User Panel
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Quoted:
Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif View Quote The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. |
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The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 |
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that piston system spills out like a pez dispenser
seems like a lotta parts in there |
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Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. |
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Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. If it does not change the molecular properties of the substrate or result in a chemical change in its properties, then it's a plating process or coating. Np3 is also a coating process, but its molecules are smaller than NiB and wear properties more advantageous. |
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that piston system spills out like a pez dispenser seems like a lotta parts in there View Quote that was my first thought too....not sure that is the best idea for ALOT of shooters. my other first off gripe would be that all those little parts up front will be subject to carbon fouling and the rotating plug will get froze up unless you stay on the cleaning. my POF upper had a plug like that, that froze up. so did the plug on my FN SCAR. so did my AA....i know the FAL uses it and that doesnt make it right. just my .02 but its a fail. i'll stick to the LWRC design that doesnt need the plug. |
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If it does not change the molecular properties of the substrate or result in a chemical change in its properties, then it's a plating process or coating. Np3 is also a coating process, but its molecules are smaller than NiB and wear properties more advantageous. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. If it does not change the molecular properties of the substrate or result in a chemical change in its properties, then it's a plating process or coating. Np3 is also a coating process, but its molecules are smaller than NiB and wear properties more advantageous. But NP3, like chrome lining, changes the surface of the barrel insides which affect accuracy. Nitriding does not. A nitrided barrel has the exact same contour and inner diameter that it had before the nitriding process. That is why nitride is superior for the barrel lining. NP3 works for everything else. |
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Whats the resistance of nitride to fouling, corrosion and barrel life as to hard chrome? |
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Whats the resistance of nitride to fouling, corrosion and barrel life as to hard chrome? View Quote Nitride or NiB? NiB vs Chrome (assuming the chroming was done properly): Fouling Resistance = Advantage NIB Corrosion Resistance = Advantage Chrome Barrel Life = Advantage Chrome Nitriding (assuming you mean Salt Balt / Meloniting) vs Chrome: Fouling Resistance = Tie Corrosion Resistance = Advantage Meloniting Barrel Life = Advantage Meloniting |
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you guys should go start another chrome vs Nitriding thread
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you guys should go start another chrome vs Nitriding thread View Quote Each treatment and plating process has a pro and con depending on your particular use case and environment. If history holds true, every 6-8 years we get a new coating or treatment processs breakthrough or a leap in the efficacy of existing technologies. No one has yet come up with the magic coating that checks all the boxes, all the time, in all environments. Kudos to the man or woman who does and patents it; they're going to have a license to print money. |
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Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 Nitriding is absolutely not a surface plating process. I don't think you're going to get any tighter "molecular bonding" than inserting atoms into the crystal structure of the metal, down to a depth of many hundredths of an inch under the surface. Felt a need to circle back on this and apologize for my reading error. He wrote "Nitriding" and for some reason my mind thought he was talking about NiB. Nitriding is in fact Salt Balt, Meloniting, etc. and is not a coating. It is process change and treatment of the metal. Basically we're both in agreement, and I was arguing with myself. |
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Looks nice. Not a big fan of having lots of pieces to the piston, but if it works, it works. Externally, it almost seems like a sudo-FNC. If the gas system is self-regulating, I'm wondering how rough it'll be with a suppressor.
Henderson Defense just got one for testing, so we'll find out how it stands up to being abused like a $2 whore on payday. |
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Have a buddy I know in the Taiwan military.
He likes this version a lot. Says it is extremely reliable. I am going to get an upper myself. |
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Looks like the Germans had an influence in the gas piston design...
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Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Looks promising. Likes: - Hammer Forged Barrel - Intermediate Profile Barrel - Price: $600 MSRP Dislikes: - Unknown Reputation - Handguard Upgradability? - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriOe6HsUQqjoK8vK/giphy.gif The fact that it comes apart no tools is already a huge plus. Cheap MSRP. Accuracy and dependability are my 2 main questions. Barrel and parts finishing as well. If it's chrome lined I'm already off board. Nitride is the future and all companies better get with the program. Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3 You dont know what your talking about. http://www.burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html |
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Nitriding is better than chrome, but I want tight molecular bonding and for that, I would want Np3. Nitriding like chrome is a surface plating process but it has poorer wear uniformity characteristics as compared to Np3] View Quote Robar does not plate inside of barrels with NP3+ or NP3. NiB-X is not a bore treatment. EASY TO CLEAN: NP3® Plus/NP3 is easy to clean; in most cases wiping with a rag will suffice (We do NOT plate the inside of barrels; these need to be cleaned conventionally). WMD Guns NiB-X barrel has a Nitromet nitrided bore treatment. |
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- A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? I am not sure about this part,however I heard it`s for the better recoil control (recoil buffer) and self regulated piston system. View Quote I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? |
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Quoted: I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? I am not sure about this part,however I heard it`s for the better recoil control (recoil buffer) and self regulated piston system. I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? |
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I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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- A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? I am not sure about this part,however I heard it`s for the better recoil control (recoil buffer) and self regulated piston system. I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? and that obsession with having a gas plug up front that is going to get carbon fouled and seize up is another issue i have with these piston AR upper mfg's. the LWRC may have some flaws but at least there are no part to freeze up due to fouling. i'll take the trade off of broken return spring and carry extras, rather than deal with gas plugs. the LW uppers will still run even with a broken spring, i know, it happened!! when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. |
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Quoted: and that obsession with having a gas plug up front that is going to get carbon fouled and seize up is another issue i have with these piston AR upper mfg's. the LWRC may have some flaws but at least there are no part to freeze up due to fouling. i'll take the trade off of broken return spring and carry extras, rather than deal with gas plugs. the LW uppers will still run even with a broken spring, i know, it happened!! when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: - A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? I am not sure about this part,however I heard it`s for the better recoil control (recoil buffer) and self regulated piston system. I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? and that obsession with having a gas plug up front that is going to get carbon fouled and seize up is another issue i have with these piston AR upper mfg's. the LWRC may have some flaws but at least there are no part to freeze up due to fouling. i'll take the trade off of broken return spring and carry extras, rather than deal with gas plugs. the LW uppers will still run even with a broken spring, i know, it happened!! when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. Sadly it does not mate with an AR. |
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and that obsession with having a gas plug up front that is going to get carbon fouled and seize up is another issue i have with these piston AR upper mfg's. the LWRC may have some flaws but at least there are no part to freeze up due to fouling. i'll take the trade off of broken return spring and carry extras, rather than deal with gas plugs. the LW uppers will still run even with a broken spring, i know, it happened!! when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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- A lot of small parts for the op rod system breakdown. There are designs the breakdown into 3 parts. Why does this need so many? I am not sure about this part,however I heard it`s for the better recoil control (recoil buffer) and self regulated piston system. I felt the same way; Assembly Tube, Gas Plug, Op Rod, Spring, Coupler(?), Another Spring. Just feels like more parts to fail or possibly lose during cleaning or trying to sort out a problem in the field. I would like to hear the designer's philosophy on why they felt so many parts were required? and that obsession with having a gas plug up front that is going to get carbon fouled and seize up is another issue i have with these piston AR upper mfg's. the LWRC may have some flaws but at least there are no part to freeze up due to fouling. i'll take the trade off of broken return spring and carry extras, rather than deal with gas plugs. the LW uppers will still run even with a broken spring, i know, it happened!! when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. Faxon arak |
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when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. View Quote Where is that rock you live under that you have never heard of PWS? In 5 1/2 years+++ I have never had a PWS gas system hiccup in anyway. I am still running a MK114 I bought in the spring of 2011. I have 2 Mod 0 versions that I shoot 3-5 times a week and hardly ever clean them. I do admit I do not shoot the newer version the Mod1 much, kind of my SHTF gun although I do shoot it some Seriously, the PWS design is a AK gas system in an AR15, has been since before I came here and asked what to buy. I was a Daewoo DR200 owner for 15+ years and wanted something like that in a light weight AR and there is still only one, PWS |
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Where is that rock you live under that you have never heard of PWS? In 5 1/2 years+++ I have never had a PWS gas system hiccup in anyway. I am still running a MK114 I bought in the spring of 2011. I have 2 Mod 0 versions that I shoot 3-5 times a week and hardly ever clean them. I do admit I do not shoot the newer version the Mod1 much, kind of my SHTF gun although I do shoot it some Seriously, the PWS design is a AK gas system in an AR15, has been since before I came here and asked what to buy. I was a Daewoo DR200 owner for 15+ years and wanted something like that in a light weight AR and there is still only one, PWS View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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when will some one just make an AR piston upper that more closely resembles the AK? or have they and i just live under a rock? the daewoo, FNC and SCAR rifles have near perfect designs for the piston, lets just make something like that in an upper that will snap into an AR lower. Where is that rock you live under that you have never heard of PWS? In 5 1/2 years+++ I have never had a PWS gas system hiccup in anyway. I am still running a MK114 I bought in the spring of 2011. I have 2 Mod 0 versions that I shoot 3-5 times a week and hardly ever clean them. I do admit I do not shoot the newer version the Mod1 much, kind of my SHTF gun although I do shoot it some Seriously, the PWS design is a AK gas system in an AR15, has been since before I came here and asked what to buy. I was a Daewoo DR200 owner for 15+ years and wanted something like that in a light weight AR and there is still only one, PWS PWS is one of the best, The older Mod 0 version, while non-FF and stuck with a fairly heavy handguard, is the most robust of their rifles. Paul Howe was a big fan of it, he even had a special CSAT variant commissioned. Serbu was supposed to have released a piston upper that is essentially a knock off of the SCAR, but it's been fucking vaporware. ETA: Had an idea for a neat quasi-retro piston build off the Wolf A1; RRA standalone rear sight, Aimpoint PRO/CompM3, Fulton A1 stock kit, and either IDF seatbelt sling or a Proctor WOTG. Be nice to make a BFG UWL work for the front sling mount, melted more than a few paracord mounts by mistake. |
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I contacted Wolf directly for an update two weeks ago, as they told me in October they would be shipping in January. Have not heard back from them.....
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I hope I'm wrong, but my guess is this will be another vaporware project like the Radom Archer and the B&T 556.
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B&T APC556 are out now.... And the Radom Archer's were, they just didn't sell well View Quote The B&Ts are imported as 'pistols' only and cost $3,000 each. You could own two CZ Bren S1 carbines for the same price as one of their 'pistols'. The problem with the Archers was not their popularity but I.O. quality control. I.O. imported them and fucked up the lower receivers when opening the mag-wells. Radom was supposed to open a TX import/machining warehouse to do it themselves, but it never happened. |
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The B&Ts are imported as 'pistols' only and cost $3,000 each. You could own two CZ Bren S1 carbines for the same price as one of their 'pistols'. The problem with the Archers was not their popularity but I.O. quality control. I.O. imported them and fucked up the lower receivers when opening the mag-wells. Radom was supposed to open a TX import/machining warehouse to do it themselves, but it never happened. View Quote Ok, Vaporware = a nonexistant product. You're bitching about price and quality |
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I'm referring to vaporware as non existent in the U.S. View Quote but back to OP--I am eagerly awaiting an ETA on these, and a rundown of the what and why of that piston system. |
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Nitride or NiB? NiB vs Chrome (assuming the chroming was done properly): Fouling Resistance = Advantage NIB Corrosion Resistance = Advantage Chrome Barrel Life = Advantage Chrome Nitriding (assuming you mean Salt Balt / Meloniting) vs Chrome: Fouling Resistance = Tie Corrosion Resistance = Advantage Meloniting Barrel Life = Advantage Meloniting View Quote No real dog in the fight but as far as barrel life is concerned chrome-lining is generally considered to be better. Stellite is even better than nitriding or chrome lining and is often used in machine gun barrels. However it is worth mentioning that chrome-lining is much more expensive to make as accurate as a nitrided barrel. |
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http://www.gunsandtech.com/photo-video/tyan/hands-on-with-the-wpa-t91-upper/
Field Testing the WPA T91 upper |
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Make Taiwan and Korea Great Again!
The optic is the new DI Optical FC1 mini prism red-dot sight. http://diopticalusa.com/?page_id=1219 |
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