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Posted: 6/16/2008 3:32:13 PM EDT
I had bought a documentary series on the Vietnam war and was watching one DVD where it showed a group of Aussie Soldiers in Vietnam engaging North Vietnamese Forces.

The Aussies were clearly using what I assume to be L1A1's.

Nearby American forces were using a mix of M14's and M16's.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:34:34 PM EDT
[#1]
yup the aussie's used the FAL.

I'd have wanted a FAL in vietnam to cut through all the thick jungle if I was taking fire.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:35:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Ok.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:36:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Aussies also used the M-16A1 on a limited basis before adopting the Steyr AUG.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:41:01 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
I had bought a documentary series on the Vietnam war and was watching one DVD where it showed a group of Aussie Soldiers in Vietnam engaging North Vietnamese Forces.

The Aussies were clearly using what I assume to be L1A1's.

Nearby American forces were using a mix of M14's and M16's.


Well yeah.  ALL Commonwealth armies used a version of the L1A1 in the sixties.  Being part of the Commonwealth MEANT something back then.

The Austrailans started their deployments to Vietnam with the L1A1 the old Owen and the L4A1 Bren.  They tried to introduce new SMG to replace the Owen, the X-1 that was a lot like a Sterling but had the magazine mounted in the top like the Owen.  They decided not to produce it after encountering the M16A1.  They then bought a batch of M16A1s and issued them like SMGs

They also eventually chose the M60 to replace the Bren.  What they didn't like about the L7A1 I dont know, except that after Malaya wound down in 1966 they were spending more time cooperating with us than with the UK.

You must of seen a photo from a early deployment, like around 1966.  Or you would have seen a mix of L1A1s and M16s and a M79 and a M60.

Oh another thing, its very rare to see a photo of a Australian wearing a helmet.  Why I don't know.  But floppy boonie hats and some L1A1s around show Austrailans.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:41:18 PM EDT
[#5]


SAS...
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:44:59 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
img90.imageshack.us/img90/5808/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Doesnt have to be.  RAR battalions were sent too.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:51:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Whoops the native SMG the Austrailians started to build was the X-3 later redesignated F-1

worldguns.ru claims that it was produced and was at least on the books untill the AUG came in.

Its rare in Vietnam footage.  More common in some images from Malaya.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:54:44 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
img90.imageshack.us/img90/5808/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Doesnt have to be.  RAR battalions were sent too.




That's how the pic is marked----------I didn't feel the need to do the typical ARFCOM Let's Analyze The Fuck Out Of The Photo To Show Everyone How Incredibility High Speed I Am.

But hey, have at it...
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 3:58:42 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/VonErnst/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Does the 3rd guy have a dissipator? Are those some sort of early M203 slung under their rifles?
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:10:58 PM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/VonErnst/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Does the 3rd guy have a dissipator? Are those some sort of early M203 slung under their rifles?


Its where the "dissipator" idea came from.  Austrailian gunsmiths shortened some regular M16A1's down to as close to the gas block as they dared.  

There was a UGL that was a predecessor to the M203.  XM148 I think it was?  Anyway those are them.  

Now that funky underbarrel thing on the L1, and the missing forend intrigue me.  Anyone know what that is?  And its wearing a L4A1 30rnd magazine.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:11:21 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/VonErnst/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Does the 3rd guy have a dissipator? Are those some sort of early M203 slung under their rifles?


Damn, good catch, he does have what appears to be a dissy.  Not sure what the underslung GL's are, you can see the guy on the left has standard GL handguards and the other two I've never seen before.  FAL also has a 30(?)rd mag as well.

ETA: I don't think those are the M203 predecessor's, those have half of a pistol grip on them with a weird wire trigger and shorter as well IIRC.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:16:47 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/VonErnst/aussasuo5.jpg

SAS...


Does the 3rd guy have a dissipator? Are those some sort of early M203 slung under their rifles?


Damn, good catch, he does have what appears to be a dissy.  Not sure what the underslung GL's are, you can see the guy on the left has standard GL handguards and the other two I've never seen before.  FAL also has a 30(?)rd mag as well.


The guy on the left seems to have a actual M203.  So this photo was taken in 1970 I'm guessing?  M203s started to come out in the summer of 69 and Austrailia withdrew her combat troops in the summer of 1971...
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:22:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Ah ha!  worldguns.ru notes that Colt built a model of UGL inbetween the XM148 and M203, it was just known as Colt CG-4 (Colt Grenade Launcher, 4th Model?) and while based on the major components of XM148, it had some significant changes.  

EDIT:  That FAL in the photo is a Austrailian SAS special known as "the bitch" according to wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM148_grenade_launcher


The XM148 was an experimental 40 mm grenade launcher developed by Colt Firearms as the CGL-4 (Colt Grenade Launcher). Colt manufactured the launcher for field testing during the Vietnam era.

It was designed for installation below the barrel of M16-type rifles, and was intended to replace the stand-alone M79 correcting the problem of grenadiers relying on pistols as a secondary weapon. After problems with the experimental design were discovered, the XM148 was replaced by AAI Corporation's conceptually similar M203 design, currently the primary grenade launcher used by the US armed forces and others today. Originally made for use with the M16 Rifle, the XM148 was also used by US Special Forces in conjunction with the XM177E2 and the Australian SASR in cunjuction with the modified L1A1, nicknamed "the bitch".

The launcher's barrel could slide forward to accept a single 40 mm round into the breech. It came with a primitive version of the quadrant sight later used with the M203. It differed from the later model by featuring an external cocking handle and an extended trigger that allowed the weapon to be fired without removing the hand from the rifle's pistol grip. This same extended trigger was also one source of the weapon's problems as it allowed accidental discharges of a loaded weapon if caught by tree branches, gear, or anything else capable of overcoming the 6 to 11 pound trigger pull.

Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:32:19 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Ah ha!  worldguns.ru notes that Colt built a model of UGL inbetween the XM148 and M203, it was just known as Colt CG-4 (Colt Grenade Launcher, 4th Model?) and while based on the major components of XM148, it had some significant changes.  

EDIT:  That FAL in the photo is a Austrailian SAS special known as "the bitch" according to wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM148_grenade_launcher

The XM148 was an experimental 40 mm grenade launcher developed by Colt Firearms as the CGL-4 (Colt Grenade Launcher). Colt manufactured the launcher for field testing during the Vietnam era.

It was designed for installation below the barrel of M16-type rifles, and was intended to replace the stand-alone M79 correcting the problem of grenadiers relying on pistols as a secondary weapon. After problems with the experimental design were discovered, the XM148 was replaced by AAI Corporation's conceptually similar M203 design, currently the primary grenade launcher used by the US armed forces and others today. Originally made for use with the M16 Rifle, the XM148 was also used by US Special Forces in conjunction with the XM177E2 and the Australian SASR in cunjuction with the modified L1A1, nicknamed "the bitch".

The launcher's barrel could slide forward to accept a single 40 mm round into the breech. It came with a primitive version of the quadrant sight later used with the M203. It differed from the later model by featuring an external cocking handle and an extended trigger that allowed the weapon to be fired without removing the hand from the rifle's pistol grip. This same extended trigger was also one source of the weapon's problems as it allowed accidental discharges of a loaded weapon if caught by tree branches, gear, or anything else capable of overcoming the 6 to 11 pound trigger pull.


Yep, that's it.  What is interesting is that in your article it states this modified version was used on L1A1's, but in the picture the L!A! has the XM-148 and the M16's have the CGL-4.
Link Posted: 6/16/2008 4:36:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Even more interesting.  According to Wiki the "bitch" FALS were full auto L2A1's modified by the same armorers that made the "dissapator" M16s.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L1A1#Production_and_use


Another interesting product of Australian participation in the conflict in South-East Asia was the field modification of L1A1 and L2A1 rifles by the Australian Special Air Service Regiment SASR for better handling. Nicknamed "The Bitch". These rifles were field modified, often from heavy barrelled L2A1 automatic rifles, with their barrels cut off immediately in front of the gas block, and often with the L2A1 bipods removed and a XM148 40 mm grenade launcher mounted below the barrel. The XM148 40 mm grenade launchers were obtained from U.S. forces. For the L1A1, the lack of fully-automatic fire resulted in the unofficial conversion of the L1A1 to full-auto capability by simply filing down the selector.



I didn't know Austrailia used the L2A1/FALO.  In photos you usually see L4A1 Brens in Malaya in the early 60's and M60s in Vietnam in the later sixties to 71.
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