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AR, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2010 12:45:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Everyone is getting hung up on "1100 degree" silver solder. If you read the ATF reg it states " 56% silver content, 1100 degree Silver Solder" . I'd hate to see someone go to jail because they did everything right but used the wrong percentage of silver content. 'Fusion' from Brownells has the correct %age of silver content.
:D Aif PS: I silver solder all my Flash Hiders. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2010 2:29:14 PM EDT
[#2]
My question is a simple one.
Anyone know of someone (gunsmith) will do the 1100 deg. SS method and guarantee the quality of their work? I do not want to be able to look at it and tell that it was permanently attached. No discoloration, no solder overflow, nothing. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2010 2:13:30 AM EDT
[#3]
OK here's a stupid question. Do you guys actually shoot your guns that you're so worried about it looking like you can't tell? Just get it on there and shoot the crap out of it. Hell, I've done more damage to my barrel and flashhider from using it than anything listed in this thread. Is this in airsoft forum or what?
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Posted: 5/30/2010 8:39:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255:
The 1200 degree silver solder is the way to go, I have had both done, the blind pin by ADCO which was a piss poor job, I had to have some welding done over it locally to make it look good after I got it back. My second one was the silver solder method and that is the only way I will do one from now on. bchance1, one thing that you need to add to the price of the ADCO job is shipping both ways! It seems a no brainer to me, the silver solder method is both easier and more cost effective, not to mention less down time for you. JMO Do you have pics of both examples? |
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Posted: 6/1/2010 10:40:52 PM EDT
[#5]
bump
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2010 9:25:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Firefightinlv]
[#6]
How tight is the FH attached do you tourqe it down then weld the solder or can you heat the solder and when it runs then tighten it up?
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Posted: 6/3/2010 9:40:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By Firefightinlv: How tight is the FH attached do you tourqe it down then weld the solder or can you heat the solder and when it runs then tighten it up? Tighten FH on normally, then apply heat and look for good solder flow at the joint between the barrel and the FH. The proper material is a solder paste with the required silver content and melting point, which you apply to the threads on the barrel first, then screw down the FH and heat until flow. |
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Posted: 6/3/2010 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By WayneG:
Originally Posted By Firefightinlv:
How tight is the FH attached do you tourqe it down then weld the solder or can you heat the solder and when it runs then tighten it up? Tighten FH on normally, then apply heat and look for good solder flow at the joint between the barrel and the FH. The proper material is a solder paste with the required silver content and melting point, which you apply to the threads on the barrel first, then screw down the FH and heat until flow. This.... Exactly right! |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2010 11:38:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks I was thinking about addin a KX3 to a project I have. Thanks !!!!
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MA, USA
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Posted: 6/20/2010 10:35:37 AM EDT
[#10]
I have a standard sight tower on my AR. If I solder on a compensator now will it hurt the barrel steel if I Un-solder the comp to replace the sight tower and then re-solder it in place again? This would require heating up the thread area three times and makes me worry about the steel's temper. Any thoughts?
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Posted: 6/20/2010 11:19:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By JohnDoe_69: I have a standard sight tower on my AR. If I solder on a compensator now will it hurt the barrel steel if I Un-solder the comp to replace the sight tower and then re-solder it in place again? This would require heating up the thread area three times and makes me worry about the steel's temper. Any thoughts? If you follow the procedures outlined in this thread and use HEATSTOP or similar product you should be fine, but frankly if you know you're going to replace the sight tower I'd hold off and just do this the one time, just to save time, effort, and material. |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2010 12:10:36 AM EDT
[#12]
As soon as I the LPK, silver solder and Branson comp arrive I can get this rifle up and shooting. I'll not be buying a folding sight tower/gas block for several months due yo having to pay for family vacations this summer.
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Posted: 6/25/2010 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By WayneG: Originally Posted By Firefightinlv: How tight is the FH attached do you tourqe it down then weld the solder or can you heat the solder and when it runs then tighten it up? Tighten FH on normally, then apply heat and look for good solder flow at the joint between the barrel and the FH. The proper material is a solder paste with the required silver content and melting point, which you apply to the threads on the barrel first, then screw down the FH and heat until flow. I'm buying a Primary Weapon Systems SM556 for a 14.5 BCM middy and I'm planning on soldering it on there, so I want to make sure I'm getting everything exactly right. The comp comes with a shim kit, similar to a peel washer I assume. The steps I'm planning on taking are: 1. Clean barrel threads and comp. 2. Figure out what shims I need using a guess, then trial and error adjustment. Hand tightening the comp each time until I have the right shim amount. 3. Silver paste on barrel threads only. 4. Heat Stop to 1/8" from end of barrel. 5. Chalk on last part of barrel and comp 6. Hand tighten comp 7. Heat as instructed until solder flows at the joint. Sound good? |
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Posted: 6/25/2010 4:55:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: Yes, that's it! Just make sure you use the appropriate solder. Some don't use the chalk, it works for me in preventing any of the solder that flows from adhering to the exposed barrel or the surface of the comp. YMMV.Originally Posted By WayneG: Originally Posted By Firefightinlv: How tight is the FH attached do you tourqe it down then weld the solder or can you heat the solder and when it runs then tighten it up? Tighten FH on normally, then apply heat and look for good solder flow at the joint between the barrel and the FH. The proper material is a solder paste with the required silver content and melting point, which you apply to the threads on the barrel first, then screw down the FH and heat until flow. I'm buying a Primary Weapon Systems SM556 for a 14.5 BCM middy and I'm planning on soldering it on there, so I want to make sure I'm getting everything exactly right. The comp comes with a shim kit, similar to a peel washer I assume. The steps I'm planning on taking are: 1. Clean barrel threads and comp. 2. Figure out what shims I need using a guess, then trial and error adjustment. Hand tightening the comp each time until I have the right shim amount. 3. Silver paste on barrel threads only. 4. Heat Stop to 1/8" from end of barrel. 5. Chalk on last part of barrel and comp 6. Hand tighten comp 7. Heat as instructed until solder flows at the joint. Sound good? |
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Posted: 6/25/2010 6:11:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Gonna order these:
STL 1205 Silver Braze and Heat Stop™ which were linked earlier in the thread. For chalk, can I use regular old blackboard-type chalk, powdered, or climbers chalk, or what? |
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Posted: 6/29/2010 2:32:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Originally Posted By hokeyplyr48: Should the barrel be level, muzzle up, muzzle down? And you put the solder/flux paste on the threads, screw the flash hider on then do the heating so it melts inside the flash hider right? Sorry for the dumb questions, just haven't done any soldering before. I'm curious on this as well. I would think level or muzzle up. The only problem I can think of with muzzle up is that if you use too much paste and get flow to come out of the threads and into the barrel. |
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Posted: 6/29/2010 7:41:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: Any chalk will work.Gonna order these: STL 1205 Silver Braze and Heat Stop™ which were linked earlier in the thread. For chalk, can I use regular old blackboard-type chalk, powdered, or climbers chalk, or what? |
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Posted: 6/29/2010 7:42:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: I do it with the barrel on a level. If done properly the solder will be drawn in with a "wicking" action as it flows between the threads.Originally Posted By hokeyplyr48: Should the barrel be level, muzzle up, muzzle down? And you put the solder/flux paste on the threads, screw the flash hider on then do the heating so it melts inside the flash hider right? Sorry for the dumb questions, just haven't done any soldering before. I'm curious on this as well. I would think level or muzzle up. The only problem I can think of with muzzle up is that if you use too much paste and get flow to come out of the threads and into the barrel. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2010 10:49:36 PM EDT
[#19]
I dont recall seeing this anywhere in the thread, but should the barrel be removed before doing this or is it ok to leave it in the receiver?
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Posted: 7/1/2010 12:01:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WayneG]
[#20]
Originally Posted By RB211: No need to remove the barrel.I dont recall seeing this anywhere in the thread, but should the barrel be removed before doing this or is it ok to leave it in the receiver? ETA- Just noticed your post count, welcome to the site! |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2010 12:29:51 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks WayneG - I'm going to SS a vortex on next week.
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Posted: 7/1/2010 8:36:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By RB211: Thanks WayneG - I'm going to SS a vortex on next week. Just follow the guidance in this thread and you'll do great. It really isn't rocket science or brain surgery. Take your time and use the correct procedures and tools. Post pic when you are done! |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2010 1:41:59 PM EDT
[#23]
It looks to be extremely easy. Hopefully I will be able to get it done by mid-next week. Have to wait for everything to get here....... I hate waiting
Pics to come! |
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Posted: 7/4/2010 12:57:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Well, my upper, PWS SM556, Heat Stop, and Silver Braze arrive on Tuesday so either Tuesday or Wednesday I should have this done.
I looked up some info on MAPP gas and it seems that it's pretty much gone as of 2008. I was able to get a Bernzomatic OX2550KC kit. It has a Oxygen tank and a "Fat Boy Max Power Propylene Fuel Cylinder". It seems Propylene burns a little lower than MAPP did, but it's still supposed to be 3600°F. Anyone else tried this kit or a similar one? |
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Posted: 7/4/2010 5:25:14 AM EDT
[#25]
I tried this using Hylocool and it charred the surface of the barrel that was being SS'ed. There's still some residue left on it; I'm sure it would come off with a brass brush.
One question, I've heard conflicting things from people and I want to get it straight. When you SS a FH on, are you supposed to use rapid, even heating? Or gradual, even heating? I've heard to heat it, then let it cool a bit, then heat again, and cool a bit. Can I just crank the torch at 100% evenly around the FH until the solder melts? Second, can you let it cool down right after the SS melts? I've heard you have to (again) heat, then cool a little, then heat again, then cool a little. What say you? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2010 4:20:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Ordered from here:
Otto Frei Silver Solder Paste, 56%Ag, 1200*F - $12.41 Heat Shield 5000*F - $13.60 -or- Kool Jool - $8.10 Never heard of the Kool Jool before. It is used to protect stones when brazing w/ jewelry. I'm going to give it a go, and if it doesn't work, use a heat wrap instead. |
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Posted: 7/8/2010 9:32:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Good find but I strongly recommend you use a heat soak material made for metals vice something used to prevent discoloration of stone.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2010 9:39:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rawpower]
[#28]
Originally Posted By WayneG:
Good find but I strongly recommend you use a heat soak material made for metals vice something used to prevent discoloration of stone. Ok. I'll give the Kool Jool a few tests on some other SS and CS components first. If its efficacy is even remotely questionable, I won't be using it on my Noveske. ETA: by "components", I don't mean rifle components. They will be left overs in the shop... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2010 9:40:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rawpower]
[#29]
oops
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Posted: 7/11/2010 7:21:05 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By Anto:
I tried this using Hylocool and it charred the surface of the barrel that was being SS'ed. There's still some residue left on it; I'm sure it would come off with a brass brush. One question, I've heard conflicting things from people and I want to get it straight. When you SS a FH on, are you supposed to use rapid, even heating? Or gradual, even heating? I've heard to heat it, then let it cool a bit, then heat again, and cool a bit. Can I just crank the torch at 100% evenly around the FH until the solder melts? Second, can you let it cool down right after the SS melts? I've heard you have to (again) heat, then cool a little, then heat again, then cool a little. What say you? Anyone know? |
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Posted: 7/11/2010 11:09:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Anto: Can I just crank the torch at 100% evenly around the FH until the solderOriginally Posted By Anto: I tried this using Hylocool and it charred the surface of the barrel that was being SS'ed. There's still some residue left on it; I'm sure it would come off with a brass brush. One question, I've heard conflicting things from people and I want to get it straight. When you SS a FH on, are you supposed to use rapid, even heating? Or gradual, even heating? I've heard to heat it, then let it cool a bit, then heat again, and cool a bit. Can I just crank the torch at 100% evenly around the FH until the solder melts? Second, can you let it cool down right after the SS melts? I've heard you have to (again) heat, then cool a little, then heat again, then cool a little. What say you? Anyone know? melts? Yes. can you let it cool down right after the SS melts? Yes. Don't get fancy here. Heat until flow, then remove heat. Do not quench the metal after removing the heat, just let it sit until cool. |
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Posted: 7/12/2010 12:28:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Well, I did mine. I think I got the SM556 a little too hot and it discolored a bit. Not really worried about that. I am NOT fond of Heat Stop at all. Within seconds of applying heat, all the heatstop I put on dried up, cracked and flaked off. wtf?
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Posted: 7/12/2010 1:05:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: Well, I did mine. I think I got the SM556 a little too hot and it discolored a bit. Not really worried about that. I am NOT fond of Heat Stop at all. Within seconds of applying heat, all the heatstop I put on dried up, cracked and flaked off. wtf? That's what it's supposed to do. It's burns off as it absorbs the heat from the metal. Put some CLP on the discolored area. Post pics. |
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Posted: 7/12/2010 1:32:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sessrumnir]
[#34]
Originally Posted By WayneG: I mean it ALL came off within seconds. I think I either put on too much or too little. I'll post some pics tomorrow when I can get a camera other than my shitty cell phone. I've got the area coated w/ CLP right now. Gonna get it "soak" a bit.Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: Well, I did mine. I think I got the SM556 a little too hot and it discolored a bit. Not really worried about that. I am NOT fond of Heat Stop at all. Within seconds of applying heat, all the heatstop I put on dried up, cracked and flaked off. wtf? That's what it's supposed to do. It's burns off as it absorbs the heat from the metal. Put some CLP on the discolored area. Post pics. Edit: adding pic. You can see the discoloration. I think some of it is just burnt on Heat Stop.  |
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Posted: 7/12/2010 12:00:16 PM EDT
[#35]
You need to use a lot of Heat Stop. if it all charred right away, you didn't put on enough. That said, some fine steel wool and clp should clean that up. |
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Posted: 7/12/2010 12:41:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Hmm. I had gobs of the stuff.
#0000 steel wool ok? Won't hurt the finish? |
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Posted: 7/12/2010 1:40:01 PM EDT
[#37]
Originally Posted By Sessrumnir: Hmm. I had gobs of the stuff. #0000 steel wool ok? Won't hurt the finish? With Heat Stop, the bigger the glob the better the job. When I put on a FH, mine chars about 60-70% up the barrel. 0000 should work fine, rub lightly, don't go crazy, just rub in the CLP. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2010 7:58:55 PM EDT
[#38]
I finally finished mine.
It didn't exactly go as smoothly as I hoped, but in the end, I'm glad I did it. First, and this is probably because I wasn't putting enough heat on it (I don't have the fanciest of mapp torches) I did get discoloration. I was a bit surprised by this, I had a TON of the heat paste on it. 
Coating the barrel with oil hid it pretty well, 
but as anal as I am, I wasn't going to let that slide. I have been wanting to play around with either Duracoat or Cerakote. I had other blemishes on the barrel, so Cerakote it is. 
Kind of a crappy picture, but it came out perfectly. I liked it so much I did my AK the next day. Overall, I am very satisfied with the way I did it, and would do it again (with a better torch though....) |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2010 12:15:52 PM EDT
[#39]
thanks for this informative SS method. Special thanks to those who posted pictures.
I'm thinking of doing this SS to my Stainless Steel barrel I just got from Rainier Arms (14.5" middy). And have VLTOR VC-1 FH for permanent install. If anyone has done this, please let show me some pictures of work samples. thank you in advance |
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IRQ
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Posted: 9/6/2010 3:55:27 PM EDT
[#40]
I'll be trying this on my first AR build when I get home from Iraq. Going with a 14.5" Black Hole mid-length barrel and PWS brake. I'll make sure to post pics up of this, along with the rest of the build. I'm thinking of trying this stuff for a thermal barrier. http://www.eastwood.com/coldshield-thermal-paste.html Seems like it might hold up better than some of the gels out there. It costs a bit more, but I'll be able to use it for body work on my vehicles too. 32oz should do a decent amount of work.
Glad I came across the site! |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2010 8:59:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Any advice for how to tell when it is done if you are attaching a reflex style suppressor mount as you cannot see the joint between the barrel and F/S near the threads?
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Posted: 10/27/2010 10:11:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By stefbo: Any advice for how to tell when it is done if you are attaching a reflex style suppressor mount as you cannot see the joint between the barrel and F/S near the threads? That's tough, only way I think you can verify is to put a wrench to it and see if you can spin if off. If you can, you had a bad solder joint, try again, making sure you are using the right solder in the correct amount. The thing that many folks don't get is the less solder you use, the stronger the joint. Don't glob it on, you have to use just enough to get good flow and makes the joint permanent. Don't forget prep is just as important. Degrease the work area totally, you want to remove as much contaminate as possible prior to applying your solder. Hope this helps. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/14/2010 10:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lluong222]
[#43]
Lots of good information here, but I am wondering where do I get the pin and what size?
I have a Rainier Arms XTC(will this meet the required 16" barrel length?) from AimSurplus.com and it has a pre drilled hole to make it easier for me. What size drill bit should I use to drill in and what kind of pin do I stick in there before I weld it shut? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2010 9:40:13 PM EDT
[#44]
Tag.
Because I can. 
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Posted: 1/1/2011 7:03:47 PM EDT
[#45]
I'm silver soldering on an AAC Muzzle Brake (no space to pin/weld) and I followed the advice that "less is more" and failed to get the device to stick... but the timing shims are now solidly attached to the barrel
 I'm gonna go the opposite route and attach gobs of silver solder paste for my next attempt |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/1/2011 8:18:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Cleaning the threads of the muzzle device as well as the barrel, to be sure that there is no debris, residue and oils is very important!
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Posted: 1/2/2011 2:35:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By INTrooper4255: Cleaning the threads of the muzzle device as well as the barrel, to be sure that there is no debris, residue and oils is very important! Yeah, i used a bunch of Acetone, q-tips, etc etc. Anyway, to update everyone, all I did was slathering on a healthy amount of silver solder paste (technically, silver "brazing" paste) and then heated up the the muzzle device, and a little bit of the barrel until it was red hot. Took about 5-7 minutes with a Benzomatic kit (http://www.bernzomatic.com/products/kits/torch-kits.aspx?prodid=TS8000ZKCSM). My previous attempts failed because I didn't get the muzzle device hot enough, I didn't get the barrel hot as well, I didn't use enough silver solder paste. Once I figured out I needed to get the barrel hot as well as the muzzle device, and used enough silver solder (I actually had to wipe some off) attachment was successful. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/15/2011 3:22:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Do you have to use 56% or could it be a higher silver rating 65%? the 65% has a melting rate of 1325 deg. I only ask because I find it cheaper to but this silver solder wire.
Does anyone have a link to where it states 56%? i have googled with no luck. Originally Posted By Aifwikir:
Everyone is getting hung up on "1100 degree" silver solder. If you read the ATF reg it states " 56% silver content, 1100 degree Silver Solder" . I'd hate to see someone go to jail because they did everything right but used the wrong percentage of silver content. 'Fusion' from Brownells has the correct %age of silver content. :D Aif PS: I silver solder all my Flash Hiders. |
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Posted: 1/16/2011 1:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PursuitSS]
[#49]
I silver soldered an AAC 51 tooth Blackout onto my barrel. I cleaned the threads using a mild acid to remove the parkerizing, then wiped the threads with acetone.
I used the silver solder paste sold by Brownells. |
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Posted: 1/20/2011 9:26:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Are "propane torches" able to also use mapp gas (or whatever the newer stuff is on the market)?
I ask, because the local Harbor Freight has inexpensive "propane torches". Much cheaper than the Benzomatics at Home Depot... These are, of course, cheap chinese manufacture, and come with no information regarding their comaptiblity with other gas bottles. |
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