User Panel
Life member of CRPA. FPC contributor.
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S&W Sigma > Glock 17
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1911. It is the template that nearly all modern pistol designs are based on, and still possesses the best trigger of any handgun in history.
I would give my left nut to see what John Browning could do with modern design, material, and manufacturing technology. The man hand-crafted prototype firearms in the 1800’s out of iron and wood with simple hand tools, and he still had a ludicrous number of design patents. What could he do with CAD, CHF barrels, CNC machined 7075 aluminum, 3D printed polymers, and 3D laser sintered titanium? |
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Winner of Most FPNI 2018, 2022, 2023
KS, USA
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Of those two, the hi-power.
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Make Occam's Razor Great Again
It's not about if you win or lose. It's about how many rules they have to add afterwards. |
The one that is in your hand when you desperately need it.
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<placeholder for something good in the future>
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Everybody knows the answer to this question, even if they don’t want to admit it.
The 1911 isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty damn close. |
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Originally Posted By SigSauerLover: https://www.sigsauer.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2f7933e2ff16f0ec074a16ab6b6195f2/p/2/p226-elite-left_1.jpg /thread View Quote I am having a very difficult time disagreeing with this. But I am also enamored with my G35. |
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Let's get after it.
For the glory of the empire, so say we all. I collect blank posts and use them |
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The 1911 made its mark in history no doubt about it. It may be the greatest but not the best. That goes to the Sig P-210 and its lineage.
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The Devil owns the fence line.
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1911 enough said.
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Montani Semper Liberi
Deuteronomy 31:6 ~ Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you. He will not leave you or forsake you.” |
Winner of Most FPNI 2018, 2022, 2023
KS, USA
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The 1911 is a cult.
JMB's magnum opus is the Hi-Power. The proof is in how every pistol today is a doublestack 9. Not a single stack 45. |
Make Occam's Razor Great Again
It's not about if you win or lose. It's about how many rules they have to add afterwards. |
Originally Posted By Mike_314: It's an automatic AND a revolver! Ha! Beat that! https://www.shootingillustrated.com/media/py2fwamv/webly.jpg View Quote And most importantly it looks cool as fuck. |
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You don't learn to fight, your death's going to come real soon.
Then how come he's dead? He wanted it that way. |
1. 1911
2. Walther p38 3. Glock |
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" Don't cry, nobody shoots Glocks anymore."
"But the new Admin. is a Master in IDPA" "MASTER in IDPA..." "is like C Class in IPSC!" |
Originally Posted By warkittens: I could have been the Hi Power if it had the 1911 trigger. I like the feel of the BHP in hand but the 1911 trigger is the tits. View Quote For Me, the BHP was the most naturally pointing pistol I've ever owned. But I HATED the safety. You had to have fingers like a chipmunk to actuate it - what a shitty design. Perfect you ask??? The Hi Power with the 1911 slide cut and safety, in 9mm - OMG.. Pertfect Pistol. All that I could ever ask for. The "upgraded" BHP, with the same funky safety and an extended lever is still worthless in my eyes. |
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"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" - Rudyard Kipling
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Originally Posted By TheRealBluedog: Both of the choices were great handguns. View Quote Both choices were adequate for the time they were designed. They live on under the glow of their fanboys' rose colored glasses now. There are far better choices today. If the High Power and 1911 ceased to exist, I'd say "huh" and go about my day. |
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We don't come alone; we are fire, we are stone.
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Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: The 1911 is a cult. JMB's magnum opus is the Hi-Power. The proof is in how every pistol today is a doublestack 9. Not a single stack 45. View Quote That wasn’t really his choice. The doublestack magazine was already created, and the requirements he was given pretty much required it My hi power is neat, but my 1911s are way better |
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Winner of Most FPNI 2018, 2022, 2023
KS, USA
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Originally Posted By Happy_Hour_Hero: That wasn’t really his choice. The doublestack magazine was already created, and the requirements he was given pretty much required it My hi power is neat, but my 1911s are way better View Quote If you knew you were about to get into a gunfight, but didn't know what kind and you were offered a hipower and a 1911, which one would you take? |
Make Occam's Razor Great Again
It's not about if you win or lose. It's about how many rules they have to add afterwards. |
Colt 2000
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Originally Posted By SigSauerLover: https://www.sigsauer.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2f7933e2ff16f0ec074a16ab6b6195f2/p/2/p226-elite-left_1.jpg /thread View Quote Do want. |
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It's both. JMB beget the 1911 and began work on the Hi Power with it's double-stack magazine.
Despite this allegedly being the "era of the striker-fired, semi-automatic handgun" we are almost daily seeing new versions of double-stack 1911-style guns. Attached File |
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"An age of glory passed like a lightning flash. The mandate of heaven passed from you but you didn't see. Times change and power passes. It is the pity of the world."
Song dynasty poet |
CZ75
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The Hi-Power is cool, but on ratted out older guns, the trigger transfer bar being in the slide makes for a lot of wobble. When you take up the slack and the slide visibly moves, I don't like the design. I know it was done to get around Browning's patents with Colt, but I don't like it. I think he was handicapped because of it.
I've never seen the transfer bar itself be rattily, but the slide to frame fit can be a little lose. It just makes for a poor trigger feel and when you can watch the slide move upwards as you pull the trigger... Also not a big fan of the press fit of the trigger pin. You have to be careful not to mar the frame when removing it. Attached File |
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You seem to have mis-read my question. I didn't ask what the DUMBEST handgun ever designed was. If that had been the question, then the P210 would absolutely be a contender. |
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“A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.” -- Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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“A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams.” -- Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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Both were game changers but I’d say the 1911 had the bigger impact on pistol technology.
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https://instagram.com/_odiegreen_?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==
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1911 was so classic, they named the year after it.
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http://www.guntechtips.com
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Grande Puissance
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Brought back from the beyond to be a half-dead short-bus riding seat warmer in the Dracula factory.
Esteemed grain-grower & reactionary defender of True Justice, in a death struggle with the Karen quo. *Do not Karen-tinize the Eschaton!!!* |
i'm your huckleberry. that's just my game.
MT, USA
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BHP
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I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their shitpoast. - sierra-def
membership courtesy of TMS. thanks buddy! |
1911. As it's action is the most copied.
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The voices in my head say I’m just being paranoid
KY, USA
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Originally Posted By RocketmanOU: @Sputnik556 First off, let's talk heritage. The 1911 is the battle-hardened granddaddy of all modern handguns. It’s been around longer than most of us have been alive, and it doesn’t need flashy new tricks or Italian aesthetics to make an impression. The Beretta 92? Sure, it's sleek, it's shiny, it’s the pistol your rich uncle brags about at Thanksgiving. But the 1911? That’s the pistol that your great-grandfather carried through two world wars and probably used to crack a Nazi’s skull when he ran out of ammo. Speaking of ammo, can we please talk about the .45 ACP? The 1911 doesn’t mess around with those dainty 9mm rounds like the Beretta 92 does. If you want to scare someone with the sound of your weapon alone, rack that 1911 slide and let the .45 speak for itself. It’s like a sledgehammer compared to a butter knife. With the 1911, you don’t have to double-tap—because that sucker isn’t getting back up. Reliability? The 1911 is like that old pickup truck that’s never been washed, but it’ll start every time and get the job done, no questions asked. The Beretta 92? Look, it might work fine at the range when it’s freshly cleaned and lubed, but good luck when it’s dirty, wet, or when you’ve got a little dust in the chamber. The 1911? It'll keep firing, come rain, mud, or Armageddon. And let’s not even get started on the trigger. The 1911’s trigger pull is as smooth as a Sinatra ballad, while the Beretta 92’s double-action feels like pulling a piano up a hill. If you want precision, accuracy, and a trigger you’ll dream about at night, you go 1911. The Beretta’s trigger is decent, sure—if you enjoy second place. Look, I get it, the Beretta has 15+ rounds in the mag, but that’s because you’re gonna need 15 rounds with that anemic 9mm. Meanwhile, with the 1911, you’ve got seven rounds of "I don't have time for your nonsense." Less is more when each shot feels like you’re firing mini-cannonballs. In the end, the 1911 is the Clint Eastwood of pistols—old, grizzled, and not here for your modern excuses. The Beretta 92 is the equivalent of a Euro sports car: flashy, fancy, and a little too proud of itself. Sure, it’s nice on a Sunday drive, but when the chips are down and you need something dependable, you’ll be reaching for that good ol’ slab of American steel every time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RocketmanOU: Originally Posted By Sputnik556: 92 Fight me @Sputnik556 First off, let's talk heritage. The 1911 is the battle-hardened granddaddy of all modern handguns. It’s been around longer than most of us have been alive, and it doesn’t need flashy new tricks or Italian aesthetics to make an impression. The Beretta 92? Sure, it's sleek, it's shiny, it’s the pistol your rich uncle brags about at Thanksgiving. But the 1911? That’s the pistol that your great-grandfather carried through two world wars and probably used to crack a Nazi’s skull when he ran out of ammo. Speaking of ammo, can we please talk about the .45 ACP? The 1911 doesn’t mess around with those dainty 9mm rounds like the Beretta 92 does. If you want to scare someone with the sound of your weapon alone, rack that 1911 slide and let the .45 speak for itself. It’s like a sledgehammer compared to a butter knife. With the 1911, you don’t have to double-tap—because that sucker isn’t getting back up. Reliability? The 1911 is like that old pickup truck that’s never been washed, but it’ll start every time and get the job done, no questions asked. The Beretta 92? Look, it might work fine at the range when it’s freshly cleaned and lubed, but good luck when it’s dirty, wet, or when you’ve got a little dust in the chamber. The 1911? It'll keep firing, come rain, mud, or Armageddon. And let’s not even get started on the trigger. The 1911’s trigger pull is as smooth as a Sinatra ballad, while the Beretta 92’s double-action feels like pulling a piano up a hill. If you want precision, accuracy, and a trigger you’ll dream about at night, you go 1911. The Beretta’s trigger is decent, sure—if you enjoy second place. Look, I get it, the Beretta has 15+ rounds in the mag, but that’s because you’re gonna need 15 rounds with that anemic 9mm. Meanwhile, with the 1911, you’ve got seven rounds of "I don't have time for your nonsense." Less is more when each shot feels like you’re firing mini-cannonballs. In the end, the 1911 is the Clint Eastwood of pistols—old, grizzled, and not here for your modern excuses. The Beretta 92 is the equivalent of a Euro sports car: flashy, fancy, and a little too proud of itself. Sure, it’s nice on a Sunday drive, but when the chips are down and you need something dependable, you’ll be reaching for that good ol’ slab of American steel every time. |
If you aren't representing Jesus in a way that makes people want to hang out with you, you're doing it wrong.
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Glock 17/19 is the greatest ever designed.
Not only did they create the game, it hasn't been or can be topped. |
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Originally Posted By TheRealBluedog: Here we go again. Whenever you post a thread like this all you’re going to do is get a bunch of people nominating their favorite pistol. Before we can even have this discussion, we have to agree on what “greatest” means. Greatest does not necessarily mean best. To me, greatest means the handgun design had the largest overall impact on subsequent handgun designs. Both of the choices were great handguns. There’s no doubt about that. But when it comes to great-est, there can only be one. That is the Glock 17. No I do not own one anymore, no it is not my favorite, and no it is not the best. But it is the greatest. Here’s why. When the Glock 17 appeared on the market, there was nothing else like it. You HK fanboys can shut the fuck up. There was nothing like the Glock 17 when it appeared. Within a few years, every single MAJOR manufacturer had introduced or was working on a compact polymer framed high capacity 9 mm semi automatic that was striker fired, with no external safeties. In other words, literally every major manufacturer came out with their version of the Glock. You can’t say that about the 1911, you can’t say that about the high-power, you can’t say that about any other handgun of modern times. One handgun came along and completely changed the handgun market. That was the Glock 17. View Quote About the only accuracy in this statement is every major manufacturer makes a composite framed striker fired pistol. Neither category was novel on the release of the Glock 17 and if a detailed review is conducted mechanisms used in a Glock are some of the least copied in the industry outside of legitimate gen 3 compatible clone guns (which are typically only made by companies without the engineering bandwidth to develop a new product and instead slap lipstick on loosely “reverse engineered” pigs with new branding). The only thing Glock really did was execute one of the greatest marketing and lobbying campaigns in the history of firearms which hasn’t been topped until very recently with sig. (who at least does attempt to push development at least somewhat in addition to their marketing and lobbying) It’s a solid firearm which followed the principles of simple = best, and there are some actual novel systems in it that people rarely give credit to, but it’s a bit disingenuous to give it claim over polymer framed striker fired pistols wholesale. |
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When the chips are down the buffalo's empty
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Originally Posted By maxima2: Originally Posted By Firestarter123: Dan Wesson DWX It combines the best attributes of the 1911 with the best attributes of the CZ75. https://nextcloud.fstech.ltd/s/ZLqbsbF3EbGLNz3/preview Serious. I’m sure as hell no Gaston or browning, but I do appreciate a fan. |
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When the chips are down the buffalo's empty
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A lot of historical inaccuracies in this thread…
Browning is only partially responsible for the hi power. The original browning designed gun is very much different than what we know today as a Hi Power. Yes he had to avoid patent infringement on the hi power prototypes (which again are totally unlike a production Hi Power). He died in 1926 and the 1911 patents expired in the late ‘20s. Dieudonné Saive (of FAL fame), picked up the project and incorporated many of the (now expired) 1911 patents into the design. Saive is much more responsible for the BHP than browning. The Browning nomenclature was tacked onto it because it sold extremely well (for obvious reasons). I voted 1911 because it was the first handgun to set the standard for which every successful design has followed. The BHP is probably my favorite pistol of all time but the 1911 is truly the more influential gun. The fact that the 1911 patents had to expire to even finish the BHP design successfully is testament to this |
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This is... difficult. I like them both. I own two of each, a vintage example and a modern one.
I like the Hi Power better as an actual handgun, but realize the 1911 is probably more historically significant. Also the P210 is just an oversized/overbuilt PA Mle 1935A. |
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Originally Posted By Kingdead: The Hi-Power is cool, but on ratted out older guns, the trigger transfer bar being in the slide makes for a lot of wobble. When you take up the slack and the slide visibly moves, I don't like the design. I know it was done to get around Browning's patents with Colt, but I don't like it. I think he was handicapped because of it. I've never seen the transfer bar itself be rattily, but the slide to frame fit can be a little lose. It just makes for a poor trigger feel and when you can watch the slide move upwards as you pull the trigger... Also not a big fan of the press fit of the trigger pin. You have to be careful not to mar the frame when removing it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/346870/hpppp_jpg-3319645.JPG View Quote …and it’s still 1000000000 times better than the Glock LOL |
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hurr durr still beating Hi-Power
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"I got this. We'll skip the dicks" DK-Prof 12/7/21
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Any design that last over a 100 years and still produced by dozens of manufacturers, has to be pretty solid.
Small, medium and large in single and double stack. 9mm, 45 acp, 10mm, 38 super and a couple others. The 1911 has stood the test of time. It is the greatest handgun design ever. |
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Please help St Jude children's hospital.
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Originally Posted By Useafortyfive: II voted 1911 but It’s hard to argue with the simplicity of what Gaston Glock did. View Quote This is one of the biggest things, but only known to those who can and do take things completely apart, and put them back together. GG really pared things down to the minimum and kept it simple, which is probably one of the biggest factors in their reliability. |
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How about a soulless Glock 17
Or a Kimber 1911? |
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Originally Posted By TheRealBluedog: Maybe you’re trying to be funny, but this overrated pistol sucked so bad, hardly anywhere made, it’s no longer in production, and even though the patents have long since expired, not even the turks will copy it. If it’s so great, why isn’t it in production? Pretty much every other gun being disgusting this thread is still in production. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TheRealBluedog: Originally Posted By 1Bigdog: P7M13 Maybe you’re trying to be funny, but this overrated pistol sucked so bad, hardly anywhere made, it’s no longer in production, and even though the patents have long since expired, not even the turks will copy it. If it’s so great, why isn’t it in production? Pretty much every other gun being disgusting this thread is still in production. Talk-to-text really has a tough time if you speak too fast, and your words run together |
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That cool one with the 4 barrels in .357.
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Hmmm, I'd say put me in the CZ75 camp.
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pow. right in the kisser
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It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
OH, USA
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For auto pistols, that argument could be made, since they've only been improved upon by capacity and materials.
The smokeless powder revolver would be my pick. |
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Neither of those trash guns, Gaston Glock made the perfect handgun.
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