Hello all, I bought a Windham Weaponry SRC (they were out of the iron sight version and I planned on optics before reading about the practicality of the handle and iron sights but too late now.)  I had a Cabela's Guidesman 3-9x40mm scope mounted on Nikkon P-Series mounts.

 I will also be using this as a home defense weapon (with Winchester .223 PDX1 rounds unless they are not good to use, looks like steel not brass to me.)  After researching some more I see that a red dot scope would be best for home defense (which I hope I never have to do.)  I do not want to give up the long range scope unless it affects the close quarter much.  It looks like I could do a 45 degree offset with the red dot.  So, what would be a good red dot to do so?  The Vortex Sparc or the Aimpoint PRO?  I think the smaller size would be great of the Vortex and $400 is pushing it after what I already have invested.  I haven't used the scope or gun yet so I should be able to exchange the scope if it really is a bad idea.  

 It appears the Aimpoint is better for battery life and durability but is the Vortex possibly good enough if you have a scope for anything but close quarter?  TruGlo or Sightmark?  What is the difference between the tubular ones that look like a fat short scope and the square sight ones?  I asked at the gun shop about a Red Dot with a magnifier and he suggested the Spark or the Pro but then I came across the 45 offset mount so don't need the magnification.

 And while I'm at it, are plastic quad rails junk or are some good?  Half the weight doesn't matter if it falls apart.  Are $50 ones to be avoided at all costs?  What is a decent budget one?  This is my first gun aside from the .22 bolt actions I grew up with.  And I think I already know the answer but is there a legal way to get burst mode on the gun?  I don't care about fully automatic but 3 rounds per pull would be nice.

Getting rid of double post due to internet connection issue, I don't see a delete button....

Having both optics will be bulky and heavy, and probably not necessary unless you plan to shoot Open Division in 3-Gun competitions. What do you actually want the 3-9x scope for? You would be surprised how far you can shoot accurately using a 2MOA red dot... I can consistently hit a man-size target beyond 500M with my PROs. Unless you need the magnification for something specific, I'd suggest selling the scope and buying an Aimpoint PRO. If you must have both, get a mount for the 3-9x that is designed for quick detach with a solid return-to-zero, then simply switch between optics as needed.

Skip the SPARC - I had one and didn't like it because (1) light transmission is poor and varies up and down the window, and (2) its too easy to bump it into NV mode and lose the dot. Aimpoint PRO is far and away the best red dot optic for the price.

Your other questions can be answered with a rudimentary search of this site.

The only small dot optic worth considering is the Aimpoint Micro.

I was going to recommend a Burris FastFire III. Care to explain your recommendation?  Thanks!

Battery life and faith.

So... battery life and religious belief?  

The FFIII has a battery that can be changed without re-zeroing the sight.

The FastFire dot sight have a fairly proven track record in 3 gun usage.

What exactly do you mean by "faith"?

Lucid M7 microdot.  Offset, run it without a riser.  Only 4.7 ounces.  EOTech like circle dot reticle is much faster than a plain dot.  Has excellent auto intensity adjustment with manual over ride.  Has auto shutdown after two hours.  Runs on a single AAA battery, that could last for years with auto shutdown.  I have two of them, one in a QD riser to run on my AR, the other on a tactical shotgun with no riser.  It holds zero with slugs and full power buckshot.  Amazing combination of features and value at $189 shipped from most vendors, less with discount coupon codes.

Consider a modular rail rather than a quad.  Four full rails is wasted space.  Only put little rails where needed.  If you are on a tight budget save a while and run your handguards.  Don't waste money on a $50 rail.

I haven't used Burris micro dots but their full sized ones I have no faith in.

I have a great deal of faith in Aimpoint products, from a decade of experience.

I have used firefire I and II with mixed results. I have never had issue with aimpoints.

Trijicon RMR.  Don't like batteries?  Get one of the dual-illuminated versions.

PA micro in a DD off-set mount. about $120. Not my "go-to" gun. Would I bet my life on it? Well, even turned off and used as a ghost sight I'll give myself much better odds behind it than in front of it

Thanks for the help,  looks like the h1 is the best bet over the pro with a larue Mount.   What size Mount should I get?  Just a Flattop right now no iron sights.   Might add a magnifier someday.  Unless the lucid is good enough but it sounds like aimpoint is the one to count on.  If I decide to keep the scope what quick Mount would be good?

Larue, Brobo, ADM all make nice mounts for both the H1 and scope. DD also makes a nice H1 mount if you don't want QD. I prefer lower 1/3 co-witness.

Daniel Defense offset mount and PA MD-FBGII.  I have the older version on a couple guns in this way and I like the top-mounted position of the power knob for this purpose.

Thanks again, last few questions for Red dots I think.   I'll be signing up for membership when i get home. Would it be less quick or comfortable to have the t1 mounted on a handle?  It seems that adds a lot of height.  I'd assume shortest Mount for that.  I read a handle is very useful.  And what is the difference between the t1 style and the open glass in the reticle.   Sorry for not searching,  just eager to get this ordered,  the modular rail I can read up on,  mainly just want a handle or bipod

I've never seen so many battery loving people in the world besides arfcom.

Aim point batteries die, i don't care who 'claims' what, I've seen dozens of aimpoint batteries die in the military. if your justifying a $300 more purchase on batteries your ridiculous. "well i leave my optic on at all times". Yeah, because god forbid you forget how to do that when you need it. "every second counts", true in a fire fight, however if your just going for your rifle, your not in a fire fight. Your talking the same amount of time to switch your rifle from safe to semi, do you leave your rifle loaded on semi?

I'm not saying dont get an aimpoint, they are great, im just saying they are over priced because the military uses it, just like surefire weapon lights.

ETA: to be useful to the thread, i picked up a Primary arms micro for like $60, they seem pretty decent

I'm not worried about batteries,  just want a quality one I can count on.  I'd rather not pay 600 but if I ever need it for home defense I don't want it to fail.   What would you suggest?  I don't mind spending 200 instead of 100 for a better one I can depend on as my only weapon.  Smaller is great too.

You don't have to pay $600, and you don't have to settle for $100 red dots that are not rugged.   I posted above info about the mid-ground Lucid M7.  Run it without a riser as an offset with your scope, or run it in a small riser QD mount and swap back and forth with a QD mounted scope.   Truly amazing set of features. Only 4.7 oz.  Same size as T-1, but with a better, EOTech type circle dot reticle, auto brightness and auto shutoff after two hours.  Rugged, dependable.  A single AAA battery.  Will not find a bad review anywhere.  Only $189 shipped.

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With regards to the SPARC, Vortex has announced the SPARC II which at least rectifies the button housing issues regarding the NV and power button, new battery type (now the more common CR2032),  and word from Vortex is that the glass is clearer than the first SPARC generation. Time will tell with regards to light transmission issues, etc, when they finally become available mind you, but they look fantastic. They are new for this year;

 












 

Thanks,  there are bad reviews on Amazon saying it's great in the lower hand but near the upper half it is distorted,  maybe early models?   Maybe I'll try that or wait for the sparc 2.  What would be a good offset Mount or a good quick disconnect for the price for the Red dot and a 1" tube scope?   I've got a nikon p Mount right now which I might even be able to exchange since it's been a few days and it is mounted but hasn't been used yet.

Yeah, the SPARC II hasn't even been released yet, so definately will be related to the original SPARC.

My first bit of advice is to slow down a little and think things through.  Unless you are getting death threats and need this tomorrow.  Since $$ seem to have some importance, a little time waiting for a deal can save you some real bucks.  More important, while recommendations of our arfcom peers are important, we all have different needs, desires, eyes and facial structure.  For example, quick disconnect mounts are very tacti-cool but I doubt more than 10% are frequently used and they can raise the height of the optic.  My shooting background is mostly shotgun where the rule is "wood-to-wood", i.e. cheekbone firm on the stock; for me that meant removing the spacer that came with the integrated mount on my Aimpoint Pro.  (FWIW, shooting from a bench, no sled, I can get a sub 4-1/2" group at 100y.  Better eyes on a better target would probably be sub 2".)  Your bone structure may require the extra height of a QD or other mount to get a quick and consistent sight picture.  Go to some sporting good stores (Cabela's is a good choice) and handle the merchandise.  They can mount samples for you to try and compare.  Try the red-dots close up and also out to the front keeping both eyes open.  Keep in mind that if you can save $150 by using the mount that comes with the optic, either get a better optic or more ammo.  If in addition you really need or want the scope for hunting or the range, you can change back and forth in a minute without the QD.

Best of luck!

I use a dual illumination Trijicon RMR on an 45 degree offset mount on my 308 to complement a Vortex PST 2.5-10x32.  I like it.

Thanks, after seeing all the recommendations I thought I should slow down.   I'm just a bit too eager to try out my first gun I bought myself.   Mine didn't come with any kind of aiming signs either besides the scope I bought.   I didn't know they would Mount sample ones for you to try,  it might be worth another hour drive.  I'll do some reading this weekend and do appreciate all the suggestions.

I decided to go with the Lucid M7 because of the autobrightness feature and circle plus dot.  I just got it today and it's defective.  Instead of one circle reticle and dot it has a cluster of at least 10 all overlapping each other.  I was leaning towards Eotech for the holographic and known quality but it doesn't appear they have auto brightness and weigh a significant amount more.  So I might just get this one replaced or repaired.

I like the Trijicon RMR. We rock them on top of our HK's and on the SAW's. Pretty rock solid and holds up to abuse.

O.P. you stated you will be using this rifle for home defense . what are your other plans ? plinking , hunting , target shooting ? think about it .  there are alot of unknowns out there and why do you need to put rails on your gun there are other options for lights or a hand grip . just throwing money at something never gives the desired results .

Yes it will be for home defense but I'll probably end up plinking with it too.  I would like a bipod and vertical grip,  possibly a flashlight, hence the thought of a new hand guard.

 I just got a replacement m7 and it has the exact same problem.  I don't know how I got two duds in a row.  I'll look into the trijicon, the dual  illumination did sound great.   I really like the auto brightness feature which I think no one else has.  duds do happen maybe I'll send it in for repair and wait.

Man, I steered you wrong on the M7.  Both of mine have been excellent.  Did you deal direct with Lucid on the replacement?  They will want to know and make it right.  Call them.  Let them know this is being discussed on this board.  The owner is a member, Jason Wilson.

Do you know if you have astigmatism?  There is a link on the Lucid website FAQ page that demonstrates how astigmatism causes blurred or multiple red dot images.  If you do, this could be a problem for you with most, if not all red dot sights. If so, the M7 might not be the problem.  That you have the same image issue with both M7 causes me to think astigmatism.

One easy way to self test for astigmstism is to punch a pinhole in a piece of paper, maybe a bit larger and look through the hole and then through the optic at the illuminated reticle.  If the blurred, multiple or distorted image clears up completely or noticably, then you probably have astigmatism.  Glasses or certain types od contact lenses can correct this for many people.

Also, magnifying the dot can sometimes fix the problem.

The Lucid does seem really nice.  I do have a slight astigmatism according to my doctor, but not enough to notice anything wrong when using regular contacts.  But I guess it's enough to cause issues with the sight.  Even with my glasses it shows up a little bit inside at close range but is okay looking out the window outside.  But, I probably won't have my glasses if something ever does happen.  So they both might have had a slight issue, what I don't get is when I read up more I saw about the astigmatism issues, so I tried rotating the sight and it distortions rotate with it.

 Anyway, I'll either keep the m7 or pony up for an EoTech.  It might have the same issue but I think having the 65 MOA circle instead of 25 might be better for that.  I looked through a Aimpoint T1 and Vortex Sparc at the gun store and didn't notice anything but maybe the dot just looked bigger and I didn't notice.  That's cool the owner is a board member here too.  I wouldn't have even looked at the Lucid so I appreciate it, if I had great eyes it would probably awesome.

I wasted $176 on a SPARC.  Absolutely hate the thing.  Horrible light transmission, poor battery connection (dot flickers during recoil), and you have a choice between either night vision mode or too damn bright.

FWIW, its replacement came in via UPS today-- an Elcan SpectreOS4.