Heres higher res photo so yup

You can find the taps on the handguard it really similar to solgw.

But have a question. Is  it n4 upper compatible with L89 rail

Idk if the soglw would fit the gen 3 upper as far as the anti rotation tab on the left side of the upper. Might just be a whole solgw urg

In fact, wear on magwell and on handguard. Looks like a rattlecan job.

To be fair Cerakote also wears like that, if it is wear and not just shut quality

i like to think some people at the command are just laughing at all this

Nerd group buy on FDE SOLGW L89 rails….?  LSUJON? Keylows?

Got my rail and upper back from PSD.  Of course while it was there I finally found a decent priced lower on Tacswap so now I gotta send that to them.  Almost done…

How much are the lowers going for these days?

Allot on GB but not anywhere else lol
I'm not trying to clone a sim upper

They’re all over the place.  I got mine for $300 plus transfer fee.  I’ve seen them from there all the way up to $600. I had just about given up on finding one for a little more than retail and just lucked out on Tacswap.  I was gonna get a blank lower and just FDE it and be done.

Interesting….I got some lowers I need to offload…

Ahhh I'm in the same vien as LsuJon right now. Not interested in a Sim upper.

Need more leaked helo vids

Why do you think it's just a sim upper? They can use sims in the noveske.

Blue mags = sims.

Majority of the pics we have of the Noveskes are actually dedicated sim uppers.

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sim can:
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Before, the sim uppers that were commonly used were just the m4 sim upper with the barrel crudely cut down to mk18 sized.

So they're not just throwing a Sim bcg in their "go to" novekse? Why bother getting a different rail/upper for sims if they already have dedicated sim uppers?

Nope and that's why I raised that question earlier. I was alluding to it being a complete sim upper form what ever company made the rail.

Or just general over thinking and a sim upper rail could've gotten damaged and they just threw on whatever they had as a replacement.

No. Noveske won a couple follow-on contracts after the rifle contracts for "sim-only" guns. They have a few changes to them, including no gas system (no gas hole, no gas block, no gas tube, etc…).

You can of course run sim bolts in regular guns but there's a lot of reasons this isn't ideal. The barrel cleaning alone is a massive PITA. And if you don't get it all out it can cause catastrophic failures with live rounds. Then of course there's the safety aspect, with shit like this happening.

It's much easier and safer to run dedicated sim guns. As Jon mentioned, with dev specifically, back in the 416 era we used to see basic M4 sim guns in their pelican cases or in training events all the time. The Noveske thing just makes a lot more sense to now have their sim gun match their actual rifles in terms of weight, ergos, etc…

There's been this really weird attitude on the internet ever since the Noveske adoption went public of people just waiting around for the Noveske to be "replaced", like people think it's some flash-in-the-plan private purchase that means nothing and was just on a whim and as soon as the weather changes they'll move on to something else. I think that's really short sighted. The sheer amount of investment and time that went in to that procurement in terms of R&D and T&E was monstrous. And the actual procurements are public record, they're easy to find if you search the gov databases. And that doesn't even account for the logistics set up for replacement parts and the replacement schedule. Then there's training, supply logistics, etc… It's not like devgru is out shopping at Cabelas for a "new carbine" every weekend.

With this picture in particular, nobody knows anything. The picture is incredibly smudgy. We don't know whether it's just a replacement rail, an upper, a whole gun, a sim-only thing, etc… Hell we don't even know anything about the guy, it could be an attached CIA dude or a number of other circumstances. Without any other info, it's a pretty vague thing to attempt to clone… and then for what purpose… "Yeah man, this one time, this one guy was seen at a training event with a gun that sorta kinda looked like this and might have had this rail". That's some pretty rando provenance.

It's pretty obvious that dev is constantly testing and evaluating new shit. Especially right now given we don't have some super up-tempo war going on like we did during GWOT. But whether or not those tests end up resulting in something interesting to clone, let alone "replacing" a weapon system they *just* purchased… it's gonna take more than one blurry photo to tell. And probably a lot more time.

The company that Noveske is today is a very different company than it was when they first secured this contract. It wouldn't surprise me at all if dev moves in other directions at some point. But there's still fulfillment going on right now on this particular system. So attempting to clone something this early when literally nothing is known about it just seems kinda pointless. If it's a real project with any level of interestingness, surely more info will come out about it over time. The 416 was the basic, issued platform for 15+ years tho…

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A mil, just in sim guns. Dang.

That's exactly the kinda stuff that gets cloned lol

I agree though, too many unknowns.

But it doesn't make sense to do a handguard swap on a dedicated sim upper, especially when it doesn't look like the handguard would even fit said upper without modification.

And then you got to think what would they move on to. The Noveske seems to fix all the complaints that former members of dev had about the 416.

The only complaint I could see is the limiting Mlok slots on the NSR handguard. And that seems to be something that is getting worked on.

Let’s hope these FDE M4-2K’s get done while forms are still being approved relatively quickly.

right! I'm about to take one of my spare M42Ks and get it cerakoted FDE. I'm about to move states before the can is even completed.

Interesting that one is from last year that was modified in Jan.

Not sure if it's been discussed in this thread but I find this entire rifle to be odd. If there's any info on the solicitation or trials I'd love to see it. The 300 upper makes sense for the most part, though I don't know what compelled them to go with Dead Air, but it makes sense to have a highly accurate 300 upper. The confusion starts with the Stainless Steel 5.56 barrel. I understand SS is more accurate, but at what range are you needing extreme accuracy with a 10.5" 5.56? The difference between a 1 MOA and 2 MOA rifle at 25 yards is miniscule. With Mk262 you might be getting deformation out to 200-250 yards I'm guessing, assuming the 1900 fps threshold is true. But how often are they doing that vs door kicking and other infamous point blank maneuvers? The other possibility is that SS provides better salt water corrosion resistance than CL but that is mostly speculation from what I've seen. This brings me to the next question, which is if the OTB features on this actually work based on the original SOCOM requirement for the 416. Like if I submerge the rifle until there are no bubbles, close bolt, bring out of water and fire within 2 seconds, will it survive? I'm sure no one on here has tried or will for obvious reasons.

.30 cal will drain water while .22 cal bores can trap water.

I also suspect there was the desire to have the same upper configuration in 5.56 and .300 so they could use the 5.56 for training.  Much like how there was a 5.56 Rattler barrel requirement.

Are the 7.62 N6's kosher for a .300 build or the N7 that TinyCrumb posted? Already have a Sandman S Mil but would like to change to an AAC as I've had to send my Sandman S in twice.

AAC just did a big run of SDN-6s that they claimed was for a contract. It also happened to be *right* after they did the run of 416-SDs. It’s a big assumption obviously with no evidence, photographic or otherwise, but it seems pretty logical to me. 🤷‍♂️

The SDN7 was just a one-off / prototype that a buddy of mine purchased.

Idk what these new contract SDN6s were for.

However, I do know they used the SDN6 on the No wakes along with other cans but most choose not to use the sdn6 due to the size.

Gotcha, I'm considering ordering one of the contract SDN-6's from a site that has them currently. I'm a bit fed up with DA quality control.

Right so the question is still relevant to the 5.56 upper


I would say link but I just got my Sandman and have no issues yet and tired of dumping money on guns lol. If I could find a M4-2000 or 416-SD maybe different story.

My original Sandman S (non mil contract) that I've had for 5 years has been a fuckin champ. DA quality has definitely gone down as a lot of people have mentioned but this MIL contract one I've had has been a total lemon.

The barrels went through some extreme testing with tens of thousands of rounds and met the longevity requirements,  while holding an accuracy edge.  If the stainless holds up, may as well take the improved accuracy too.

Following all the drama that has been going on with DA and their customer service issues, are you guys still buying Sandman-S cans? I really like the way the "Military Contract" can looks and I have several rifles that already use keymo/keymicro and the hub, just no actual DA cans.

I would avoid them.  I have 3 DA cans and was lucky enough t to sell 2 so far.  So glad to get out of them.

Sent you an IM not sure if it went through.

I thought the FDE Sandman-S Mil Contract cans (the newer ones anyway) were fine, particularly when used with .300 blackout?

I know of 3 people (including myself) in this thread who's had issues with them lol

It's crazy that sandmans are having problems. They used to be the gold standard for cans that will take anything and have no issues.

I remember the issues with 5.56 (which obviously shouldn't be an issue anyway, given it's a .30 cal can), but what sorts of problems did you guys have running .300 through it? End cap strikes?

Anyone have a source for the DDC SBCH?  Or is everyone running the regular Geissele one?

My key mod mount broke and would no longer get tight enough.  I luckily caught it before anything super bad happened.

took about a 6 weeks to get the replacement part from DA.

The one thing that's weird (to me) about the key mod mount and how the suppressor locks up is that I'm so used to Surefire SOCOM suppressors where you tighten the ring and the latch engages and after that, it doesn't move - you have to press the latch in order to take it off. It has the SLIGHTEST movement when twisting, but it's so minimal it's clearly not an issue, and it's not moving side to side or anything - it's clearly locked up just fine.

With the Dead Air, I'll tighten it up and it's definitely snug - no play at all. But I'm able to twist it (without the locking mechanism moving) so that the notch starts moving away from the locked position. Sort of makes me nervous, but I suppose it's not going to do that anyway unless I actually grip to move it.

Maybe I'm overthinking it and even during firing/movement, the can isn't going to untwist itself (so long as the mount is stable (which it is).

Not sure if that makes any sense, but like I said, I'm just used to Surefire cans and how they engage/lock - this is new to me with Dead Air.

I know I don’t have a substantial amount of rounds through mine, I’m hoping to change that soon since I just retired, but I haven’t had any issues so far.  I’ll be sure to let y'all know if I do.

I've put about 100 rounds of a mix of 7.62 and 6.5CM through my Sandman-S MIL and had no issues, so far. I've put maybe a box of 300blk through the can. That's not a huge round count but was with some higher pressure rounds than 208gr 300blk.

One can hasn't had any issues. (Granted it's only ever fired subs through it)

The other 17xx mil can had an issue with the endcap constantly spinning off with both subs and supers. This was using their endcap wrench on a vise.
Also, the Keymo mount would only torque down correctly on standard fullsize flash hiders/mb. It will not work on the keymicro mounts. Tightening/loosening the collar did nothing.

DA provided a tighter toleranced cap and I torqued and rocksetted the hell out out of it. Basically turning it into a sealed can.

I'll never buy another DA can or another suppressor with a "modular" endcap.

It's a dedicated Noveske sim upper with a SOLGW rail on it.

It's a Noveske sim upper with a SOLGW rail on it. The gunsmiths put some SOLGW rails on a couple of the sim uppers.

So the Sandman is a maraca waiting to happen and the AAC cans are super limited run with a mounting system that everyone hates? This cloning shit sucks

“Everyone” seems like a bit of a generalization. I certainly don’t. What’s to hate? It’s quick and easy to get on/off. Doesn’t carbon lock. Repeatable with minimal POI shift. The flash hider itself is really effective if needing/wanting to shoot unsuppressed. It’s not overly heavy. Mounts are affordable and still manufactured.

I’ve been using them consistently for almost 15 years now and still have great experience with them. 🤷‍♂️

I’d take it every day and two times on Sunday over the garbage key-mo that’s on my Sandman. And I’d pick it over Surefires.

I've got thousands of rounds of 5.56 on my sandman-S Mil contract with no issue. Other than the weight, I'm really happy with it.

We'll see how it holds up to 6 arc next.