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Page AR-15 » AR Piston Systems
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 11/29/2009 4:02:03 PM EDT


I recently took delivery of a new Spike's Tactical piston AR upper.  This my first piston gun, and I thought I would write a quick review with my initial impressions.

Appearance/Fit & Finish/Build Quality

* The upper receiver itself is of the forged variety and appears to be of good quality, with no apparent machining marks or defects.  The upper features M4 feed ramps.  The top tail has white T marks and features the Spike's spider logo at the rear of the top rail. The hole in the receiver which the piston passes through is machined specifically for the Adams Arms piston system, so no additional bushing is needed.

* The 16", 1:8" twist match grade stainless steel barrel is finished in a matte black melonite finish and it is gorgeous.  From what I understand, melonite is an extremely durable finish, so the good looks are an added bonus.  

*The upper features a 9" Daniel Defense lite rail, and the quality is evident.  The lockup with the upper is solid, and the rails are well within spec and not overly sharp.  This particular rail also features a continuous upper rail.

* The BCG is excellent.  It is a one piece design, with the striking surface for the piston machined as an integral part of the carrier.  The carrier also features a slightly oversized rear portion to aid in preventing carrier tilt.  The bolt carrier is finished with the same melonite finish as the barrel.  The bolt is MPI tested and included a D fender ring installed on the extractor spring.

* The upper included a billet charging handle with appears to be of excellent quality.

* The heart and soul of the upper, the piston system, appears to be well thought out, and more importantly, very well made.  The gas block, gas plug, and drive rod are all constructed of stainless steel and melonite coated.  The gas block features three gas settings.  Setting 1 is "full gas", for use in normal shooting situations.  Setting 2 is for use with a suppressor.  Setting 3 is "no gas", which effectively makes the rifle a single shot or straight pull bolt action AR.  Disassembly of the piston system is easy, as is reassembly.

Ergonomics

Ergonomics are of course, a matter of personal preference.  The upper ships from Spike's with an A2 flash hider installed.  In this configuration, I felt that the upper balanced very well on my lower, which has a Vltor EMOD stock installed.  However, I replaced the A2 FH with an SJC Titan muzzle brake.  With this brake installed, I find the gun to be a bit "front heavy".  The piston system does add some additional weight to the front of the gun, so the addition of the brake "puts it over the edge" a bit.  I don't find this to be a deal breaker, though.  It's not as if there is a brick hanging from the barrel, the gun is just a little bit front heavy.  This could be balanced by using a heavier stock such as a UBR or PRS, which I may do in the future.

Again this is personal preference, but a 9" handguard is just barely long enough for me and the way in which I hold the rifle.  I don't use a VFG.  I put my hand all the way at the end of the rail/handguard with my thumb in line with the bore.  I prefer a longer handguard like a 12" for this shooting style, but I have no problem maintaining a solid stance/grip with the 9".  I am researching whether or not the Daniel Defense 12.0" FSP lite rail will work with this upper.  

Accuracy

I fired the upper with both an Aimpoint ML2 and a Bushnell 10X scope.  

The ML2 was used out to 50 yards and with hand loads loaded with 55gr Hornady FMJ bullets, all the bullet holes were touching one another at this distance.  

I shot out to 100 yards with the 10X scope installed.  For this testing, I again used handloads, this time with 69gr Sierra Matchking bullets.  The best 5 shot group of the day measured 1.04" with my digital calipers.  There was no 5 shot group any larger than 1.60".  

For this type of upper, I find these accuracy results more than acceptable.  

Everything else - Reliability, ease of cleaning, etc etc

*I have put 500 rounds through this upper.  75 of these were slow fired from the bench, the other 425 were fired moderate-rapid fire.  I have experienced zero malfunctions of any kind.

* After fairly long strings of sustained fire, the barrel and gas block were of course, extremely hot.  I field stripped the rifle and the BCG was cold to the touch and completely clean.  Cleaning the BCG after 500 rounds consisted of a wipe with a rag.

* I disassembled the piston system, wiped off the carbon dust with a rag, applied a light coat of oil to the operating rod, and reinstalled the system.  That's it.  

Overall Impressions

I like it.  I like it a lot.  This is my first piston upper.  I was skeptical of the hype, as I think many here were.  I decided to give this a shot after getting a good deal in a trade.  So far the upper has performed beautifully.  This will be the upper for my 3 gun competition rifle, so it will see a lot of heavy use.  At this point, I have no reason to think that it's not up to the task.

Link Posted: 11/29/2009 4:20:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 4:32:45 PM EDT
[#2]
thanks for taking the time to post your review..sounds like it's worth giving a shot for those who are interested in getting a piston set up..
Link Posted: 11/29/2009 6:44:32 PM EDT
[#3]


Sounds like a nice rifle. Thanks for the range report.  There's a particular lack of pics on this thread though.





Link Posted: 12/1/2009 3:46:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:


Sounds like a nice rifle. Thanks for the range report.  There's a particular lack of pics on this thread though.







Fixed
Link Posted: 12/1/2009 4:54:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:


Sounds like a nice rifle. Thanks for the range report.  There's a particular lack of pics on this thread though.







Fixed


There it is. Sure WTJ1169 threw his in and it's a nice rifle too, but he didn't post the range report. I think it's almost a minor sin to post one and not pics also. Sweet.

Link Posted: 12/1/2009 1:28:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Sounds like a nice rifle. Thanks for the range report.  There's a particular lack of pics on this thread though.







Fixed


There it is. Sure WTJ1169 threw his in and it's a nice rifle too, but he didn't post the range report. I think it's almost a minor sin to post one and not pics also. Sweet.



WOW...I like yours better Pro2AinPA...nice stick!  
(I put up my pic so everyone could see what you were talking about. I didn't want to hijack your thread)


Link Posted: 12/1/2009 5:25:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 8:20:41 AM EDT
[#8]


both of these rifles are beautiful


I concur. Don't be shy with the pics guys.


Link Posted: 12/2/2009 12:33:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:


both of these rifles are beautiful


I concur. Don't be shy with the pics guys.




Ok...Here's what you get when you order a dedicated piston upper from Spikes outfitted with Troy sights:


Here's one more pic of the upper on a Spike's lower...ready to roll:
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 1:13:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:


both of these rifles are beautiful


I concur. Don't be shy with the pics guys.




Ok...Here's what you get when you order a dedicated piston upper from Spikes outfitted with Troy sights:
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/upperstt2keyangle01.jpg

Here's one more pic of the upper on a Spike's lower...ready to roll:
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/riflerightsling03.jpg



Ah, that is beautiful.

Thanks.

Do you know, does Spike's have that modification to the gas block done or does Adams? It's quite a bit of metal taken away from the standard Adams version block.

Link Posted: 12/2/2009 1:27:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Whats it cost?
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 1:36:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Whats it cost?


$1395.00.
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 2:03:14 PM EDT
[#13]

Ah, that is beautiful.

Thanks.

Do you know, does Spike's have that modification to the gas block done or does Adams? It's quite a bit of metal taken away from the standard Adams version block.



The dedicated piston uppers are OEM'd by Adams Arms for Spike's.  It's not a mod –– Adams Arms produces this low profile pinned gas block version.
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 2:08:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:

Ah, that is beautiful.

Thanks.

Do you know, does Spike's have that modification to the gas block done or does Adams? It's quite a bit of metal taken away from the standard Adams version block.



The dedicated piston uppers are OEM'd by Adams Arms for Spike's.  It's not a mod –– Adams Arms produces this low profile pinned gas block version.


It's strange they don't offer them in kits. I bet a few people would prefer them.  

Link Posted: 12/2/2009 3:41:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 4:04:45 PM EDT
[#16]


And the purpose of posting that link was what, exactly?  I asked for advice, got it, and then got one.  Your point?  
Link Posted: 12/2/2009 5:58:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:


And the purpose of posting that link was what, exactly?  I asked for advice, got it, and then got one.  Your point?  


Actually I think he posted that for my question of the modified gas block. If he did, I appreciate it. What it looks like to me from the Weapons Evolution pics and info is that Spike's is having it made, and engraved with the Spikes spider and Made in the USA. Maybe Adams_Arms Jim can clarify what's up a bit more if he pops back in. It literally is quite different from the AA block.

WE thread




Link Posted: 12/3/2009 7:37:48 AM EDT
[#18]
Here's a pic of my Spikes/Adams. I bought it before they received the Dedicated uppers at Spikes. It has been FLAWLESS!
Link Posted: 12/3/2009 9:04:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Here's a pic of my Spikes/Adams. I bought it before they received the Dedicated uppers at Spikes. It has been FLAWLESS! http://i47.tinypic.com/255qrk1.jpg


Very nice. I've admired your AA/Spikes AR before. I'm wondering why you have the front BUIS on the rail of the forearm though instead of further forward on the block to increase sight plane. Are you worried about the gas release as it goes forward from the piston/block melting the polymer Magpul BUIS? Or even just the heat of the block itself melting the polymer BUIS?

Adams animation


Link Posted: 12/3/2009 9:11:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's a pic of my Spikes/Adams. I bought it before they received the Dedicated uppers at Spikes. It has been FLAWLESS! http://i47.tinypic.com/255qrk1.jpg


Very nice. I've admired your AA/Spikes AR before. I'm wondering why you have the front BUIS on the rail of the forearm though instead of further forward on the block to increase sight plane. Are you worried about the gas release as it goes forward from the piston/block melting the polymer Magpul BUIS? Or even just the heat of the block itself melting the polymer BUIS?

Adams animation




Yes, Magpul has stated that the MBUS should NOT be used on a gas block, whether it's a DI or Piston gun.
Link Posted: 12/3/2009 9:26:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's a pic of my Spikes/Adams. I bought it before they received the Dedicated uppers at Spikes. It has been FLAWLESS! http://i47.tinypic.com/255qrk1.jpg


Very nice. I've admired your AA/Spikes AR before. I'm wondering why you have the front BUIS on the rail of the forearm though instead of further forward on the block to increase sight plane. Are you worried about the gas release as it goes forward from the piston/block melting the polymer Magpul BUIS? Or even just the heat of the block itself melting the polymer BUIS?

Adams animation




Yes, Magpul has stated that the MBUS should NOT be used on a gas block, whether it's a DI or Piston gun.




Reeeaaalllly. But, but, I thought everything they made was near indestructible.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't buy any than, because that would not work for me. I had a feeling heat wouldn't be kind to them. I'm going to be running my new piston AR quite K.I.S.S. for a while with a set of Daniels Defense non folding BUIS.
I will be setting mine up with a Magpul MOE handguard, MIAD and CTR stock though.
I'll get a range report and some pics up myself once it's here and I get to put some rounds downrange with it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2009 11:25:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Good luck with your new piston.... I like my M6A3 a lot....
Link Posted: 12/3/2009 11:42:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's a pic of my Spikes/Adams. I bought it before they received the Dedicated uppers at Spikes. It has been FLAWLESS! http://i47.tinypic.com/255qrk1.jpg


Very nice. I've admired your AA/Spikes AR before. I'm wondering why you have the front BUIS on the rail of the forearm though instead of further forward on the block to increase sight plane. Are you worried about the gas release as it goes forward from the piston/block melting the polymer Magpul BUIS? Or even just the heat of the block itself melting the polymer BUIS?

Adams animation



It's the "Melting" issue. I originally had it on the block but one of the good fellas here set me straight... Makes sense.

Link Posted: 12/8/2009 3:21:15 PM EDT
[#24]


Here's my new Spike's/Adams ST-15. I'll have a range report soon enough myself depending when I can get over to the range.




Link Posted: 12/9/2009 3:51:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 12/9/2009 10:07:01 PM EDT
[#26]






Yes, Magpul has stated that the MBUS should NOT be used on a gas block, whether it's a DI or Piston gun.


Is it ok to mount the polymer Magpul MBUS on top of a free float handguard above the gas block? will it still melt the sights because of heat?





Link Posted: 12/10/2009 6:27:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whats it cost?


$1395.00.




Whoa, thats a bit steep. For that kind of money I would go with a complete Addax GPU.

I'm not bashing Spikes or AA, because I am getting the AA piston kit, just saying that there are other options that are, IMO, better for the money.
Link Posted: 12/10/2009 6:33:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Whats it cost?


$1395.00.




Whoa, thats a bit steep. For that kind of money I would go with a complete Addax GPU.

I'm not bashing Spikes or AA, because I am getting the AA piston kit, just saying that there are other options that are, IMO, better for the money.


You know what they say about opinions, right?
Link Posted: 12/10/2009 6:53:34 AM EDT
[#29]

You know what they say about opinions, right?



Indeed. However, It's hard to argue with Lothar Walther. :)

Like I said, I am in no way bashing anything in this system, I actually like it a lot,  but when I compare it to what Addax has to offer, I feel that the better value and quality is with with the Addax. Yes, another opinion. lol


EDIT: great review Pro.
Link Posted: 12/10/2009 7:01:05 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:

You know what they say about opinions, right?



Indeed. However, It's hard to argue with Lothar Walther. :)

Like I said, I am in no way bashing anything in this system, I actually like it a lot,  but when I compare it to what Addax has to offer, I feel that the better value and quality is with with the Addax. Yes, another opinion. lol


EDIT: great review Pro.


I actually traded for this upper, didn't pay a penny.  Got a good deal.  
Link Posted: 12/10/2009 7:02:57 AM EDT
[#31]
It doesseem like a great deal. What did you trade for it?
Link Posted: 12/10/2009 7:04:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
It doesseem like a great deal. What did you trade for it?


DI upper with a 16" Noveske barrel.  Don't worry, I have a couple more Noveske barrels.  
Link Posted: 12/15/2009 7:57:11 PM EDT
[#33]
At $1000 the spikes upper is a deal.  At $1395, massively overpriced.

All the piston guns and uppers that cost this are whacked.  Stag will have a piston gun for $1100 soon.  Slap a $250 rail on it and you have a full piston gun for less than the cost of the Spikes upper.

The whole piston market is due a massive correction.  There is nothing on an LWRC M6A3 that should make it sell for over $1400 max.  Same with LMT CQB.  As more vendors (like Stag) come out with piston guns for just a tad more than DI, the price pressure will drop these prices.

I bet when Sabre and S&W come out with full rifles based on Adams ikits, full, railed rifles will see for at most $1400.
Link Posted: 12/17/2009 5:34:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 2:10:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 12/18/2009 10:04:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Page AR-15 » AR Piston Systems
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