wife, sister would you still be saying good shoot? Doubt it. Let's be honest, she is in your mind a crazy woman maybe on drugs so no big loss? Am I right?
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Quoted: Judging by that video breakdown, good shoot. For the Deputy, it sucks to be a political enemy of the state. He will ultimately be acquitted but his lively hood will be stripped from him and he will be a social pariah. Glad I have 32 years in with my agency. I can pull the plug at any time. *insert "It's gonna get a whole lot worse" meme here View Quote Derek Chauvin unavailable for comment. This jackass is going to swing, at least figuratively. |
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Quoted: It is sad that people continue to try and justify this. If she had been your mom, wife, sister would you still be saying good shoot? Doubt it. Let's be honest, she is in your mind a crazy woman maybe on drugs so no big loss? Am I right? View Quote I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. |
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Quoted: Not exactly. The issue is whether Officer Grayson's use of deadly force was objectively reasonable based on the facts and circumstances confronting him at the time the force was used. See, Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386, 397 (1989). A police officer may use deadly force if he has reasonable cause to believe that a suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm to the officer or others, and the officer, if feasible, warns the suspect before using deadly force. Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1, 11-12 (1985); Sherrod v. Berry, 856 F.2d 802, 805 (7th Cir.1988). The reasonableness of a police officer's use of deadly force "must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, ..." at the moment the force was used, and not in hindsight. Graham, 490 U.S. at 396. That is the controlling caselaw in the 7th circuit that will be applied, probably verbatim. If you look specifically at the Graham factors, two are automatically against any force at all being used - she wasn't under arrest and wasn't suspected of criminal activity at all, and thus she also couldn't have been resisting or evading arrest. That leaves the only possible justification as being the claim of immediate serious physical harm. Had she actually "come at him" with a pot of boiling water, that would be different. But he created distance, and maintained plenty of distance. Then instead of backing away, he appears to begin to advance on her right before firing, which the Illinois State Police expert concluded was akin to attempting to create justification by placing yourself in danger, such as in front of a moving car. And whether or not she grabbed and attempted to throw or dump the pot, I don't believe any reasonable person would have believed she posed an immediate serious threat of physical harm to anyone. At least not yet. If she grabbed the pot and advanced on him, as if to dump it on him or something, that would be a much different situation. Imagine if this was a paramedic in her home because she was suffering some episode and called 911, and she grabbed a pot and a non-LEO reacted in this way and shot her in the head... IMO, there would be no LEOS claiming it was justified. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: if he thought he was going to get splashed, why didn't he just back up? I may find a similar sized pot and fill it with hot water and see how far I (as a 6'4" 250 pound man) can throw it towards a mannequin or something. I think it would have been impossible to even reach him. Can anyone estimate the distance she was from the shooter? Mornin. Serious question, not stirring shit. The metric used is what would a reasonable officer do in the same situation. If the officer is found to be within the correct standards and guidelines, how do you proceed? Not exactly. The issue is whether Officer Grayson's use of deadly force was objectively reasonable based on the facts and circumstances confronting him at the time the force was used. See, Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386, 397 (1989). A police officer may use deadly force if he has reasonable cause to believe that a suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm to the officer or others, and the officer, if feasible, warns the suspect before using deadly force. Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1, 11-12 (1985); Sherrod v. Berry, 856 F.2d 802, 805 (7th Cir.1988). The reasonableness of a police officer's use of deadly force "must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, ..." at the moment the force was used, and not in hindsight. Graham, 490 U.S. at 396. That is the controlling caselaw in the 7th circuit that will be applied, probably verbatim. If you look specifically at the Graham factors, two are automatically against any force at all being used - she wasn't under arrest and wasn't suspected of criminal activity at all, and thus she also couldn't have been resisting or evading arrest. That leaves the only possible justification as being the claim of immediate serious physical harm. Had she actually "come at him" with a pot of boiling water, that would be different. But he created distance, and maintained plenty of distance. Then instead of backing away, he appears to begin to advance on her right before firing, which the Illinois State Police expert concluded was akin to attempting to create justification by placing yourself in danger, such as in front of a moving car. And whether or not she grabbed and attempted to throw or dump the pot, I don't believe any reasonable person would have believed she posed an immediate serious threat of physical harm to anyone. At least not yet. If she grabbed the pot and advanced on him, as if to dump it on him or something, that would be a much different situation. Imagine if this was a paramedic in her home because she was suffering some episode and called 911, and she grabbed a pot and a non-LEO reacted in this way and shot her in the head... IMO, there would be no LEOS claiming it was justified. I’ve been mucho busy over the last 2 days and haven’t had time to follow up. Thank you for answering. |
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Quoted: I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. View Quote My point is people just don't care about the facts because they are dismissive of the victim. She doesn't matter to them so the facts don't matter |
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Quoted: I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: It is sad that people continue to try and justify this. If she had been your mom, wife, sister would you still be saying good shoot? Doubt it. Let's be honest, she is in your mind a crazy woman maybe on drugs so no big loss? Am I right? I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. We all know one of the big reasons a few guys here are saying good shoot (and always do in cases like this), and we also know for nearly certain they wouldn't be saying it if the victim was their own wife or daughter. |
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Quoted: I think the question is more about injecting a tiny bit of humanity into the discussion. We all know one of the big reasons a few guys here are saying good shoot (and always do in cases like this), and we also know for nearly certain they wouldn't be saying it if the victim was their own wife or daughter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is sad that people continue to try and justify this. If she had been your mom, wife, sister would you still be saying good shoot? Doubt it. Let's be honest, she is in your mind a crazy woman maybe on drugs so no big loss? Am I right? I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. We all know one of the big reasons a few guys here are saying good shoot (and always do in cases like this), and we also know for nearly certain they wouldn't be saying it if the victim was their own wife or daughter. Annecdote, and one off, so not worth much, but I did have an acquaintance who insisted he would never chance killing someone even if they were attacking someone like his mother or sister. It was better to him to let them suffer the attack than risk killing the attacker. |
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Quoted: I think the question is more about injecting a tiny bit of humanity into the discussion. We all know one of the big reasons a few guys here are saying good shoot (and always do in cases like this), and we also know for nearly certain they wouldn't be saying it if the victim was their own wife or daughter. View Quote this is fair & accurate as well. |
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Quoted: Judging by that video breakdown, good shoot. For the Deputy, it sucks to be a political enemy of the state. He will ultimately be acquitted but his lively hood will be stripped from him and he will be a social pariah. Glad I have 32 years in with my agency. I can pull the plug at any time. *insert "It's gonna get a whole lot worse" meme here View Quote After it gets worse, maybe it will get better. Can you imagine a force of well trained professionals that take pride in doing the correct thing? |
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First, the lack of compassion and respect for life is disturbing. Even if she was a threat, and the instigator, why shoot her in the face.
Second, not only the cop should get "the chair", the person that hired him should also. Third, cops are the king's men. The hiring process should be highly selective. My daughter is studying for the LSAT. I was at the library with her and picked up a study guide for the police entrance exam. It covered arithmetic. Seriously? They are hiring literally morons. The bar should be much higher, both from an intellectual stand point and a mental stability standpoint. As soon as a cop loses the servant mentality, he should be fired. People who fly the Gadsen flag along side the thin blue line are sadly misled. Who do you think are going to tread on you. It will be the cops. Further, stop with the job is so dangerous, gotta get home at night, we are warrior nonsense. I stopped thanking cops and the military for their service. They are paid handsomely with cash and benefits. With the exception of SF/Special Operations guys, most are whores living off the system, not really any different from welfare recipients they love to harass. |
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Quoted: 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 View Quote The cop told her he was going to shoot her in her face. She said she was sorry and was cowering on the ground. The cop kept yelling at her as he was moving forward pointing the gun at her. She was so scared and confused her natural reaction was to try to cower behind the pot. At this point she was in fear of her life, she thought she was going to get shot in the face and that's when the first shot was fired. Attached File |
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Quoted: My point is people just don't care about the facts because they are dismissive of the victim. She doesn't matter to them so the facts don't matter View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I don't like the "If it was a relative" view because that attempts to influence the decision with emotion. From a rational perspective this was a bad shoot. My point is people just don't care about the facts because they are dismissive of the victim. She doesn't matter to them so the facts don't matter IMHO the issue with this case is that it was a bad shoot, and also not first degree murder. Some people are tired of the political persecution of police officers in this country, some people are tired of the growing 'shoot first ask questions later, just get home safe' mentality of police officers these days. This case brings both sides to the table. |
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Quoted: I'd give the cop the benefit of the doubt. He was instructing her to put it down the sink, she became non compliant, she sought cover, she made sudden movements while holding the pot. Sucks, but that's what it looks like to me. Kharn View Quote Sad situation, and cop was an A-hole, but that's what I saw too. No way he should have been charged. |
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Quoted: IMHO the issue with this case is that it was a bad shoot, and also not first degree murder. Some people are tired of the political persecution of police officers in this country, some people are tired of the growing 'shoot first ask questions later, just get home safe' mentality of police officers these days. This case brings both sides to the table. View Quote Nah. He sad he was going to kill her in a specific way, and did just that moments later. That meets a reasonable definition of premeditation. |
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The deputy charged with the killing of Massey was discharged from the U.S. Army for “serious misconduct” in 2016 and held six different police jobs in the last four years, ABC News has learned.
New details about Sonya Massey shooting |
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Quoted: The cop told her he was going to shoot her in her face. She said she was sorry and was cowering on the ground. The cop kept yelling at her as he was moving forward pointing the gun at her. She was so scared and confused her natural reaction was to try to cower behind the pot. At this point she was in fear of her life, she thought she was going to get shot in the face and that's when the first shot was fired. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32274/Screenshot_2024-07-26_at_08-13-08_REAL_L-3277413.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 The cop told her he was going to shoot her in her face. She said she was sorry and was cowering on the ground. The cop kept yelling at her as he was moving forward pointing the gun at her. She was so scared and confused her natural reaction was to try to cower behind the pot. At this point she was in fear of her life, she thought she was going to get shot in the face and that's when the first shot was fired. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32274/Screenshot_2024-07-26_at_08-13-08_REAL_L-3277413.JPG |
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The Sonya Massey Tragedy Our Thoughts |
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'Enough is enough': father of Sonya Massey speaks out after release of bodycam footage |
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Quoted: Sad situation, and cop was an A-hole, but that's what I saw too. No way he should have been charged. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'd give the cop the benefit of the doubt. He was instructing her to put it down the sink, she became non compliant, she sought cover, she made sudden movements while holding the pot. Sucks, but that's what it looks like to me. Kharn Sad situation, and cop was an A-hole, but that's what I saw too. No way he should have been charged. Not what I saw Seems like he freaked out because of words and then naturally she got scared and moved around. It wasn't necessary to shoot. |
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View Quote Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. |
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Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn't help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn't help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. |
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Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. |
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Quoted: 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Criminal Lawyer Reacts & Analyzes the Bodycam Footage of Sonjya Massey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjOg4gbQ3aY 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 Lol, the lawyer who thinks Shaver was a good shoot. Let me guess.... she should have complied harder! |
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Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. View Quote So all the people in this thread (the vast majority) who think it's a bad shoot, only feel that way because it's an election year.....lol If you don't have the best relationship with someone, you shouldn't care that they're shot in the face because someone doesn't know what the word rebuke means.....great take. ETA: Nothing has negatively affected my opinion of police more than cops on this board |
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Quoted: You can see the whole thing. She pops up, raises it above her head and chucks it at them.
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You need to see the other bodycam. She was also throwing a pot of boiling water at them when they shot her. You can see the steam coming up from it at the edge of the kitchen floor.
Yeah she fafo, but....... seeing as she missed and it would take 10min to reload her boiling water weapon, what was the point of shooting her after the fact? If she had a knife or gun, fine, smoke her. Her swing and miss water trick was over when they ventilated her. |
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Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. View Quote How do we know that they didn't care about her or help her when she was alive? It's not the nicest place. But she appears to be relatively stable in it. I mean I get it folks. Yes she's black. But other than the "rebuke" line everything was normal with her. In fact I can only assume the reason so many believe this was some sort of ambush is because she's black. Reverse race here and it's just your normal single woman who called the cops because she got scared. As I'm not going to assume some white chick in the same situation was throwing the pot so much as shielding herself with it. |
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Quoted: Sad situation, and cop was an A-hole, but that's what I saw too. No way he should have been charged. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I'd give the cop the benefit of the doubt. He was instructing her to put it down the sink, she became non compliant, she sought cover, she made sudden movements while holding the pot. Sucks, but that's what it looks like to me. Kharn Sad situation, and cop was an A-hole, but that's what I saw too. No way he should have been charged. He threatened her with death before she did any of those things. She would have been within her right to shoot the cop. |
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Quoted: This huge guy was in fear of his life from this little old lady. https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/87db00f/2147483647/thumbnail/970x647/quality/85/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fcmsmedia%2F70%2F5c3c5a695eb12468f4325b98452895%2F9fbf2916b3274a368ac8c945c69eb0daDeputy_Shooting_911_Response_78108.jpg And now look at him https://bostonglobe-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/v2/WC663UJJ2K2JQQY6GYHAWGD7IA.jpg?auth=f3a72848220d5fe97e16d8cbb00eb106a55d679ad3ebc4007d3090e1d6ad6cda&width=1440 View Quote The whole more skulls than a SS uniform look is not helping him. |
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Quoted: Ahhhh the family that cared so much they didn’t help her when she was alive but now that they can collect a check with Ben crump are very super angry. You guys fall for this shit every election cycle. Wait until the next extra deadly disease shows up any day now. View Quote On what are you basing your first sentence or is this just another example of police creative writing? |
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Quoted: Lol, the lawyer who thinks Shaver was a good shoot. Let me guess.... she should have complied harder! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Criminal Lawyer Reacts & Analyzes the Bodycam Footage of Sonjya Massey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjOg4gbQ3aY 40 min and still doesn’t show the video of her throwing the pot of boiling water. ETA here’s a lawyer that doesn’t just chase settlements. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crviPQk2ox0 Lol, the lawyer who thinks Shaver was a good shoot. Let me guess.... she should have complied harder! Attached File |
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The cop is twice her size and weighs three times as much. He towers over her. After watching the video, there was very little water in the pot, it didn’t land anywhere close to him, and she is dead. The water was already thrown when he shot her. What threat did she really pose? Would any of us would have shot her in the head over this??
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Quoted: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. Quoted: Do you believe that the sheriff is an officer who's word should be trusted like other cops? Quoted: It's okay. At least he didn't murder anyone over it. |
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Quoted: @Mods Will you please police the damn troll? He is continuously arguing against all facts presented to him in an effort to be an ass. View Quote You just joined the site a few months ago, and you're already tattling to get the mods to censor someone else from saying something you don't like? |
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Massey went to turn off the flame and picked up the pot. She asked where the deputies were going, to which Grayson replied, "Away from your hot, steaming water." Massey replied, "Away from my hot, steaming water?" and then twice said, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus." View Quote And isn't the phrase "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus" used in Christian contexts to express disapproval? |
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