User Panel
Looks good. I have a set of suspenders. I need to get a belt and some pouches and figure out a set up.
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Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof. After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up.
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof. After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up. View Quote |
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Originally Posted By lew:
ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
Outside of the plastic buckles that came on the later belts, and the pinch-tabs on the M16 pouches ... ALICE gear is pretty bomb proof. After many years of experimenting with tons of different kinds of gear (thousands of dollars worth) .... I often wonder why I didnt' stay with my $20 ALICE set up. But yeah, some of the modern stuff is pretty sweet. Lots of creative ideas not constrained by government specs. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By lew: ALICE gear is great; modern gear is much greater. View Quote The gear I use at the range is basically a slightly modified / updated [1000D cordura, MOLLE, padded, etc) version of the standard 1980's infantryman's ALICE set up. No canteens, because I can fit a Nalgene in the utility pouch. + MOLLE Belt & Suspenders LEFT TO RIGHT + Single HG Pouch + Double Rifle Shingle + Double Rifle Pouch + Utility Pouch + Double Rifle Pouch + Knife + Holster + First Aid Pouch Works great for my civilian uses. |
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Knife sheath has a pouch that holds a 2nd handgun mag.
Personally, I often consider ditching the handgun in favor of 2 or 3 more rifle mags, but have the holster so I leave it on the belt. |
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Attached File
My Harness: USGI belt and Y harness. Blackhawk Belt pad. USGI canteen pouches with cups and 1 stove, USGI triple mag pouches X2 USGI compass pouch, Diamondback Tactical dump pouch (with soft armor) serving as a buttpack. Spec Plus Tanto held to the harness with Ranger Bands cut from an innertube. Got a little bit of Alice gear left, but I think I'm going to ditch the last of it. Alice was good, but in many cases Gen1 molle is better. |
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Author of, "The Spartan's Last March," available on Amazon.
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I'm feeling nostalgic here: Anyone know where to get a set- 2x AR mag pouches, compass pouch, buttpack, 2x canteen pouches, buttpack, belt, suspenders ("H" or"Y")- LC2 set for cheap?
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Originally Posted By lew:
I'm feeling nostalgic here: Anyone know where to get a set- 2x AR mag pouches, compass pouch, buttpack, 2x canteen pouches, buttpack, belt, suspenders ("H" or"Y")- LC2 set for cheap? View Quote |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Good call, bigstick. Nice rigs, too.
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll.
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I decided to try a new arrangement with my stuff and I like it better. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975906582_d134a65ee8_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975915208_9cd0b2923f_b.jpg I also have a "battle belt" setup using pouches and stuff on-hand. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46820080985_5a8eeb542a_b.jpg And with a bayonet for fun. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40770065473_df3868d696_b.jpg View Quote There are probably better flash suppressors available nowadays, compared to when I performed my long-ago comparison with all the then-available flash suppressors from DSArms. At that point, I was testing for accuracy, and not for flash suppression. OTOH, other flash suppressors probably entail giving up the bayonet. Your call on that aspect. I am satisfied with my current rig (Long BCD+SA Device) but if I opted for a "medium weight" barrel, for enhanced accuracy at longer ranges, I would opt for an A2-style flash suppressor specifically intended for a .308 rifle. Beware of re-worked A2 5.56 flash suppressors--For example, the currently-offered "A2-style" FS offered by DSArms looks to me like a re-worked 5.56 FS. Look closely, and you can see so. A purpose-made .308 A2 FS will be longer than a 5.56 FS--has to be, on account of the increased volume of gasses expelled from the muzzle. YMMV. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. View Quote |
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Originally Posted By lew:
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By raf:
Ah, Yes, Belgian Combo Device, and tube-handle bayonet. Similar to my FAL set-up. Good choice, accuracy-wise; it did well in my tests done long ago, posted both here and at Falfiles. If it is still available, the South African compensator device that slipped over the BCD is also a considerable accuracy-enhancer. Best accuracy results in my personal, semi-scientific teats were with BCD and SA slip-over device. Full-weight STOLL was a close second, but much longer, so I sent with the BCD, naturally. To sum up, the more weight (mass) at the end of the FAL military-style barrel, the better the accuracy. The SA device (added mass) also had the benefit of being a compensator in itself, and re-directed muzzle blast perfectly for a right-handed shooter. It was probably intended for Full-auto fire, but works well in semi-auto, whilst adding useful mass (accuracy enhancement) to the OEM FAL barrel. I'd use it during the daytime, as I suspect it enhanced muzzle flash, as compared to the bare BCD. There are probably better flash suppressors available nowadays, compared to when I performed my long-ago comparison with all the then-available flash suppressors from DSArms. At that point, I was testing for accuracy, and not for flash suppression. OTOH, other flash suppressors probably entail giving up the bayonet. Your call on that aspect. I am satisfied with my current rig (Long BCD+SA Device) but if I opted for a "medium weight" barrel, for enhanced accuracy at longer ranges, I would opt for an A2-style flash suppressor specifically intended for a .308 rifle. Beware of re-worked A2 5.56 flash suppressors--For example, the currently-offered "A2-style" FS offered by DSArms looks to me like a re-worked 5.56 FS. Look closely, and you can see so. A purpose-made .308 A2 FS will be longer than a 5.56 FS--has to be, on account of the increased volume of gasses expelled from the muzzle. YMMV. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
I decided to try a new arrangement with my stuff and I like it better. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975906582_d134a65ee8_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47975915208_9cd0b2923f_b.jpg I also have a "battle belt" setup using pouches and stuff on-hand. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46820080985_5a8eeb542a_b.jpg And with a bayonet for fun. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40770065473_df3868d696_b.jpg There are probably better flash suppressors available nowadays, compared to when I performed my long-ago comparison with all the then-available flash suppressors from DSArms. At that point, I was testing for accuracy, and not for flash suppression. OTOH, other flash suppressors probably entail giving up the bayonet. Your call on that aspect. I am satisfied with my current rig (Long BCD+SA Device) but if I opted for a "medium weight" barrel, for enhanced accuracy at longer ranges, I would opt for an A2-style flash suppressor specifically intended for a .308 rifle. Beware of re-worked A2 5.56 flash suppressors--For example, the currently-offered "A2-style" FS offered by DSArms looks to me like a re-worked 5.56 FS. Look closely, and you can see so. A purpose-made .308 A2 FS will be longer than a 5.56 FS--has to be, on account of the increased volume of gasses expelled from the muzzle. YMMV. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll. The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. View Quote Also, I have a MALICE clip for a MOLLE pouch, and it does not fit on any of my gear that uses the slide keepers. I tried and did not like the methods of using zip ties or paracord as alternatives. What I like about the slide keepers is that they keep pouches from freely sliding around on the belt and allow for quick and easy changes to configuration (I've used wire hangers to the same effect; they also can allow for two pouches to be attached in the same belt space if the pouch attached to the belt has a tab with the grommets on the bottom). The only ones that cause any discomfort or issue are the two on the buttpack. IMO it works much better relative to the latest stuff (especially equivalent modern stuff, like modern belts and suspenders) than a Model T does relative to the latest automobiles. I think it'll lose its value for those who don't already have the gear once prices become universally collector-level prices. Affordability while maintaining utility is what makes it attractive for someone like me. Once the prices due to collectability start to approach modern gear prices, you might as well just get the modern gear unless the older item in question is something that lacks a suitable modern equivalent. If I had the money I'd probably have all new production or bespoke gear (some stuff I want, like my preferred type of magazine pouches, aren't really made), but it would probably still be belt-and-suspenders. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The cotton stuff works fine if you're not in some hot and humid environment and you're only using a couple of items with a set of gear (most of my time is spent in dry climates). Nylon is better, but when you're on a budget, you get what you can. I paid something like $5 for the cotton butt pack. I'm not sure I would be getting a whole lot of benefit by getting a new nylon version, which I'm sure would cost a lot more, as much as I'd like one with some changes from the original (and surplus nylon ones seem to be rare and collectible in any condition). Also, I have a MALICE clip for a MOLLE pouch, and it does not fit on any of my gear that uses the slide keepers. I tried and did not like the methods of using zip ties or paracord as alternatives. What I like about the slide keepers is that they keep pouches from freely sliding around on the belt and allow for quick and easy changes to configuration (I've used wire hangers to the same effect; they also can allow for two pouches to be attached in the same belt space if the pouch attached to the belt has a tab with the grommets on the bottom). The only ones that cause any discomfort or issue are the two on the buttpack. IMO it works much better relative to the latest stuff (especially equivalent modern stuff, like modern belts and suspenders) than a Model T does relative to the latest automobiles. I think it'll lose its value for those who don't already have the gear once prices become universally collector-level prices. Affordability while maintaining utility is what makes it attractive for someone like me. Once the prices due to collectability start to approach modern gear prices, you might as well just get the modern gear unless the older item in question is something that lacks a suitable modern equivalent. If I had the money I'd probably have all new production or bespoke gear (some stuff I want, like my preferred type of magazine pouches, aren't really made), but it would probably still be belt-and-suspenders. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll. The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. Also, I have a MALICE clip for a MOLLE pouch, and it does not fit on any of my gear that uses the slide keepers. I tried and did not like the methods of using zip ties or paracord as alternatives. What I like about the slide keepers is that they keep pouches from freely sliding around on the belt and allow for quick and easy changes to configuration (I've used wire hangers to the same effect; they also can allow for two pouches to be attached in the same belt space if the pouch attached to the belt has a tab with the grommets on the bottom). The only ones that cause any discomfort or issue are the two on the buttpack. IMO it works much better relative to the latest stuff (especially equivalent modern stuff, like modern belts and suspenders) than a Model T does relative to the latest automobiles. I think it'll lose its value for those who don't already have the gear once prices become universally collector-level prices. Affordability while maintaining utility is what makes it attractive for someone like me. Once the prices due to collectability start to approach modern gear prices, you might as well just get the modern gear unless the older item in question is something that lacks a suitable modern equivalent. If I had the money I'd probably have all new production or bespoke gear (some stuff I want, like my preferred type of magazine pouches, aren't really made), but it would probably still be belt-and-suspenders. Then you can get rid of the ALICE clips, and use SHORT MALICE clips for your ALICE stuff. The SHORT MALIE clips were specifically made for ALICE gear; you need to use the correct slot on the tab to get a good fit with the SHORT MALICE clips. MUCH more comfortable (and a tinch less weight) than any un-padded pistol belt, BTDT. For stuff that uses wire hangars, there are some MOLLE adaptors that have the metal grommets for hanger-style items such as this: https://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Alice-Adaptor/dp/B005N3K05Y/ref=pd_day0_hl_200_5/132-8357810-0970304?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005N3K05Y&pd_rd_r=1616900a-84e7-11e9-a9ce-814cf5dd9e62&pd_rd_w=ADUzG&pd_rd_wg=0xIod&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT&psc=1&refRID=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT Shop around; not suggesting any particular vendor, although Old Grouch is a member/Dealer here, IIRC. God luck; I've updated a fair amount of ALICE gear over the years, so I know it can be done. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By lew:
Having owned both Aussie and US M56 gear, they're both put to shame by South Africa's Pattern 70 web gear. All are better-constructed, relatively-speaking, than British Pattern 58. I agree with your assessment on M56 gear: sell it while the selling is good and the items are in good (or better) condition. I still use my P70 gear from time-to-time, and it'll outlast me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable. One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured. Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear. I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter. YMMV. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By bigstick61:
The only M1956 stuff I have currently are the buttpack (M1961) and a couple of the "universal" ammo pouches, which are one of the few that will actually hold two BM-59 magazines comfortably (which is why I bought them); they also have my preferred closure method (never been sure what it's called, though). Neither are in collectible condition. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By bigstick61:
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf:
I've owned SA cotton canvas '58-based gear (Pattern 70), and it was some of the heaviest , stoutest, canvas I've ever seen. Well-made, but I wouldn't want to carry it when wet. The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable. One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured. Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear. I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter. YMMV. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By raf:
The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable. One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured. Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear. I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter. YMMV. I do have a P83 vest. It's great for carrying a lot of mags, but you're right: beyond that, there is no way for the user to configure it further. Older gear is awesome, but MOLLE gear has been a blessing. |
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll. The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. View Quote Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget. |
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@ me if you have questions about body armor, hearing protection, or tactical equipment in general.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
There's literally no reason for someone looking for gear to use to buy ALICE anymore unless there's some odd niche thing you need it for. ALICE is for collectors at this point, and I'd argue that it's been that way for at least 5 years now. It's done. Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll. The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget. I don't see where even the most dead-broke and die-hard ALICE user can't benefit from upgrading to USGI MOLLE gear. The two platforms were designed to be compatible; ALICE gear can be used on MOLLE platforms, for sure. The ALICE clips will work, but the lightweight MALICE fasteners are miles better than the old clips. I still use some very specific ALICE items, but the ALICE clips are long gone. To dedicated ALICE Users: Get yourself a MOLLE vest and/or belt, some LW MALICE clips for your ALICE pouches, and see what you think. . |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf:
I don't disagree with anything you've said, for those on a very tight budget. Allow me to make a suggestion: Ditch the ALICE pistol belt, and buy a decent, simple padded waist belt with a QD buckle, and PALS webbing on its' outer surface. Maybe something like this: https://store.oldgrouch.biz/uspamobesuse.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By raf:
I don't disagree with anything you've said, for those on a very tight budget. Allow me to make a suggestion: Ditch the ALICE pistol belt, and buy a decent, simple padded waist belt with a QD buckle, and PALS webbing on its' outer surface. Maybe something like this: https://store.oldgrouch.biz/uspamobesuse.html Then you can get rid of the ALICE clips, and use SHORT MALICE clips for your ALICE stuff. The SHORT MALIE clips were specifically made for ALICE gear; you need to use the correct slot on the tab to get a good fit with the SHORT MALICE clips. MUCH more comfortable (and a tinch less weight) than any un-padded pistol belt, BTDT. For stuff that uses wire hangars, there are some MOLLE adaptors that have the metal grommets for hanger-style items such as this: https://www.amazon.com/G-I-Military-MOLLE-Alice-Adaptor/dp/B005N3K05Y/ref=pd_day0_hl_200_5/132-8357810-0970304?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005N3K05Y&pd_rd_r=1616900a-84e7-11e9-a9ce-814cf5dd9e62&pd_rd_w=ADUzG&pd_rd_wg=0xIod&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT&psc=1&refRID=TXAQP7AX9YGDSCR67BYT If you'll notice, at this point my gear has undergone an evolution to the point that a lot of the actual ALICE stuff I once used is no longer being used (most of it sits in a box; I have enough to make a couple of emergency handout rigs if I had to). In fact, the belt is the only true ALICE item still being used (and I'd prefer an M1967 belt instead). I've found that older or later gear, or foreign gear, fit the bill better in a number of cases while still being cheap to get in the case of foreign or older American stuff. For example, the Canadian Pattern 82 pouches I'm using are great. Once you take out the plastic insert for attachment to the Canadian gear, you can use the slide keepers (which also allow attachment to MOLLE via the aforementioned adapters, of which I have several, although pouches attached this way can sag a bit more than I'd like). It also has a velcro belt loop. It's designed to be used with suspenders, has a drain hole, dividers between the magazines, lifting straps for the magazines, a full protective flap with a waterproof lining, modern nylon construction that seems similar to cordura and has some sort of water-resistant treatment, and uses my preferred pull tab closure/opening mechanism. Sized specifically for FAL magazines. I've yet to find a MOLLE pouch like this. Shop around; not suggesting any particular vendor, although Old Grouch is a member/Dealer here, IIRC.
Good luck; I've updated a fair amount of ALICE gear over the years, so I know it can be done. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By raf:
I've owned SA cotton canvas '58-based gear (Pattern 70), and it was some of the heaviest , stoutest, canvas I've ever seen. Well-made, but I wouldn't want to carry it when wet. The SA Nylon vest was well-made, but not at all user-configurable. One either has a 5.56 vest, or a 7.62 vest, both with all sorts of non-removeable pouches, and a ton of straps that made me think I was somehow missing key components, or at least lacking in knowledge about how the vest was supposed to be used/configured. Well-made, as you say, but surpassed by modern, configurable gear. I think a simple, user configured, MOLLE vest would be almost as well-made, and more useful, as well as lighter. YMMV. View Quote Obviously after the nylon SADF stuff and any similar gear from other countries, the next evolution was MOLLE rigs and even better materials. I do think that some of the stuff out there now, while costly, is very nice. Getting back to the SADF Pattern 83 stuff, there existed rigs meant to be 5.56mm compatible by having lifter straps inside, and the correct dimensions, to permit use with 7.62X51mm mags as well, in addition to the dedicated 5.56mm and 7.62mm rigs. I've noticed that the dedicated 7.62mm rigs tend to have more pockets than most of the 5.56mm ones. |
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The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton |
Originally Posted By raf:
I think you make a very good point, in that modern MOLLE gear is currently cheap and widely available (like ALICE gear used to be), and much more user configurable. Even the Grey-speckled UCP gear can be easily dyed at little cost, and to great benefit. I don't see where even the most dead-broke and die-hard ALICE user can't benefit from upgrading to USGI MOLLE gear. The two platforms were designed to be compatible; ALICE gear can be used on MOLLE platforms, for sure. The ALICE clips will work, but the lightweight MALICE fasteners are miles better than the old clips. I still use some very specific ALICE items, but the ALICE clips are long gone. To dedicated ALICE Users: Get yourself a MOLLE vest and/or belt, some LW MALICE clips for your ALICE pouches, and see what you think. . View Quote it's been a long time good buddy, couldn't agree with you more. Since assembling my first Hellcat nearly 15 years ago(and posting it on arfcom 10 years ago geez hard to believe it's been that long), alice gear was practically being given away, and first gen woodland molle shoulder straps and waist belts were hitting eBay w/ reckless abandon(literally); so uncle sam could make room for the new molle 2 enhanced ACU gear. Building a Hellcat was a steal for $40-$70. MOLLE 2 packs/rucks were selling for $150-$300. Right now I am looking at 5 MOLLE rucks in my office that I have not paid more than $70 shipped for any of them, $48 shipped for the least expensive one( ACU MOLLE 2 complete w/ 2 sustainment pouches). Prices will continue to be driven downward once the MOLLE 4000 starts to replace even the MOLLE 2 multicam. Good times are ahead for molle! Not so much for alice; right now, alice its trending $10-$20 higher for an assembled frame and ruck. That's before you add the molle upgrades. I agree, nows the time to sell your alice gear. I'm not planning on retiring my Hellcats any time soon; it's a great hybrid ruck, particularly if you already own the alice pack and frame. However, the molle rucks w/ gen 4 frames(1603) are hard to beat right now. I'll be posting an update on Hellcat mods in the near future; Hellcat 2.0 ?? Haven't decided what to call it yet. I also have plans for some video's featuring molle rucks; mods, tips and tricks. Good to be posting again, it's been way too long. Best regards Rod |
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Originally Posted By Enforcer: raf it's been a long time good buddy, couldn't agree with you more. Since assembling my first Hellcat nearly 15 years ago(and posting it on arfcom 10 years ago geez hard to believe it's been that long), alice gear was practically being given away, and first gen woodland molle shoulder straps and waist belts were hitting eBay w/ reckless abandon(literally); so uncle sam could make room for the new molle 2 enhanced ACU gear. Building a Hellcat was a steal for $40-$70. MOLLE 2 packs/rucks were selling for $150-$300. Right now I am looking at 5 MOLLE rucks in my office that I have not paid more than $70 shipped for any of them, $48 shipped for the least expensive one( ACU MOLLE 2 complete w/ 2 sustainment pouches). Prices will continue to be driven downward once the MOLLE 4000 starts to replace even the MOLLE 2 multicam. Good times are ahead for molle! Not so much for alice; right now, alice its trending $10-$20 higher for an assembled frame and ruck. That's before you add the molle upgrades. I agree, nows the time to sell your alice gear. I'm not planning on retiring my Hellcats any time soon; it's a great hybrid ruck, particularly if you already own the alice pack and frame. However, the molle rucks w/ gen 4 frames(1603) are hard to beat right now. I'll be posting an update on Hellcat mods in the near future; Hellcat 2.0 ?? Haven't decided what to call it yet. I also have plans for some video's featuring molle rucks; mods, tips and tricks. Good to be posting again, it's been way too long. Best regards Rod View Quote May I suggest that you have a look at my thread here on dyeing UCP MOLLE gear? https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/On-Dyeing-with-Rit-Dye-Many-Pix-/10-429475/ The straight apple green Rit dye gives a better contrast, but some might find it a bit much, so the 4 to 1 apple green/dark green ratio is an alternative. For brownish terrains, taupe is the only answer. Since the lighter pixels will take the dye more than the darker ones, solution strength (amount of dye) and immersion time control the end result. I have come to think that when dyeing UCP, maintaining the contrast between the lighter pixels and the darker ones is most important. What color one uses (Green vs. Brown) is important only as regards one's AO. What really matters is dyeing the lighter pixels the desired tint, but NOT going overboard. In any event, some contrast between the various pixels is extremely important, lest the contrast be lost, and the "break-up" of the pattern also be lost. IOW, some experimentation is extremely useful, and such should be done on "discardable" items. When dyeing UCP, select the right tint, and go by the maxim that "Less is More". Great to see you posting here again, Rod. All the best to you and the family! |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
There's literally no reason for someone looking for gear to use to buy ALICE anymore unless there's some odd niche thing you need it for. ALICE is for collectors at this point, and I'd argue that it's been that way for at least 5 years now. It's done. Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By raf:
IMO, and having been a collector of many eras of USGI Milsurp gear over the decades, it's time to put old Milsurp Alice gear out to pasture. The reason for my saying this is that most of it has been used hard, and time/use has taken its' toll. The Cotton (M1956) gear is completely unacceptable as it is subject to rot and mildew, unlike the nylon gear (mostly). Aside from that, the Mil found the nylon (M1967 gear FAR lighter overall, and especially when wet, and easier to clean if subjected to NBC contaminants. Consider selling nice M1956 gear on ebay--see below. An unalterable thing about nylon ALICE gear is that the waterproofing coating is subject to de-lamination given enough heat and time--mostly time. So, the coating begins to stink as it degrades, and will continue to do so until it is completely gone. It's possible to accelerate this process by turning the gear inside-out, and exposing the coating to direct sunlight; the process will still take a while, though-- and that's the problem: the waterproof coating falls-off at its' own rate, and will still stink during while it's decomposing. Any coated nylon fabric will eventually do the same sort of delamination/stink, even modern gear. Take heed. Another approach is to use a stiff brush to remove as much of the waterproof coating as possible, and then use some "Tent Floor Seal" to encapsulate the remainder, hopefully a small remainder. Only consider this if only intermittent flecks or small patches of the original coating are still present. This requires painting-on a thin coating, and I have found small foam brushes best. Buy quite a few, as they wear out fairly quickly-- you will see what I mean if you try this. In my experience, this is a very laborious process. One side-benefit to this process is that the user can sear the edges of exposed fabric and threads far more easily before treating the fabric, since they will be better exposed. If you can stand the smell of your elderly ALICE gear's waterproof coating degrading--and it will lessen over time as long as you brush it and wash it-- then consider spraying the outside of the gear with spray-on DWR. Doing so will greatly retard the water-absorption of the nylon fabric. It's not "waterproof", and does degrade over time, but it does not stink in the meantime, and is easier to renew. Those having minty-new ALICE gear should consider selling it on Ebay. Condition is Everything, and if it looks like new, you are far better off selling it to a collector than usiing it. Might bring surprising $. Very rare equiment still relies on the "Condition Rule", but I have seen some lightly damaged, but quite rare items go for surprising $. Having sold-off a LOT of milsurp gear, I have some experience with this. Still, the aforementioned notwithstanding, ALICE gear is nowadays not considered first-rate Sure, it works, but so does a Ford Model T. Fine for emergency hand-outs, but if you're in that situation, Heaven help you, not least for the type of your hand-out gear. FWIW, ALICE gear was fine in its' day, and some parts of the ensemble still have their uses. For example, the Med and Large ALICE packs (perhaps modified by Tactical Tailor), mounted on suitable MOLLE frames (Hellcat), the pistol belt, and even the updated Buttpack, with OEM Fastex buckles. The compass/first aid pouches are OK for M1 Garand clips, but use TT lightweight MALICE clips in lieu of the ALICE clips, PLEASE. I still have LOADS of ALICE gear, a good deal of it modified, sitting in storage. I will consider posting it on the EE. Surplus and discount MOLLE gear is dirt cheap, anyone can gear themselves out to the teeth with modern LBE even on a budget. Really rivals my much more expensive hsgi suregrip warbelt with cobra belt, etc. Without that option for cheap surplus than the ALICE is "fine". Since I'm not in and out of vehicles I prefer everything on my belt. |
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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Originally Posted By Enforcer: raf it's been a long time good buddy, couldn't agree with you more. Since assembling my first Hellcat nearly 15 years ago(and posting it on arfcom 10 years ago geez hard to believe it's been that long), alice gear was practically being given away, and first gen woodland molle shoulder straps and waist belts were hitting eBay w/ reckless abandon(literally); so uncle sam could make room for the new molle 2 enhanced ACU gear. Building a Hellcat was a steal for $40-$70. MOLLE 2 packs/rucks were selling for $150-$300. Right now I am looking at 5 MOLLE rucks in my office that I have not paid more than $70 shipped for any of them, $48 shipped for the least expensive one( ACU MOLLE 2 complete w/ 2 sustainment pouches). Prices will continue to be driven downward once the MOLLE 4000 starts to replace even the MOLLE 2 multicam. Good times are ahead for molle! Not so much for alice; right now, alice its trending $10-$20 higher for an assembled frame and ruck. That's before you add the molle upgrades. I agree, nows the time to sell your alice gear. I'm not planning on retiring my Hellcats any time soon; it's a great hybrid ruck, particularly if you already own the alice pack and frame. However, the molle rucks w/ gen 4 frames(1603) are hard to beat right now. I'll be posting an update on Hellcat mods in the near future; Hellcat 2.0 ?? Haven't decided what to call it yet. I also have plans for some video's featuring molle rucks; mods, tips and tricks. Good to be posting again, it's been way too long. Best regards Rod View Quote This particular pack seems to be very popular amongst the intended users. Whether or not that is due to the "Built-in" features of the required ABN strapping, thus reducing the time/effort required for ABN personnel to use it in ABN ops, or whether it is due to its' size/configuration I don't know. Both features are mentioned by Mil users, as well as the center of gravity of the pack seeming to suit most users better than the larger MOLLE pack. This last is important, but since most MOLLE pack users are presumably ill-trained on how to "drive' their packs, perhaps questionable. A larger, heavier pack is always going to be a greater burden, and tougher to "drive". The MOLLE 4000 seems to be popular enough that a separate version, deleting most, if not all, of the ABN features could be offered. This version would be lighter, and have zero drawbacks to the "leg" infantry. Time will tell. I think most experienced users of MilSurp packs, who, presumably, are able to resist the urge to "fill the pack", would be better off with the Large MOLLE Pack vice the MOLLE 4000. Vast price difference aside, the slight weight penalty of a less-than-full Large pack allows for the needed room in case it's needed, such as when winter camping; IOW, more versatile. YMMV. |
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"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Bump to avoid archive
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Able to drive in snow
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This thread has got me motivated to get my ALICE gear back together. The belt, suspenders, mag pouches and buttpack were handed down to me by my dad who was light infantry in the Army in the 80s and very early 90s. It's an important piece of gear to me from a nostalgic standpoint. I'm waiting on some other pieces to come in from EBAY and finish it up before I take any pictures of it but I'll be posting it here for sure.
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"One day you may find me laying face down in a ditch................but I'll be laying on a pile of empty brass!"
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I still have my Alice set up from my Army days.
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Buy It Cheap!
Stack It Deep! |
The start. Waiting on m12 holster, pistol mag pouches, FAK and canteen cup/cover combo to come in.
Ive gotta.dig my ALICE.pack up too. Attached File |
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"One day you may find me laying face down in a ditch................but I'll be laying on a pile of empty brass!"
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The trick of using paracord for quick adjustments to compensate for the lack of that capability is just so cool.
I will post the one I use and another cool one. |
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Not ALICE, but it is a contemporary system.The drop pouch and med pouch are from Techincom, the supplier for the Ratnik modernization program of the Russian Army.Between the connecting strap and the drop pouch has a sheath for a knife. Plus some Baltimore Clipper Ship pride .
image sharing |
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Need to dig mine up too. The one I assembled when I was stationed in Germany '86-'89. Still complete with the blank firing adapter attached to the grenade loop on the magazine pouch.
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Looking for my first .45. Satin nickel Colt Combat Commander serial # 70SC85412 sold at a gun show in Louisville KY sometime in 1985. My Avatar, my sweet princess girly girl Maggie. Got a nice 15 years with her, miss her a lot.
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Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore.
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Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore. View Quote |
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BE THE ONE - EdwardAvila
#SaveThe2nd WE YEETED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BILLS DURING THE LEGISLATIVE BOOGALOO - WhiskersTheCat I AM A PEACEFUL GUN OWNER |
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
What about something like this? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore. |
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Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Ooh I like it. Found it for like half that price elsewhere thankfully, still going to hunt for a poor version! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Originally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk:
Does anyone make something comparable to the spec ops hump pouch? I'm looking to run a hydration bladder in the empty space better the pack and my back on a hellcat. Seems to be just what I need, but it's not made anymore. Back when I was in 25 years ago (damn I'm getting old ) we'd tie our 5qt canteens in there. |
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BE THE ONE - EdwardAvila
#SaveThe2nd WE YEETED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BILLS DURING THE LEGISLATIVE BOOGALOO - WhiskersTheCat I AM A PEACEFUL GUN OWNER |
Originally Posted By DeltaTrain1371:
Not ALICE, but it is a contemporary system.The drop pouch and med pouch are from Techincom, the supplier for the Ratnik modernization program of the Russian Army.Between the connecting strap and the drop pouch has a sheath for a knife. Plus some Baltimore Clipper Ship pride . https://i.postimg.cc/153Bwc19/web-gear-1.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/Y0GcSc3P/web-gear-3.jpgimage sharing View Quote |
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"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken |
From a lot of posts here I don't see any knives attached to your gear. I always had two. One on my belt and the other on my H-Suspenders. Usually had a 4 inch boot knife design.
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Buy It Cheap!
Stack It Deep! |
One of the reasons why I no longer suggest GI ALICE items is that such items are so old that their original Polyurethane costing, inside the fabric, is deteriorating, and giving off the typical stink. This has nothing to do with sunlight/age deterioration of the outside of the nylon, which also occurs, over time.
It is also a problem that some ALICE items are being snapped-up by collectors, at collector prices. Go look at M1967 20 rd mag pouches. Make sure you're seated when you see the asked-for prices. I believe I have 15 or so of such pouches, like new, simply storing my re-furbished GI 20-rd mags. Maybe I'll wait a while, and sell the pouches off for some seriousbucks. I did so before with a LOT of older USGI gear. Might be time for selling the 20-rd pouches. |
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Promoted to Member by Ed, Sr.
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I just found some M1967 20 rounder's on ebay for $22 each. And another place for $23.
Are you finding them priced higher than that? |
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We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand |
Originally Posted By mike_nds: I just found some M1967 20 rounder's on ebay for $22 each. And another place for $23. Are you finding them priced higher than that? View Quote I was buying them locally (all he had) for about $5 each, 3 years back. Store is no longer in business, unfortunately. |
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Promoted to Member by Ed, Sr.
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Not ALICE, but I picked up this harness for $25 off of Ebay.
Its a discontinued Air Force Item. Air Force Rifleman harness or something. More comfortable than a traditional ALICE harness, and MOLLE. The pouches I already had lying around. Attached File |
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Author of, "The Spartan's Last March," available on Amazon.
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