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Posted: 12/30/2007 3:52:49 AM EDT
[#1]
733's had A1C7 upper receivers. 11.5" gov't profile barrel(.750" from the FSB fwd), A2 flash hider, Carbine handguards
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Posted: 12/30/2007 6:27:01 AM EDT
[#2]
I have seen both A1/C7and A2 type uppers in use by certain organizations of the U.S. Army. I was issued a Model M733 with an A2 upper in the summer of 1993, before deployment to Somalia. However most of the M733 we received in that shippment had the A1/C7 type upper. The last few we received had the A2 sights. All had light weight 1/7 barrels.
Regards Joescuba |
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Posted: 12/30/2007 2:10:50 PM EDT
[#3]
The 733 is one of a number of "transitional" guns that had variable features depending on when it was produced. Note that both the 733 and 933 are still in Colt's catalog, and the current ones have the ribbed stock and I can't remember, but might even have the fat handguards.
Also -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_variants |
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Posted: 12/30/2007 7:07:35 PM EDT
[#4]
I would go with a C7 style upper. That is by far the most correct.
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Posted: 12/31/2007 10:35:03 AM EDT
[#5]
It would all depend on what era you wanted to make your 733 correct for. There is an early 733 in the Reed Knight collection that has an A1 upper receiver with a small round forward assist. It has the first gen plastic stock with the two reinforcing ribs. It has the standard CAR handguards and an A1 flash hider. Strangely enough, this particular model is shown to have a bayonet lug though it would be useless. It also has the A2 grip.
I tend to agree with Scott Ryan that the C7 upper would be more correct as the article on this collection clearly states that the 733 should have the shell deflector. The correct barrel contour should be of the lightweight variety with a 1/7 twist with an A2 compensator. I built mine using a standard A1 upper with a tear drop forward assist, 1/7 l/w barrel with no lug, and an A2 compensator.  
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Posted: 12/31/2007 1:20:24 PM EDT
[#6]
The JFK Special Warfare Museum at FT. Bragg had an interesting display once of the some of the actual equipment used in the BHD operation including a M733 with a XM 177 noise/flash suppressor on it. It also had an Aimpoint 3000 scope mounted on an ARMS STANAG mount. I've been thinking of making a replica of that weapon since i saw it. I have been picking up a few parts here and there and as soon as I complete my 723 clone this will be my next project. I still need to pick up a few items like a set of carbine handguards and a M3000 Aimpoint scope.
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Posted: 1/1/2008 3:35:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Hey JoeScuba,
Do you recall what Upper was on that "BHD 733" at the Museum? C7 or A2? I ask because if it was an A1 Upper, it may have actually been a XM177E2. If it was a C7 or A2 Upper that would be VERY unusual. I have seen XM177's where the Moderator was replaced with an A1 or A2 Flashhider, but I have never seen a newer weapon that had a Moderator fitted on it. Below is an example of a XM177E1 where the Moderator was replaced with a Flashhider (Army Special Forces in the 80's).  To be honest it would not surprise me if the Museum "goofed up", but you just never know. Thanks, "Capt Richardson" |
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Posted: 1/1/2008 4:09:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Below shows some of the 733 Variations:
 (*Note this is a real bastard configuration, some of the parts are real early like the buttstock, but it also has some late parts like the A2 Lower & Grip, this may be a parts gun, not a factory Colt configuration, but with Colt you just never know)    Good Luck! "Capt Richardson" |
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Posted: 1/1/2008 5:15:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Wow...I am surprised...I don't trust Wikipedia for anything, but that is an impressive amount of material... 
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Posted: 1/1/2008 6:33:53 PM EDT
[#10]
The first picture is a factory configuration. Some 723s were also made with the A2 grip and vynil coated stock with an A1 upper. |
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Posted: 1/1/2008 7:13:50 PM EDT
[#11]
I say you can trust it. Why? Because I put 99% of that material there ;) |
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Posted: 1/2/2008 12:40:29 PM EDT
[#12]
This could very well be likely since this is their Ivory Coast Display:  
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Posted: 1/2/2008 1:33:35 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought it was an early XM177E1 at first glance. The more I looked at it, I realized something looked out of place. When I asked about the weapon I was told it was not a XM series weapon, but a M16A2 SMG and that the flash/noise moderator had been added by the operator for the mission. The upper had M16A1 sights. The display was of a lefthanded shooter, so I couldn't tell if it was a C-7 upper. It had an early Aimpoint and was heavily painted with tan, gray, and black camoflage. Regards |
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Posted: 1/2/2008 4:00:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks Joe, I know at least some of, if not all of, the Delta Operators had the option to mount a Silencer on their 733's. That being the case it would surprise me to see one with a 4.5" Moderator, because that would prevent a silencer from being mounted. That being the case, you can find any configuration on a "Special Ops Weapon" so it would not surprise me. My buddies with the local USAF Spec Ops unit have a "Rack Config" and a "Deployment Config" for their weapons. In the "Rack Config" they are all identical factory spec, in the "Deployment Config" there is not a pair in the bunch built to the same spec. It drives the Unit Armorer crazy because he spends hours tearing them down and rebuilding, not to mention he has to try and keep up with all of the spare parts. The Armorer told me that some of the guys were still running the 4.5" Moderators up into the 90's, but they were all finally rounded up and disposed of in the late 90's. Thanks again to everyone for the input, "Capt Richardson" |
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Posted: 1/2/2008 4:10:58 PM EDT
[#15]
I thought that looked familiar Nice work...............thanks, TG |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 5:29:24 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 1/3/2008 12:03:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Great thread, been looking for things to do when my Form 1's get approved. That is, in addition to the obligatory Mekut'zrar and Mk18 Mod 0...
ETA: The 733 in the picture above is apparently based on an A2 lower, but with a C7 type upper. Does anyone know if those have 6-hole handguards? EETA: Anyone ever seen a carbine with a slickside upper, short barrel and no moderator? |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 2:37:48 PM EDT
[#18]
VAAR - Any idea what the real barrel length is on the Mekutzar carbines? 12" ? |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 2:46:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Mekutzar are upgraded 653 w/ M4-type barrels, so the barrel length is 14.5". The only source I have on the Mekutzrar (which is what I assume you were really talking about), isayeret.com, says the length is variable, but that the average was 9" (likely without muzzle device). I'm not sure if the information was updated on that site after they made it pay-to-play. |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 3:12:20 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm not a good source of information, but a lot of the pictures I'm seeing on the Internet are what looks like 10.5" which is why I'm interested in the SBR build. Here is a good one from www.gun-world.net:  ETA: This one (same source) is pretty good too: 
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Posted: 1/3/2008 3:29:16 PM EDT
[#21]
What flash hider is that? It looks long. |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 3:36:54 PM EDT
[#22]
The one in the first pic? I just could not figure it out. They wouldn't have Phantom 5C2's would they? That was my guess... |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 4:12:12 PM EDT
[#23]
That is what I thought it was too but was afraid to say. 
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Posted: 1/3/2008 4:19:03 PM EDT
[#24]
This is interesting. The M16A2 title and more are the A1 rear sight than the A2. Are these really considered A2s? |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 4:53:46 PM EDT
[#25]
I think Colt was trying to move old stock by calling them all "A2". |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 5:57:59 PM EDT
[#26]
I asked because I saw several pics in the IDF pic thread that looked like they were longer than 11.5" but shorter than 14.5", and I understand a lot were cut down - probably to get more life out of the barrel once the crown was worn? I've also seen some pics were their SF was using shorties like this, but with an XM177E1 moderator...makes me wonder if Colt's overstock in moderators went to Israel?
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Posted: 1/3/2008 7:21:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Lot of subtopics going on here:
IDF - they will cut or rebuild a 653 to just about any spec. You can find a 653 with a barrel that has been cut to 11.5" or 10", but nothing says only to those lengths. They may retain the original FH or something more up to date.     Slickside Upper with FH - USAF had plenty of these, when the ATF went after the Moderators in the 80's, the USAF just pulled them and replaced them with A1 or A2 Flashhiders.     A1 or A2 - the 700 Series was very "transitional", and Colt had no problem mixing a large variety of A1 and A2 components on the various models. There seemed to be no rhyme or reason as to what made something an "A2" other than Colt calling it an "A2". Plenty of the 733 pics posted show the variations well. "Capt Richardson" |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 7:38:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Kind of makes one wonder, does the US Military give a rats a$$ what the BATF doesn't like? Or did the military just happen to phase the moderators out during the same time period? Just wondering out loud (sort of). Doc |
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Posted: 1/3/2008 9:24:48 PM EDT
[#29]
IIRC, the military got rid of the moderators so that they could use regular flash hiders and standard issue BFA's.
HTH, ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/4/2008 4:35:05 AM EDT
[#30]
There was also a problem with copper barrel fouling with the moderators from what I remember. With Faux moderators it shouldn't be a problem.
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Posted: 1/4/2008 4:42:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Thanks for the pics. The one with the Trijicon Reflex looks pretty cool. I also like the one with the lady in it. Her carbine ain't bad either.
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Posted: 1/4/2008 4:47:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Maybe I should have phrased that a little differently,
I seriously doubt that the ATF Ruling on the 4.5" Moderators making them a Silencer that required registration was "THE" deciding factor to pull them and replace them with a Flashhider. I say that because: 1. There were USAF Carbines that still had 4.5" Moderators on them up until the Mid 90's well past the time that ATF had started regulating them. 2. I think the overriding factor was more due to the utility factors as Augee and Morg pointed out. (couldn't us a blank adapter, excessive fouling especially carbon in the Moderator) What I found real interesting about the situation, was that some of the Colt 610 / GAU-5/A models had the Moderator replaced with a Flashhider, and I don't see how they could have functioned with any level of reliability? Unless the local armorer worked some magic with the gas port and other components, there is no way there could have been enough pressure retained on the system to run it reliably in full auto, and I would almost bet some of them would have had to short stroke/fail to feed. I have never had the chance to talk to any USAF vets about that, but I would like to find out what was going on with them. "Capt Richardson" |
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Posted: 1/4/2008 4:56:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Yes they will. I did a search for pictures, and found one on another forum of a line of IDF soldiers with a mix of 14.5" and what looked to be 13" guns. 
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Posted: 1/4/2008 7:37:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Look at the color difference between the upper and lower. Great pic. |
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Posted: 1/4/2008 10:45:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Why would they chop off just an inch or inch and a half? Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Looking at those pics i can help but think Israel needs to start replacing them with Tavors and exporting those uppers to the States now. 
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Posted: 1/4/2008 10:47:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Heh, the chances of that are slim so long as IMI refrains from building a US production facility. One can always hope though heh. |
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Posted: 1/4/2008 8:02:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Thanks to all you guys for the awesome pictures and information.
I am getting my build together right now. Please feel free to critique the plan, but here it is: NDS-A2 receiver. I like this because it doesn't have a rollmark, and is only fire/safe marked on 1 side. 11.5" lightweight chrome lined kit from J&T distributing. A1 FS, A1/C7 upper. A2 round FA 4 position Colt ribbed(old style) stock. A2 aperature and 1/9 twist barrel are the only things that should not be correct. I am figuring I will have about $455 in the upper and LPK, with about $145 in the Lower and the Colt stock was a gift  So I figure about $800 after the tax is paid to the ATF for the gun. |
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Posted: 1/5/2008 7:34:26 PM EDT
[#38]
My factory Colt 733 Commando upper receiver uses the "C7" upper with M4 ramps, 11.5", 1/7 pencil barrel without bayo lug.
It has the older, 6 hole thinner CAR handguards.. I bought it about 7-8 years ago from Dennis Todd... |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 6:25:28 AM EDT
[#39]
That info is a copy and paste of BiggerHammer.net. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 6:55:44 AM EDT
[#40]
The military has no reason at all to care what ATF regs are. DOD regs are all the military cares about. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:04:43 AM EDT
[#41]
Good!!! I saved everything there I could find!!!  I say I don't trust Wikipedia because there have been numerous reports of "outsiders" changing Wiki page contents; "hacking" them, so to speak...mainly Microsoft, the US Gov't, and even the Vatican, because they thought the contents put their organizations in an unfavorable light... You might want to keep on eye on your material there...there are progs which monitor Web pages for changes and notify the user...Might be a good idea to get one and install it... It's a sad world where the Vatican hacks your web page... 
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:26:42 AM EDT
[#42]
I think I recall these being referred to on Isayeret (before it became a pay site) as being 13" barrels. They could call they mekutzar, but I don't think they literally meant cut down, but rather just shorty, as all of the 13"ish examples I have seen in IDF pics have had the step-up right behind the flash hider. It doesn't appear that there was a tapered nut installed behind the hider, but rather that the step-up was part of the barrel like any standard lightweight barrel. I would love to have a 13" production lightweight barrel. On the 733 bit, I have been wanting to do a model 723 build, but I'm not sure if my 4 position type 3 stock would be accurate, as many of the examples I have seen appear to use the older 2-position tubes, even with the type 3 stock. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 9:12:19 AM EDT
[#43]
I recall reading that the 13" barrels were actually nothing more than cut down M16A1 20" barrels, and that the 13" length was more or less due to them cutting it right behind the gas port on the barrel.
May be wrong, going on imperfect memory, but the photos I've seen don't seem to have the barrel flare that factory lightweights have, just a crush washer. ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 9:43:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Oh, great, that means I'll have to get a barrel cut down for my clone instead of using a stock barrel. Or maybe I'll just say screw it and use a common 11.5" barrel. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 9:56:57 AM EDT
[#45]
I would say the only things that were constant on a 723 would be A1 sights, a 14.5" 1/7 barrel, and an A2 pistol grip. Anything else would probably go, probably even had some with A1 FH's, not A2's. Otherwise, they could come with A1 uppers or C7 uppers, fiberlite or aluminium stock, who knows if some had two or four position stocks, lightweight or step cut barrels, ect. ~Augee |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 2:18:56 PM EDT
[#46]
I recall that as well not that you mention it, but I wonder how one would account for the necessary .625 for mounting the FSB, as the barrel fore and aft the FSB area are thinner. I suppose a liner could have been used between the barrel and FSB. I've inquired about this on a couple of sites in the past IIRC, and have never been able to get an answer from any IDF troopers that knew the story behind the 13" guns. |
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Posted: 1/20/2008 10:18:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Keeping this alive while I work on my 733 clone.
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Posted: 1/20/2008 1:14:18 PM EDT
[#48]
I would really like you to go and show how my work which I've collected from various sources including BiggerHammer.net over the last six years is a copy and paste of information on that site which hasn't been updated since 1999. 
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