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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:37:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just came across these http://www.righttobear.com/FAXON-FIREARMS-11-5-GUNNER-5-56-NATO-Mid-Length-p/15a58m11ngq.htm they remind me of the 16" rifle gas barrels that were kicking around for a while. Anybody use them? Not in the market right now but I figured I would ask and see if anyone was using them. Maybe I'm in the wrong here, but why a mid-length on a 11.5? |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:45:54 PM EDT
[#2]
For suppressed only guns.
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:47:52 PM EDT
[#3]
The lower pressure from the mid gas and the extremely short dwell time would make proper cycling a bitch.
ETA: typing as you answered, yes, suppressed would work. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:55:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The lower pressure from the mid gas and the extremely short dwell time would make proper cycling a bitch. ETA: typing as you answered, yes, suppressed would work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The lower pressure from the mid gas and the extremely short dwell time would make proper cycling a bitch. ETA: typing as you answered, yes, suppressed would work. Are you guessing or have you dealt with this setup before? I remember when the 10.5" barrels first started showing up and they were very finicky but now are considered reliable. Quoted:
For suppressed only guns. I would most likely be suppressed most of the time as I hate loud little bastards anymore. |
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:56:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Some manufacturers got them working fine with suppression or unsuppressed however they are sensitive to what ammo you set them up for so keep that in mind. They can be reliable as long as your shooting pretty much the same ammo.
If you want to keep the rifle more reliable and universal id just go with the slightly shorter carbine length and skip the over hyped mid length. Add on an adjustable gas block and you'll be better off. Tune the gas block for weak ammo and you can have a soft shooter with a reliable gun. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:50:36 AM EDT
[#6]
I had seen these and was interested, then I saw this note on Faxon's product page: **Due to the short dwell of the barrel, the gas port will be larger than most barrels. Customers are encouraged to use an adjustable gas block for optimum functionality.
11.5" BIG GUNNER |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:50:47 AM EDT
[#7]
I have a 12.5" mid length from micro moa that has functioned perfectly. Looking at it now though, it seems like the gas block would be touching the muzzle device on a 11.5".
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Posted: 3/20/2016 11:57:52 AM EDT
[#8]
I run one now with a SLR block, everything is gtg on it, suppressed or not. Quite a few people running them. I've taken it out with my 11.5" bcm and nothing to note really. The 11.5 mid is softer shooting in my case, but I'm sure that's only because the adjustable block.
Main reason for buying it, is I like the barrel profile, wanted to try a qpq barrel, and faxon has great CS. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#9]
It doesn't make sense to me. 10.5" with carbine gas has a short dwell time. An 11.5" doesn't have to have that disadvantage...but they gave it that same disadvantage. Then they open up the gas port to compensate for the insanity, and then they recommend you use an adjustable gas block to compensate for THAT insanity.
That's like curing your mouse problem with feral cats, then using rabid dogs to get rid of the feral cat problem, then using tigers to get rid of the dogs, and so on. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:10:06 PM EDT
[#10]
I'm sure Faxxon knows what they are doing. I don't think they are stupid.
The gas port is opened up larger than usual, and its meant for an adjustable gas block. Truthfully it looks pretty neat, part of me wants one. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:15:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sure Faxxon knows what they are doing. I don't think they are stupid. The gas port is opened up larger than usual, and its meant for an adjustable gas block. Truthfully it looks pretty neat, part of me wants one. I don't think they're stupid. I own their barrels and I'm very happy with them. But the part in red sounds stupid. They've created a problem that now needs solved. Why not just use a carbine gas setup with a tiny gas port? That's what I've done on my 10.5" - carbine gas and a 0.049" gas port. It works fantastically and still has the proper dwell time. It's spelled "Faxon" by the way. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:20:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think they're stupid. I own their barrels and I'm very happy with them. But the part in red sounds stupid. They've created a problem that now needs solved. Why not just use a carbine gas setup with a tiny gas port? That's what I've done on my 10.5" - carbine gas and a 0.049" gas port. It works fantastically and still has the proper dwell time. It's spelled "Faxon" by the way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure Faxxon knows what they are doing. I don't think they are stupid. The gas port is opened up larger than usual, and its meant for an adjustable gas block. Truthfully it looks pretty neat, part of me wants one. I don't think they're stupid. I own their barrels and I'm very happy with them. But the part in red sounds stupid. They've created a problem that now needs solved. Why not just use a carbine gas setup with a tiny gas port? That's what I've done on my 10.5" - carbine gas and a 0.049" gas port. It works fantastically and still has the proper dwell time. It's spelled "Faxon" by the way. Well gee, thanks for the spelling lesson friend. Like it's totally relevant pointing out a person's typo, isn't this a tech thread? I also wanted to mention the whole suppressor thing. Honestly I'd wait for the reviews before I go out and get one. A lot of people thought a midlength 14.5" was stupid, but tbh I love mine. Who knows how this could turn out, I'm not going to be a Guinea pig though. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:28:32 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm not going to lie, I want that.
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:29:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well gee, thanks for the spelling lesson friend. Like it's totally relevant pointing out a person's typo, isn't this a tech thread? I also wanted to mention the whole suppressor thing. Honestly I'd wait for the reviews before I go out and get one. A lot of people thought a midlength 14.5" was stupid, but tbh I love mine. Who knows how this could turn out, I'm not going to be a Guinea pig though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure Faxxon knows what they are doing. I don't think they are stupid. The gas port is opened up larger than usual, and its meant for an adjustable gas block. Truthfully it looks pretty neat, part of me wants one. I don't think they're stupid. I own their barrels and I'm very happy with them. But the part in red sounds stupid. They've created a problem that now needs solved. Why not just use a carbine gas setup with a tiny gas port? That's what I've done on my 10.5" - carbine gas and a 0.049" gas port. It works fantastically and still has the proper dwell time. It's spelled "Faxon" by the way. Well gee, thanks for the spelling lesson friend. Like it's totally relevant pointing out a person's typo, isn't this a tech thread? I also wanted to mention the whole suppressor thing. Honestly I'd wait for the reviews before I go out and get one. A lot of people thought a midlength 14.5" was stupid, but tbh I love mine. Who knows how this could turn out, I'm not going to be a Guinea pig though. In a tech thread, you should be able to spell the name of the manufacturer that the thread is about, friend. Midlength makes sense on a 14.5" barrel. I have one, it's great. The difference in dwell time between an 11.5" middy and a 14.5" middy is the issue at hand here. I know Faxon watches the board, hopefully they can add to the discussion about the choice for a short dwell time and huge gas port instead of a regular dwell time and a small gas port. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:40:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a tech thread, you should be able to spell the name of the manufacturer that the thread is about, friend. Midlength makes sense on a 14.5" barrel. I have one, it's great. The difference in dwell time between an 11.5" middy and a 14.5" middy is the issue at hand here. I know Faxon watches the board, hopefully they can add to the discussion about the choice for a short dwell time and huge gas port instead of a regular dwell time and a small gas port. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm sure Faxxon knows what they are doing. I don't think they are stupid. The gas port is opened up larger than usual, and its meant for an adjustable gas block. Truthfully it looks pretty neat, part of me wants one. I don't think they're stupid. I own their barrels and I'm very happy with them. But the part in red sounds stupid. They've created a problem that now needs solved. Why not just use a carbine gas setup with a tiny gas port? That's what I've done on my 10.5" - carbine gas and a 0.049" gas port. It works fantastically and still has the proper dwell time. It's spelled "Faxon" by the way. Well gee, thanks for the spelling lesson friend. Like it's totally relevant pointing out a person's typo, isn't this a tech thread? I also wanted to mention the whole suppressor thing. Honestly I'd wait for the reviews before I go out and get one. A lot of people thought a midlength 14.5" was stupid, but tbh I love mine. Who knows how this could turn out, I'm not going to be a Guinea pig though. In a tech thread, you should be able to spell the name of the manufacturer that the thread is about, friend. Midlength makes sense on a 14.5" barrel. I have one, it's great. The difference in dwell time between an 11.5" middy and a 14.5" middy is the issue at hand here. I know Faxon watches the board, hopefully they can add to the discussion about the choice for a short dwell time and huge gas port instead of a regular dwell time and a small gas port. Typos happen, if that genuinely bothers you. I don't know what to say. No reason to be a Richard about it, aren't we all here for information? Looking at it though, I wonder if a 12.5" with that gas system would have been a better idea to experiment with. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 1:43:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Easy guys we are all friends here.
On another note any idea why my barrel thread got moved to the suppressor forum???? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 2:16:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Typos happen, if that genuinely bothers you. I don't know what to say. No reason to be a Richard about it, aren't we all here for information? Looking at it though, I wonder if a 12.5" with that gas system would have been a better idea to experiment with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Typos happen, if that genuinely bothers you. I don't know what to say. No reason to be a Richard about it, aren't we all here for information? Looking at it though, I wonder if a 12.5" with that gas system would have been a better idea to experiment with. Was I rude in the way I corrected you? Because you seem really upset about it. Quoted:
Easy guys we are all friends here. On another note any idea why my barrel thread got moved to the suppressor forum???? I've noticed a few barrel threads in the suppressor forum recently. It makes no sense to me either. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 2:26:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was I rude in the way I corrected you? Because you seem really upset about it. I've noticed a few barrel threads in the suppressor forum recently. It makes no sense to me either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Typos happen, if that genuinely bothers you. I don't know what to say. No reason to be a Richard about it, aren't we all here for information? Looking at it though, I wonder if a 12.5" with that gas system would have been a better idea to experiment with. Was I rude in the way I corrected you? Because you seem really upset about it. Quoted:
Easy guys we are all friends here. On another note any idea why my barrel thread got moved to the suppressor forum???? I've noticed a few barrel threads in the suppressor forum recently. It makes no sense to me either. No idea why this got moved. Also It's easy to come off as rude when you correct another person's grammar or typos, especially when you make it a point to call them out on it. I'm willing to let it go though. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 3:35:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Faxon 11.5 Mid
SLR 6 LMT E-carrier Vltor A5H4 Trek Its soft and relatively clean shooting. The SLR is on setting 4 from fully closed, so not using a whole lot of gas. It would be nice to have a full auto lower to see what the cyclic rate would be. Dwell time is overrated, just ask the old gas trap rifles! 
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For suppressed only guns. Not quite. They work best with suppressed firearms, but they also work well un-suppressed. With the mid length, the pressures redirected back into the receiver is less increasing service life, decreasing carbon, and decreasing recoil (especially when used with an adjustable gas block). |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:28:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 12.5" mid length from micro moa that has functioned perfectly. Looking at it now though, it seems like the gas block would be touching the muzzle device on a 11.5". The gas block journal is about 1.65" Most gas blocks work without issue. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 4:32:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesn't make sense to me. 10.5" with carbine gas has a short dwell time. An 11.5" doesn't have to have that disadvantage...but they gave it that same disadvantage. Then they open up the gas port to compensate for the insanity, and then they recommend you use an adjustable gas block to compensate for THAT insanity. That's like curing your mouse problem with feral cats, then using rabid dogs to get rid of the feral cat problem, then using tigers to get rid of the dogs, and so on. An interesting metaphor, which was worth the laugh, thank you. We recommend an adjustable NOT for making up for anything, but because each suppressor manufacturer creates cans differently. Therefore, each can has unique added back-pressure (AAC 7.62 cans create immense back pressure versus OSS which creates almost none). This allows users to tune their suppressed rigs to their cans. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 5:31:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not quite. They work best with suppressed firearms, but they also work well un-suppressed. With the mid length, the pressures redirected back into the receiver is less increasing service life, decreasing carbon, and decreasing recoil (especially when used with an adjustable gas block). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For suppressed only guns. Not quite. They work best with suppressed firearms, but they also work well un-suppressed. With the mid length, the pressures redirected back into the receiver is less increasing service life, decreasing carbon, and decreasing recoil (especially when used with an adjustable gas block). While the port pressure is lower on a midlength, how does pressure at the gas key compare between a carbine gas system with a small gas port and a midlength gas system with a large gas port (both with 11.5" barrels)? Also, if the gas is adjusted to the minimum level that achieves reliable function, does it matter? Wouldn't pressure at the gas key be equal? |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 5:41:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the port pressure is lower on a midlength, how does pressure at the gas key compare between a carbine gas system with a small gas port and a midlength gas system with a large gas port (both with 11.5" barrels)? Also, if the gas is adjusted to the minimum level that achieves reliable function, does it matter? Wouldn't pressure at the gas key be equal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For suppressed only guns. Not quite. They work best with suppressed firearms, but they also work well un-suppressed. With the mid length, the pressures redirected back into the receiver is less increasing service life, decreasing carbon, and decreasing recoil (especially when used with an adjustable gas block). While the port pressure is lower on a midlength, how does pressure at the gas key compare between a carbine gas system with a small gas port and a midlength gas system with a large gas port (both with 11.5" barrels)? Also, if the gas is adjusted to the minimum level that achieves reliable function, does it matter? Wouldn't pressure at the gas key be equal? My guess is the midlength is lower because of a greater volume. In my brain that makes sense but I have no info to back up that guess. |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 9:06:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While the port pressure is lower on a midlength, how does pressure at the gas key compare between a carbine gas system with a small gas port and a midlength gas system with a large gas port (both with 11.5" barrels)? Also, if the gas is adjusted to the minimum level that achieves reliable function, does it matter? Wouldn't pressure at the gas key be equal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For suppressed only guns. Not quite. They work best with suppressed firearms, but they also work well un-suppressed. With the mid length, the pressures redirected back into the receiver is less increasing service life, decreasing carbon, and decreasing recoil (especially when used with an adjustable gas block). While the port pressure is lower on a midlength, how does pressure at the gas key compare between a carbine gas system with a small gas port and a midlength gas system with a large gas port (both with 11.5" barrels)? Also, if the gas is adjusted to the minimum level that achieves reliable function, does it matter? Wouldn't pressure at the gas key be equal? Function of a semi-auto rifle is all about two things, pressure and flow/volume. A great metaphor is is electricity in terms of voltage (pressure), amps (flow). The mid length has less pressure due to the gas port being farther down the barrel. Therefore, it needs more flow to function. This is OK, as less pressure means less wear and less sudden reaction just needs more of the lower pressure to function. Thus, to answer your question, the pressure itself will ALWAYS be higher in a shorter gas system. The smaller hole means less flow. In very simplistic terms, the shorter the gas system the faster the "jerk" and the longer the gas system the more gradual pull (again very simplistic terms). So, yes, even with a system adjusted to the minimum gas, there is always the higher base pressure on the system. You can only meter the flow. |
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Posted: 3/21/2016 12:47:43 PM EDT
[#26]
What about the advantage of delayed unlocking of the bolt and extraction with lower case pressures? Maybe its not a big enough of a difference between carbine gas and mid. But it seems like milliseconds make a difference and the longer you wait to extract the case means less pressure, and less work/wear&tear.
That is the idea behind the LMT e-carrier cam track change. For my setup, the LMT meant I could close the gas 1 click vs a normal carrier. I ended up at the Faxon 11.5 mid after looking real hard at the Micromoa 12.5 mid. My main shooter is a 12.5 carbine so I decided to try something different and lightweight. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 8:04:44 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about the advantage of delayed unlocking of the bolt and extraction with lower case pressures? Maybe its not a big enough of a difference between carbine gas and mid. But it seems like milliseconds make a difference and the longer you wait to extract the case means less pressure, and less work/wear&tear. That is the idea behind the LMT e-carrier cam track change. For my setup, the LMT meant I could close the gas 1 click vs a normal carrier. I ended up at the Faxon 11.5 mid after looking real hard at the Micromoa 12.5 mid. My main shooter is a 12.5 carbine so I decided to try something different and lightweight. That is also quite the benefit. Milliseconds may not seem like much, but it is a huge span of time relative to the cycle and operation of a firearm. |
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Posted: 3/22/2016 10:39:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Faxon seems to have it down. I like their gas port sizes on their barrels, they're spot on.
16" Rifle length in the works?? 
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Posted: 3/22/2016 10:53:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Faxon seems to have it down. I like their gas port sizes on their barrels, they're spot on. 16" Rifle length in the works?? Not at this time. We experimented and the 16" rifle, even with a large gas port, is not 100% functional. |
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