Who makes the best Gas Piston Retrofit kit.
Trying to decide on which MFG to go with.

Thanks

I installed an Ares (now Bushmaster) kit and like it alot.  Zero malfs after nearly 1000 rounds.  Has not affected accuracy from original DI system.

Russ4777 how much cleaner does your upper run after you installed your ARES piston kit?  Do you know if it will fit under a Surefire M73 rail kit?

Quoted: Russ4777 how much cleaner does your upper run after you installed your ARES piston kit?  Do you know if it will fit under a Surefire M73 rail kit?

The inside of the upper stays much cleaner than a DI gas system.  The downside is that the inside of the upper handguard gets dirtier since the gasses from the piston housing vent into this area.

Don't know about clearance with any other handguard  other than the one provided with the kit.

the Adams arms gas piston conversion kit is getting tons of rave reviews.....also has 3 different settings you can use, and the piston can be taken out and cleaned without messing with the handguards......and they have  LOTS of rails that work with there system

Thank you very much.

I was leaning towards a PWS. In their system(PWS) is there any bolt carrier cant while
in operation?( Ive been a guinea pig on too many new products)
Any out of the ordinary wear and tear.
Is the PWS ajustable for use with a suppressor?
I do like that the handguard do not have to be removed to access the system.

Quoted: Stay away from the drop in kits -- if you want a piston go Hk or LWRCI The others don't address carrier tilt, or pin in the gas block.   Show me a Piston Drop in that can fire 10k of rounds in a week and I will revise my feelings....

Perhaps you could share with us the actual experiences you have had with one or more of the available kits.

Quoted: Stay away from the drop in kits -- if you want a piston go Hk or LWRCI The others don't address carrier tilt, or pin in the gas block.   Show me a Piston Drop in that can fire 10k of rounds in a week and I will revise my feelings....

OK, I'll take the bait...

Ares Defense did address carrier tilt and when the USPTO publishes our patent application for the Black Lightning drop-in piston kit, then you can see exactly how it was addressed. We did not approach carrier tilt by using the "dog-knot" (circumferential ring of larger diameter on the back of the carrier, some companies using "ski's" and similar methods for limiting carrier tilt) approach on the rear of the carrier for a very good reason, and here it is:

There are literally millions of AR15/M16's in the global marketplace. They have been produced by many different companies under many different manufacturing/QA guidelines. If a company's approach to fixturing the lower receiver forging for machining is substandard (and many are), then the receiver extension tube thread in the lower receiver may not be concentric the the bore axis, and accordingly, nor will the carrier be concentric to the receiver extension tube. So, if a receiver extension tube's concentricity to the bore-axis is out only a small amount, or if there is any angularity (even a very small amount), then the "dog-knot" approach to carrier tilt will cause the carrier to bind in the receiver extension tube somewhere in it's 3-3/4" stroke length. Did you ever wonder why a carrier's diameter is reduced from a nominal .995 to .930 along the portion that travels in the receiver extension tube? If you have, then now you know why.

Having said that, remember that our kit (now being produced by Bushmaster under exclusive license) retrofits to most OEM carbines. However, some manufacturer's have oversized passage in the upper receiver and tilt may show more. The fix to this is to use a quality manufacturer/supplier for your upper receiver; i.e.: a company that exercises quality control and establishes/enforces reasonable tolerances in the components they produce.

Finally, you want to know which "drop-in" piston kit will go 10,000 rounds in one week and so I'll tell you that too. We fired our patent-pending Black Lightning kit (the first true "drop-in" kit) at Bushmaster's facility and exceeded 10,000 rounds in one day, with no malfunctions! If you have your doubts, view the inside front cover of Bushmaster's 2008 catalog where they reiterate the point. Also, some operators in Afghanistan have been employing Black Lightning kits in their M4's for over 2-1/2 years! Do you really think they would be betting their lives on our Black Lightning "drop-in" piston kits on a daily basis if they were experiencing any problems with it? I don't, and I don't believe that most reasonable people would think so either.

Originally Posted By Ares Defense: Quoted: Stay away from the drop in kits -- if you want a piston go Hk or LWRCI The others don't address carrier tilt, or pin in the gas block.   Show me a Piston Drop in that can fire 10k of rounds in a week and I will revise my feelings.... OK, I'll take the bait... Ares Defense did address carrier tilt and when the USPTO publishes our patent application for the Black Lightning drop-in piston kit, then you can see exactly how it was addressed. We did not approach carrier tilt by using the "dog-knot" (circumferential ring of larger diameter on the back of the carrier, some companies using "ski's" and similar methods for limiting carrier tilt) approach on the rear of the carrier for a very good reason, and here it is: There are literally millions of AR15/M16's in the global marketplace. They have been produced by many different companies under many different manufacturing/QA guidelines. If a company's approach to fixturing the lower receiver forging for machining is substandard (and many are), then the receiver extension tube thread in the lower receiver may not be concentric the the bore axis, and accordingly, nor will the carrier be concentric to the receiver extension tube. So, if a receiver extension tube's concentricity to the bore-axis is out only a small amount, or if there is any angularity (even a very small amount), then the "dog-knot" approach to carrier tilt will cause the carrier to bind in the receiver extension tube somewhere in it's 3-3/4" stroke length. Did you ever wonder why a carrier's diameter is reduced from a nominal .995 to .930 along the portion that travels in the receiver extension tube? If you have, then now you know why. Having said that, remember that our kit (now being produced by Bushmaster under exclusive license) retrofits to most OEM carbines. However, some manufacturer's have oversized passage in the upper receiver and tilt may show more. The fix to this is to use a quality manufacturer/supplier for your upper receiver; i.e.: a company that exercises quality control and establishes/enforces reasonable tolerances in the components they produce. Finally, you want to know which "drop-in" piston kit will go 10,000 rounds in one week and so I'll tell you that too. We fired our patent-pending Black Lightning kit (the first true "drop-in" kit) at Bushmaster's facility and exceeded 10,000 rounds in one day, with no malfunctions! If you have your doubts, view the inside front cover of Bushmaster's 2008 catalog where they reiterate the point. Also, some operators in Afghanistan have been employing Black Lightning kits in their M4's for over 2-1/2 years! Do you really think they would be betting their lives on our Black Lightning "drop-in" piston kits on a daily basis if they were experiencing any problems with it? I don't, and I don't believe that most reasonable people would think so either.

So the Bushmaster kit addresses the tilt?

Quoted: Originally Posted By Ares Defense: Quoted: Stay away from the drop in kits -- if you want a piston go Hk or LWRCI The others don't address carrier tilt, or pin in the gas block.   Show me a Piston Drop in that can fire 10k of rounds in a week and I will revise my feelings.... OK, I'll take the bait... Ares Defense did address carrier tilt and when the USPTO publishes our patent application for the Black Lightning drop-in piston kit, then you can see exactly how it was addressed. We did not approach carrier tilt by using the "dog-knot" (circumferential ring of larger diameter on the back of the carrier, some companies using "ski's" and similar methods for limiting carrier tilt) approach on the rear of the carrier for a very good reason, and here it is: There are literally millions of AR15/M16's in the global marketplace. They have been produced by many different companies under many different manufacturing/QA guidelines. If a company's approach to fixturing the lower receiver forging for machining is substandard (and many are), then the receiver extension tube thread in the lower receiver may not be concentric the the bore axis, and accordingly, nor will the carrier be concentric to the receiver extension tube. So, if a receiver extension tube's concentricity to the bore-axis is out only a small amount, or if there is any angularity (even a very small amount), then the "dog-knot" approach to carrier tilt will cause the carrier to bind in the receiver extension tube somewhere in it's 3-3/4" stroke length. Did you ever wonder why a carrier's diameter is reduced from a nominal .995 to .930 along the portion that travels in the receiver extension tube? If you have, then now you know why. Having said that, remember that our kit (now being produced by Bushmaster under exclusive license) retrofits to most OEM carbines. However, some manufacturer's have oversized passage in the upper receiver and tilt may show more. The fix to this is to use a quality manufacturer/supplier for your upper receiver; i.e.: a company that exercises quality control and establishes/enforces reasonable tolerances in the components they produce. Finally, you want to know which "drop-in" piston kit will go 10,000 rounds in one week and so I'll tell you that too. We fired our patent-pending Black Lightning kit (the first true "drop-in" kit) at Bushmaster's facility and exceeded 10,000 rounds in one day, with no malfunctions! If you have your doubts, view the inside front cover of Bushmaster's 2008 catalog where they reiterate the point. Also, some operators in Afghanistan have been employing Black Lightning kits in their M4's for over 2-1/2 years! Do you really think they would be betting their lives on our Black Lightning "drop-in" piston kits on a daily basis if they were experiencing any problems with it? I don't, and I don't believe that most reasonable people would think so either. So the Bushmaster kit addresses the tilt?

If they are following our patent-pending bolt carrier design, then yes, Bushmaster's kit also addresses carrier tilt.

Quoted: Stay away from the drop in kits -- if you want a piston go Hk or LWRCI The others don't address carrier tilt, or pin in the gas block.   Show me a Piston Drop in that can fire 10k of rounds in a week and I will revise my feelings....

+1

anybody seen this device for anti tilt

NM
Sean

Can you use any rail or hand guard with the Ares system?

eh?

a guy over M4carbine.net developed that buffer... it seems to work...

IMHO The best piston powered AR is the AR180. No carrier tilt issues there.

how did they address carrier tilt in that architecture?

most shooters will not go through 10,000 in the lifetime of the rifle, much less a week.

99.9% of shooters are not in combat, we shoot for fun and or self defense.

The Anti (carrier) Tilt Buffers work great, eliminating tilt by about 90%. Im going through the the coating and material finishes gauntlet as we speak, also have been making them with different materials as well. For those who havent seen it, I started a thread on this product. Im currently going through the patent process with this concept, heres a link...  http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=410803&page=3
Thanks guys.
S.H.