I'm interested in building a suppressed AR that will likely only shoot subs. It will not be a hunting rig. The 300BLK is on the short list, but I'd like something that shoots larger and heavier bullets since the energy numbers for subs is not that great. I've read the FAQ on the Spectre, but can't find much user experience on it and even less on the Whisper. From what I understand, getting uppers for the Spectre or 458 SOCOM, another candidate, is next to impossible right now. Don't know about the Whisper.

One reason I'm interested in the 338's is the ability to use a 9mm suppressor which I'd like to buy for my USP9 anyway. That would mean only one stamp. I believe 338 Whisper brass can be formed from 223 brass. If so, another plus for it.

Anyone have any experience with either or can direct me somewhere that user info can be found? I've been to the SOCOM forum, but there's not much there on the Spectre.

Thx.

AR-15
338 Spectre
338 Whisper #2

AR-10
338 Whisper

My personal preference "spectre".....I've got some printed info I'll look up.....

Look at Wilson Combat, they have the 458socom going strong right now, and had parts/uppers available last time I checked.

Check the 458 socom forum for a lot of Spectre info.  I have a barrel from Marty before he moved over seas but SBR has barrels in stock for the spectre and there is load data on the socom forums.

I have a couple of 338's, one an SBR and one a 16".  I got one barrel from Marty at Teppo and another through Marty.  He knew someone who had a spare.  The Sprectre uses the 10mm mag brass fromed via a single run through the sizer die.  Brass –– especially suppressed –– lasts forever –– I have some going on 20 reloads.  I have never had brass crack on me.

Both rifles are capable of sub MOA, though I primarily use them for under 100 yards.  They are fantastic on wild pigs, especially suppressed at night in a populated area.  

I was not 100% pleased with my YHM Cobra 9mm can's performance on either the SBR or the 16" because it did not seem to get the subsonic rounds quiet enough and gave me varying POI shifts.  I got a YHM 338 suppressor (primarily for a Lapua) and it does a great job of suppressing with less than an inch change of impact from the unsuppressed barrels.  There is not a tremendous amount of load data out there, but if you get a Spectre, let me know and I'll give you what I have.

They seem to be the go-to for the SOCOM, wish they could do the Spectre too.

I've been there, but the Spectre sub forum is only 1 page. I was kinda getting the impression it's not very popular.

That's good to hear about brass life, maybe I won't have to worry about that aspect since I would only shoot subby's. Thanks for the load data offer.

Wasn't aware of two different Whispers. What do you prefer about the Spectre?

I have a 10" 338 spectre and it is one of my favorite uppers. I load a 200 gr sp at 1650 fps and a 300 gr bthp at 1050. Very accurate and brass is super easy to make.
You will need a 6.8 bolt and mag. SBR offers barrels and ammo.

Quote trees are a pain on a phone.....

The 338 Whisper #2 is based on reformed 221 brass, or cut down 223....the 338 Whisper is based off the BR case, as in 6BR, 7BR, etc....

In a small frame AR I prefer the Spectre over the 338 Whisper #2 because it has a little better super-sonic capabilities, has more shoulder, some guys use 6.8 brass instead of 10 mag....

If you're doing dedicated subs the #2 may work better for you...

Another option is a 338 based on either the x39 Russian or Grendel brass....

Just depends on what more base equipment you have that will make the move easier....5.56, 6.8, or G

I keep reading that actually getting an upper from SBR is "difficult". Has this changed?

Thx

I only have 5.56 right now and am really just interested in subs. As I understand it, a Whisper is only available from SSK. True?

Thanks for the breakdown.

They run way behind usually. Just have to be patient.

The deal with the Spectre is you must be prepared to wait.  If you are impatient, forgetaboutit.  You have to wait for the barrel unless SBR has some in stock, you have to wait for the dies to be made (CH-4D is the only source I know of and they were running 6 months on custom orders the last I heard), and you have to wait for the next run of 10mm MAGNUM brass to form.  Once you get all that then you realize that the wait was well worth it.  Stock up on brass when you can or you can buy it at a premium from SBR with correct headstamp.  Midway has it on sale right now too.  Or you can form it from 6.8 brass which is a lot of work (and I only recommend doing this if you are really impatient) and you have a grain less case capacity.  
Just this week I was working with 235 gr. LBTLFNGC cast bullets out of my 8.5 inch Spectre.  Using H110 in Spectre cases made from 6.8 brass, I was getting over 1300 fps, well over sub sonic and accuracy was quite good with some, not so much with others.  
That was with a max for my rifle load of H110 but the 6.8 brass I used to form this particular lot is thicker and uses LR rifle primers; I am pretty sure that by switching to 10mm mag brass and pistol primers I will not max out so quickly because QL shows max. at a about a grain higher charge, and that can only mean more velocity.

SBR might have some barrels in stock, just depends on what it is you are looking to get.  They cannot produce the "one offs" like I was able to and even for me it could take a month or 3 if I was out of blanks...

Load data - I am compiling from my load book right now and have been trying to get folks to post their loads

Whispers can only be had from SSK Industries

As to popularity, there is a surprising number of these uppers out there, but few of the shooters post their results - not sure why that is

Brass - SBR now has formed and headstamped brass and is selling it through Midway, which makes life a lot easier - plus they sell loaded ammo.

I'd be happy to answer any questions I can, might take me a little to get to Email, just depends on if I happen to have a good connection or a few idle moments.... the latter seem more rare these days

Big-Bore,
about your 8.5" barrel vs the 10 or 10.5" Spectre. Do you give up much velocity for that? Also, I read somewhere where I believe you posted it's hard to actually use the 300gr bullets in the Spectre due to them being deformed during seating or something. The 300's are one reason I'm looking at the Spectre or Whisper, and I hadn't heard that before. Is it a specific one, or most 300's?

Much appreciated.

Marty,

Though I really want to shoot subsonic only, a suppressor is likely a long way in the future. Since all the NFA stuff is not something I really want to deal with, I'm seriously considering making this a pistol build for the time being so as to legally have a short AR. Do most Spectre's function properly with subsonic ammo and a short barrel without needing a can on it?

Thank you.

Yes, that is correct.  When I seated the 300 gr. SMKs the noses were deformed, slightly mushroomed.  Even after having the seat stem bored deeper so the tips did not make contact with the seat stem there was still deformation but it was lower on the bullet and I do not have a picture of that.  Marty suggested I use a hand seating press and turn the cases upside down when seating the bullet to get the powder out of the way.  I am using the same bullets, same powder, and same dies as most everyone else shooting the heavies in the .338S so I cannot imagine that they did not experience bullet tip deformation also.  While seating the bullets with the rounds being held upside down would certainly work, and I do have a hand press, it is also way too much trouble for this old man.  For me the simple solution was to just down to the 250 gr. SMK and problem solved.  For me the .338S is a kicks and giggles rifle anyway.  The tip deformation was not sever, just more than I liked because I like pretty bullets.  The small amount of deformation did not affect feeding, accuracy, or anything else.  You can see from the picture below what I am talking about.  But it is something that might bug the bejesus out of some people, like me.


 As to how much velocity one gives up in barrel length I cannot say since the only .338S I have worked with is my 8.5 inch.  But I doubt you give up much.  With my 8.5 inch throwing those 235 gr. slugs at over 1300 fps over such a small powder charge, less than 13.5 gr. powder of H110, I cannot imagine I would gain much with a longer barrel, sort of like the .458 SOCOM.  

By the way, my 8.5 inch uses a handgun length gas system and has worked 100% with every load I have ever tried, and I too do not have a suppressor for it yet.

Thanks so much Big-Bore!

I solved the deformation problem on the 300g bullets (Sierra SMK) in a kludgy sort of way.  I use a separate seater stem.  I drilled out a seater stem from a 338 lapua die and then super glued a very small o-ring into the seater. During seating the tip of the bullet enters the o-ring and seems to protect the bullet.  (If you set the o-ring on a bullet, the tip protrudes just a hair –– it's that small.) It leaves only a faint impression on the case just below the tip, but no real deformation and absolutely no impact on accuracy.  I have loaded these 300 SMKs with between 12.0 and 14.2 g of RL7 in .3g increments.  Strangely enough, from 12.3 upward they all shoot to the exact same point of impact in the suppressed SBR.  Consequently, my zero load for that is 12.6 RL7.

You can also get dies from Hornady.

Yeah I just tripped over that info last night. Good to know.

Thanks

I really liked the idea and ballistics of the 338 subsonic rounds but the cost of projectiles is hard to swallow. 30 cal bullets are less money and are found in much greater variety.

I noticed OP mentioned that he wanted to use a 9mm can on it and I just wanted to make sure he realized you can also use it on the blackout/whisper 30 cal subsonic loads in most cases.

What flash hiders are available for the Spectre?

Survived yet another trip although my back tells me I am getting too old for this crap and the overnight flights truly suck... oh well

Flash hiders - most of the .30 cal version I came across would pass a .338 with no issue.  Plus any of the 9mm versions work as well.  So you can actually get a pretty good selection.  My personal .338 actually runs an OPS Inc FH and collar, with a custom 16th gen can.



During the coating process

That looks awesome and thanks for the info!