Originally Posted By Emu: Ahhhhhh, but with no serial numbers on uppers how can ya say for sure which was purchased when???!!!

Exactly! It's a ruling that only a overpaid bureaucrat could have come up with.

And why not just fab up some "receipts" while you're at it. :)

Or, for that matter, how could they prove that you weren't telling the truth when you said you tossed them all out?

And what if you had one lower, and assembled each lower receiver to it ONCE to function test the build? Would that fulfill the requirements in the eyes of the law...or a jury?

The rule was essentially unenforceable, from the get-go.

I think that the antis learned a lot from the '94-'04 Federal AWB.  Any new ban is purely hypothetical at this point, but I believe that a few things are evident:
1.  Any new ban will require fundamental changes to the rifles covered by it to preclude use of existing mags, etc...differnt mag well dimensions, or worse, so "normal" capacity mags can't be used in new rifle, and
2.  There won't be any sunset clause (end date) built into any new legislation, and
3.  There will probably be some sort of redefinition as to what constitutes a "firearm", especially in regards to AR-style rifles, and also a possible redefining of certain rifles into DDs, even though they are no different from other models which will be allowed to stay on the market wither due to politics or looks...such as is the case with certain double action and semi-auto shotguns currently (streetsweeper, USAS-12, Pancor, etc...).

All that said, we have to stand up for ourselves PRIOR to a new ban being proposed:

We have to get others (both within other shooting sports and non-shooters alike) into "our" style of shooting.  They don't have to become instant owners, nut even if they are comfortable enough with the "black rifles" that they don't feel threatened by them and that they know that they have other purposes (primairly being a whole lot of fun) than just killing people, which is the perception held by many.
We have to take on the myths and misperceptions held by some within the shooting community and many outside of it.  The moron (we all have one) at the local gun shop who runs his mouth about how easy it is to convert a semi-automatic to a select-fire needs to be confronted, not tolerated. He is doing irrepairable harm just by running his mouth.  We have to make sure that those who don't know the "black rifle" get at least a passing acquiantance with it.  Too often our style of rifle is demonized by many in the press, in some parts of law enforcement, and even within the ministry as being what is wrong with society.  Some of them will never be converts to our cause, but some can at least be brought into neutrality (or better) through a little bit of education, a few bucks worth of ammo, and a little time and effort.  We attend quite a few range events that we don't make any sales off of, but the public exposure and educational opportunities far outweigh the costs.   We need to catch ourselves when we look down on one particular style or type or firearm, because others are doing it to us.  We need to be conscious of how we come off to others when we're at the range...go that little extra to be polite, to let those who might like to give it a try fire off a few rounds, to make sure we clean up after oursleves, or maybe donate brass that we're not goign to reload to the range progarm...whatever it is, that little extra to come across as being repsonsible, pleasant people...not blood crazed domestic terrorists.  I know the arguments...we shouldn't have to do any of those things because a rifle is a rifle is a rifle....but perception is reality and perception is that black rifles are different.  We have to make people understand what we already know.
And probably the biggest thing we can do is to become politically active. Not just those in the industry, or those with some sort of financial stake in this situation, but all of us. We have to educate ourselves about the candidates for office (even at the local level) and the issues that are imporatnt to us.  We have to demand facts, not slogans, from candidates and campaigns.  We have to become aware of where candidates stand on the issues that matter to us as individuals.  For many of us, a big part of that will be the firearms issue.  Just don't assume a party identification is good enough, because it isn't.  we have to ask ourselves what's important to us.  Is this issue worth sacrificing for somethiong else, or does something else need to give to save this one?  And we have to VOTE based on both what we think about our own circumstances and about the issues.  
Rant mode off.  You know where I stand.
Steve/RRA

 Good to see you're back and feeling froggy again. I hope they learned the lesson from 94 that even democrats will throw them out office when they try gun control to the extreme that they did. I don't buy that Newt was responsible for the 94 republican takeover of Congress, I believe it was the AWB that not only led to their demise but also led to Gore's defeat in 2000 because he was so anti gun and not afraid to speak about it. As Shotar always Say's this country is governed from the middle, when the people don't like what is going on in Washington they either stay home on election day or vote on a single issue.     Welcome back Steve.

ya keep on top of your states or you will end up like me in california with a fuckin 10 round fixed mag... and im still not really within the law im just not really breaking it... If i was old enough at the time with cali started going commi. i would have raised quite a fuss. I am the only gun owern in my famly that lives in california and i am considerd a  black sheep for it not counting the fact that i own more than one gun makes it even worst.. My sister is a buddist and a vegitarian So my varminting is murder to her.. my folks are devout christans who think that guns only casue problems... so you guys have it easy and please do try to keep it that way. because i dont plan on living here forever..

For those who don't go in there too often, I added some more barrels to the list.  They'll be in the new catalog, although some aren't going to be available for a month or two.
Steve/RRA

Hi everyone.
Nothing earth-shaking, but a general announcement nonetheless.  My role at RRA has changed several times over the past several years, and recently, it changed again.  As a consequence, I'm not going to be in the forums or even on ARFCOM as much as I have been since I started moderating a couple years ago,  I'm still going to try to hhiut it early in the morning, and possibly later in the day, but for the most part, you'll see me starting to log in later in the night, from home or the road.  I won't have as much information available to me, obviously, so I'm going to really encourage you to take questions about orders, product availability, etc...directly to our Sales and Customer Service Department.  The phones ring in M-F, 8-4 Central Time (although I would avoid 11:30 AM -1:00 PM as the various personnel rotate in and out on their lunch breaks).  The toll free number is 866-980-7625.  I'll still try to answer the more technical threads...but it probably won't be as quickly as it has been previously, and some threads may go unanswered if you guys are taking care of each other and don't really need me.  We do also have techs available throughout the day by calling the same number.
One other thing...civility towards each other and RRA.  I always re-read what I;ve tped before I hit "submit".  I've written some real doozies when angered by one poster or another, and typing out what I want to say, without actually posting it often helps "vent" without antagonizing anyone or making  a situation worse.  RRA pays thousands oif dollars every year for this forum, and we want to keep it something we can be proud to have customers/potential customers/interested persons use without being derided, abused, called names becaus ethey don't know as much as many of us, etc...Same goes for RRA.  We have thick skin, and generally owe up to problems and take the hits as necessary.  But if posts keep coming up that are nothing more than RRA bashing, they'll be removed.  We also won't tolerate bashing other companies in this forum.  Everyone in this industry has their niche, whether high or low on the proverbial totem pole.  If someone asks about a specific product, feel free to answer in a manner that gets your point across (maybe even your personal experiences) without just chiming in to say "I can't belive you're considering that POS".  We provide a forum for you to access and use, but not misuse or abuse.
Thanks.
Steve/RRA

Good luck Steve and THANK you.

Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR: Hi everyone. Nothing earth-shaking, but a general announcement nonetheless.  My role at RRA has changed several times over the past several years, and recently, it changed again.  As a consequence, I'm not going to be in the forums or even on ARFCOM as much as I have been since I started moderating a couple years ago,  I'm still going to try to hhiut it early in the morning, and possibly later in the day, but for the most part, you'll see me starting to log in later in the night, from home or the road.  I won't have as much information available to me, obviously, so I'm going to really encourage you to take questions about orders, product availability, etc...directly to our Sales and Customer Service Department.  The phones ring in M-F, 8-4 Central Time (although I would avoid 11:30 AM -1:00 PM as the various personnel rotate in and out on their lunch breaks).  The toll free number is 866-980-7625.  I'll still try to answer the more technical threads...but it probably won't be as quickly as it has been previously, and some threads may go unanswered if you guys are taking care of each other and don't really need me.  We do also have techs available throughout the day by calling the same number. Steve/RRA

RRA Steve, I hope your role change is due to a promotion.  You've done a good job for RRA here.





5sub

I'll still be the primary moderator.  I'll just have to do it a little differently as fae as timing and individualized info goes.
Thanks.
Steve/RRA

Just as a follow up on my recent post about my not being in here as much as I had been.
I'm primarily working on the forums first thing in the morning, as I get the chance.  Very little time durring the rest of the day to do so at this point.  Iam trying to get on at night, but I'm still on dial up at home, and some of the longer threads, or those with graphics are slowing me down to a veritable crawl, so I'm looking at what I can do there to make that more effective.  
Thanks to all of those who positively contribute to the various threads and this forum in general.  We/I appreciate it greatly.
Steve/RRA

Steve, FWIW...you are part of the reason I now own two RRA. Watching a number of boards and doing my research put RRA on the short list, your professionalism dealing with some of these posts gave you guys the edge. Thank you for a great product and support.

Just another update.
We broke ground on an 8000 ft expansion earlier this week, which should be done sometime in June/July.   It's a gamble, but one we had to take.
For those of you who don't know, the Illinois governor and a big chunk of the state legislature annually consider multiple bills that would force us put of business in Illinois.   Each year the pro-gun, pro-rights, pro-business forces in Illinois have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to lobby, inform, instruct, etc...legislators of the downside of going along with these bills.  In many cases, Illinois manufacturers have balked at investing in business expansion in Illinois because of the constant threat to their continued viability.  That said, to move out of state isn't a good answer for most of us either.  Even if it is a fairly close move, we would lose key people and force others to make some significant life changes.  RRA's owners have decided to bite the bullet and add on to our current facility and not let the politicians win by stifling our ability to get our product out to the shooting public.  The additional room (about a 60% increase in square footage) will allow for expansion of our production floors, warehouse, in-house maching capacity, shipping and receiving operation, and offices.  That in turn will allow for hiring additional staff in all of those areas, with an ultimate goal of improving all aspects of our operations.
Steve/RRA

Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR: Just another update. We broke ground on an 8000 ft expansion earlier this week, which should be done sometime in June/July.   It's a gamble, but one we had to take. For those of you who don't know, the Illinois governor and a big chunk of the state legislature annually consider multiple bills that would force us put of business in Illinois.   Each year the pro-gun, pro-rights, pro-business forces in Illinois have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to lobby, inform, instruct, etc...legislators of the downside of going along with these bills.  In many cases, Illinois manufacturers have balked at investing in business expansion in Illinois because of the constant threat to their continued viability.  That said, to move out of state isn't a good answer for most of us either.  Even if it is a fairly close move, we would lose key people and force others to make some significant life changes.  RRA's owners have decided to bite the bullet and add on to our current facility and not let the politicians win by stifling our ability to get our product out to the shooting public.  The additional room (about a 60% increase in square footage) will allow for expansion of our production floors, warehouse, in-house maching capacity, shipping and receiving operation, and offices.  That in turn will allow for hiring additional staff in all of those areas, with an ultimate goal of improving all aspects of our operations. Steve/RRA Congratulations.   I just wish you weren't in a state run by gun haters.  I wish you would move to Fl  I would work for you guys.

Man I was hoping you guys would jump to the west side of the Mississippi River.  Did a 8 mile longer commute make that much difference to your employee base?  When compared to the business risks of the IL ban

I'm afraid it would end up being further than "just" across the river.  I live 8 miles downstream from the I-80 bridge and would love for us to be that close...but we wouldn't be.
And yes, even "just" across the river into Iowa we would lose some people who are already coming in 20-30 miles every morning.
So far the weather isn't cooperating with us (cold, rain, more rain) too well...but we're getting there.
Steve/RRA

Steve,
 From an ex Illinois subject that burned his FOID card upon leaving, I wish you guys luck with the new addition, hopefully it plays out.  You guys are always welcome up here in Northern Minnesota.  I know you are sick of this, but I just have to ask.  I read a thread on survivalblog about a two year wait for standard Lar's.  I am a little paranoid about future president Osama's term, and what I read about two years is making me sweat a little.  I put in an order for two standards in January, and I know you have no real time table to give so to speak, but is this two year thing something that has some weight behind it?

IMO, good move to stay here. We need all the help we can get. OTOH, all the other manufacturers said they'll ride out if a ban is passed. How many millions of dollars would the state lose because of that? I dont think these politicians are that stupid. Above all is their money and they love it! We need CCW and thats what I think even the manufacturers in-state should be pushing for.

G

Lead times on 223 rifles is approximately 8-12 weeks.  9mm, 6.8, and .458 are running about a month on top of that.  I thinkthe confusion is with the LAR-8s.  We don't have a two year lead time...we're filling back orders that have accumulated over two years.  We ship from oldest to newest order within a given model, so soem of the orders that have already shipped were two years old, but we aren't running two years behind.  I hope that makes sense.
About staying versus leaving Illinois.  Our little part of the industry did some very quick mathematics when we were in Springfield last year talking to legislators.  The direct economic impact on Illinois would be in the hundreds of millions annually, with an annual indirect impact of about the same amount.
Steve/RRA

Thanks for the nugget of hope, it makes more sense now. One more question and I promise I wont bug you about it again.  You can even give me a wild and crazy ballpark number on this.  If you started shipping orders that were two years old, how old is the average order your shipping now?  If you don't want to or are unable to answer that, I will provide an alternative question.  Is there a plan to fill all of the orders for the mid length LAR's then start production on the standards, or to fill most of the orders for the mid lengths, then start production on the standards? I know you probaly want to headbut me in the nose right now, but if it is any consolation, I put in an order for a .223 today.

As the numbers get closer to parity, all of the models will be phased into production.  The Mid A4 orders exceeded any other model, which is why we started with them.
All LAR-8 models wil be shipping as quickly as possible.
Steve/RRA

Any updates on current lead times for a Car A4

Any updates on current lead times for a Car A4

Shipping pretty much daily.
Depends on order date and any/all subs.
Steve/RRA

I ordered last week

Added free floated quad rail

Picatiny gas block

Black ergo grip

On car a4 with 6 pos stock

Average 8-12 weeks.  As with all averages, it could come out sooner or take a little longer.
Steve/RRA

Thanks for the info

Thanks for keeping us in the loop Steve. It's good to hear from someone on the "inside".

Prib

Some of you may have noticed that I'm not around here as much as I have been.
As I indicated some time ago, significant changes in my role and corresponding responsibilities at RRA have pretty much forced me out of being able to get in here during the work day (I still do, occasionally, for a couple minutes now and then).  I'm trying to get in to look for IMs once or twice a day, but the forums are going to be on my own time, as I can, throughout the week and over the weekend.

Your best bet for trying to find out an order status is, as always, out Sales/Customer Service Department at 866-980-7625, M-F, 8-4 Central Time.  Please have as much informationas possible about YOUR order.  If it's someone else's order (even the dealer's order for your purchase from him), please have that person call.  Sharing order info on someone else's order something we don't want to be in the habit of doing.  The same holds true for "in-stock" inquiries, etc...

For technical info or questions, please call the same number and ask for technical assistance for rifles, or 1911s, or whatever it is and our receptionist will try to get you to the right person for your call.  Please be patient.  Not everyone can help you on an/every tech call, so we have certain people designated for those calls and they are often on the phone with callers for a while to sort through their issues.  If you're on hold for longer than you want to be, let the receptionist know (she's supposed to be popping back in to ask if you want to continue to hold every so many minutes) and ask that she take your number and have someone call you back.  It may be a little while, but someone will get back to you.

I'll still be around here, but I am no longer able to provide the kind of support and response times that I have previously.  Watch our website (www.rockriverarms.com)for new product releases and informational updates (alot of new "stuff" shows up on the site before it will ever see the light of day in a catalog...we've even had a few web-only specials over the years.

Thanks guys.  Please IM me if you have to, or if there's something you think demands my immediate attention (may still be a day or more before I see it).

Steve/RRA

(edited for my poor spelling/typing)

Sure would be nice to get an update on production, wait times, what parts are backordered etc....

You will when supply exceeds demand.

Until then, we get the royal "Fuck you and wait"

+1. Rock River order will be cancelled if I am lucky enough to get in on the next round of BCM uppers.

I think its high time someone from RRA sack up and give the folks here a state of the union as to what inventory, wait times and delivery dates are looking like. If not, THEN STOP TAKING ORDERS. Dumping people into Rock River purgatory is no way to run a business. Rock River, you guys need to take lessons from Bravo Company's business model. They are every bit as busy as you, but still take time to post on the forum every once and a while as to what is happening and what we can expect. I don't think that doing this for us would pull a line worker off assembly. There seems to be no rhyme or reason either as to what you are shipping based on the posts to this forum. Tell us what the deal is!!

As for me, I will be taking every chance I get to  grab a BCM upper and cancel my order with you.

Your silence is deafening.

didnt the RRA rep on here say he moved to a different dept. and thus would not be on here that often?  I realize they could try to make the effort to look on here, but i doubt its at the top of their TO-DO list

... waiting since Nov 9, 2008.

Waiting since 04-29-2006

A BIG +1!!!!!

OOOPS, Double Post

That doesn't make sense.  Did you ever get a confirmation on ordering? That doesn't sound right there.

The counter to that is they are obligated to honor the price that the order was placed at.  One of the reasons I just ordered an upper this morning in fact.  I almost hope it takes 12 months.  At the rate .gov is printing money, $515 12 months from now is going to be worth less than $515 is today.  (Indeed, if you're not worried about imminent lay off, I highly suggest now is the time for making any big-ticket purchases - gun related or not.)

Called RRA today about my Car A4 Upper order and they said they are now working on upper orders in Feb...hope this news helps someone...

That's encouraging.  I get the feeling - and I have no data to back this up - but I get the feeling that the rush of orders started tapering pretty fast some time around March.  Ammo sales are still brisk, but gun movement seems to have slowed down a lot.  I imagine folks who wanted one got one by then - and ran out of money.

if they're working on Feb. orders, where the hell is my early January order?!?!?!

I want to know who they are talking to and getting order information. I have talked to probably 5 RRA sales people on the phone and asked them what months orders they are working on and they always tell me they have no idea.

or they refuse to give any information at all..


who did you talk to

I know I have spoken to BJ, Kate, and Brittany just this week. I am not sure who the other two were... maybe a Cathy.

I am sure they know what months they are working on and what batch of rifles is in production. Not really sure why they have to keep it soo secret. I would feel a little better if they would give some kind of updates. I understand that they can't build what they dont have parts for. I also noticed that some people get their orders before people who had orders in before them. Kind like if I placed a NM LPK order in January I am getting it after someone who placed their order in March.  From the issues I have had to correct so far with RRA I dont think they keep very good records.

i wonder if its possible to get to talk to someone aside from their sales people - like a quality manager or someone else

I spoke to a lady named Jan... I asked her what month orders they were working on...she said what parts...i replied uppers....she said let me check...and came back with the Feb.....don't know if someone needs to throw the flag on them or not....was thinking about cancelling my order but held off...also ordered an upper from del-ton as back up.....which ever comes first i'll cancel the other for now...if they come around same time....well then lucky me

Then where is my November 10th order. They're full of shit. I just found out today from Wilson arms 6 weeks is added to the length for a chrome lined barrel 12 to 14 for stainless. That's average. I'm sitting at 31 weeks now. If I could find a colt 6940 semi-local I'd cancell tomorrow.

my problem is also i dont have an order number - i ordered though a dealer on the forum and he refused to give me my order number