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Posted: 5/10/2012 12:21:49 PM EST

Anyone here have a 308 SBR?
Care to share a picture?

Is it worth making an SBR 308?
I'll be taking it out to 100 yards max, due to range limitations here.
Not looking for a long range tack driver, though I would still like a fairly accurate rifle.

Would I be better off making a 14.5 and pinning a hider?

Posted: 5/10/2012 1:58:29 PM EST

[#1]

I have an Vector clone HK51 SBR, sporting a 9 or 10 inch barrel. It's pretty much a waste of potential, but it makes me giggle. Pretty expensive giggles, too.

I would say pick another caliber, myself, but I can't really talk.

Posted: 5/10/2012 2:08:54 PM EST

[#2]

For .308 I would probably stick with 16 inches or longer.

Posted: 5/10/2012 3:05:04 PM EST

[#3]

Got a mega 308 16''. Also in market to make it SBR. At this point only real option is to go custom..sending it to adco,adams or any reputable shop to have it custom made. If you pick up a armalite style 308, you could pick up a noveske 12.5'' leonidas. It's pretty much a fun to have kinda thing...from the looks of it. I'll be using a yhm can most of the time, except for the times I wanna blind myself it looks like.

Also check out member 37bullet's mega 308 sbr 10.5''. I've msg'd him about his setup but hasn't gotten back. He also has a vid of it on youtube.

Posted: 5/10/2012 3:25:42 PM EST

[#4]

I was dead set on SBR'ing a MA-TEN using the 12.5 Leonidas barrel. Even had the Form 1 filled out. Decided against it.
The ballistics are pretty horrible - I think the 6.8 & 300 have more knock down, actually. And those that have done it say it's pretty awful to shoot between the muzzle blast and flash. It was going to be for "fun" with a side of kick-ass, problem was, there wasn't much kick-ass, or fun. A $3K paperweight. I would possibly do a 14.5 at some point, but for now I'll stick with my 16.

Posted: 5/10/2012 4:06:47 PM EST

[#5]

I'm 5 months waiting on a stamp right now. 10.5" armalite ar-10.

Posted: 5/10/2012 4:12:23 PM EST

[#6]

And this guy.

SBR 308

Posted: 5/10/2012 5:03:05 PM EST

[#7]

For an SBR, the paperwork and all the BS involved ... it depends on what you want to do with it. If it's for plinking, a range toy or for CQB then I'd go with something that is less expensive to shoot like 9mm or 223. 308 ammo is not cheap. I personally would rather have a tip top notch optic for a precision rifle than a range toy.

Posted: 5/10/2012 5:14:21 PM EST

[#8]

Quoted: ... I think the 6.8 & 300 have more knock down, actually....

I'm not buying that one. While a 308 SBR is arguably not optimal, a 175 gr bullet being pushed out of a 12.5in barrel at approximately 2250 fps is easily going to get the job done out to 100+ yards... And that is compared against the same bullet out of a 16 in barrel at around 2450 fps and 2500 fps for a 20in barrel. These numbers are from a printed in 2010 in a Guns and Ammo Combat Arms Magazine article reviewing the LWRC REPR in 12, 16 and 20 inch variants. For those who are interested, LWRC maintains a link to a copy of the article which highlights some advantages and disadvantages of each barrel length.

And now for my obligatory effort at full disclosure, Let it be known that I am currently waiting for my 12in REPR to ship from LWRC so that I can start the painful 6 months NFA wait.

Posted: 5/10/2012 6:41:23 PM EST

[#9]

That may be the case. Congrats on the REPR too!

DAMMIT. Now I'm starting to want a 12.5 again. Shit I've dropped a ton of dough on BRD already this year.

Posted: 5/10/2012 7:57:13 PM EST

[#10]

I am not a fan of piston guns. Never really cared about all these new companies making AR's.

But seriously this does it for me

Posted: 5/11/2012 3:41:21 AM EST

[#11]

Quoted:
For an SBR, the paperwork and all the BS involved ... it depends on what you want to do with it. If it's for plinking, a range toy or for CQB then I'd go with something that is less expensive to shoot like 9mm or 223. 308 ammo is not cheap. I personally would rather have a tip top notch optic for a precision rifle than a range toy.

Already have an SBR 5.56 in the works.
Just waiting on my stamp, and a few parts to complete.

Thought it would be cool to have something with a bit more power as well.
I like SBRs.

Quoted:
Got a mega 308 16''. Also in market to make it SBR. At this point only real option is to go custom..sending it to adco,adams or any reputable shop to have it custom made. If you pick up a armalite style 308, you could pick up a noveske 12.5'' leonidas. It's pretty much a fun to have kinda thing...from the looks of it. I'll be using a yhm can most of the time, except for the times I wanna blind myself it looks like.

Also check out member 37bullet's mega 308 sbr 10.5''. I've msg'd him about his setup but hasn't gotten back. He also has a vid of it on youtube.

I don't mind sending the barrel out to ADCO to be chopped down.
I actually expected to do that.
I'll have plenty of time to get the work done as I have a six month wait for the stamp.

Also, I contacted 37Bullet as well before I posted this!
Great minds think a like.

One thing I did notice with his set-up is not only did he cut the barrel, he also cut the Daniel Defense rail as well.

Quoted:
I'm 5 months waiting on a stamp right now. 10.5" armalite ar-10.

I would love to know how you personally like it once it's finished and stamp in-hand.
I know it kicks like a maul and I'm sure it throws a mean fireball.
Just curious how the accuracy is at 100 yards.

I like the fact that you can swing the SBR around with ease.
Something about a 308 CQB rifle gives me a boner.

Posted: 5/11/2012 1:25:45 PM EST

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For an SBR, the paperwork and all the BS involved ... it depends on what you want to do with it. If it's for plinking, a range toy or for CQB then I'd go with something that is less expensive to shoot like 9mm or 223. 308 ammo is not cheap. I personally would rather have a tip top notch optic for a precision rifle than a range toy.

Already have an SBR 5.56 in the works.
Just waiting on my stamp, and a few parts to complete.

Thought it would be cool to have something with a bit more power as well.
I like SBRs.

Quoted:
Got a mega 308 16''. Also in market to make it SBR. At this point only real option is to go custom..sending it to adco,adams or any reputable shop to have it custom made. If you pick up a armalite style 308, you could pick up a noveske 12.5'' leonidas. It's pretty much a fun to have kinda thing...from the looks of it. I'll be using a yhm can most of the time, except for the times I wanna blind myself it looks like.

Also check out member 37bullet's mega 308 sbr 10.5''. I've msg'd him about his setup but hasn't gotten back. He also has a vid of it on youtube.

I don't mind sending the barrel out to ADCO to be chopped down.
I actually expected to do that.
I'll have plenty of time to get the work done as I have a six month wait for the stamp.

Also, I contacted 37Bullet as well before I posted this!
Great minds think a like.

One thing I did notice with his set-up is not only did he cut the barrel, he also cut the Daniel Defense rail as well.

Quoted:
I'm 5 months waiting on a stamp right now. 10.5" armalite ar-10.

I would love to know how you personally like it once it's finished and stamp in-hand.
I know it kicks like a maul and I'm sure it throws a mean fireball.
Just curious how the accuracy is at 100 yards.

I like the fact that you can swing the SBR around with ease.
Something about a 308 CQB rifle gives me a boner.

Sounds like you may be more interested....in an SBS

Posted: 5/11/2012 3:23:07 PM EST

[#13]

So much fun!

Posted: 5/11/2012 3:28:06 PM EST

[#14]

If you're okay with 7.62x39 ballistics at 7.62x51 cost, sure.

Posted: 5/11/2012 3:46:05 PM EST

[#15]

Yeah I'm okay. If you ever get down to Fla , you should come on out and shoot some AR500 decorated berms with me and my buddies. Ballistics were never the point with SBR's. We all know that already.

Posted: 5/11/2012 4:14:30 PM EST

[#16]

37bullet could you give us some info on your setup? Thanks!

Posted: 5/11/2012 4:18:32 PM EST

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
For an SBR, the paperwork and all the BS involved ... it depends on what you want to do with it. If it's for plinking, a range toy or for CQB then I'd go with something that is less expensive to shoot like 9mm or 223. 308 ammo is not cheap. I personally would rather have a tip top notch optic for a precision rifle than a range toy.

Already have an SBR 5.56 in the works.
Just waiting on my stamp, and a few parts to complete.

Thought it would be cool to have something with a bit more power as well.
I like SBRs.

Quoted:
Got a mega 308 16''. Also in market to make it SBR. At this point only real option is to go custom..sending it to adco,adams or any reputable shop to have it custom made. If you pick up a armalite style 308, you could pick up a noveske 12.5'' leonidas. It's pretty much a fun to have kinda thing...from the looks of it. I'll be using a yhm can most of the time, except for the times I wanna blind myself it looks like.

Also check out member 37bullet's mega 308 sbr 10.5''. I've msg'd him about his setup but hasn't gotten back. He also has a vid of it on youtube.

I don't mind sending the barrel out to ADCO to be chopped down.
I actually expected to do that.
I'll have plenty of time to get the work done as I have a six month wait for the stamp.

Also, I contacted 37Bullet as well before I posted this!
Great minds think a like.

One thing I did notice with his set-up is not only did he cut the barrel, he also cut the Daniel Defense rail as well.

Quoted:
I'm 5 months waiting on a stamp right now. 10.5" armalite ar-10.

I would love to know how you personally like it once it's finished and stamp in-hand.
I know it kicks like a maul and I'm sure it throws a mean fireball.
Just curious how the accuracy is at 100 yards.

I like the fact that you can swing the SBR around with ease.
Something about a 308 CQB rifle gives me a boner.

Sounds like you may be more interested....in an SBS

AOW is in the works.
Most likely going to go with a Serbu.
That's later on though.

Quoted:
Yeah I'm okay. If you ever get down to Fla , you should come on out and shoot some AR500 decorated berms with me and my buddies. Ballistics were never the point with SBR's. We all know that already.

I'm in South Florida, where you at?

I wouldn't mind watching you shoot it in-person.

I'm not looking to have a tack driver, though I would like it to be some what accurate.
At least up to 100-200 yards.

Aside from not having a range to take past 200 yards.
I also can't imagine wanting to do so as I will be putting an Aimpoint T1 on it.

Though I do understand why some might see its s a waste, as the round is superb for long range accuracy with the proper set-up.
As I said, even if I build it with a 16" barrel, It won't be used for tac-driver purposes. I will most likely NOT be putting a magnified optic on it unless its an ACOG.

Posted: 5/11/2012 5:42:42 PM EST

[#18]

I debated the SBR 308, but decided it wasn't worth it in the long run. I have several 223 SBRs, a 5.45 SBR, and will be going with a 300 BLK to meet my short range 30 cal needs.

Posted: 5/11/2012 5:52:11 PM EST

[#19]

Quoted:
I debated the SBR 308, but decided it wasn't worth it in the long run. I have several 223 SBRs, a 5.45 SBR, and will be going with a 300 BLK to meet my short range 30 cal needs.

I would go with a 300 BLK set-up, but I like the fact that the 308 is a well established round.
Aside from the fact that it has a proven track record, fairly good surplus sources seem to come up once in a while as well.
Not to mention the fact that 300 BLK is more expensive.

I find the 300 BLK, 6.8, Grendel rounds to be gimmick rounds.
Will they be around in 30-40 years? Who knows.
If they don't get adopted by police and military forces, probably not.

Though I'd love to hear why you think the 308 is not worth it in the long run to SBR.

Posted: 5/11/2012 6:22:43 PM EST

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I debated the SBR 308, but decided it wasn't worth it in the long run. I have several 223 SBRs, a 5.45 SBR, and will be going with a 300 BLK to meet my short range 30 cal needs.

I would go with a 300 BLK set-up, but I like the fact that the 308 is a well established round.
Aside from the fact that it has a proven track record, fairly good surplus sources seem to come up once in a while as well.
Not to mention the fact that 300 BLK is more expensive.

I find the 300 BLK, 6.8, Grendel rounds to be gimmick rounds.
Will they be around in 30-40 years? Who knows.
If they don't get adopted by police and military forces, probably not.

Though I'd love to hear why you think the 308 is not worth it in the long run to SBR.

I think that most of them will be around for quite some time. The whisper/blackout has been around a long time. Got to be close to 40 years or better already. This recent push just cemented its place in history. With NFA stuff becoming more mainstream I think it is here to stay.

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:04:49 PM EST

[#21]

Get a 762 krink. Like someone else said, you will not be using the .308 ballistics in a barrel that short anywhere near their potential.

Posted: 5/12/2012 1:36:43 AM EST

[#22]

So much fun.

Wears an Aimpoint Comp M4 now.

Posted: 5/12/2012 6:22:59 AM EST

[#23]

Quoted:
So much fun.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u247/SaturationTech/308SBR.jpg

Wears an Aimpoint Comp M4 now.

That is a great picture

That a Leonidas barrel?

Posted: 5/12/2012 10:40:36 AM EST

[#24]

Quoted:
If you're okay with 7.62x39 ballistics at 7.62x51 cost, sure.

For an undergrad, you seem to fail at mathematics.

This is simply untrue. First, let's assume that a 12.5" .308 is the same size as a 16" AK (it's actually a bit shorter by a couple inches, but makes for easy comparison, while even keeping the barrel length advantage in the AK's favor.

With 130gr 7.62x51 out of a 12.5" barrel, you cook along at ~2700fps. A 123gr. 7.62x39 it's only 2350fps. That 350fps faster, 15% more velocity, and approx. 200 extra yards before transonic range.

WIth the .308 you also get the advantage of using higher weight projectiles, 175/178gr. being about the max you can load and still fit into the mag. This ends up being similar velocity, but weighs 42% more, and still gives an additional 300 yards before transonic.

So your statement is patently false.

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:12:28 PM EST

[#25]

Quoted from elsewhere on the same subject.

150 gr HPBT Win 748 loaded to a chamber pressure of 56.4K PSI WARM load 45 gr NOT a starting load. I chose 748 as the powder as it is most like NATO powder.

26" = 2918 FPS MP= 6.6K PSI ––99.6 % powder burnt -2836 ft/lbs
24" = 2873 FPS MP= 7.4K PSI ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––2750 ft/lbs
22" = 2823 FPS MP= 8.2K PSI ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––2655 ft/lbs
20" = 2766 FPS MP= 9.2K PSI ––98.7 % powder burnt -2548 ft/lbs
18" = 2700 FPS MP= 10.5K PSI ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––2428 ft/lbs
16" = 2623 FPS MP= 12.0K PSI -97% powder burnt ––––2291 ft/lbs
14" = 2531 FPS MP= 14.0K PSI ––––––––––––––––––––––––––2133 ft/lbs
12" = 2417 FPS MP= 16.7K PSI -94% powder burnt ––1946 ft/lbs
10" = 2273 FPS MP= 20.5K PSI ––––––––––––––––––––––––––1721 ft/lbs
8.0"= 2080 FPS MP= 26.0K PSI -87% powder burnt. -1441 ft/lbs
6.0"= 1800 FPS MP= 34.1K PSI -79.4% powder burnt -1080 ft lbs

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:43:27 PM EST

[#26]

check out the Armory SBR section

Posted: 5/13/2012 7:23:31 AM EST

[#27]

Not an SBR but having my MWS chopped to 14.5 and pinned with 51T comp as we speak. Similar to another members below:

Posted: 5/13/2012 10:00:27 AM EST

[#28]

with the new .30 cal brake from YHM aka FaceBlaster.

Posted: 5/13/2012 11:44:45 AM EST

[#29]

She's a BEAUTY 37!

That is a damn bulldog man-toy right there.

I'd love to get my hands on a select-fire MA-TEN lower, an adj. gas black, VLTOR A5 tube and some various springs/buffers and see just how much 30cal lead I could get onto a small steel plate. Fine-tune a F/A 308 SBR.

Posted: 5/13/2012 1:47:13 PM EST

[#30]

I made my own Adj gas. Detent- works great. 8 clean clicks from full open to closed. Little ball end drive stays in my MIAD grip.

I'm hoping to make a rail system for the .308 pattern AR's soon so when that gets rolling a Ma-Ten postie might be helpful for testing.

I have another 07/02 friend with a 8" HK51 F/A. That thing is balls to wall fun on steel.

Posted: 5/13/2012 7:12:53 PM EST

[#31]

Here's a pic of my XM177E2 clone and Short gas Para FAL, approximately the same length but not SBR due to the flash hider, O.A.L. of barrel 16.1"
The 308 rounds hit very hard due to the weight and velocity, no where near the 7.62x39 as some claim.
While I would never use it as a long range shooter, It is my shtf go to gun, the AR's all belong to other family members who dont want to tote the extra couple of pounds of metal.

Posted: 5/14/2012 12:16:21 PM EST

[#32]

That is one nice stick!

Posted: 5/14/2012 4:31:13 PM EST

[#33]

Quoted:
Here's a pic of my XM177E2 clone and Short gas Para FAL, approximately the same length but not SBR due to the flash hider, O.A.L. of barrel 16.1"
The 308 rounds hit very hard due to the weight and velocity, no where near the 7.62x39 as some claim.
While I would never use it as a long range shooter, It is my shtf go to gun, the AR's all belong to other family members who dont want to tote the extra couple of pounds of metal.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT4217.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/Aussie_Short_Gas_Para_003.jpg

Thanks for sharing, me like.

Posted: 5/15/2012 4:39:50 PM EST

[#34]

Quoted:
I made my own Adj gas. Detent- works great. 8 clean clicks from full open to closed.

Tell us more, please

jonblack

Posted: 5/16/2012 8:22:17 AM EST

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I made my own Adj gas. Detent- works great. 8 clean clicks from full open to closed.

Tell us more, please

jonblack

In on 1

Posted: 5/16/2012 10:21:50 AM EST

[#36]

Quoted:
Not an SBR but having my MWS chopped to 14.5 and pinned with 51T comp as we speak. Similar to another members below:

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/ShortPin1.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/ShortPin2.jpg

Jason,

let us know how that setup runs. I am considering something similar, but I somewhat concerned about taking the plunge. I might try to scoop up another 16" MWS barrel on the EE as a backup in case I don't like the 14.5 setup.

Posted: 5/16/2012 10:26:53 AM EST

[#37]

dsa makes a fal pistol?

Posted: 5/16/2012 7:23:30 PM EST

[#38]

nope DSA does not make a FAL pistol.

Posted: 5/16/2012 7:46:20 PM EST

[#39]

Quoted:
nope DSA does not make a FAL pistol.

You were saying....

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-Tactical-Pistol-825-barrel-in-308-CAL-Semi-Auto––-SA58TACPISTOL/productinfo/SA58TACPISTOL/

Posted: 5/17/2012 2:43:08 AM EST

[#40]

I stand corrected, I have never seen that before when I've gone to buy parts...

Thanks for pointing it out, I have learned something new today.

Posted: 5/19/2012 7:33:05 AM EST

[#41]

Seems like good ballistics for an SBR 308.

"Accuracy firing with a prototype 12-inch barreled HK417 carbine and 10X optical sight was conducted with user representatives using US M118LR ammunition. Firing multiple 3-shot groups at 100 - 500 yards lines, the average group size for all four shooters was 1.3 MOA from an HK417 carbine with 12-inch barrel!"

Posted: 5/19/2012 8:58:27 AM EST

[#42]

Quoted:
http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/hk417/lg_hk417.jpg

Seems like good ballistics for an SBR 308.

"Accuracy firing with a prototype 12-inch barreled HK417 carbine and 10X optical sight was conducted with user representatives using US M118LR ammunition. Firing multiple 3-shot groups at 100 - 500 yards lines, the average group size for all four shooters was 1.3 MOA from an HK417 carbine with 12-inch barrel!"

Since when did MOA have anything to do with ballistics? Barrel length has nothing to do with precision/accuracy - especially at 100 yards. I'm sure a Noveske 12.5 barrel can shoot SUB MOA.

Ballistics has to do with velocity/distance/drop/expansion/energy etc.

Posted: 5/19/2012 9:10:34 AM EST

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
nope DSA does not make a FAL pistol.

You were saying....

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-Tactical-Pistol-825-barrel-in-308-CAL-Semi-Auto––-SA58TACPISTOL/productinfo/SA58TACPISTOL/

<drool>
my wallet is going to hate me soon

Posted: 5/19/2012 5:44:29 PM EST

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/hk417/lg_hk417.jpg

Seems like good ballistics for an SBR 308.

"Accuracy firing with a prototype 12-inch barreled HK417 carbine and 10X optical sight was conducted with user representatives using US M118LR ammunition. Firing multiple 3-shot groups at 100 - 500 yards lines, the average group size for all four shooters was 1.3 MOA from an HK417 carbine with 12-inch barrel!"

Since when did MOA have anything to do with ballistics? Barrel length has nothing to do with precision/accuracy - especially at 100 yards. I'm sure a Noveske 12.5 barrel can shoot SUB MOA.

Ballistics has to do with velocity/distance/drop/expansion/energy etc.

Agreed. I would like to know if the article had ballistic info. It would be interesting to see how fast that stuff was going out of the short barrel as it has a reputation for being a little warm if I remember right

Posted: 5/20/2012 3:23:03 AM EST

[#45]

I have a FAL OSW with the 13 inch barrel.

It's loud. Can't say I really recommend it for anything; it's just sort of a novelty to me.

Posted: 5/23/2012 1:18:59 PM EST

[#46]

I built an 11.5" DPMS LR308 couple years ago. Nice litte SBR for CQB purposes..

Will try to find some pics for you guys.

Had to open the gasport quite a bit, but got it functioning 100% after som tinkering.

Posted: 5/24/2012 9:09:06 PM EST

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So much fun.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u247/SaturationTech/308SBR.jpg

Wears an Aimpoint Comp M4 now.

That is a great picture

That a Leonidas barrel?

Yep, Noveske Leonidas barrel.

Posted: 5/25/2012 4:38:05 AM EST

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not an SBR but having my MWS chopped to 14.5 and pinned with 51T comp as we speak. Similar to another members below:

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/ShortPin1.jpg

http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/xx166/jasonusvi/ShortPin2.jpg

Jason,

let us know how that setup runs. I am considering something similar, but I somewhat concerned about taking the plunge. I might try to scoop up another 16" MWS barrel on the EE as a backup in case I don't like the 14.5 setup.

Will do. Got it back but wont have a chance to shoot it this weekend.