I've owned various subguns for the past 10+ years, but I've never had a rifle-caliber MG.  Around 2000-2001, I nearly bought a converted AR15, but ended up buying a wedding ring instead (and I'm still happy with that decision, btw).  Seems like at that time conversion guns were in the $4-5000 range, and factory M16s were a little more.  

I've still always wanted to get an M16-type MG, but I can't really justify getting one at current prices.  Realistically, the only way I would be able to get one now would be to sell my Uzi to help fund it.  

The gun would be primarily used for general shooting / plinking.  Knowing myself, an M16 would likely be used 95% in 9mm and .22LR, with only the occasional use in .223 or .300 Whisper.  Even though I don't get to compete nearly as often as I'd like, one of my primary considerations is suitability for subgun matches.  For competition use, an M16/9 would get me a closed-bolt gun that I can use with or without optics at KCR.  (I currently use my Reising for this, but it's not exactly the ideal candidate - especially when you try to strap on some type of scope).  It could also be used in both "Modern" and "Open" classes at other matches, such as ISSMC.  I'm thinking the Uzi actually suppresses a little better than the M16/9, with the same can.  They both sound pretty good with a Trident-9, but the Uzi sounds much better when both are shot with my Bowers CAC-45.  

If I wanted a .45, I could more easily do this with the Uzi than with an RR M16.  There are more options with a DIAS, but those cost a few thousand more than an RR.  And I've already got a subgun in that caliber.

Advantages to getting the M16 are that the platform is very flexible.  I already have a handful of uppers in various NFA & Title I configurations.  I've already got a working 9mm conversion for my SBR with a number of mags.  Rimfire conversions and magazines are readily available.  Beta-C mags are available in 9mm & .223.  

Disadvantages are that the majority of M16/9mms that I've seen were not 100% reliable.  While I have shot a few that were excellent, I see a lot of them that seem to have issues.  The last time I shot one, I was reminded that this is not the smoothest SMG to shoot.  Granted, you can swap buffers and change the feel of the gun, but I recently put my 9mm upper on a friend's lower w/DIAS and it was... jarring.  Not that the gun had any significant kick to it.  But I would describe the recoil impulse as sharp and fast.  Difficult to keep precisely on target without a lot of work.  The Uzi is choppy, but even so is much more controllable than the M16/9, I thought.  

I currently have a closed-bolt setup for my Uzi, and I have been able to slow down the ROF to where it is an acceptable rate.  I can get singles with work.    But I'm still tinkering a little.  I've also got a reliable topcover that I can mount a scope to, so I have the option of shooting both open and closed bolt, with or without optics.  For SMG competition, this Uzi setup has nearly all of the categories covered (and I've got the Reising for "Classic" class).  I also have a .22 kit for the Uzi with a number of magazines.  The BDM mags seem to really help with the reliability on this one.  It runs at least as well as most of the M16/22 kits I've seen.  

So my question for those of you who have both is if you had to choose only one, which one would you keep and why?  

Well GarrettJ, that is a tough question.  It is often said that a question of "Which to choose...?" that is like asking me which of my children I love more.  Since I only have one child, it's even tougher for me.

I have only been into full-auto for 9 years.  At the '01 S.A.R. Show in PHX I asked Peter Kokalis which to get first: Colt M16A1 or a Vector SMG.  He said (due to the pending release of the Shrike), get the M16 before the prices shot through the roof.  Plus Vector would have several years worth of $2800 UZIs still in inventory.  So I bought the Colt for $7200 and a year later (after Vector had run out) I bought a NIB full-size SMG for $4100.  I had a suppressor, .22 kit, .45 ACP/greasegun, and Blackjack buffers for my Vector.  In '06 the LUST for a Mini SMG overwhelmed me so I sold the full-size for $6200, along with the FS .22 kit.  I bought the Mini for $7400 + Troy's .22 Mini kit, Troy's Heavy 9mm bolt, suppressor, kept the GG lower and am getting the Barrelxchnge Mini .45 bolt/barrel.  I had the Mini refinished in Robar NP 3 teflon/nickel and got the F.A.B. Mini rail for lights/laser & VFG.  
So now my 2 "children" are #1 and #2 in the collection.  Forced to give up one... I would keep the Colt.  I have 8 uppers, with everything from a (now rare) Rick Keuhl 5.5" SS dedicated/suppressed upper to an 11.5" 7.62x39 upper with 7 (great running) franken-mags.  HTH

M16 over an Uzi any day of the week.

I honestly hardly ever shoot my Uzi  and it has been relagated to one of the back corners of the safe at this point.  I primarily keep it since it is one of the few machineguns my wife likes and new shooters always seem to enjoy it for some reason... (maybe they have visions of the chuck norris invasion usa posters in their head or that Uzi is synonmous with machinegun).  

I personally don't care for the stock Uzi rate of fire and even if you put a cut down semi-buffer in there to speed it up the ROF the recoil increases and the ergonomics of the gun with the front handguard so close and short and the standard folding metal stock just are not a nice an an M16/9.  However, I understand that I am in the minority in not loving the Uzi to death.

My personal M16/9 runs an LRM integral top end and an AAC rate reducing buffer, and a Hahn top loading block that I modifed to engage the LRBHO.  

I actually prefer my M16/9 over my MP5 due to the ergonomics of the overall longer platform of the M16/9 vs the smaller compact MP5.  While the MP5 is definatley smoother,   I guess I lprefer the ability to have my front hand farther out away from my body vs. almost directly in front of my trigger finger hand as it feels more natural/comfortable.    

While I don't have the best things to say about LRM firearms as a business the actual suppressed upper itself is nice due to being able to shoot cheap 115gr without any sonic crack due to the integral porting, which is something you can't do with an Uzi.    If you go with the M16 and can find a used LRM upper in good condition on the open market it might be worth looking into since they actually shoot pretty well and LRM is long since gone out of business so there are no new ones available.

The only thing that the M16/9 is finiky about in my opinion is that it really needs Colt OEM mags.  The promag or cproduct mags work OK, but just not as well as the OEM Colt Metal mags.  While expensive compared to the cproduct or modded uzi mags, there are worth the cost in order to get the most out of the platform.

As always I understand that this thread is worthless without pics so here is my M16/9 right after I finished putting it together about 4 years ago.  



James
Austin, Texas

I haven't shot a full size uzi but I have two 9m uppers for my RDIAS and a F/A Mini Uzi with a heavy bolt. Of the two I prefer the M16. It does bounce quite a bit, but I'm still more accurate with the '16 than the Mini. I have a VM-hytech uzi adapter and it runs flawlessly on my handloads. However I didn't have much luck with C-pruducts mags and a Hahn block.



I think the best thing about the '16 is the versatility of the platform. It's easy to ajust the rate of fire with different buffers and springs. something else you might look into if you go with a M-16 is a gas operated 9mm upper. Ron williams is supposed to have a gas upper that runs smoothly in 9mm.

I currently own a M11 with a Lage slow fire upper and AWC MK9a suppressor.  I hope to sell it in a couple of years and get a RR.

I plan on putting it on the market the next few months and start saving.  I own a few guns that I do not shoot at all and plan on selling them and putting the funds toward the RR.

Anyone in the market for a M11?

My neighbor has 2 original Colts and I love shooting them more than the sub gun.  The sub gun is fun though with its ROF with the stock upper and mac-jack installed.  

Videos of me shooting it with the stock upper and mac-jack and my sister shooting  it with the Lage upper.

M11 with stock upper and mac-jack

Sister shooting the Lage upper

if you really do think that you'll be doing 95% of your shooting in 9mm, then the uzi is the way to go.

the uzi was built robust and reliable, and is intended to be a pistol caliber SMG. the M16 SHOULD run well in 9mm, but the M16 was not designed to be a pistol caliber SMG. there is a reason you see anti-rotation pins, special hammers, ramped bolts, extra-heavy buffers, etc.

in all honesty, i find the DEA and DOE M16's to be the most lusty firearms on the planet though.

Damn double posts. See below.

Summed it up pretty well. If you really think you'll be doing 95% of the shooting in 9mm, the uzi would be a better choice on paper. But this is the real world, and nothing is ever as it seems on paper.

I'd say go for the M16. I love mine. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Well, I would, just as long as I could get another M16 in the process and still have enough for another couple of k's worth of ammo or something. But I'm a whore.

I'm sure tony will be along to chime in, but he has both, his uzi is his work horse, but he has said he would rather go live in a cardboard box then sell his M16.

The answer of course is to get both.  

But if you absolutely, positively, can only get one, then the M16 is the more versatile choice.

I used to own a full size UZI, but sold it and bought a Mini UZI. I also have a M-16 in .22lr, 9mm, and .223 which i love the flexibility of the weapon. If i had to choose between the full size UZI and M-16/9mm i would go with the UZI personally. This is mainly because the UZI is what a SMG should be, tough and reliable. But for SMG competitions the M-16/9mm does lend itself to better accuracy, better trigger, easier to mount optics, fires from closed bolt. While the UZI will have faster magazines changes and can be accurate but takes more practice to get used to the open bolt, and you can easily change the RMP's to your tastes by adding a buffer to the size of your choice. I really love the full size UZI with a 3/4" buffer i made, gets the UZI running nice and smooth around 750RMP's or so if i had to guess. I mainly shoot the M-16 in .233 and .22lr, but i hardly shoot it in 9mm anymore since I enjoy shooting the Mini UZI much more in 9mm. But having a machine gun in .223 with a short barrel is a real blast to shoot.

Oh, and I forgot to say. I know some people have had issues with 9mm set ups. I've had more issues with my .223 set ups then I have in 9mm. I can't say that I've never had an issue. One of the five hahn mag blocks that I've been threw wasn't quite right with how the ejector was set. Which I've come to find out is a commen problem with them. But after tweaking it a little (1 min and a set of needle nose) and I was up and running again. I've owned two RR, a RDIAS, and I've played with a couple of others, and I have never not been able to get them to run. All but the one hahn block was pretty much plug and play. Slap in the mag block, switch the buffer and upper, good to go. I've shot thousands of rounds threw mine. Thousands. I love 9mm out of the AR/16 platform. I guess that would have been more helpful to your question.

Garrett that is a tough question for me personally to answer.

Reason is.... I LOVE my Uzi and LOVE my M16.  It is so hard for me to determine which one I would drop.  They both run 100% for me.  I mean look at Tony K...... the guy has owned all kinds of MGs through the years and now he is down to only 2.... guess what they are?  An Uzi and an M16.  

Now my issue is I dont shoot 9mm through my M16 because I think its too hard on the reciever ring area with all the pounding.  That is what I have heard on this site matter a fact.  So all I shoot out of it is 5.56 and .22 once in a while when I get that stupid atchisson kit running but thats another story.

I absolutely love how my Uzi shoots and I enjoy shooting 9mm through it more than any other 9mm subgun including the MP5.  So I guess in my opinion it seems as though you wont be shooting 5.56 very much through your gun and that 9mm is what you will be using most of the time along with .22 according to your original post.  So in that case if you ABSOLUTELY can not afford to aquire an M16 and NEED to choose one of the other...... I would say stick with your Uzi.  

however if you can afford (take out a loan or whatever you need to do) to get an M16 do it.  

my 2 cents.

Rob

An M16 is the most versatile MG a civilian can own and they will stand up to civilian use forever.  The decision maker for me is the .22 conversion kit, I actually own two 99% reliable .22 uppers.  Without those I'd rarely shoot them.

I think a real debate should be M16/9 vs Uzi and all the trimings, due to the price difference.  I have both as SBRs, the Uzi puts a bigger grin on my face, the 9mm AR is always jamming and causing issues (practically requires a suppressor to work reliably).

Kharn

Well.... if you ever desire a Shrike ....

All the 9mm M16s I have shot or owned function 99% can't say 100% because nothing is. Get the M16 and you won't be dissapointed.

Sold my uzi. I prefer the M16/9 (rdias) over the uzi, but for 9mm the MP5 is king

I ahve both also and I would keep the M16 over the Uzi..

The M16 has it all over the Uzi when it comes all the different calibers and conversions. Plus the M16 is easier to shoot and has better ergonomics..

How much for the M11?

Have both.  Agree the 16 is most versatile.  If you want one receiver to do all 16 is the way.  If I had no intention of shooting 5.56 the Uzi is a more cost-effective purchase.  

.22RF?  Well, I've had good luck with my .22 kit in the FS Uzi.  I am the first to admit this is not typical.  Whatever, but kits are still being made and tweaked.  We could even see a drum conversion.  People bitch about the dirt from shooting steel-cased .223.  Funny, b/c .22rf is without a doubt a full order of magnitude worse.  You will find unburned powder, lube, lead shavings all over the place.......I mean everywhere.  Uzi's a bit easier to clean in .22rf.  

9mm........well, I only half-ass cleaned my Uzi (bore patch and bolt wipedown) for the first 5 years or so.  I never even dropped the lower or removed the extractor (didn't know you could remove the extractor till I went to Uzitalk.com   ).  

As others have noted there are no ramped bolt/trigger slap/egged FCG holes issues to contend with on the Uzi.

For all these reasons I prefer the Uzi for 9mm (and occasional .22rf) use.

Yes, the above list spells out my essential laziness.  But there it is:  go shoot.  After shooting, one CLP patch through bore followed by cursory wipedown of bolt with that dirty patch.  Put the gun in the safe.

Sam

'nother mainer with an uzi. cool.