I had noticed that there was a thread here a few days ago that showed a picture of an ammo box that has been seen on the net at various gun & ammo forums.  It's the specialty pistol-caliber collection box that originated from a guy named "Al William" (that was his screen name anyway).  Al was a guy from Spokane, WA, and I had actually bought this specialty ammo collection from him about 18 months ago.  My name is Matt, and I am a member of the International Ammunition Association (IAA), by this same screen name, and I sort of knew Al.  I specialize in collecting special-purpose pistol-caliber ammo especially armor piercing / metal piercing ammo.  I have written a book on pistol caliber AP as well.  The thread that showed the ammo box photo is now locked for some reason as of a few days ago, but for your enjoyment I can tell you all what these cartridges were exactly, and win whatever prize was mentioned to whomever could guess them ;-) .  Here is the photo:


And the cartridge are, from left to right... ahem...

Top row:  PMC Ultramag "38J" tubular 38spl,   Personal Protection Systems (PPS) "ZC38" Teflon coated Aluminum wadcutter 38spl,   Winchester/Western "38S5P" metal piercing 38spl,   Van Ripper pointed lead "penetrator" (an Arcane knock-off made of lead, not really AP) 38spl,   THV 38spl, KTW 38spl with typical 357mag KTW steel projectile loaded,   Corbon DPX 38spl,   Original first edition Hydra Shok 38spl (old school!),   Mesko "Hornet" (less lethal bean bag load from Poland) 38spl,   "Thunderzap" plastic Annular nose solid base (ANSB) 38spl

2nd row:  Green Elite frangible 38spl,   unknown (I didn't get this one in the box he sent me),   Signature Products "Razor ammo" 38spl,   RBCD "Performance Plus" 38spl,   Omnishock 38spl (inverted wadcutter with a steel screw insert & resin cap),   Remington multiball (2 balls) 38spl,   Hydrashock "Hunter" 38spl,   American Ballistics (ABC) "XAL" (aluminum tunnel point) 38spl,   American Ballistics (ABC) "CV2" (copper tunnel point) 38spl,   unknown soft point tracer 38spl  

3rd row:  Kawser "turbo grabber" (resin sawtooth cap) .45acp,   modified D&D Omega Star (by FX Labs) .45acp,   Village Metalworks "Safe Stop" .45acp,   XM261 experimental high-density shot .45acp,   BBM "Hardcap Shotshell" .45acp,   Personal Protection Systems (PPS) "MMC" .45acp,   Magsafe "Agent" .45acp,   Magsafe "Defender" .45acp,   FXLabs "X-bullet" (function = ??) .45acp,   FXLabs "flashbang exploder" .45acp

4th row:  Arcane (original French solid copper penetrator) .45acp,   Remington "Hi-Way Master" metal penetrating .45acp,   FXLabs "Unicorn" penetrator .45acp,   Rhino replacement parts "AP Penetraor" (actually lead bullet, and is fake AP) .45acp,   American Ballistics (ABC) monolithic steel penetrator .45acp,   "SCMITR" saboted steel dart penetrator .45acp,   Guilford Engineering Aossicates (GEA) tubular "Cyclone" (same stuff that the ATF & FBI Swat used at Waco TX in 9mm version) .45acp,    Velet exploder .45acp,   Exammo exploder .45acp,   Velex exploder .45acp

5th row:  New Generation Ammunition (NGA South African) "Sentry" .40S&W,   Kawser "Pin Grabber" .40S&W,   Magsafe "Defender" .40S&W,  Glaser (silver) "Safety Slug" .40S&W,   Glaser (blue) "Safety Slug" .40S&W,   Magsafe "Agent" .40S&W,   FXLabs exploder .40S&W,   FXLabs "CCC" booby-trap bullet (explodes with PETN core when fired - ....Crazy right?... I know!!) .40S&W,   FXLabs "X-bullet" (function = ?) .40S&W,   Incendiary-Tracer .40S&W

6th row:  Corbon DPX .40S&W,   Aguila "IQ" .40S&W,   Corbon +P premium .40S&W,   Winchester "Black Talon" .40S&W,   Winchester "Ranger SXT" .40S&W,   Velex exploder .40S&W,   Remington "Golden Saber" .40S&W,   PMC "Starfire" .40S&W,   Federal Hydra Shok .40S&W,   Speer "Gold Dot" .40S&W

7th row:   KTW armor piercing 9mm,   THV 9mm,  "ALPHA" experimental saboted penetrator 9mm,   Personal Protection Systems (PPS) "MAP" 9mm,   German WWII "08mE" iron-core 9mm,  Personal Protection Systems (PPS) "MPP" .380acp,   American Ballistic (ABC) "CV2" copper tunnel point 9mm,   unknown (didn't get this one from Al),  Geco "Blitz Action Trauma" (BAT) 9mm,   DAG "Action-3" 9mm

8th row:  Lapua "Cepp-super" expanding FMJ 9mm,   Federal "EFMJ" (early version) 9mm,   Namm ammo (from Ammotogo.com) skyburst tracer 9mm,   Hi-Vel exploder 9mm,   Hi-Vel incendiary 9mm,   CCI (Blount) M939 incendiary tracer contract load (ranging simulator for AT4 rocket launcher) 9mm,   FXLabs "multi punch" (steel rods core) 9mm,   Magsafe "Agent" 9mm,   Exammo exploder 9mm,   "Longbow" frangible 9mm

9th row:  ExtremeShock "Fang Face" 9mm,   Kawser "Pin Grabber" 9mm,   Omnishock 9mm,   Powerplus "Beehive" (prefragmented core) 9mm,   Magsafe experimental 9mm,   Israeli riot-control resin / core-shot 9mm,   Shell X-Ploder (Bob Shell) 9mm,   ExtremeShock "Airfreedom" or "Ranger-T" 9mm,   Sinterfire frangible 9mm,   DAG plastic trainer 9mm

10th row:   KTW armor piercing .32acp,   Magsafe "Defender" .32acp,   RBCD "Performance Plus" .32acp,   Personal Prtection Systems (PPS) "MTT" .32acp,   National Cartridge exploder .32acp,   KTW armor piercing .25acp,   wax bullet .25acp,   Personal Protection Systems (PPS) "MSC" brass version (penetrator) .25acp,   Magsafe "Defender" .25acp,   Glaser blue "Safety Slug" .25acp.

Phheww.....

There are a few hundred other types of bizarre specialty ammo out there, and I have many of them.  I'm writing a new reference book now about all of these specialty pistol-caliber ammo types that should be done in 12 months.

Excellent first post. Welcome aboard.

Nice first post indeed!

Pretty interesting stuff....I think it would be cool to have a collection of oddball ammunition.  If nothing else for a conversation piece.

Sure, add it to the FAQ.  I have other boxes of oddball pistol ammo just like that one that I should post pics of along with description keys on this thread as well.  Tonight maybe...

+1000

Zhukov - you ask about specialty rifle ammo, and I do have many pictures and items, but not enough time at the moment to show / explain much.  I will point out that there is a current mail / phone / email auction going on at Engel's Collectibles Engel's  that does have allot of really unique rifle ammo.  He actually has a .308 Pacific-Technica manufactured D.U.D.S. (Depleted Uranium Discarding Sabot) cartridge listed for sale which has a depleted Uranium monolithic penetrator inside a plastic 4-segment sabot.  This is actually the most powerful small arms penetrator ever made and is very rare (experimental only).  There are only about 50 of them out there in the world for collectors presently, and they go for around $150 and upwards.  It is item #148 on page 12.  Lots of other cool 7.62x39 ammo, and a cool 9x39 penetrator cartridge also.  In the meantime I'll leave you all with some more eye candy with a reference chart that I made which is a sampling of some of the better-known pistol-caliber penetrator cartridges that I collect:


Here is the best cartridge show in the U.S. (SLICS) where I collect much of my ammo:

Here was my display there this past April on pistol-caliber AP ammo (won award for most educational):


Here is some of the specialty pistol ammo that I collected at the show:




Here is the book I wrote:



A box of 9mm special-purpose ammo that I have:


Me posing with the IAA president at last year's SLICS, his name is Pepper Burruss and he is also the head trainer for the Green Bay Packers (how cool?) letting me wear his 1997 Superbowl & NFC championship rings for the photo:

Here's a great gadget cartridge in 9mm: the "C2E", which was an experimental load - from Fiocchi maybe?  who knows....  This one is a case of over-thinking the problem as far as stopping power & penetration in the same projectile.  The idea (as far as anyone at the IAA can tell), is that the brass pusher would be forced down upon impact, thus spreading the disc at the bottom causing a rearward expansion, whilst the tip would remain straight and solid for enhanced solid copped penetration.  The spring was just to hold the brass pin in place during storage or carry:

Welcome sir, and thank you for such a great 1st posting!

Damn cool stuff you have there. I had no idea.

Had no idea there were so many different types of bullets out there.


Welcome to the forum.

+1

I know about the KTW rounds, and I have some in .45ACP. I had no idea they came in .44 Magnum and Special.

Have you ever shot any of this stuff or is it all too rare to do so?

Vanilla Gorilla - These are all of the common calibers available from KTW:
 
The .44 Automag was quite rare, and there was also a few oddball experimentals that never saw commercial production.  Those rare calibers were the .22 Pokey (a necked-down .25acp with .22 bullet), the.350 Remington Magnum, .35 Remington, and .308 Winchester.  There are also several ogive variations and some case metal variations of the above cartridges, so there is plenty of collector variety even within one caliber.

Matt the Hokie - I have shot some of the more typical commercially available stuff, but none of the super-rare stuff.  Partly because they cost too much to shoot and I only have 1 or 2 of some cartridges, and partly because some of these crazy cartridges are +P+.

Fantastic information, thank you for taking the time to type it all out and share.

Very cool. Just curious but with such an arcane subject would you sell many books?

Captainpooby - so far I've sold a few dozen, mostly to other cartridge collectors who are in the International Ammunition Association.  I'm going to have my own ammo collector site up sometime this year, and It will have a link to buy the book through Lulu.com (on-demand publisher) which lists books through Amazon.  Once I do that and connect it with all the pertinent keywords associated with pistol AP ammo, hopefully I will sell a bunch more.  PM me for purchase data since I don't want to come off like a salesman in a non commercial thread/folder where that kind of talk doesn't belong.  Thanks!

Something that is up my alley as far as unique projectiles goes:  I've recently noticed that a few sites have started to list the EMB (enhanced mono Bloc) rd as offered by Fiocchi as part of their Extrema line.  This rd was originally designed and offered by Hirtenberger, but now it's Fiocchi.  I had been keeping an eye on MidwayUSA for months as they had been showing the Fiocchi EMB as being on order and being part of the Tundra line, but that was scrapped and now a few sites have it listed as part of the Extrema line (includes Hornady XTP type loads).  Best I could find was $22.00 at Tactical gun armory's site: http://www.tacticalgunarmory.com/Fiocchi_9EMB_9MM_100_EMB_50_10_9EMB_p/63057.htm

http://www.afte.org/forum/smf1/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1618.0;attach=2789;image

http://www.amd.co.at/ids/image-cache/waffen/munition/fiocchi_emb_expanded_disp1024.jpg

I want to make sure I am not violating any rules as far as trying to sell something (I don't know how that works in the forum if there's a special folder?) but in the interest of staying pertinent to this very particularly unique topic thread -  I did want to point out that there is some of the gadgety & rare pistol ammo as shown in this thread that is now available on Gunboker.  Just search for 9mm AP or search for the user name Shotptrdj to find the listings.  Many people here have asked me about buying stuff and from other forums as well, so I assembled some small lots to that end.  If this is a no-no as far as being wrong folder, please let me know.

Stuff like:
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/187203000/187203628/pix1365051890.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/187203000/187203628/pix1365051718.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/187696000/187696506/pix1688555859.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/187695000/187695432/pix1610327125.jpg

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/187175000/187175784/pix1356219640.jpg

Thanks,
Matt

DPMMN - that 9mm British ammo is collectible, but it's not terribly rare.  You certainly don't see it outside of online auctions, or gun/cartridge shows though very often.  It was produced mostly for the STEN SMG that was used in WWII by British commandos.

very cool.  I've seen that photo many times and wondered about it.

Wow! Awesome post, and the first one at that!

ETA- I see that I'm late on noticing this thread. It was started in June.

Great thread!

very cool