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Maniac has responded with a scornful remark
USA
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Around here you are asked if you have any medical conditions/injuries that prevent you from doing a given test. If you say that you do; that test isnt given View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: Balance, 1 foot, walking heal to toe. Anything that would make me tilt my head back possibly without showing a balance issue. From a brain injury in 2015 has caused balance issues and another injury in 2010 caused some issues with my leg/ ankle. Around here you are asked if you have any medical conditions/injuries that prevent you from doing a given test. If you say that you do; that test isnt given I don't answer questions. |
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Originally Posted By swolliepop: bet you or average person couldn't pass FSTs sober. and i'm talking about one you've NEVER had administered, not one you've given 50-100x before so you've memorized it. look at FWC, no way someone sober can remember 4 steps with all the mumble jumble. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By swolliepop: bet you or average person couldn't pass FSTs sober. and i'm talking about one you've NEVER had administered, not one you've given 50-100x before so you've memorized it. look at FWC, no way someone sober can remember 4 steps with all the mumble jumble. The thing is, the test is not the test. Originally Posted By Jeff_1: There are a lot of medical conditions people have that can cause someone to automatically think they are impaired. If you are suffering from something, like DKA, that mimics being impaired, you should not be driving because the end result is no one cares why you can't hold it between the lines, just that you do. Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: I've been unable to find any cases with some searching. If this was a real problem I would suspect it would be easy to find at least one. Insurance companies and ADAs aren't making the arrests. Accept responsibility for your actions. lol Police officers follow laws, regulations, policy and procedure. If higher authority tells you that you'll be held liable for letting someone go that was borderline, then you will either follow direction or you will be removed as a member. Just like in your career field. Got a doctors' appointment, wish me luck! |
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America, turn to God because only He can save us!
TN, USA
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Originally Posted By Jeff_1: I can't go to work with a dui charge and I would not be paid. I do t know how many months it would take to get it dropped and finished with court. It would be devastating and there would be no guarantee I would still have a job when it's all said and done. Do better. View Quote |
And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.-- Acts 2:21
"The only reason after 248 years that the Government now wants to disarm you, is they intend to do something you would shoot them for." |
Originally Posted By dyezak: I've been there twice. Sorry to break it to you. 2003 arrested for PI (Fredrick MD) and 2008, arrested for DUI (Dallas TX). Neither time did I have a lick of anything in my system. Was I outraged in the moment? YEP! But here's a shocker, I was never out any money or anything other than my time (which sucked). In 2003 they "smelled alcohol on me" after my friend certainly did spill his drink on me. I went to the station, blew in their calibrated machine thing, registered 0.00% and they let me go about my business. In 2008 I was driving tired, fell asleep, the officer thought I was on something. I blew 0.00%, did a blood draw, it came back negative, and I went off about my business. These things aren't impactful to your lives. It's about the same amount of aggravation as getting in a wreck that isn't your fault. View Quote Yeah, that's great and all, but it has very little in common with having to go to court and be cleared there like you first mentioned. Hate to break it to you... |
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Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don’t drink but I couldn’t pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. View Quote I had a co-worker go through this. He had a real bad knee and pass a field sobriety test. It cost him $14k for the trial and this was the 90’s |
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Maniac has responded with a scornful remark
USA
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Originally Posted By high_order1: lol Police officers follow laws, regulations, policy and procedure. If higher authority tells you that you'll be held liable for letting someone go that was borderline, then you will either follow direction or you will be removed as a member. Just like in your career field. ... View Quote You just said the quiet part out loud. Luckily "I was just following orders" is always a good defense in court or one's own conscious. |
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: which test couldnt you pass and why? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don't drink but I couldn't pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. which test couldnt you pass and why? Those field sobriety tests are bullshit. I couldn't pass one either. I couldn't walk a straight line, especially trying to go heel to toe. I doubt I could close my eyes and touch any part of my body without falling over. I've watched a bunch of them on YouTube. Even if you do them correctly the officer will keep stopping you to tell you to do them differently or whatnot. I don't know what the purpose is, especially when someone is totally shit faced and they continue to try to get them to do the field sobriety test. |
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Originally Posted By 797hp: If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 797hp: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don’t drink but I couldn’t pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that lol |
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It's time to get ill
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Originally Posted By FunYun1983: All those people blew zero and still got arrested. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By FunYun1983: Originally Posted By 797hp: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don’t drink but I couldn’t pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that All those people blew zero and still got arrested. Umm...no. Those are lab results, which means bloods tests. This isn't a good number, but it can be a couple to a few hours until blood is drawn sometimes depends on numerous factors. This just means the BAC lowered in that amount of time. This is clickbait and over exaggeration to continue anti-LE narrative. |
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Originally Posted By high_order1: Sure they can, and do. The thing is, the test is not the test. If you are suffering from something, like DKA, that mimics being impaired, you should not be driving because the end result is no one cares why you can't hold it between the lines, just that you do. lol Police officers follow laws, regulations, policy and procedure. If higher authority tells you that you'll be held liable for letting someone go that was borderline, then you will either follow direction or you will be removed as a member. Just like in your career field. Got a doctors' appointment, wish me luck! View Quote |
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Well respected cult leader.
Also Knight of Wonder. |
Originally Posted By dyezak: Bro, they are (on average) 99.4% correct on their arrests. Are you complaining about the 600 people over 8 years that were found to be not under the influence being arrested? In ANY industry, getting your job right 99.4% of the time is fucking fantastic. In law enforcement, that's spectacular. I'm just struggling to see the outrage here. You were arrested, found innocent, no conviction means no loss of job/income/insurance. Is the act of the arrest and the time lost the problem? I mean, that does suck but again...only 00.6% of people are falling into that category...that's not egregious. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dyezak: Originally Posted By PacNW5: It’s amazing to me what people will tolerate from their local law enforcement. https://www.wsmv.com/2024/11/04/wsmv4-investigates-uncovers-more-than-600-cases-sober-drivers-arrested-dui-tennessee/ WSMV4 Investigates’ reporting found a backlog of alcohol and toxicology tests at the TBI means innocent drivers are losing their jobs and insurance while they wait to clear their names. The TBI data shows the arrest of sober drivers happened one or less than one percent of the time in that time frame. The vast majority of DUI arrests resulted in either alcohol or drugs found in the driver’s system. But because there are so many DUI arrests, an average of 15,000 a year, that one percent has resulted in hundreds of arrests of sober drivers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7dWEL0Puq4 Bro, they are (on average) 99.4% correct on their arrests. Are you complaining about the 600 people over 8 years that were found to be not under the influence being arrested? In ANY industry, getting your job right 99.4% of the time is fucking fantastic. In law enforcement, that's spectacular. I'm just struggling to see the outrage here. You were arrested, found innocent, no conviction means no loss of job/income/insurance. Is the act of the arrest and the time lost the problem? I mean, that does suck but again...only 00.6% of people are falling into that category...that's not egregious. That’s pathetic. |
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It's time to get ill
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Originally Posted By high_order1: If you are suffering from something, like DKA, that mimics being impaired, you should not be driving because the end result is no one cares why you can't hold it between the lines, just that you do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By high_order1: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: There are a lot of medical conditions people have that can cause someone to automatically think they are impaired. If you are suffering from something, like DKA, that mimics being impaired, you should not be driving because the end result is no one cares why you can't hold it between the lines, just that you do. I don’t know what DKA is, I don’t have that. Be a little more open minded. |
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Originally Posted By gitarmac: I couldn't walk a straight line, especially trying to go heel to toe. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By gitarmac: I couldn't walk a straight line, especially trying to go heel to toe. do you have some kind of physical issue preventing you from doing that? eta - as I stated before you should be asked about pre-existing injuries and whatnot. If you move as if you've been struck lame then I doubt you'd even be asked to do a test that your infirmity would obviously influence. Even if you do them correctly the officer will keep stopping you to tell you to do them differently or whatnot. Have an example of this? That doesnt match what I've seen here and would actually harm building PC |
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I could post egregious videos all day long. Many times these are the same bad cops who do it numerous times, such as this one.
1 officer arrests 3 sober drivers for DUI They're dumb, and yet they think they are some sort of sobriety experts, who can instantly recognize when someone has ingested some intoxicant. Most of this is all "had a hunch" bullshit. Then when they get it wrong.... oh well. Didn't cost them anything... No consequences. Then I could also post videos all day long of cops themselves getting out of DUIs when they clearly appear to be blitzed. |
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Well respected cult leader.
Also Knight of Wonder. |
Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: do you have some kind of physical issue preventing you from doing that? Have an example of this? That doesnt match what I've seen here and would actually harm building PC View Quote Are you a healthcare professional? Not trying to be a dick, but expecting people to supply personal medical info is silly. All this thread has shown me is that if LEO wants to push the FST issue, is that complaining of chest pains is the simplest solution. A trip in an ambulance and hanging out around the ER for a blood test would be both cheaper and more comfortable than being processed through booking at your local jail/ADC. |
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Originally Posted By 797hp: If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that View Quote As I understand it a field breathalyzer is only an indicator, the official standard one is at the station. So you have been arrested , cuffed and taken to the station you get ot blow in a big calibrated legal machine. AND DUI isn't exclusive to booze,3 shots of nyquil would easily make you unsafe to drive but wouldnt show up on a breathalizer, same with 5 oxy pills, both are CLEARLY unsafe to drive but wont show up on a breathalizer. Imagine arrested, then taken to station, no numbers on breathalizer, cop swears out a warrent and you have to get stuck by a midnight ER nurse(questionable sticking ability) to get a blood sample, THEN you gotta wait till it comes back from the lab. sounds peachy... there needs to be a 2 way street there if cops start fishing expeditions in greater than a certain number of circumstances they need to have their official pension, or even coffee fund at station raided to reimburse those people who get wrongly screwed. |
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Here's how I've internalized stories like this over the years, and applied it to my daily life moving forward:
Context: I do not drink and drive. I don't go to bars, I don't order drinks at restaurants if I'm going to be driving home, and I don't drink at a friend or family members house if I'm going to be driving home. I don't even keep alcohol in my own house anymore these days (unless I need a bottle of wine for a recipe or something), so if I get good and tanked - it's going to be on a camping trip or something along those lines. I'll have slept it off long before I got behind the wheel. I don't smoke weed, and I'm not on any medications - prescribed or otherwise. If I am ever suspected of DUI at some point in the future, the officer making that determination will be, 100%, unequivocally...wrong about it. I will be stone cold sober. Actionable: There is no way in which performing field sobriety tests, while stone cold sober and being observed by somebody who strongly suspects I'm not sober, will make me appear any less sober than I already am. There exists a possibility, however remote, that the officer performing the tests will observe some minor detail that confirms what he already suspected anyway. Again - he will be doing this, while investigating a completely sober person. So I'm not going to do them. In effect, he suspects that I'm impaired, and he's asking me to provide him additional evidence of that. I will politely decline, thank you. At this point, I will probably be arrested for DUI anyway. I might not be (which would be great), but I'd expect to be. I won't be happy about it, but I can't make him not do that if he really wants to. I will be driven to the station, and I will be given an opportunity to blow after I get there. I will absolutely do that, and it will absolutely show 0.00%. There is no chance of me voluntarily agreeing to a blood draw, but if a warrant for one magically presents itself (I can't imagine how or why, but whatever) I will readily comply. And it will come back just fine. General Thoughts: If the above ever happens to me (it never has), it will be a massive inconvenience and it may even require me to spend money I really don't have on an attorney. It will be embarrassing. It may affect my job. I will not be happy about any of this, but I also cannot do anything to 100% guarantee that the above never happens. But I can control how I react to it, and how much I even think about it (which is virtually never). My anxiety level over this stuff is therefore...non-existent. I already know what I'm going to do, and not going to do, in the unlikely event it ever happens. It's a solved problem from my perspective, and it requires no additional thought or handwringing on my part. For the rest of you - you do you, boo. |
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And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Originally Posted By Glocked: Are you a healthcare professional? Not trying to be a dick, but expecting people to supply personal medical info is silly. All this thread has shown me is that if LEO wants to push the FST issue, is that complaining of chest pains is the simplest solution. A trip in an ambulance and hanging out around the ER for a blood test would be both cheaper and more comfortable than being processed through booking at your local jail/ADC. View Quote No kidding lol. From now on I’m just going to grab my chest and yell out for Elizabeth if I have these encounters. |
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Originally Posted By Glocked: Are you a healthcare professional? Not trying to be a dick, but expecting people to supply personal medical info is silly. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Glocked: Are you a healthcare professional? Not trying to be a dick, but expecting people to supply personal medical info is silly. Asking clarifying questions is a good thing to me. Those questions help provide the people with actual medical issues advice on how to proceed if they are choosing to do SFSTs and they also help illustrate how some have no idea how SFSTs are done/what they are. All this thread has shown me is that if LEO wants to push the FST issue, is that complaining of chest pains is the simplest solution. A trip in an ambulance and hanging out around the ER for a blood test would be both cheaper and more comfortable than being processed through booking at your local jail/ADC. hahahaha........you know if they took your blood they are probably going to wait for you to be cleared from your bogus medical "issue" and take you to jail anyways; right? A trip to the hospital isnt a get out of jail free card. If nothing else it may tack on an insurance payment to your encounter. But do what you feel is best for you. |
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Originally Posted By Subnet: Here's how I've internalized stories like this over the years, and applied it to my daily life moving forward: Context: I do not drink and drive. I don't go to bars, I don't order drinks at restaurants if I'm going to be driving home, and I don't drink at a friend or family members house if I'm going to be driving home. I don't even keep alcohol in my own house anymore these days (unless I need a bottle of wine for a recipe or something), so if I get good and tanked - it's going to be on a camping trip or something along those lines. I'll have slept it off long before I got behind the wheel. I don't smoke weed, and I'm not on any medications - prescribed or otherwise. If I am ever suspected of DUI at some point in the future, the officer making that determination will be, 100%, unequivocally...wrong about it. I will be stone cold sober. Actionable: There is no way in which performing field sobriety tests, while stone cold sober and being observed by somebody who strongly suspects I'm not sober, will make me appear any less sober than I already am. There exists a possibility, however remote, that the officer performing the tests will observe some minor detail that confirms what he already suspected anyway. Again - he will be doing this, while investigating a completely sober person. So I'm not doing to do them. In effect, he suspects that I'm impaired, and he's asking me to provide him additional evidence of that. I will politely decline, thank you. At this point, I will probably be arrested for DUI anyway. I might not be (which would be great), but I'd expect to be. I won't be happy about it, but I can't make him not do that if he really wants to. I will be driven to the station, and I will be given an opportunity to blow after I get there. I will absolutely do that, and it will absolutely show 0.00%. There is no chance of me voluntarily agreeing to a blood draw, but if a warrant for one magically presents itself (I can't imagine how or why, but whatever) I will readily comply. And it will come back just fine. General Thoughts: If the above ever happens to me (it never has), it will be a massive inconvenience and it may even require me to spend money I really don't have on an attorney. It will be embarrassing. It may affect my job. I will not be happy about any of this, but I also cannot do anything to 100% guarantee that the above never happens. But I can control how I react to it, and how much I even think about it (which is virtually never). My anxiety level over this stuff is therefore...non-existent. I already know what I'm going to do, and not going to do, in the unlikely event it ever happens. It's a solved problem from my perspective, and it requires no additional thought or handwringing on my part. For the rest of you - you do you, boo. View Quote I go through police bodycam and related things on most days. But I don't personally worry about it at all, for similar reasons that you list. This is the most likely scenario however for your regular everyday good person to get falsely arrested. Where it happens, things should be made right as best as possible. Where you have a jurisdiction that is repeatedly doing it as a practice, for whatever reason, that shit needs to be dealt with and shut down. |
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Well respected cult leader.
Also Knight of Wonder. |
Originally Posted By Jeff_1: I don’t know what DKA is, I don’t have that. Be a little more open minded. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Jeff_1: Originally Posted By high_order1: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: There are a lot of medical conditions people have that can cause someone to automatically think they are impaired. If you are suffering from something, like DKA, that mimics being impaired, you should not be driving because the end result is no one cares why you can't hold it between the lines, just that you do. I don’t know what DKA is, I don’t have that. Be a little more open minded. @Jeff_1 DKA is Diabetic Keto Acidosis, essentially SUPER low blood sugar. To a non medical provider you would appear "drunk" , balance, coordination, cognition impairment, non serious speach/demenor slurred words, shitty driving etc. It is medically serious as well because if the person DOESNT get some sugar into them soon they keep getting lower and lower sugar (ie more "drunk" appearing) and at some point, brain damage starts to happen. In "normal" people insulin and sugar are like a teeter totter, if sugar goes up, insulin goes up to balance it the insulin allowing blood sugar to go from blood into cells; as sugar falls insulin falls, "normal" people basically keep the teetertotter with regular size people on both sides happily going up and down. Diabetics occasionally have a 500 lb fat kid that jumps on one side occasionally on the sugar side (6 donuts, a big meal, etc), and they balance with a dose of insulin (500 lb kid on other side, slowly getting on ) so the teeter totter is more or less flat. To keep the balance frequently diabetics will take the insulin before the meal (so teeter totter stays balanced mostly). But if they put a 500 lb fat kid on the insulin side, and instead of a 500 lb sugar kid on the other they get a 100 lb kid(meal interrupted, sugar free instead of expected regular OJ, ) the insulin side wins BIGLY and teeter totter hits Ground and keeps going. IE DKA, lots of insulin and way too little sugar to balance, the brain is being told "get the sugar out of the blood stream" by the insulin but there isnt any, so the body is cannibalizing itself to put sugar into the blood stream. The cannibalizing results in formation of ketone bodies, hence the name Diabetic Keto Acidosis. The classic sign of this is a "fruity" smell on the breath, and the drunken behavior, BUT if someone chugs 6 fruity cocktail drinks then waits 10 min, nurses the 7th, are they drunk or diabetic in crisis? (answer is drunk), if same person takes a double dose of insulin expecting to eat a double big mac, large fry and large milk shake, but mcdonalds gives them a diet coke instead. yeah DKA may result. |
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Originally Posted By gitarmac:Those field sobriety tests are bullshit. I couldn't pass one either. I couldn't walk a straight line, especially trying to go heel to toe. I doubt I could close my eyes and touch any part of my body without falling over. I've watched a bunch of them on YouTube. Even if you do them correctly the officer will keep stopping you to tell you to do them differently or whatnot. I don't know what the purpose is, especially when someone is totally shit faced and they continue to try to get them to do the field sobriety test. View Quote And right there, you have three rather different needs, causes, or motives all informing how the "State's interest in Law Enforcement" is carried out, that are possibly contradictory or even mutually exclusive. "Your eyes look glassy." "Well, gee officer, it would be awfully uncomfortable if they had a dry matte or satin finish, don't you think? Do you have a department issued state-approved glassy eye chart, or meter? Like the little window-tint thingy?" So... what happens next? Did you sarcastically convey Obi-Wan Kenobi-style: "This isn't the drunk or hoodrat you're looking for..." And that's the end of it? Or, did you just commit: "Misdemeanor disrespect of Law Enforcement in the 3rd degree, with weeks of Process as Punishment. And no charges or fines. So the system works." Tough call. And, "Economic Incentives/Disincentives are followed always." Holds very true here too. And "Economic Incentives/Disincentives" doesn't always mean "money" but, performance reviews etc. and ones paycheck ultimately means a lot does too. And whatever a LEA or government incentivizes or disincentivizes, they and the public will get more or less of "that." Or, any and all unintended consequences of "that" too. Then, add on top of it how the states respond legislatively to 5th Amendment self-incrimination problems. And they create the Kafka-trap Catch-22 "refusal to breathalyze/field sobriety test" under the doctrine of "implied consent." Which you created by obtaining a driver's license, and if you refuse the "last chance" blood/breath testing at the station, or special mobile van. And, while it's not a "criminal offense," you are then automatically slapped with all the administrative or civil-forfeiture penalties, as if you actually had blown or had a blood draw of .08%+ BAC. Assuming there's no additional "Process as Punishment" factors, intentional or not, like some horrid lab backup. Meaning you might wait even longer than actual drunks to get your "work temps" and breathalyzer interlock on your car. Which... might make someone wonder if the whole thing is really about "public safety," or just the mechanics of State, intentionally or just organically, "circling the wagons" to jealously defend it's authority, whenever American first principles & the Constitution might threaten it. And there's interesting stuff like this on the "unintended consequences" front as well. Certain demographics have learned that because of "Implied Consent" it's simply better to never have a state issued Driver's License, so... they just never consented. Isn't that cool? And, if the State originally screwed the pooch on various reckless driving laws, and oversights like how, at least in Wisconsin, multiple counts of operation on public roads w/o a license don't increase... but operation on a suspended/revoked license does increase... And you're a participant in the new subcultures of: "Speed limits & traffic signals are uncool, and are for suckas & whites..." Going 95mph+ down Milwaukee streets in whatever un-titled no-plate jalopy you bought on FB Marketplace for $500, or a stolen 202X KIA with inexplicable 1970s anti-theft technology... is pretty easy. And legally, and just pragmatically, you're at least partially, if not nearly untouchable. The odds Sir Isaac Newton gives you the ol' F=MxA death penalty, are wayyy higher than you'll do even 72 hours in the MKE County lockup. |
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Like most Americans, I learned all I needed to know about the Vietnam War by watching M*A*S*H*...
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Asking clarifying questions is a good thing to me. Those questions help provide the people with actual medical issues advice on how to proceed if they are choosing to do SFSTs and they also help illustrate how some have no idea how SFSTs are done/what they are. hahahaha........you know if they took your blood they are probably going to wait for you to be cleared from your bogus medical "issue" and take you to jail anyways; right? A trip to the hospital isnt a get out of jail free card. If nothing else it may take on an insurance payment to your encounter. But do what you feel is best for you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By Glocked: Are you a healthcare professional? Not trying to be a dick, but expecting people to supply personal medical info is silly. Asking clarifying questions is a good thing to me. Those questions help provide the people with actual medical issues advice on how to proceed if they are choosing to do SFSTs and they also help illustrate how some have no idea how SFSTs are done/what they are. All this thread has shown me is that if LEO wants to push the FST issue, is that complaining of chest pains is the simplest solution. A trip in an ambulance and hanging out around the ER for a blood test would be both cheaper and more comfortable than being processed through booking at your local jail/ADC. hahahaha........you know if they took your blood they are probably going to wait for you to be cleared from your bogus medical "issue" and take you to jail anyways; right? A trip to the hospital isnt a get out of jail free card. If nothing else it may take on an insurance payment to your encounter. But do what you feel is best for you. I do understand that questions help. Does your training cover all the conditions that could lead to balance issues, a stagger, lack of mobility? How would you even verify that they have vertigo or anything specific that could cause balance issues? Aren’t a large part of FSTs simply following the instructions given? Should they disclose they were bad at comprehension in school or following instructions? Despite what my comments in this thread might indicate. I absolutely despise people that DWI. Frankly, if I had to take a wild guess. A solid 50%+ of people I see around town, driving, or interacting with are under the influence of opiates. I probably despise them the most, as they tend to be the ones with a car full of innocents because muh’ drugs come from a Dr. “Take you to jail anyways” despite a likely more comprehensive blood test than would be performed during booking showing no substances in your system. While that may happen, at least I’ll be the guy being booked with independent documented proof of my lack of intoxication. If someone is going to jail, while sober. The system has failed them already, there is no reason I would expect them or myself to trust the same system to straighten it out. |
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Originally Posted By PeepEater: If someone encounters 1000 people and only shoots 6 of them they are 99.4% good at not shooting people. Is that acceptable for you? View Quote That's not even remotely the same thing, that's so far left field you are in the stands, not even in the ballpark any more. This is about someone losing a couple hours of their time because there was reasonable cause for them to be taken off the road. EVEN IF they (like me) were not impaired by any substance, their erratic driving initiated the stop. Nobody's dying from being stopped and detained to find out the truth. But people left on the road and not stopping ANYONE will certainly cause death. There seems to be a total lack of logical thinking by a fringe minority. |
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Originally Posted By opnblstr: In my job, something like a pending DUI, drug charge, etc. will get you taken off any sensitive IT work. That's a job killer. Might as well quit and start mowing lawns. If it were rectified in a day or two, no big deal. One month? No way. View Quote That's the thing, this is rectified in hours. This isn't people sitting there waiting for months for a damn court date. Results come back from blood or breath and you're either let go or pending charges because proof is in hand. ETA - I guess worst case scenerio is a rural location, Friday night, and not getting blood results back until Monday? Otherwise these are hours, at worst a couple days, then you move on with your life. |
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Originally Posted By Green_Canoe: Did your car get towed or was it left on the side of the road waiting for you to come back? Did they drive you back to your car when they were done? How much did that cost you? Some people aren't ARFCOM rich and unexpected expenses make a big impact on their life. View Quote First one I was a pedestrian. No tow. Second one yes, my car did get towed...forgot about that. Had to get it from the impound yard. I don't recall exactly but I'd be shocked if I paid more than a couple hundred for that. |
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I have a case right now where we have been waiting over a year for drug results. My client is out. Coming up for review in Feb and I am going to move for dismissal.
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It’s time. Time to tear the whole system down!
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Originally Posted By Subnet: Here's how I've internalized stories like this over the years, and applied it to my daily life moving forward: Context: I do not drink and drive. I don't go to bars, I don't order drinks at restaurants if I'm going to be driving home, and I don't drink at a friend or family members house if I'm going to be driving home. I don't even keep alcohol in my own house anymore these days (unless I need a bottle of wine for a recipe or something), so if I get good and tanked - it's going to be on a camping trip or something along those lines. I'll have slept it off long before I got behind the wheel. I don't smoke weed, and I'm not on any medications - prescribed or otherwise. If I am ever suspected of DUI at some point in the future, the officer making that determination will be, 100%, unequivocally...wrong about it. I will be stone cold sober. Actionable: There is no way in which performing field sobriety tests, while stone cold sober and being observed by somebody who strongly suspects I'm not sober, will make me appear any less sober than I already am. There exists a possibility, however remote, that the officer performing the tests will observe some minor detail that confirms what he already suspected anyway. Again - he will be doing this, while investigating a completely sober person. So I'm not going to do them. In effect, he suspects that I'm impaired, and he's asking me to provide him additional evidence of that. I will politely decline, thank you. At this point, I will probably be arrested for DUI anyway. I might not be (which would be great), but I'd expect to be. I won't be happy about it, but I can't make him not do that if he really wants to. I will be driven to the station, and I will be given an opportunity to blow after I get there. I will absolutely do that, and it will absolutely show 0.00%. There is no chance of me voluntarily agreeing to a blood draw, but if a warrant for one magically presents itself (I can't imagine how or why, but whatever) I will readily comply. And it will come back just fine. General Thoughts: If the above ever happens to me (it never has), it will be a massive inconvenience and it may even require me to spend money I really don't have on an attorney. It will be embarrassing. It may affect my job. I will not be happy about any of this, but I also cannot do anything to 100% guarantee that the above never happens. But I can control how I react to it, and how much I even think about it (which is virtually never). My anxiety level over this stuff is therefore...non-existent. I already know what I'm going to do, and not going to do, in the unlikely event it ever happens. It's a solved problem from my perspective, and it requires no additional thought or handwringing on my part. For the rest of you - you do you, boo. View Quote You need a --unverbose switch You can beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride. Don't do or say anything you're not legally required to. But I agree with what should be your main point. If you get pulled over for suspected DUI, you ARE getting arrested for DUI. |
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Tom Sawyer.
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?" |
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Originally Posted By dyezak: That's not even remotely the same thing, that's so far left field you are in the stands, not even in the ballpark any more. This is about someone losing a couple hours of their time because there was reasonable cause for them to be taken off the road. EVEN IF they (like me) were not impaired by any substance, their erratic driving initiated the stop. Nobody's dying from being stopped and detained to find out the truth. But people left on the road and not stopping ANYONE will certainly cause death. There seems to be a total lack of logical thinking by a fringe minority. View Quote For many people it's a career ender and they would rather take a superficial gunshot wound than have a DUI arrest on their record. The fact that you don't grasp this is part of the problem. |
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They no longer refer to field sobriety "tests", tests can be passed. Now they are referred to as "tasks" and subject to the arbitrary judgement of the officer. You do not have to take them.
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Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don’t drink but I couldn’t pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. View Quote Good thing you are in Oklahoma. Check out some of the Florida boating field sobriety tests designed to be used while seated. That is some pants on head retarded shit there. |
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Originally Posted By JBecker_72: What's wild to me is how many in LE don't even care about that. The ends justify the means. Just an arrest would have serious implications for me and my clearance. View Quote Still wild to me how many of my current and former coworkers brag about arresting people for something like DWLS... whooptee fuck. The only benefit is you got an uninsured driver off the road (which is a good thing), but perhaps that guy's insurance got canceled because he had to choose between feeding his kids or paying the bill, and that was the one bill he could "do without" for a few months. I dunno, simple arrests are not the measure of productivity I once considered them to be. Now I'd want to know how many convictions you've had on shit that actually affects people's lives in a negative way... |
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"They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Originally Posted By 797hp: If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 797hp: Originally Posted By Jeff_1: This is something that has always terrified me. I don’t drink but I couldn’t pass a field sobriety test to save my life. If I even got charged it would really screw me up with my job. If you were sober the breathalyzer would reflect that They don’t have a breathalyzer for drugs. You can still be arrested. |
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Originally Posted By PeepEater: For many people it's a career ender and they would rather take a superficial gunshot wound than have a DUI arrest on their record. The fact that you don't grasp this is part of the problem. View Quote I don't know if you're jumping around and skipping things, but there's a difference between an ARREST and a CONVICTION. You can be arrested, and nothing happens without a conviction. The whole point of this is that fact. Shit, when I was arrested in Fredrick MD back in 2003 I was holding a TS-SCI clearance. ANY drug/alcohol shit would have had my clearance yanked and my career ended instantly. But guess what, even something that sensitive understands the difference between arrested, mistake was made, no wrong doing was found versus bro was convicted of public intoxication. |
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Originally Posted By opnblstr: https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/the-boy-scout-the-hustler-and-the-porn-queen-6401071 View Quote Yeah, that's a classic! She definitely likes to fuck. |
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per aspera ad astra
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Originally Posted By floridahunter07: Still wild to me how many of my current and former coworkers brag about arresting people for something like DWLS... whooptee fuck. The only benefit is you got an uninsured driver off the road (which is a good thing), but perhaps that guy's insurance got canceled because he had to choose between feeding his kids or paying the bill, and that was the one bill he could "do without" for a few months. I dunno, simple arrests are not the measure of productivity I once considered them to be. Now I'd want to know how many convictions you've had on shit that actually affects people's lives in a negative way... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By floridahunter07: Originally Posted By JBecker_72: What's wild to me is how many in LE don't even care about that. The ends justify the means. Just an arrest would have serious implications for me and my clearance. Still wild to me how many of my current and former coworkers brag about arresting people for something like DWLS... whooptee fuck. The only benefit is you got an uninsured driver off the road (which is a good thing), but perhaps that guy's insurance got canceled because he had to choose between feeding his kids or paying the bill, and that was the one bill he could "do without" for a few months. I dunno, simple arrests are not the measure of productivity I once considered them to be. Now I'd want to know how many convictions you've had on shit that actually affects people's lives in a negative way... Pick your metrics wisely. |
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And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Originally Posted By olscruffy: several times local cops have sniffed at me while looking at my license and said "I think I smell a beer on your breath, Mr Scruff. I tell them No, not unless your nose goes back to 1981, you don't. Then I request a breathalyzer test. It must be a local tactic, it's never happened on road trips. View Quote It’s a tactic, why are your eyes red, why are you nervous, I smell alcoholic beverage. It’s easy extra pieces of subjective “evidence” they collect that can’t be disproven regardless of whether they are true or not. |
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1895 U.S. Supreme Court case which stated, "it is better to let the crime of a guilty person go unpunished than to condemn the innocent."
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Tom Sawyer.
"If The Rules brought us to this, what use are they?" |
Road blocks / DUI checkpoints should be illegal.
You don't have the right to stop every vehicle on a given road. I was always under the impression, you had to do something wrong to get pulled over. |
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Originally Posted By floridahunter07: I dunno, simple arrests are not the measure of productivity I once considered them to be. Now I'd want to know how many convictions you've had on shit that actually affects people's lives in a negative way... View Quote Arrests would be the better measure at this point with the way the courts dismiss most things rolling in the door. |
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Originally Posted By txinvestigator: That's not a thing View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By txinvestigator: Originally Posted By Alaskanforfreedom: Maybe the reverse alphabet test I'd have to think about it alot and pause alot. For me. Anyways. That's not a thing It was, not sure if anyone still does it. It wasn’t intended to be passed, the purpose was to get an utterance of “I couldn’t do that sober”. |
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In America, the village idiots have organized.
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Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: I'll just wait for someone to say that it's no big deal because the system will eventually work and the charges will be dropped. View Quote Try getting your FAA First Class Medical back after the charges get tossed, You’re still out thousands of dollars in legal fees. |
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In America, the village idiots have organized.
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