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Posted: 3/29/2019 12:43:37 PM EDT
Looks like WW is getting into the retro game. Just received an email from Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore promoting Windham's new "A1 Gov" retro style rifle. Seems like it's just their A4 with a C7 upper and A1 handguards + grip. "A new take on a classic build", so they say. Wish they could pair it with an A1 profile barrel and A1 length stock though.
https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/216843?utm_source=032919&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=032919 |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 1:07:05 PM EDT
[#1]
I'll own one if prices keep coming down.
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Posted: 3/29/2019 1:14:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Glad to see more entering the area but I agree with the above. Should have done an a1 profile on the barrel(having the 1/7 twist or maybe a 1/8 is going to be better for most than 1/12) and a a1 stock.
I'd personally rather have the older profile on the lower receiver but I can see not doing that. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 1:21:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Their xm177 style carbine is more accurate IIRC
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Posted: 3/29/2019 1:30:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glad to see more entering the area but I agree with the above. Should have done an a1 profile on the barrel(having the 1/7 twist or maybe a 1/8 is going to be better for most than 1/12) and a a1 stock. I'd personally rather have the older profile on the lower receiver but I can see not doing that. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 3:44:54 PM EDT
[#5]
I would buy it.
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Posted: 3/29/2019 3:54:28 PM EDT
[#6]
What makes the A2 lower stronger than the A1?
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Posted: 3/29/2019 4:06:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes the A2 lower stronger than the A1? |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 5:54:59 PM EDT
[#8]
But why they gotta call it an A1? It's got the worst attributes of the A2 (minus the grip ski-jump)... Needlessly heavy barrel and looks like a too long A2 stock. Come to think of it, kind of seems like the worst of both worlds, an A2 with brittle handguards, a slip ring, and non-adjusto sights. Why is this a thing?
They could have used an A1 length stock, A2 handguards, and a pencil barrel, for greater utility. Just seems like another gimmick for the unknowing. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 6:06:53 PM EDT
[#9]
For folks that want that "kinda, sorta" retro look. For something much closer to A1 configuration you would be better served with the Brownell's Retro model.
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Posted: 3/29/2019 9:14:06 PM EDT
[#10]
So it’s an a A2/C7 with A1 handguards and grip
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Posted: 3/29/2019 9:43:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Don't forget the slip ring. Slip being the operative word.
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Posted: 3/29/2019 9:51:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But why they gotta call it an A1? It's got the worst attributes of the A2 (minus the grip ski-jump)... Needlessly heavy barrel and looks like a too long A2 stock. Come to think of it, kind of seems like the worst of both worlds, an A2 with brittle handguards, a slip ring, and non-adjusto sights. Why is this a thing? They could have used an A1 length stock, A2 handguards, and a pencil barrel, for greater utility. Just seems like another gimmick for the unknowing. |
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Posted: 3/29/2019 10:02:33 PM EDT
[#13]
This reminds me of my neighbor who builds but not Retro versed at all. Came over with a A2 rifle with triangle handguards and said " Hey I built one just like your "old ones". Probably shouldn't have pointed out the flaws in the "Retro" build.....but I did.
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Posted: 3/29/2019 11:33:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Either clone the damn thing or don't even bother.
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Posted: 3/30/2019 12:21:44 AM EDT
[#15]
I love most all things from ww
but this is not what I want |
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Posted: 3/30/2019 12:46:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it’s an a A2/C7 with A1 handguards and grip Seriously. This is for the I'd kinda like to have a retroish rifle in my collection crowd who don't know any better. Great way to move a bunch of A2 buttstocks they probably have been sitting on. I wouldn't doubt it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2019 8:08:30 AM EDT
[#17]
I would engrave a big maple leaf on it, change the grip and handguards to A2 and call it a C7.
  Then I would make Canadian clone carbines too. |
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Posted: 3/31/2019 9:03:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Their A4 version for $649 is the way to go. I have been tempted many times by it.
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Posted: 4/9/2019 2:45:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would engrave a big maple leaf on it, change the grip and handguards to A2 and call it a C7. http://www.military-today.com/firearms/c7.jpg Then I would make Canadian clone carbines too. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 5:43:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would engrave a big maple leaf on it, change the grip and handguards to A2 and call it a C7. http://www.military-today.com/firearms/c7.jpg Then I would make Canadian clone carbines too. Thank you for the response on our first A1 offering. I’m from the original Bushmaster employee group and wanted to test the market on a Windham Weaponry version of a Bushmaster style A1 that sold quite well back in the day. We intend to offer more A1 versions and more period correct models, but I wanted to see how the market response was before we invested the time and money. We had a commitment on the first A1 run from a distributor on this model and it proved the A1’s are still popular. I appreciate your comments and will keep these in mind on future A1 offerings. Thank you! Mark L. Eliason VP of Sales & Marketing Office: 207-893-2223 I did e-mail him back. I await his reply, if any. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 11:02:50 PM EDT
[#21]
They could do a lot better if they just sold complete uppers, if they want to skip A1 lowers.
Sell A1 uppers, C7s, etc. Instead, it's a frankengun right from the start. |
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Posted: 4/9/2019 11:38:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either clone the damn thing or don't even bother. My important parts list would be the shorter A1 stock, non-A2 upper (not particular about C7/A1/e1/whatever, though no deflector would be nice) triangle handguards and a 1/7 to 1/9 pencil barrel. |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 10:53:56 AM EDT
[#23]
The A1 1/2, C7 upper receiver works for me. Left hander, with Basic ptsd from ole' faithful (hydramatic m16A1) dumping hot brass at my neck and down the BDUs
 The A2 lower and BBL profile are the real fail inducer for me.
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Posted: 4/10/2019 6:22:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it’s an a A2/C7 with A1 handguards and grip |
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Posted: 4/10/2019 11:58:28 PM EDT
[#25]
I get trying to test the retro waters with a new “clone” but building a rifle nobody asked for and using it to test the retro market is kind of an unfair statement.
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Posted: 4/11/2019 1:13:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah, I can kind of tell them how that water will be and it will probably kill any other ideas of “retro” builds for them
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Posted: 4/11/2019 2:59:03 PM EDT
[#27]
My take on the retro market is that there are 3 kinds of customers:
1. Purists. really only want to build with original surplus and a repro or reweld or 80% lower. 2. Hobbyist. Will use whatever "correct" style parts are available, new or surplus. 3. Casual. Just wants a lightweight retro style, 100% correct components or exact copies are not needed. There are numerous KISS/retro-ish models that can be made with off the shelf components that would enable companies to successfully sell to customer #3.  
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Posted: 4/11/2019 3:33:39 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm a number 2.
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Posted: 4/11/2019 4:45:36 PM EDT
[#29]
It's too exhausting to try and have everything correct all the time.
When it comes to my personal firearms I'm a hobbyist also. Some days I'd say I'm even a 2.5. Because I like to mix and match the best elements of retro and modern. |
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Posted: 4/11/2019 6:10:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's too exhausting to try and have everything correct all the time. When it comes to my personal firearms I'm a hobbyist also. Some days I'd say I'm even a 2.5. Because I like to mix and match the best elements of retro and modern. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 1:29:18 PM EDT
[#31]
For some reason, the look of this thing is kind of growing on me. I may end up getting one, probably for the same reason I dated women that were bad for me.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 5:36:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would engrave a big maple leaf on it, change the grip and handguards to A2 and call it a C7. http://www.military-today.com/firearms/c7.jpg Then I would make Canadian clone carbines too. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 5:43:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Their barrels (old Bushy, new Windham) are really good.
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Posted: 4/12/2019 6:00:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Their barrels (old Bushy, new Windham) are really good. |
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Posted: 4/12/2019 8:01:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would say that I am mostly a hobbyist, but have some purist in me too. To me, if you are going to build a retro type of AR, you need to have the primary details correct, otherwise, you are just building a retro-inspired AR. Windham's is a retro-inspired build at best. Not much of anything is correct for an A1 other than the handguards, pistol grip, and flat slip ring. |
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Posted: 4/13/2019 1:06:45 PM EDT
[#36]
I believe Windham's front sight post is the square A2 type. Would replacing it with an A1 post be worth anything?
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Posted: 4/13/2019 6:33:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe Windham's front sight post is the square A2 type. Would replacing it with an A1 post be worth anything? Unless the rest is correct (barrel profile, upper/lowerprofile, etc) the front sight being a certain way isn't worth anything. Now if Brownells sold an A1 profile front sight that could be adjusted with the standard a2 tool, that would be perfect I think. |
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Posted: 4/13/2019 9:32:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Why not spend a little bit more $$$ and get a real Colt Sporter or SP1?
You buy that Windham for ~$850, take it to the range once and you'd be lucky to resell it for $600. Buy the Colt for ~$1200, have an original/correct gun, take it to the range a bunch of times and it still worth $1200 and will appreciate in value as time goes on. |
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Posted: 4/14/2019 5:20:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not spend a little bit more $$$ and get a real Colt Sporter or SP1? You buy that Windham for ~$850, take it to the range once and you'd be lucky to resell it for $600. Buy the Colt for ~$1200, have an original/correct gun, take it to the range a bunch of times and it still worth $1200 and will appreciate in value as time goes on. |
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Posted: 4/14/2019 10:36:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not everybody buys stuff to sell, and $400 saved can buy a lot of ammo. |
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Posted: 4/16/2019 7:38:50 AM EDT
[#41]
Meh, looks like an A2 with A1 HG to me. Do not want.
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Posted: 4/16/2019 1:36:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not spend a little bit more $$$ and get a real Colt Sporter or SP1? You buy that Windham for ~$850, take it to the range once and you'd be lucky to resell it for $600. Buy the Colt for ~$1200, have an original/correct gun, take it to the range a bunch of times and it still worth $1200 and will appreciate in value as time goes on. |
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Posted: 4/16/2019 2:21:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SP1s selling for under $1300 are not exactly easy to come by these days. Looks like the average selling price is in the mid thousand range lately. Point is still well taken but the price difference is more than you make it seem for those where almost twice the price will make a difference. |
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Posted: 4/16/2019 11:46:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 1977 was $1,000 Do you think that is a typical deal available for that gun, or a very rare / fortunate one? There are always outliers of people stumbling across killer deals. Check out the "The Gun Gods have been good to me" thread on this very forum. |
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Posted: 4/17/2019 4:43:58 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When / where did you find it for that price. Do you think that is a typical deal available for that gun, or a very rare / fortunate one? There are always outliers of people stumbling across killer deals. Check out the "The Gun Gods have been good to me" thread on this very forum. |
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Posted: 4/19/2019 8:51:23 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When / where did you find it for that price. Do you think that is a typical deal available for that gun, or a very rare / fortunate one? There are always outliers of people stumbling across killer deals. Check out the "The Gun Gods have been good to me" thread on this very forum. |
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Posted: 4/19/2019 9:17:50 PM EDT
[#47]
This came in to my FFL today. Windham sure makes a pretty AR:
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Posted: 4/19/2019 9:22:51 PM EDT
[#48]
Cool, but Kinda of a weird combo to market as Retro, I think a straight m16a2 would have been better since the only a1 part is the hand guards.
Also on the levels cloning, I'm in the Hobbyist/casual segment, my colt 733 is going to pretty close functionally correct but the only colt part will probably be the hand guards. At the same time I have heard of guys who call anybody who does not use correctly marked full auto lowers as casuals. |
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