I'm wanting to build a long range hunting rifle and I am debating on which barrel to go with. I'm looking mainly at the Fulton and Black Hole Weaponry barrels.

Fulton Armory:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelfatitan20nmhbarss1x12936gasblock.aspx

Black Hole Weaponry:
http://www.blackholeweaponry.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=98

Which would be better and why? Or is there another barrel out there that is better?

Thanks for your help!

it'll cost you twice as much, but you cant beat a Kreiger for a long range AR.
I deer hunt with mine (chambered in .260rem) out to 700yards.

+1 on the .260 Rem for long range.  The .308 is not a long-range cartridge, unless one counts 600yds as long range.  Once you go .260 Rem in the AR10, there is no turning back.

J75 gets some amazing groups with his .260 Rem AR with Kreiger barrel and 140gr Berger VLD's...one-holers at 100yds for 5-rounds.  

I get .4" groups for 5 rounds at 100yds with my Bartlein barrel and 139gr Scenars, but I'm still developing some loads for several different bullets.

I have been able to shoot .75 MOA 3-round groups at 700m in shifting full-value winds at Lapua's test range in Finland.

ok sorry thats my fault, I meant to say which of these 2 barrels is better or another barrel thats $350 or less.

I dont have experience with either, but Criterion has a great track record. that said the BHW barrel has a .750 gasblock size, which I prefer. I'd still prolly want to turn it down ($75 or so) though because .980 under the guards is piggish. IMO, if it were me, I'd probably get a Rainier Ultramatch barrel. I like the profile, and its 395 so not too much more than these others.

Noveske .308 N6. My MK12 Mod0 sports a Krieger but that's 5.56

why is 308 not a long range cartridge?  I see this from time to time, and then I watch snipers on utube knockin rag heads out between
800-1100yds..........

308 is a fine 1000Y cartridge, given the proper bullet load and barrel length.

+1

6.5mm (  .260 cal ) bullets can be made to move out at a faster MV.  Bullet coefficients are comparable.  There is a slight trade off in foot lbs of energy on impact however the 260 makes up for it in accuracy.  It has less felt felt recoil, muzzle climb, etc  and is more controllable than the 308.  6.5 bullets are cheaper than 308 too.

The 308 is still a great cartridge though.  Rather than comparing the two just get one in each caliber. JMKO

it is a fine long range cartridge, thats why the US Army uses it as a sniper rifle out to 800 and the USMC uses it also but out to 1000, is what they say they recommend atleast.

I would like to maybe eventually build another upper in the .260rem but this one is going to be a .308 Im not asking about what cartridge, just which barrel would be best. I dont know much about BHW and their different style of grooving, thats kind of why I picked them and the Fulton bc they have good quality and it is a match grade barrel.

Also I didnt know about the twist, BHW is 1x11 and Fulton is 1x12, will that make much of a difference?

As long as wind conditions are very calm or non-existent, you can reach out with .308, but the moment the wind kicks in, you're screwed.  There's a great video of a MARSOC sniper with a Mk11 making a hit at 900m in the crackistan, but his spotter gave him .2 Mils of windage before taking the shot, meaning no real wind.  These are guys that have watched a ton of M118 and M852 go downrange through a spotting scope, so they can take the effective range of the cartridge out much further knowing they have to shoot the conditions quickly before they change.

If you can afford to spend 8 weeks day after day after day tossing .308 match ammo out onto iron maidens, and get married to your gun, yeah, you'll have better hit probability with .308 past 600yds.  If you are a civilian and can only shoot 1 or 2 weekends a month at best, you'll get much better results with a .260 Rem.

I personally have spent a lot of trigger time behind M24's, TRG's, AI's, and AR10's chambered in .308, so I'm painfully aware of the capabilities and limitations of the cartridge.  My point to post was to make clear that .308 is not really a long-range cartridge when realistic wind conditions come into play.  I tried to fight that reality myself, and lost, especially in competition, which is why all my AR10 builds will be in .260 Remington.

For the OP, you're asking a lot for the price you're willing to pay.  If you're looking for an accuracy guarantee, you need to fork out more dough than $350.

I had a 6.5 grendel built with a black hole weaponry barrel and it is a shooter. Shoots excellent groups with reloads. Have shot several groups at 100 yards in the .3 and .4 range with 1/2" the norm. But I am having Scott at Specialized Dynamics build me a 260 as we speak. It will have a Bartlein barrel. Have heard excellent things about them and went with that barrel on the 260 build.

And I thank you very much for your help and opinion but I doubt Ill really do much long range shooting with it and if I do itll just be for fun at the range, I plan on buying a 300WM for the real long range shooting, I just like to try and stay with guns where I can get ammo cheap and easily if needed as I dont reload yet.

Depends how heavy a bullet you plan on shooting. Typically, I tighter twist (1X11) is used for shooting heavier bullets. The tighter twist puts more spin on the bullet as it travels down the barrel. I am not in the AR-10 world yet, but my experience in other calibers have taught me to go with the tighter twist. If you are familiar with the .223/5.56 you know the 1:7 twist barrel is what the military uses in all their rifles. This allows them to shoot bullets up to 75 gr , but removes some of the lighter bullets like 30 and 40 gr bullets ( not sure the military would ever want to use such a small bullet anyways). Decide what you will use the rifle for and pick a range of bullet weights. Check what the MAJORITY of manufacturers offer for twist rate if you can't decide. In the end, it is your rifle and you can design and build it how you want, not what someone else says you SHOULD do. research research research.

My responses were based on the title of the thread:  Long Range Precision Barrel

"I'm wanting to build a long range hunting rifle and I am debating on which barrel to go with."

Keep in mind, there are more and more hunters making ethical kills past 1000yds nowadays.  Also, .260 Remington gives you .300 WM trajectories, with better wind drift, so the only reason to go with the WM is if you want more meplat impact and bullet weight on target, plus the significant difference in recoil and cost.

Plus your barrel will wear out a heck of a lot faster (guess thats "added cost" eh?)

And I get that the .260 is a great long range rifle but Im not asking what caliber I should go with, I am going with the .308 on this rifle, all I am trying to figure out is which of these 2 barrels would be better for longer range shooting.

Although LRRPF52, I do have a question for you, using commerical ammo in order which would be the best long range rifle between the .260rem, 7mm-08 or the 300WM?

With regard to twist rates for .308 either 1/10 or 1/11 will be fine. The 1/10 will have a slight theoretical advantage at stabilizing heavier i.e. longer bullets but for practical purposes either will be fine. I'd stay away from 1/12 for sure, though. Some of the barrel makers only offer 1 twist rate so make your choice based on real-world feedback overall. Also some of the barrel makers want to furnish a matching bolt/chamber fit. This is a good thing. If whoever you're considering doesn't furnish a matched bolt ask them if you can send them your bolt to insure proper headspace. This is more important for some of the tighter match chamberings. I have no experience myself with AR-10 barrel makers as all of mine was gained with bolt-action match rifles.

Fulton Armory
Black Hole Weaponry

Links are hot.
Both good choices.
I believe that both companies will back their product.

If push came to shove, I would probably lean toward the Criterion from Fulton because they (Criterion) have a relationship with Krieger and produce barrels for competitive shooters.

If we count the offerings from Black Hills, Corbon, and others and assume you can order those no-problem, I would still lean .260 Rem with the 139gr Lapua Scenars all day long for "best" long-range cartridge.

If you want to hear a bigger bang on steel, and are willing to put up with the recoil, then the .300 WM with 190 SMK's out of a 26" barrel, but the 140gr class of 6.5mm bullets have a better BC than the 190's in .30 bores.

If I were to go with 7mm-08, there are very few commercial match loadings, but it is an edge over .308, with barrel life more like a .308.

.260 is becoming so popular that I'm sure it will have a stronger and stronger following of match loads from Black Hills, Federal, Remington, and others, but most go into long-range shooting with the full intent to only hand-load for their sticks after finding a good load for their particular barrel.

If we're talking AR10's, only the .260 Rem and 7mm-08 are options.  You could get into a WSM or RSAUM, but there is very little support for those right now in the AR10 action, with a few custom builders as the exception.  

Since .260 Rem gives you better ballistics for trajectory than a 190gr SMK, it makes less and less sense to even mess with a .300 WSM.

It is still good that you are getting a .308, because if you do start shooting distance with it, you will learn to start watching the wind very intently, and become painfully aware of its determining effects on long-range hit probability.  What we see in the practical long-range shooting discipline is everyone basically starting out with a .308, then getting them re-barreled in .260 Rem after a few matches, or when they're ready to drop coin on the change.

I went through the same process, and beat my head against the wall with several .308's until I finally went .260 Rem, and wish I had done so with my first or 2nd AR10.  I can say confidently that a choice like that years ago would have raised my teams' placing in all the matches I've shot by at least 3-5 places, which would have made a difference in placing within the top almost 3 every time.

I would also say that if you are going to do a lot of shooting at distances of 500yds and more, invest in quality optics, regardless of the price.  Vortex Viper PST is a great start, then NightForce, now Steiner, Kahles, USO, S&B, Hensholdt.  I consider a zero-stop feature a must, as well as plenty of elevation travel, great glass, positive clicks on the turrets, side focus, and a fine crosshair.

Alright thanks that helps a lot, Im sure that Ill build another AR10 and do a 260 on it, but this one I just want a 308 for kicks and giggles and the fact that I can easily get .308 ammo just about any place that sells ammo mainly. And as far as optics Im looking at Leupold or a Nikon Monarch. What do you know/ think of the SWFA SS 3-9x42 30mm scopes?

Biggest things about the SWFA 3-9x42 that are missing and NO-GO criteria for me are:

No zero-stop
No side focus

They are known for holding up, and since SWFA has taken over the SS line, they have made some significant improvements for a starter scope that won't fail on you.

For the price, I would look into a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 instead, with user-set zero-stop, matching turrets to the reticle, unlimited lifetime warranty, etc.  It makes an excellent scope for the AR10 on a budget, without wasting money on Chinese crap that will fail on you before you open the box.

The 2.5-10x44 doesn't have FFP or side focus, but it does have zero-stop, and you will most likely shoot on 10x all the time anyway, unless hunting closer-range, where range determination isn't a factor.

Check the optics threads for more reviews, but you'll commonly hear how the Viper PST's have features that scopes 2-3x their price only have, and they hold zero through all kinds of temp shifts.  I've owned USO, NF, Leupold, and use Hensholdt, S&B and other high-end scopes that are $3-$4k per, but I can't afford to put them on everything I own.  The Viper PST's are a great scope for the money, since they have most of the high-dollar features at an affordable price.

Also, don't skimp on mounts, as they can make or break you.  LaRue, NF, PRI, DTA, AAD, and others make great mounts that will hold zero and return once detached and re-mounted.  I buy USA and don't look back.  LaRue has a great reputation for making top-notch mounts that return to zero.

Alright Thanks! Ill look into those Vipers and I was planning on a good set of mounts, I always buy American made guns/ parts when I can so my AR15 is 100% American made and my 10 will be too, thanks again!!

I recently put together a MEGA MA-TEN 308 with a 21" Noveske barrel.  I bough the barrel and BCG from Rainier Arms and they will check headspace for no extra charge before they ship it out. The barrel was pretty expensive, but I figure it's the most important part of the weapon. I'm thinking about getting a Bushnell HDMR.

I love those monolithic uppers from Mega.  Wish they would make one without rails at 3, 6, and 9, like on their AR15 offerings.

It almost hurts me to see a 1" scope on a rifle of such expense.  We have it backwards in the US:  We tend to spend bank on the stick, the slap economy glass on it.  This is one of the reasons why I like the Vortex Viper and Viper PST scopes, since they are affordable, but have high dollar features not seen on any of the competition under $1k.

They do.Check it out
They also have an ambi 308 lower and NiB coatings for 2012.  Mega products are just plain sick

So how well does the 7mm-08 stack up against the 308 and 260 for long range shooting? What about hunting? I know its large enough for deer and I assume elk but what about moose or something?

All are excellent rounds, either one will do the job with the game mentioned above...the 7mm and 6.5mm/.264 will have better B.C. over the 308/7.62mm over longer ranges.
Just keep in mind shot placement and projectile design and sane distances are what make the biggest differences.

Moose are probably easier to drop than Elk. I know folks that have killed Moose with 30/30s. They just walk a little further cause they do not know they are dead. I have never had the honor to hunt Elk. I just listen to the stories.

AL

Anyone know where I can get ahold of a 20" SS 7mm-08 barrel other than BHW?

Criterion barrels are button rifled barrels made by krieger in the same plant. Kriegers cut rifled barrels are some of the best made, in 17 years I have never received a bad barrel blank.
Criterion are good barrels, lapped and double stress relieved, some 410 stainless that will last longer than the 416 stainless.

Okay sorry one more question, which would most effectively take deer or elk out the furthest the 7mm-08 or the .308? And how far would it be?

7mm, because it will shoot flatter than .308 and retain more velocity, has excellent sectional density and you're limited as to bullet length in either.

Damn, now I want a Armalite AR10T in 260.  LRRPF what do you think of this rifle?  I have a 1K range, so yeah I know the limitations of the .308.

well I have no dog in this hunt other than my rock river .308 has a 1/10 twist and it shoots the longer heavier bullets very well  if this helps you on rifling twist . I would go 1/11 minimum . the polygonal rifling on the black hole barrels tweaks my interest but I would like to see one in person first . personally I would look to the super sniper 3x9 or even the weaver 3x10 tactical before dropping the coin on a vortex . I have rifles with all three and the super sniper has the best glass in my limited use . the weaver is a very nice mil/mil scope that has resetable zero and has held up to my 308 and my 458 socom if that helps. the vortex while nice leaves a question mark with me . It functioned just fine but for the money I would look else where . the glass is no better than the weaver and not close to the super sniper plus I keep reading my vortex did this or did that but they have great customer service . well for me when im out hunting and have a nice buck in my sights I dont want nice customer service I want  scope that I can depend on. I have been down that road with one of there red dot sights and wont go there again for anything serious.
hope this helps some and for what its worth the very reason I got a 308 was I can stop at any wally world , alot of farm anfleet type stores or hardware store in my area and pick up ammo.

I checked out the Armalite .260 Rem at SHOT, and I think they have a great match-grade rifle.  They use a select match Douglas, air-gauged stainless barrel for the .260 Rem, so it isn't some rack-grade ER Shaw barrel.  They also make it in a 22" barrel length, which is what I went with when I had GA Precision build mine.

It would be nice to have the SASS gas block or an adjustable if you are going to hand-load, which is what almost all .260 Rem shooters do anyway.  It only makes sense to find the Optimal Barrel Time load for your particular rifle, not some box ammo meant for a 24" or 26" barrel.

I think Armalite made a good move with their .260 Rem AR10T.  It's priced right too.

Does Krieger off their match barrels in .308? Or just 7.62 Nato?

I only ask because I think they only do .223 and not 5.56 for their match grade barrels

Thanks, I think Im gonna pull the trigger on one in the next week or so.

Tell that to the guys killing folks at 1000+ yards with a .308....

How good are the Bison Armory barrels in 7.62 NATO? I know there isn't a huge amount of difference in performance between the 18 and 20" but would the 20" be better?

not to hi-jack the thread, but what about betweenFulton

and JP barrel in the 20'ish inch length.  

I have the Criterion from Fulton Armory. 22" Stainless 1-10 NM Other than being heavy, I am quite pleased.

Yes, in calm or no-wind conditions, you can make a 1000yd hit 1st-round with the .308, but it is uncommon.  Most shots are in the 300-600m range, with a few past that.  Everyone likes to cite the 1000yd .308 sniper rifle cliche, but the reality is that it is not a good cartridge for that range.  Anyone with extensive trigger time behind one will tell you the same thing.  I spent a good part of my life behind M24's and .308 AR's, and I am painfully aware of the capabilities and limitations of that cartridge.

On our transition ranges, the 900m target was usually 2 E-Type silhouettes side-by-side on the same pop-up target base, because making a hit on a single E-type with the M24 at 900m in normal conditions with wind is an exercise in chasing the conditions, unless you hold for a calm wind.  Not exactly ideal, but if you read all the books, play all the video games, and watch all the movies, you'd think that .308 Sniper Rifle = 1000yd sure-shot all day long.  It ain't.

Could you be a little more condescending?      

I'll make sure to tell all my Marine Corps pals that the .308 isn't shit at that range.  Somehow they've been making it work for 5 decades or more, but like you said, since you can't shoot for shit with it, it must mean that no one else can....

No condescension intended.  .308 is what it is.  Yes, US military snipers have been making effective use of the 7.62 NATO match for decades, but very seldom are hits made at 1000yds.  I've made 1st-round hits at a lazed 1118yds, but the conditions were perfect, and I was lucky.  I know Marines who were 0317's who have watched a long-range shooter friend of mine make a 1st-round hit at 1000yds.  Their response:

"Dude!  You just made a 1st-round hit at 1000yds with a .308!"  Why would they say that if it's a great 1000yd cartridge?

If you look at the current trends in the sniping community, with bolt guns, everyone is going or has gone to .338 LM, or .300 WM.-cartridges that deliver a much higher probability of a 1st-round hit from 700m-1200m or even 1500m+ with the .338 LM.

My point is that there is a lot of disinformation in magazine articles and false perceptions based on internet hype by people who haven't really spent any considerable time behind a precision .308 rifle in a military setting.  The .308 is a great cartridge for 300-600m engagements.  You can tell your Marine buddies whatever you like, as the "...308 ain't s**t at that range."  is your statement, and yours alone.  If you connect at 1000yds, it will deliver a considerable amount of impact on-target, it's just that the wind deflection and sensitivity to wind value changes is such that making a 1st-round hit is not likely in most real-world conditions.  Everyone who has spent time behind a .308 precision rifle and has attempted to make consistent 1st-round hits at 1000yds knows this very well, especially those who have gone through the Quantico Scout Sniper course, where they spend 8 weeks shooting and spotting 7.62 Match going downrange....mostly on 400-800yd targets.

I know it has limitations.  Hell, every single caliber out there (and the platform it's fired from) have limitations in some form or fashion.  Weight, recoil, room in the brass for powder...you name it (I'm sure you can).

All I'm saying is that it can be effective.  It is not the best.  Hell, I'm not sure there is a "best" overall (I like .308 guns, and would prefer a .300 Winchester Magnum or something similar myself in those positions) because new rounds keep getting developed for the expressed purpose of long range engagements (sniper rounds, so to speak)....

Anyway, I wasn't truly attempting to be an ass to you.  Your comments just struck a nerve for some reason.  It's really no big deal (DRINKS ON ME!!)  

This is what I like about .260 Remington, in that you get .300 Win Mag trajectories and as good or better wind deflection, out of a .308 case, with less recoil than a .308.

For hunting, the 6.5x55 Swede has been the most popular all-round hunting caliber in Scandinavia for over a century, and .260 Rem easily duplicates or exceeds 6.5x55 performance.  You can use 90-100gr lighter bullets for varmints, 120-130gr class bullets for medium game, and 140gr+ bullets for large game.  Moose have been hunted and killed with 6.5x55 Swedes for a long time, and hunters have even used it in Africa to take most of the medium and some large, thin-skinned game there.

I have really come to like the .260 Rem a lot, as it is a very flat-shooting, wind-bucking cartridge that makes hits out to 1000yds fairly easy, regardless of what the wind is doing.  I'm happy to live in an area where I can go out into a desert-mountain environment, and shoot as far as the limitations of my rifles reach is, with plenty of natural targets that provide excellent and immediate target feedback both visually and audibly.

I miss living in the San Diego area for that very reason....

Lots of open space!

Alright well I went ahead and bought the FA 20" SS M110 barrel, but I do have another question I am now looking at upper receivers. The FA Titan A4 ($170- FA), FA Titan Slick Side ($150- FA) and the DPMS stripped A3 ($125- Brownells). Is there going to be any big difference between any of them in terms of function? Or Quality? Is there really any need for the forward assist and/or dust cover? The rifle will be used for mostly hunting and plinkering around. I like the price of the DPMS, but I also planning on using mostly FA upper parts which makes me want to use the FA upper.

Oh and if it matters I have a TM-10 lower receiver.

Anyone know about the DPMS stripped upper and the Fulton Armory upper? One better quality than the other? Hoping to buy one soon.

personal i like haveing the FA and dust cover, they can come in handy.

I have several DPMS uppers and have never had a problem. infact I have never heard of anyones
uppers breaking under non-kaboom conditions.
as long as the receivers are straight and true it will have no impact on accuracy.