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Posted: 9/24/2007 4:58:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Subs,
Don't take anything for granted...the cessation of the suit wasn't as easy as you think as the suit wasn't as trivial as some have made it out to be. We can't comment on it and neither can the other party. We really are waiting on parts, which are well past due. There is a light at the end of the tunnel (and it isn't an on-coming train). There aren't any further changes required (most of the refinement we made were desired rather than required) to the design we're using. It runs great. We probably went beyond where we needed to in tweaking the design. Mechanically, there's nothing more to do to it. Once the final parts are in, LAR-8s are being built, shot, cleaned, packed, and shipped. Steve/RRA |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2007 9:10:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Holy Shrike Batman! |
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Posted: 9/24/2007 11:59:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Ouch, its not as bad as the shrike..... YET. |
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Posted: 9/25/2007 1:39:53 AM EDT
[#4]
GOOD news.
Even BETTER news !!  5sub |
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Posted: 9/25/2007 2:27:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5subslr5]
[#5]
Guys this is no Shrike deal. RRA* has not required any deposit while Shrike did require a deposit.
5sub *I've read here that some RRA 'dealers' have required deposits but not RRA corporate. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2007 7:05:51 AM EDT
[#6]
That's the only difference I can see from here. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2007 8:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sheep1]
[#7]
I think we ALL can learn from this situation. I am sure if RRA had it to do over again, they would have never shared there plans at the 2006 SHOT show to build .308 rifles. I spoke with Steve at that show and was excited as anyone about this product coming to fruition. Especially from RRA because of the quality of their products.
There is a major differecen in a company NOT asking for your hard earned cold cash upfront to build a product. I mean, what are we really out (other than time) from RRA? I dont know many companies that would honor their orignal pricing from 2 years ago. I dont know many companies that would not have put out a product that is more thought through than RRA. They want us to wait because they want it to be right. in our microwave world, we want everything now. Like Heinz ketchup says, "good things come to those who wait." I am happy to be a RRA customer/dealer. They stand behind their product and put out the best possible product at a price point that is attainable for everyone. Steve is doing a great job dealing with the public. I dont see many other manufactuers taking the time to deal with customers like this. Maybe this is why the other AR manufactuers are so concerned about RRA. Better product, better customer service and better price point. I think what most have is an infatuation for RRA and their products. We know what to expect in their product and we want it as fast as we can have it. Hmmm, makes me think, what can we all learn. 1. Dont talk about a product until you have cleared the hurdles to bring it to the public. I think RRA has stated this. 2. Be patient. This is not BK, you cannot have it your way. RRA will get the product out and their will be high demand for it. I wish i had a few of them by know. I wish I had several in stock to sell to customers. But thats life. We all can learn from this. I have 3 RRA. I have a few others, but RRA are my favorite. Just my .03 cents - Scott |
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Posted: 9/25/2007 9:18:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Yup...aside from a few "new" items that we've already showed and/or commented on, you won't be seeing anything "newsy" from us about new product until it is pretty well ready to ship. Double edged sword, but we've learned a lot from the LAR-8, in particular, about showing product that isn't ready to go, promise dates, etc....
Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 9/25/2007 11:34:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Had you waited till you were ready to release the rifle Armalite's lawsuit would have likely been significantly more problematic… 
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Posted: 9/25/2007 11:41:29 AM EDT
[#10]
For what it's worth, I agree completely with Scott here... (And I have more than 3 RRA...) And I'm still, more or less patiently, waiting, Steve...  Forrest |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2007 3:10:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: nwobhm]
[#11]
If I had laid out cash in advance I would have gotten my money back a year ago. Fact is many people are out on this project. I sold part of my personal inventory in anticipation of at least 2 or 3 new presicion RR 308's. When someone gives a timeframe they need to at least come reasonably close or have a damn good explanation. I have seen nothing in the way of reasonable explantion to the 5+ month receiver issue nor has any timeframe been met. Now RR has clammed up making it worse. I HAD many RR rifles and they are all gone BECAUSE I want their 308's. I have been transitioning to 308 exclusively because I like the idea of 1 feeding system in all my rifles. I have alot of FALs and the RR would be a perfect fit. Fact is RR has made promises they can't keep so now they say nothing. What they are doing is wrong from a business standpoint. They have given themselves a black eye in an industry that isn't very quick to forgive. Problems or not, they need to be honest and upfront about delays. Just removing things from the website and saying "were close" doesn't cut it.
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Posted: 9/25/2007 4:55:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Nwobhm....I have provided the reason for the delay. It isn't a rifle without a lower...it's an upper half and a mixed pile of other parts that can't be installed in anything.
Is the delay on getting machined lowers with the proper markings an issue? It sure is. Has it caused heartburn, indigestion, and half a dozen other maladies around here? Sure has. Would we have rather been shipping over a year ago, or even a few months ago? You bet. Do we have a significant financial investment in this project? Yes we do. Do we want to see return on that investment and outlay? Yes we do. Have I personally had my name on an order for longer than you have? I don't know, but I'm willing to bet the answer is "yes". Part of what I'm doing in here everyday is trying to help solve problems. I can do alot to do so. But waving a magic wand to make parts just appear isn't one of them. I make no excuses. I've been very open about the parts and other issue(s) as they've come up. There's been no conspiracy of silence. When the anticipated dates on parts and changes have changed, I've been vocal and open about the delays. For all of you, NWOBHM included, thanks for your patience, perseverance, and support. It is appreciated. Thanks. Steve/RRA |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2007 5:38:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Steve,
How about the pictures? If we could get some of those posted from your test rifles, it might ease some of the build up in tensions here.Just a suggestion. Regards, keeping the faith. Steve-Indy |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/25/2007 8:52:51 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 9/26/2007 2:59:24 PM EDT
[#15]
 I believe you are going to have to settle for this....www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/rra_205.pdf
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Posted: 9/26/2007 5:12:56 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm trying to get new photos on our web site...I'll post here whenever I get them on-line, whenever I get them on-line.
Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 9/27/2007 4:54:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dekg4f]
[#17]
Many, many months ago, I set aside the $ to buy the A4-308 RRA was announcing! I own several RRA products now and have excellent service and value to report from their products. Having spent many years in manufacturing, the many delays of this new 308 product have me worried? While I respect the desire to "get it right", I am fearful that design/engineering issues are the root cause of these delays. I understand supply chain problems and delivery issues, but generally, vendors do "what you want/when you want it", assuming you know what you want. MY question, should I commit to purchase or just wait and see what happens with initial product reviews here on AR15???????? Jeff |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2007 5:28:52 PM EDT
[#18]
I personally think there is more to the story then we have been told about the delay.
Photo's have been request as far back on this thread as 8/10 by 8654. Each time, Steve has told us they are coming, but nothing ever appears. Based on my many years in law enforcement (over 20), I can tell when the truth is not being delivered in a straight forward manner. I'm not calling Steve a liar, but something is not right with some part of this rifle's parts or production which is causing this undue delay. Sorry for stating the facts as I see it, but it is only my opinion based on reading this thread and the one before it. I love my RRA Tact Entry and hope someday to own a LAR8, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Sorry for the negative post.  Regards to all, Steve |
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Posted: 9/27/2007 5:52:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Jeff (and others facing the same dilemma),
We certainly understand your concern, and any decision rests solely with you and your comfort level. The problem really does lay, and has for several months, with parts. Not redesigning them, or re-engineering them...just getting them. By SHOT '07 we were pretty well set to go. Several issues arose shortly thereafter which forced production of a very significant component to be temporarily shut down. Without going into great detail of the manufacturing processes in place, production of that component has That has commenced and all necessary components are either already made or in final production. We have several complete LAR-8s both in-house and in the field at this time, undergoing both testing and evaluation by RRA personnel and other persons. There are no "new" parts, new designs, or new engineering functions to be done at this time...just parts to be received, QC inspected, and built into complete rifles. That said, I stopped giving ETAs about a month ago, because I was continuously letting everyone down by having to step back from those dates as they came and went. I expect the final parts in very soon, with production to start nearly immediately upon receipt. Thank you. Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 9/27/2007 6:27:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Steve, Thanks for the quick reply. I hope I simply stated what many of your customers feel. I would hate to be the project manager on this roll-out. I can feel the a**-chewings from here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeff PS, I still have the $'s, ready to order when product hits the marketplace! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/27/2007 10:22:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8654]
[#21]
I do not now, nor have I ever been involved in the firearms industry (other than owning several and believing in the right to bear arms). I have been interested in the .308 platform for some time and actually have 2 of the Bushy BAR-308. I am not just a casual observer. On that note, Steve has helped me out more than once. What I want to see is a few pictures of an operational LAR-8. I do not care that is 100% (or much less) clean and pretty. My rifles are rarely that clean. They do, however, run all the time. I own 3 RRA LAR-15's and am waiting to have some LAR-8's. Just show me some pictures (that are recent) of some LAR-8's that have all the "production" modifications included. That would be a fitting "bone" for all the loyal (and faithful) LAR-8 "customers." Please, run out back and snap some shots!!! 8654 |
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Posted: 9/28/2007 2:51:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Call me stupid but I just don't understand. 5sub |
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Posted: 9/28/2007 8:47:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Okay...doing some internal editting left me with a couple extra words in there.
All parts. pieces, and assemblies are in stock or being made. Once in-hand and QC checked, production will commence. Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 9/28/2007 9:04:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Gotcha. 5sub |
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Posted: 9/28/2007 12:17:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Slash]
[#25]
Can you confirm whether it is barrels or receivers that you need to start production? I've received conflicting reports.
Inquiring minds want to know.  |
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Posted: 9/28/2007 2:26:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Inquiring minds are probably going to have to wonder just a little bit longer until I get clearance to give a different answer.
Steve/RRA |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/28/2007 11:38:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SD307]
[#27]
OK this is good news so from the start of production when can we expect shipping to begin and what models will be produced first?
Thanks to RRA and Steve for keeping us all informed |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2007 9:27:27 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 9/29/2007 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Good analogy. Have to say that I've rarly seen anything quite so nauseating as some of the posts in this and the other thread. And yes I do have a horse in this race. Reminds me of the kids in the back of a car on a long trip: "Are we there yet?"..."No it'll be a good couple of hours yet"....5 minutes pass...."Are we there yet?" It's a freaking rifle. Last I checked the Earth is still rotating correctly without it. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2007 11:23:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Yeah, its not like some of those beer cans are going to put holes in themselves.
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Posted: 9/30/2007 10:48:37 AM EDT
[#31]
sd307,
perhaps you are prescient but I don't see any different news - good or bad ?? I was told RRA is waiting for lowers. Slash was told RRA is waiting for barrels. RRA Steve is unable to tell us (not allowed to tell us) which is true if either. Kindly post your good news as I musta missed it my last 20 or so times reading this thread. 5sub |
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Posted: 9/30/2007 10:58:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Less than 3 months till Christmas
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Posted: 9/30/2007 11:03:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Hmmmmmmmmm..ummmmm.....both a sheltered life AND a weak stomach huh !!
Well, we know your horse is NOT doped or otherwise altered to recognize the need for speed..........................eh Spee Dee !!
I can only PRAY you do not teach science (or anything else for that matter) to our kids. Got a flash for ya Spee Dee.........SHOT 2006 to present is LONGER than 5 minutes !! AND, few kids inhabit this place and NONE of us are in your back seat. 5sub |
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Posted: 9/30/2007 11:16:37 AM EDT
[#34]
I can only pray that you don't teach reading comprehension (or anything else for that matter) to our kids. Sorry the words "reminds me of..." were so far over your head. Seems everyone else got it though. Hmmmmmm. |
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Posted: 9/30/2007 11:24:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5subslr5]
[#35]
RRA Steve,
I'm not here to JUST enjoy the comedic spectacle nor to JUSTprovide comic relief. I want to be a buyer though I'm a second echelon buyer. My minimum bar is not exactly high: 1) The LAR-8 must ship and work correctly. 2) The LAR-8 must ship and work correctly with FAL mags. I have little interest in another .308/7.62 that will not work with FAL mags. 3) I want a carbine and a chrome lined barrel and FF rails. I won't buy a 5.56 with a chromemoly barrel and I won't buy a 7.62 with a chromemoly barrel.* Why ?? Because, like most of us, I shoot dirty, cruddy, OUT OF SPEC MilSurp in my .308's and 5.56's (with chrome lined barrels) and I won't shoot MilSurp in either a chromemoly OR stainless steel barrel. I only have a souple of rifles with SS barrels left now and buy 'good stuff' to feed them. ------------------------------------------------ Totally unrelated question RRA Steve. I understand I must have an FFL for RRA to ship but must I have an FFL to just place an order ?? (The BATF forced my long time dealer out of business and I haven't found a replacement as yet.) 5sub *In addition to not buying an LAR-8 with chromemoly, I also will not buy a DPMS or Eagle Arms with chromemoly either. Nothing to do with brand...........chromemoly is just not acceptable to me for the reason I've stated. |
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Posted: 9/30/2007 11:47:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5subslr5]
[#36]
Alright. Just post the good news you were speaking about. And hold so I can see it from the back seat ! 5sub |
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Posted: 10/1/2007 9:23:12 AM EDT
[#37]
The first models to ship will probably be the 16" mid A2s and A4s, then the 20" standard A2 and A4, followed by the 26" Varmints. At a certain point production will be intermingled amongst all models. They will ship in date order within models, from oldest order to newest order.
Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 10/1/2007 12:06:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Totally unrelated question RRA Steve.
I understand I must have an FFL for RRA to ship but must I have an FFL to just place an order ?? (The BATF forced my long time dealer out of business and I haven't found a replacement as yet.) 5sub |
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Posted: 10/1/2007 12:16:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Sub,
We require (by policy, not law) that the FFL dealer place the order. Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 10/1/2007 4:47:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Understand .........makes sense. 5sub |
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Posted: 10/1/2007 5:03:37 PM EDT
[#41]
 But, then again, I'll be happy to see any shipping because that'll mean that my standard 20inch A2 isn't that far off... Forrest |
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Posted: 10/2/2007 10:49:38 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm just looking forward to e-mailing you to say:
Forrest...run to your dealer. Run Forrest. Run.".... Steve/RRA |
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Posted: 10/3/2007 12:12:42 AM EDT
[#43]
Since I work at my dealer, I won't have far to run... But I know what you mean, Steve... Forrest |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2007 8:46:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for the update Steve
How is this not good news 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/4/2007 2:45:04 PM EDT
[#45]
You'll probably get so excited you'll run into a wall. LOL.
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Posted: 10/4/2007 3:50:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Missed that one. Forrest, I thought you WERE the dealer !! 5sub |
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Posted: 10/10/2007 1:24:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Hey, BATFE recognizes me as a 'responsible person' on the Hickman Rifles LLC license. It's nice to have at least someone recognize you as responsible... Then again, we are talking about BATFE... Forrest |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2007 6:43:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Steve,
Any pictures yet of those test rifles? Maybe we need to put out an APB on those rascals Steve-Indy |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2007 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#50]
I concur. Maybe we need to do an IHR to recover some pics...
Any word... surely you have had enough time to walk our back and take some pics. Please remember, it doesn't have to be show room clean. 8654 |
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