Thanks for giving the explanation for me. I did delete it because on second thought I could of been getting a fellow upstanding American in hot water. They are going to confiscate all these lasers if they find them. Of that I am sure. I was trying to show how people can go to a business and buy a class III laser. But, the whole "stolen vs. not stolen" deal really does not matter at all. Every legal way to get one hits a regulation snag.

You could have a bill of sale right from the police dept. and they will still seize it. Just how the law is written. Guess you could fight them in court over it but I don't think it will make any difference. Just cost you a bunch of money. It may not be illegal to own it but there is no way legal to get it so they will take it. Build your own or modify a class I is the only way I can find. Just don't sell them. Read so many FDA laser laws my head hurts. It is just one big circle that brings you back to we can't have nice things. It is for the safety of the children.

You almost need a degree in physics, math and a law degree or two would not hurt either. I read all this stuff and still am confused. The more I read the worse it got. Here is the link and if you figure it out let me know.

I think as long as you stay under 5 mw you are fine. But, I am no laser tech guy and I might have it all wrong. After reading all this I am not even sure that my DVD player won't be confiscated.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/cfrsearch.cfm?fr=1040.10

Just horrible.... My condolences to you Sir.

You can build a laser of any power legally. Using it outdoors/in public is sometimes a legal gray area.
If you have 100-200 bucks, you can build a handheld/weapon mounted laser anywhere from 2mW to 2400mW pretty easily.

Eta: found it

I tried to call the number on the ICE.gov site for the office Agent Wu mentioned in his official bulletin, and the number is disconnected.

Agent Wu's number is on hundreds of lists of repeat random calls.

Am I doing something wrong?

ETA: I just called again on personal and the man who answered said, after a long pause, theres an Agent Wu who is out of the Los Angeles office.
The line only works if you call on non-govt/unblocked line

i thought he said he was out of the seattle office?

The agent that answered the phone told me he's out of the LA office, and the number i called was from the I.C.E. Site

Hey Seattle is kinda close to LA.  Don't call him out on Semantics he's from the Govt and he knows better than you and that's it.  

Who knows.. I am meeting with some fed friends from ice and others today and I wil forward Wu's correspondence to them to check on. Wu keeps sending me IM's to call him on his phone

That is really interesting.



I wonder if there's a way to find out if these "Agents" have any ties in the NV industry as I can't think of a better way to increase the sales of class 1 lasers than the shenanigans of these two.

So people actually sent him their lasers?



 

For all the "molon labe"  and "lawyer up" bravado here, most will turn tail when confronted w/ "authority".

Not me.  When they come'a askin'....I'll tell them to FOAD.  And when they ask who that was, I'll tell them my name...TCBA_Joe!!

Naw. According to some people here, since I'm in the guard I'll be leading the charge riding the lead tank's bbl screaming "turn over all your guns and lasers to your new overlords" through a mega phone.

It'll be pretty awkward when I kick open your door and you try to convince me you're me.

Lol, apparently I'll be right alongside you stomping on America's civil liberties and doing all sorts of infringing.

And that ^^ is why the USA can NOT be taken over by the "Gubbmint"......... The minute that they have to call the guard or active duty military out, they (the gubbmint morons) won't have to worry about FDA regulations for Lasers, they will need to worry about the guy who has YEARS of combat experience, insurgent know-how, and all the "guns with fun buttons" that were just drawn from the arms room and just walked away.

Not quite...
This might happen if martial law was declared on the country right now, but instead, rights are gradually being chipped away. Frog in a pot.

Any updates?

Im sent

Can you IM me also.

Judging by the space below his name, where a badge would be if you could see it, one would imagine his credentials have been verified by site staff in some way.

Confirmed to be legitimate

My apologies for side tracking, just watching out

Well that's to be expected, but why admit to it?



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

That depends.  If they convinced me I possessed no-kidding stolen U.S. Government property, I'd turn it in without a fight.  I have no wish to possess stolen property purchased with taxpayer money. However, their position seems to be that all such devices are, by default, considered stolen.  THAT I have a problem with.  Our legal system has a presumption of INNOCENCE, not guilt.  If there is any doubt as to the status of the item, I would insist on them following legal processes to seize property I believe I hold legitimately.  I admit, given their attitude, that I'd be suspicious of any "proof" they presented about the status of the item.

As I've said, despite what the FDA WANTS you believe, they do not the statutory authority to regulate secondary markets, but the Feds DO have the right to recover stolen property.

Strongbow, you make good points. The assumption of everything being stolen is innacurate. Just because the .gov bought it and did not destroy it once it got marked off as damaged or unserviceable does not mean whatever happens next is theft.

I have personally seen a couple units throw IR lasers, armor, helmets (MiCH and newer) surefire lights, optics etc in the garbage/ handed out to everyone by supply because they were beyond the date of replacement or they got new toys. They were all marked destroyed because that's just what they do and I'm sure it happens everywhere. I suspect Agent Wu will have a hard time getting any info off many lasers for this very reason. The company only knows they were sold to a unit, and the unit didn't care to follow ridiculous protocols, as their fiscal budget relies on quick turn around for gear.

I have kept my mouth shut about these practices but I have seen this as well. When my unit disbanded after our deployment all of our COTS scopes on our sniper rifles were handed out to us by our CO. I had seen other items that were not on the property books handed out to soldiers because the unit couldn't keep these items and couldn't find another unit that needed them.

I remember helping out a unit once that had dozens of bins full of stuff that would make most of the memebers on here heads spin. They were throwing all of it away and told us to help ourselves to anything we wanted to keep. Right, wrong, or indifferent I do not feel that soldiers that had gotten this stuff should be demonized for it or even forced to turn it back in. this is the way I have always known the military to do things, even growing up around the military as a kid this was a normal thing.

This happens all across the military.  I've seen LOTS of aircraft parts get canned to  make space to spend more money on new parts, cause if we didn't spend the money our budgets would be that much smaller next year and we might need it to make mission.

I've honestly got no problem with gear that's gonna get destroyed anyway being given to the troops that used the damn things defending the country.  Our money paid for the damn things already.  (Tax money)

ive seen it too. on al asad back in 09 our unit was emptying out conex boxes from previous units. they were FILLED with gear. brand new uniforms, PRRs radios, TASC headsets, CVC Helmets, SAPI plates, brand new interceptor carriers and MTVs, full sleeping systems, boots, helmet pads, LWHs, ILBE packs, etc. ALL of it went to the burn pit so it could be written off to buy new gear in the states. it was too expensive to have it all disinfected to be able to clear customs, and to pay for all of it to get shipped back. since it was all being destroyed, our unit said hey come on down to supply and take what you want.

id be fucking damned if someone told me that since what i have is listed as destroyed by the military log books, that by default it was stolen. say what you want about what is SUPPOSED to be done, the fact is that at unit level its different.

Ha when I checked into my first unit they had just got back from Iraq.  They had a connex box full of MREs and ESS Profile goggles.  Everyone in the unit got at least 2 pairs of goggles and a case of MREs if they wanted them.

This is the kind of stuff I have dreams about. Boxes of free ACOGs, DBALs, etc. And then I wake up.

Ive been reading the exchange on here Re this i have something to contribute .    I had a Glare Mout laser  i traded for after some time owning it  put it up on E bay for sale ( I snuck it in as E bay will not alow you to even list them due to the power level ) . I was contacted By the DHS agents posting on here as to it being property of the US Gov . At first i thought it was some kind of scammer as being from " New York " i / we dont fall for B.S to easily so i did my own research before returning the call i received from them .   It checked out the Site went to DHS the e mail is a .gov address Etc etc i told the agent you know i checked into you , he sounded kinda surprised lol  .....I was told i could bring it into NYC DHS or they could arrange to pick it up or mail it ..........So i mailed it Back to the address that is the DHS building as per my checking  ...$1000 i was asking in E bay isn't worth having the other possible options and for all the shit house lawyers etc on here Speaking as a former Police officer and a Former ARRESTED person also . The law is a real funny thing and Lawyers do get expensive try it if you don't believe me .......and id rather not have them going thru my stuff either if i can avoid that   . Bottom line if the Glare mout was never sold to the public and my listing had a pic of the serial number it would be pretty easy to establish " Probable cause etc etc .........so yeah if i told the agent to go get F'ed in the mouth im pretty sure they would be " Visiting me " .......yes i could have told him i just sold it an hour before he contacted me and told him i sold it Joe Unknown at 7-11 but at the very minimum it could warrant an investigation and id rather not have black SUVs following me around all day.....   Every so often i use my BRAIN !!!    is it really worth the possible aggravation . imo NO its not .  As far as the Peq debate which the thread morphed into why not just get a MARS ITL and be done with it ........its got a red dot sight and an IR FDA blinding  , retinal weapon in it also   , and my um Friend of a friends uncle has that i think id hate to break any laws myself ....Come to think of it the IR laser is Prob the only " Weapon like " thing you could legaly carry in this F shop of a state NY as long as the FDA aint rolling in those Police cars ..lol

As a wise man once said:  "You can beat the rap, but you cant beat ride."

And that ride can be painful and expensive.   Good move.

Very wise words.  

Interestingly, there have been 2 AN/PEQ-2Aa listed on ebay in the past couple of weeks. Both have been pulled before the auction was over.

I've noticed that too lately. They get up to over a grand then disappear, not that the sellers cant end the auction at any time & sell to the current highest bidder - but most sellers like to see the bids escalate more than anything - so I doubt they all just decided to end the auctions sooner than the stated end time. I keep an eye on each one that comes up for sale on eBay including PEQ-15's, & any other IR laser that the United States Military has used or is currently using. Most sellers now state that the unit is Not Stolen Gov't property - but they may be copycatting each other there to try & cover their own ass. Are they stolen - Did they run the #'s - who knows as each unit has its own history - who purchased it - where it went - how did it end up on the bay -  Its interesting to say the least.......

Were we in the same unit? LOL, we did that shit my whole deployment.

I was in TFMP on Al Asad from '08-'09

LOL, i was in 3/9 on camp ripper during 09

I just read this whole thing, being new to the IR world.... and the first thing that got me, that i had to share was this:

Texas Penal Code

Sec. 31.11.  TAMPERING WITH IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS.  (a)  A person commits an offense if the person:
(1)  knowingly or intentionally removes, alters, or obliterates the serial number or other permanent identification marking on tangible personal property;  or
(2)  possesses, sells, or offers for sale tangible personal property and:
(A)  the actor knows that the serial number or other permanent identification marking has been removed, altered, or obliterated;  or
(B)  a reasonable person in the position of the actor would have known that the serial number or other permanent identification marking has been removed, altered, or obliterated.
(b)  It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the person was:
(1)  the owner or acting with the effective consent of the owner of the property involved;
(2)  a peace officer acting in the actual discharge of official duties; or
(3)  acting with respect to a number assigned to a vehicle by the Texas Department of Transportation or the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles, as applicable, and the person was:
(A)  in the actual discharge of official duties as an employee or agent of the department; or
(B)  in full compliance with the rules of the department as an applicant for an assigned number approved by the department.
(c)  Property involved in a violation of this section may be treated as stolen for purposes of custody and disposition of the property.
(d)  An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(e)  In this section, "vehicle" has the meaning given by Section 541.201, Transportation Code.

If it ain't yours, you should not be messing with any part of it.



 

Well, I'm a DoD related person, and there are many other options.  Unfortunately, NVG devices are superior for detail of individual animals / people, but to get that you really need a great illuminator.  The PEQ-2 series is really useful for that, but to be honest, it it turns out that the it's not the laser pointer that's so awesome, it's the illuminator.  NV equipment will pickup visable light, of course, but if you don't want your target to know where you are, or, more importantly, you don't want to spook the Cyote that's been eating the calfs (sp?) in your heard... you don't want a visable laser.

Truthfully, what you want in most of these situations is a THERMAL weapons sight... but they're expensive.  A PVS-14 of some sort and a laser/illuminator might set you back $6000.00, but a thermal sight will be at least $9000.00 to $25000.  That's more than most people can afford...

Until recently (last 2 years), there were not GREAT class 1 lasers or wonderous LED devices to do this (and they haven't be available in quantity for 2 years).  Also, most people are not aware that the DBAL for civilian use is, in most regards superor, to the PEQ-2A... I'd much rather have one of those.

So, at any rate,  I think that's why folks purchased the AN/PEQ-2A units when they became available and it wasn't obvious the sources were not legitimate....  Personally, I've also witnessed folks claiming to have purchased them from LEOs that got them as part of group buy at the "department," etc.  I suspect that has happened as any little hamlet with letter head and LEO credentials can potentially purchase them...

Anyway, I'd love to talk to you.

GB

BTW:

Go to the DHS website, find the DHS/ICE branch offices, note the number for the Seattle regional office, call that number, use the dial by name option, and type WU into the phone.

It will connect you to his voicemail.

Seem's a decent sort.

it's been confirmed that he is legit

Is the Insight CVL-001 restricted too? This Ebay guy says it is the visible laser version. But the label shows class 3A laser. Item also has an NSN so makes me think this is not a civilian model.

Ebay Link

Bad juju or is this civilian legal?

All lasers have a power rating.

NSN is just a part number. Leatherman tools have NSNs.

The CVL is legal to own.

i saw that link as well. the CVL is legal to own since it is only visible laser. however, i strongly strongly strongly question its origin seeing as how that seller lives near a major base in VA and sells military issue gear almost exclusively.

but again, when the CVLs were phased out, i dont know what the military did with them, since they werent IR. who knows, maybe they just gave em away to the special squirrel guys that used them.

Yea I was wondering because it was a class 3B laser and apparently there are versions of the CVL that are IR, I did not know this. Everytime I look at Ebay I find something that makes my head spin and it reminds me how lucky I am to NOT be a PBO -property book officer.