M18 Smoke Grenades - Page 1

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Posted: 4/29/2010 12:27:57 PM EST

Anyone have a good source for a couple of these? I found some at Old Sarge's but they do not have any stenciling - in fact that seems to be the norm with the surplus retailers - maybe they have to remove it??

Follow up question - if I got the Old Sarge m18s - is there a source for the stencils the military used to use? Anyone ever create said stencils?

ETA - were the m83s about the same thing - used in nam?

Thanks!

Posted: 4/29/2010 12:55:45 PM EST

[#1]

You can find lots of sources for military type stencils.
Do a Google search on "mssc stencil machine" and you should find a few sources.

Posted: 4/29/2010 1:04:39 PM EST

[#2]

Thanks Tex - jeez those machines are a couple thousand dollars.

May have to print up what I need in Word and exacto it out.

I know some of you have these Nam staples - come on ... give up the source.

Posted: 4/29/2010 1:55:16 PM EST

[#3]

http://www.vietnamairsoft.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=556&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

A guy (about part of the way down in the link) has a post on an airsoft forum about marking M18 smokers. Not sure how he made the stencils but tells what style of font and letter size he used to replicate the markings.

ETA: If your smoke grenades are used the markings probably burned off. They get pretty darn hot.

Had to look up an M83. They are the same size as M18 smoke grenades. I don't recall ever seeing any.

If you are trying to replicate a vintage smoke grenade, be aware the new cannisters are not made the same as the old ones. The old smoke grenades looked very similar to a typical can from the super market with a top and bottom crimped onto a cylindrical body (Like the smoke in the pic you posted). The newer ones are made from two pieces of metal, the cylindrcal body and bottom are one piece drawn out when stamped, and the top is shaped very differently. I only mention this because we are in the retro forum.

Posted: 4/29/2010 2:02:22 PM EST

[#4]

I know there were places that would make cardboard stencils.
I contemplated getting some for M67 replica grenades before I decided they wouldn't work.
My replica grenade markings are actually rolled on instead of sprayed on.

Posted: 4/29/2010 2:10:41 PM EST

[#5]

Those aren't stencils; they're either rolled on or silk screened. I made thousands of stencils when I was a munitions troop in the Air Force; stencils leave blank spaces in the letters where the inner part (as in the "hole" in the eight) is connected to the outer part. You may be able to go to a sign shop and have them cut the markings out of vinyl, then stick the vinyl on the grenade and pick out the markings, spray, and then remove the vinyl.

VaderSpade mentions this procedure in one of his posts on electro etching lowers.

Posted: 4/29/2010 2:18:22 PM EST

[#6]

I ordered a few from Old Sarge and will see what I can do with them as far as lettering.

44Echo10 - thanks - I saw that thread, too. That guy actually did a good job recreating some realistic looking m18s - I will definitely use that info for my lettering.

TexSquirrel - airforcemajor - thanks - will look into the rolled stenciling - or check a sign shop here if I can't get the hand made letting to look decent.

Thanks!

Posted: 4/29/2010 6:10:20 PM EST

[#7]

This thread is relevant to my interests.

Where's the LOLcat photo when you need it?

Posted: 4/29/2010 6:20:17 PM EST

[#8]

will a bunny do?

Posted: 4/29/2010 11:52:28 PM EST

[#9]

I did find these:

Smoke Grenades, Vietnam Dummy Reproductions
Click on "Smoke Grenades Vietnam" in the menu

Kind of pricey but look close.

Posted: 4/30/2010 12:39:36 PM EST

[#10]

You want live ones??

http://www.smokegrenade.net/Product/m-18militarysmokegrenade.htm

or used

http://www.imsplus.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=30181

Posted: 4/30/2010 12:49:16 PM EST

[#11]

I saw those on imsplus - but those m83s and AFAICT are not period correct for Nam. Too bad as they look pretty good and have the stenciling.

There is a NIB real m18 on GB right now for $80.

Posted: 4/30/2010 6:33:07 PM EST

[#12]

I'd like a few real M67's or M61's to be really retro...

Posted: 4/30/2010 8:22:05 PM EST

[#13]

Ahhhh violet. I tossed one of them bad boys out the window of my Bronco as my new bride and I were leaving our wedding reception. They'll sure make a crowd scatter. Lotta smoke, lotta smoke. Her wedding color was muave but I figured violet was close enough.

Posted: 5/1/2010 6:02:07 AM EST

[#14]

Quoted:
I'd like a few real M67's or M61's to be really retro...

I was offered an M67 once.
But the cost was too great!

Posted: 5/2/2010 9:08:07 AM EST

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd like a few real M67's or M61's to be really retro...

I was offered an M67 once.
But the cost was too great!

Hell, the real period M67 are probably over here in Afghanistan with us! The last batch I was issued was dated 69 or 70.

Posted: 5/2/2010 12:13:46 PM EST

[#16]

I kinda "stenciled" mine in reverse...I was wondering how to mark one, and tried the stencil route, but it looked all wrong. I thought, "Why don't they make those 1/2 vinyl stick-on letters in gray?.....

Hey.....I'm on to something here......

I re-painted the can with light gray spray, then measured out the spacings for the various words, GENTLY applied my 1/2" vinyl stick-on letters, and added a "band" going around near the bottom. I sprayed this with a WW2 shade of OD, GENTLY removed the band and stick-on letters, and it turned out so nice I ended up doing another one!
I'll have to see if I can dig them out and get pics.
Ah, neccesity IS the Mutha of all invention!

Posted: 5/2/2010 12:34:31 PM EST

[#17]

Sounds interesting, and easier - would like to see the pics when you find them.

Posted: 5/2/2010 3:52:35 PM EST

[#18]

I have two original "U.S. Property" marked stencil machines i used to mark military aircraft i had restored. These were for .500 and .750 letters but if this will work i will be glad to make all the mil. spec. stencils you need. These are the real thing for aircraft but i'm not sure if this is correct for smokes.

Posted: 5/2/2010 10:28:41 PM EST

[#19]

Quoted:
I have two original "U.S. Property" marked stencil machines i used to mark military aircraft i had restored. These were for .500 and .750 letters but if this will work i will be glad to make all the mil. spec. stencils you need. These are the real thing for aircraft but i'm not sure if this is correct for smokes.

I'm not sure if the stencils would be correct either. Can you tell by the pic in the first post? Any help with the stencils would be much appreciated.

Posted: 5/5/2010 11:17:30 AM EST

[#20]

Got the M18s from Old Sarge today - they are in great shape! Really nice, no rust or corrosion. They just need some paint on the top (smoke color) and the stenciling. Pics below. Got to get to work on a stenciling solution.

OLD SARGE'S

REFERENCE

Posted: 5/5/2010 5:50:43 PM EST

[#21]

I have a fully functional red smoke grenade if you need measurements or detailed information on how they are marked. When I was in the National Guard red smoke was only issued to medics in case we needed to call in a medevac chopper. Smoke might be in use by other units as a training tool but, the chopper pilots knew that the only color they needed to look for was red.

Doc

Posted: 5/5/2010 6:50:31 PM EST

[#22]

Quoted:
Got the M18s from Old Sarge today - they are in great shape! Really nice, no rust or corrosion. They just need some paint on the top (smoke color) and the stenciling. Pics below. Got to get to work on a stenciling solution.

OLD SARGE'S
http://www.dreamscraps.com/misc/m18-1.jpg
http://www.dreamscraps.com/misc/m18-2.jpg

REFERENCE
http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/M18od.JPG

The ones from Old Sarge's look like the later style most common to M83s. You can tell the difference between M83s and the earlier style of chemical grenade cans (used on everything from the M18 smoke grenade to the M14 incendiary) by the top. The M83s have a wide portion on top, whereas the earlier style only had the fuze well. There were also ports on top for the filler to burn out of on the earlier types. I think this different top style might have been adopted for all the chemical grenade types that were still in service (I believe the M14 is still in service for instance for instance), but I'm not at all sure.

Posted: 5/6/2010 12:01:14 AM EST

[#23]

Thatguy96 - you appear to be right on with that - the top section is more in line with the M83s. Hmmm. Interesting ... will have to drop Old Sarge a note about that.

These will be fine for me right now - I'm not doing any serious reenacting or I would be a bit sore about the misrepresentation.

Posted: 5/6/2010 3:23:20 AM EST

[#24]

The new style canister is correct for current M18s. This one is live.

Did "Old Sarge" claim to have the old style?

Posted: 5/6/2010 4:00:32 AM EST

[#25]

No- they don't go into detail on them in the description. Probably didn't see a need to.

Posted: 5/6/2010 4:06:58 AM EST

[#26]

These must be scavenged from training areas, so he's getting current issue canisters.

After the burn, the paint on the body is scorched and it will rust quickly laying out in the open. "Sarge" is applying green paint to cover it, so the original markings are lost.

Posted: 5/6/2010 5:38:40 AM EST

[#27]

Sounds right to me. They will suit my purposes if I can get some decent markings on them.

Posted: 5/6/2010 5:47:38 AM EST

[#28]

Yeah, they'll be fine. Good price on them.

The screened on letters aren't the typical "military" font. Not sure where you can find it. May be better to make a stencil by hand from a photo.

Posted: 5/6/2010 10:11:21 AM EST

[#29]

Could I impose on someone who has one of these M18 to pass on some measurements for me? I need the letter height for all letter/numbers - upper and lower, the white band height and the distances between the letters, band and top/bottom of the canister. If someone could do that I would appreciate it and if I can get a decent stencil I will share.

Thanks!

ETA: Crude Example of dimensions needed.

Posted: 5/6/2010 6:30:59 PM EST

[#30]

I'm also interested in the measurments!

Posted: 5/6/2010 7:48:21 PM EST

[#31]

"Purple haze - all in my brain..."

Posted: 6/4/2010 9:33:22 AM EST

[#32]

Posted: 6/4/2010 10:57:41 AM EST

[#33]

Here's one I've had for a long time.

Rob

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:25:05 PM EST

[#34]

Anybody here want a real yellow M18?

Posted: 6/9/2010 7:46:34 PM EST

[#35]

Anybody here want a real yellow M18?

Yeah sure. Need my address??

I hope to pick one up one day - with the stenciling in place.

Posted: 6/11/2010 4:34:06 AM EST

[#36]

Found this pic on warboats - apparently the M18s are still in use today (pic is of soldier in Iraq)?

Posted: 6/11/2010 4:39:34 AM EST

[#37]

That's an "old" picture from Iraq.
At least 4 or 5 years old I think.

Posted: 6/11/2010 5:04:00 AM EST

[#38]

Ah - I was under the [possibly false] impression that the M18s were discontinued sometime after VN - and replaced by the M83s

Posted: 6/11/2010 5:15:18 AM EST

[#39]

Quoted:
Ah - I was under the [possibly false] impression that the M18s were discontinued sometime after VN - and replaced by the M83s

I believe the M83 was only intended as a replacement for the AN/M8 white smoke grenade. I think the toxic properties of the HC smoke mixture was part of this. The M18 doesn't come in white. The M83 also appears to have been primarily intended for use as a training aid. Two mixtures were tested, neither of which I know the exact composition of. The one in the M83 is referred to as TA, while I don't know the code for the one in the XM82.

EDIT- Correction, the M82 is a 66mm vehicle launched training smoke grenade. It and the M83 are unrelated.

Posted: 6/11/2010 5:18:20 AM EST

[#40]

Good info - man this government issue stuff is hard to keep up with!

Posted: 6/11/2010 1:08:48 PM EST

[#41]

Quoted:
Found this pic on warboats - apparently the M18s are still in use today (pic is of soldier in Iraq)?

http://www.dreamscraps.com/misc/car15018.jpg

Here is me in Iraq, probably early 2005:

Hard to see, but it says M18 just above the tape:

Posted: 6/11/2010 2:36:32 PM EST

[#42]

Quoted:
Ah - I was under the [possibly false] impression that the M18s were discontinued sometime after VN - and replaced by the M83s

M18s are for signaling and come in red, yellow, green and violet.
M83s are for concealment and only come in white.
Newest ones I have seen were dated 2009.

Many if not all are made at the Pine Bluff arsenal in Arkansas.

A few neat reads if you are into them
link

link2

Posted: 6/11/2010 2:46:01 PM EST

[#43]

Thanks Elliot that's article is great!

Posted: 6/21/2010 1:59:46 PM EST

[#44]

HOPEFULLY my pic will post....I'm still kinda new at posting pics.....

This pic shows two of my "reverse stenciled" M-18s, and an obviously fake (Note the hole in the bottom

) M-26 that I made a roll-print block to mark.
I paint the cans a light gray (I put them on a surface upside-down just to preserve the original identification paint color on the top), then put my vynil stick-on letters and numbers on, along with a band near the bottom (I did'nt bother trying to do lot numbers), then hit with the WW2-shade OD. When they dry, just remove the letters (Put them back on the sheet you took them off for re-use. They still have PLENTY of sticky left for multiple uses!) Put the heads back on and they're done.

Also....Fired heads will generally have a blue magic marker swipe on them to show that the strikers were removed-The mark can be removed by gently scrubbing it dry with a brass brush, leaving most of the original finish behind.

Posted: 6/21/2010 2:04:02 PM EST

[#45]

I wonder if the M26 is in fact an M30 or M62 training grenade that's been repainted. The M30 at least did have a large hole in the bottom for the spotting charge. Nice gear regardless.

Posted: 6/21/2010 7:30:47 PM EST

[#46]

gb15 - looks good! I'm working with some stamps but rolling them on has been a challenge. I'm a little burned out on trying at the moment.

I may try your method next.

What are these roll-print blocks you mentioned?

Posted: 6/22/2010 5:46:02 AM EST

[#47]

Quoted:

This pic shows two of my "reverse stenciled" M-18s, and an obviously fake (Note the hole in the bottom

) M-26 that I made a roll-print block to mark.

That's easy to fix with JB Weld. Just fill in the hole, let dry and paint.

Posted: 6/22/2010 6:18:06 AM EST

[#48]

The "M26" looks like the cheap chinese knockoffs found at most army surplus stores.
The fuses and spoons are real, but the bodies are not.
The M-67's I've painted and stenciled are chinese too.

My replica M213 fuse stamping dates the fuse manufacture in May of 1967.

BTW, JB Weld works great.
Plug up the grenade with sheet foam and then put the JB Weld in the hole.
It takes a bunch of grinding/sanding and you'll encounter air pockets so be prepared to touch it up with more JB Weld.

Posted: 6/22/2010 6:30:58 AM EST

[#49]

Quoted:
gb15 - looks good! I'm working with some stamps but rolling them on has been a challenge. I'm a little burned out on trying at the moment.

I may try your method next.

What are these roll-print blocks you mentioned?

Thanks! The "roll print block" uses, again, vinyl lettering. I use 1/4" tall letters for the M-26 but it's more complicated than the M-18. I use three of each letter, one on top of the other, and arange them so the wording is reversed, as are the letters, on a curved plastic surface (Like the inside of a one-liter pop bottle) and glued in place with contact cement.
When dry, just spray on LIGHTLY or brush on LIGHTLY your yellow paint, press it aroundr the body, and it comes out looking like a .gov marking job....

Greg.
(P.S.- My Gun Things kit should be here today!

)