And what about Captain Kirk and Spock

im going against the grain here.

Ive shot plenty of thompsons over the years.

I cant stand them.

for about 30 seconds, yep first time pull.

after that, they are not that great. I do value the design for the time period, but it was surpassed by many.

I value the stens and the sterlings over the thompson. also the mp40 and 41 over it. yes i have shot them all.

to be honest the grease gun was better.

Or Booth and Bones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGWqhQJjxCI

This wasn't really intended to be thread about the merits of Thompsons.

I was just making the observation that IF you DO want a Thompson, then it appears that this is a good time to buy one.  The prices seem to be soft relatively speaking, and they probably won't stay that way.

What people like or don't like is subjective, so there is literally no point in debating it.  It would be like debating over whether fried chicken is better than steak.  

Guns DO have objective qualities, however.  For example, it is an indisputable fact that pre-1945 Thompsons are very reliable and durable.  They have a good supply of high-quality replacement parts and they need zero dicking with to make them run good.  They have a gigantic feed ramp and almost never jam.  They are easy to shoot well and are accurate.  They are appealing to collectors because they are an iconic design with a colorful history.

One the negative side, they are expensive, heavy, and some short people struggle with the long buttstock.  The stick mags are made of thin steel and you can damage them if you drop them while full of ammo.  The ammo is kind of pricey, but easy and cheap to reload.

I suspect that most of the other "specific" criticisms of the gun are internet blah blah, from people who never shot one.  They don't have the ring of truth.  Like the "bad ergonomics" thing.  What exactly did they try to ergonom-o-gize and fail at?  Had to lay the gun on the ground to push the thumb mag release?  Needed a diagram to pull the bolt back?

I have shot a lot of MGs as well.  I would say that my favorites are the UZI and M1A1 Thompson.  Which is kind of weird, because they are pretty opposite of each other.   I was very surprised at how nice the M3 grease gun shot.  It's a very agreeable gun.  Never shot a STEN yet.  

If a TV or movie director can figure out how to squeeze a Thompson in, it's going in.  

I wish I could get my reloads to make that giant muzzle flash.  But it's hard to get 5 grains or so of power to come fire-balling out of the end of a 10 inch barrel, no matter how slow it burns.

A Thompson is next on my list.

check out machinegunboards.com

they know literally everything there is to know

There might be one in the EE right now…

Thanks for the heads up. I am checking out that forum right now.

Over the past week or so I've been looking into Thompson's, particularly on current pricing. It seems like there is a lot of variation in pricing. I am particularly looking at West Hurley's and maybe GI Savages. The odd thing is, it seems like there is no shortage of West Hurley's in the low to mid 20 range. They were high teens 6 months ago. Can a GI Thompson be had in the 25K range? If so, isn't that the obvious best course of action in that price range?

I would stay away from West Hurleys.   Some of the prices may seem tempting, but they can be full of problems.  
Look for a USGI gun.

Sometimes the entire national supply of pre-1945 Thompson will dry up for a month or so, but there is ALWAYS a supply of WHs for sale.   Probably because they don't run.  

WHs are knock-offs that were made by small machine shops without blueprints in the 1970s.  They sometimes do run good, they can be gunsmithed and part-swapped to run good, but no matter what, make sure you see it run before you buy it.

Thompsons are extremely reliable, they just run and run.  If a Thompson doesn't run, it's either broken or a WH.

Yes, you can find nice minty arsenal-rebuilt USGI 1928s, 1928A1s, M1s and M1A1s in the $25k range.  Probably more like $25k to $30k.  Given that WHs are selling in the low 20s, it seems a no-brainer to buy a USGI gun.

The USGI guns are made to blueprint and run great.  

Make sure the gun is not a re-weld. Some of the Thompsons out there are two USGI receiver halves welded together, you can spot them by the line of bubbles and flaws in the sucktastical welds.

I think that the reason that WH prices are even as high as they are is because they look beautiful and the newbies don't seem to realize they are knock-offs with no collector value beyond their value as "shooters."

They do actually look really nice.  

Reuben always has a half dozen for sale at nosebleed prices and they keep selling.

The Tommy gun is long on fun and short on versatility. I'd rather have an MP5 in 9mm for all around cool, M16 for versatility, MAC for relative affordability.

That said I'd buy a Tommy before I bought anything in belt-fed. To me they scratch a lot of the same itch, especially if you have limited distance on your range. Main difference being you are likely to have thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds on a USGI Tommy.

I would generally agree that its better to buy a WW2 manufacturer produced 1928 (Savage or Bridgeport) over a West Hurley 1928 given there isn't a huge cost difference today.

That said many of the West Hurley's cosmetically look better than the WW2 1928 guns (with many WH still being NIB)  so I suspect that is part of the appeal to the uninformed buyer.    

The biggest issue with the 1928 West Hurley guns is that on many of the guns they didn't cut the blish lock cuts in the receiver correctly and it takes a lot of time/money to get those WH guns receivers corrected.  Many of the other issues with WH guns can be resolved by swapping in all WW2 USGI 1928 internals for the poor quality 1970/80s era repro parts.  If I was shopping for a WH Thompson, I would be more inclined to purchase an M1 as the receivers are much simpler as the M1s being straight blow back operation don't have blish locks cutouts in the receiver.  There are still some purported dimensional issue and not as robust receiver metalurgy in the WH M1s but the WH M1s seem to run much better out of the box or with modest USGI internal parts updates vs. the more complicated 1928 WH guns.

Personally I think some of the best deals on Thompsons are the Numrich Arms intact British Import 1928 /1928A1 Thompsons.  AKA NAC "Suffix" Serial Guns.   The reason they are priced less is because many of the NAC parts/crate guns (specifically the NAC prefix serial guns) are parts guns made in the 1940s and 50s from leftover Colt or WW2 produced material (receivers included) so they are a bit of a quality and pedigree mix-master.  

However Numrich Arms also imported fully intact original WW2 Savage Mfg. British Cash-Carry and/or Lend-Lease guns in the 1950s and 60s.   Many buyers and dealers struggle to really tell the difference between a NAC parts/crate gun and an intact WW2 British NAC import gun with the price of the parts/crate guns pulling down the price of the original intact import guns as many don't know how to tell the difference once a gun had NAC added to the receiver.

A lot of the online information on the Numrich "NAC" Thompsons guns is about the NAC prefix parts/crate guns as the story is much more interesting about building Post WW2 but pre WH Thompsons out of a mix of Colt, WW2 and new parts vs. importing intact live guns prior to the GCA off 68 which shut off imports of machineguns for commercial sale.

https://smallarmsreview.com/the-nac-thompson-guns-part-1/
https://smallarmsreview.com/the-nac-thompson-guns-part-2/

In general you can get an WW2 Savage manufactured NAC import 1928 or 1928A1 for not much more than a West Hurley 1928.  Midwest Tactical had a NAC import British Lend/Lease 1928A1 "US/ A1 overstamp" about a month back that was priced at $25K and had all of the USGI inspector (GEG and RLB) as well as British acceptance marks on it but didn't have a matching lower.  

My personal Thompson is a British cash/carry Savage manufacturer 1928 import gun with a matching upper/lower with all of the original British Woolwich Arsenal "Crown W" and "Broad Arrow" acceptance stamps as well as the Auto Ordnance WW2 "GEG" inspector markings on it.

Good luck on your Thompson search.

If someone wants "versatility" in an MG, they should definitely get an M16.   They'll be disappointed with anything else.

Some other guns have caliber conversions available, but it's nothing like an M16, which is an Erector Set of a gun.  

If you own an UZI, you can get a 45 upper and 45 mags and shoot 45 acp.  And you can get a 22 kit that may or may not decide to work.   But it's still the same gun.  Most people don't even bother with the caliber conversions.

The MACs have some upper options from Lage, but it's nothing even remotely close to the raging Niagara River of parts and conversions available for the M16/AR15 family.

I don't think that versatility governs the buying decision for most MG owners, or else the pricing would be different.  Browning BARs are $50k now and there isn't a single custom part for them.

This thread wasn't for the purpose of trying to push people towards getting a Thompson.  That's a matter of personal taste.  

I guess if I was to sum up what I wrote in this thread, it would be:

1. Thompsons prices are in a slump right now, so if you want one, get it.

2. Thompsons are a very reliable and "shootable" gun, and the negatives you hear about them are internet blah blah.

One of the things that always makes me snicker a little is when battle-proven guns like the Thompson, Bren, BAR, etc are the subject of youtube videos where a guy shoots a couple of mags and then declares the gun to be good or bad.

Because obviously, the opinion of a neckbeard on youtube outweighs the service record of a gun that was used at Stalingrad or Guadalcanal.

I got $850.00 burning a hole in my wallet.

Was able to shoot a semi-Thompson at the National Firearms Museum many years ago.  The ergonomics were terrible - as in I kept getting my big nose bopped.  But a full auto is still a grail gun if I ever have that kind of money.

I think it's a question of the ergonomics compared to modern guns - it's a 1st generation submachine gun, it's not going to be as comfortable to shoot as a modern gun.

I have to disagree with this notion.  Some old guns are really comfortable to shoot and some modern guns are not.

And it really depends on what the shooter is used to, and the body mechanics of the shooter.

It's impossible to make one gun fit every shooter perfectly.  

I have an UZI and I use the wooden IMI buttstock on it because I find the collapsible buttstock VERY uncomfortable.  Most people think it's fine.

Most people love 1911s, but I'm really tall and I have giant hands and I hate it.  On the other hand, big double-stack grips are perfect for me, the bigger, the better.

Wouldn't it be kind of stubborn for me to say, "The 1911 is a 1st generation autoloader, so the ergonomics suck."

Maybe it would be worthwhile to give shooting a Thompson another try, before you lay out all that money.  Because your body mechanics might just be out of its "range of applicability."

On the other hand, if you got one and after a while you decided that it really just doesn't fit you, you could always sell it.

Also -

You ever notice how they make military buttstocks kind of short?  Like on the Garand?  Or UZI?  That's because tall shooters can scooch up and shoot a short gun OK, but short guys really, really struggle to shoot a long buttstock well.

It surprises me that they left the LOP on the Thompson so long.  

They made 500,000 1928 Thompson models in early WWII.  Then they more or less completely redesigned the gun for the M1 models and made another 1.3 million.

You'd think that they would have shaved an inch off the buttstock when they made the M1, but nope, they left it long.  I guess all those short guys back then were fine with it.


The only actually user complaint (that I am aware of) with the Thompson was the Aussies who used the 1928s in Burma said that the endless rain and mud jammed up the blish mechanism.  But that would jam up any gun.  

One valid criticism of the Thompson would be that it was over-designed.  If you ever look over the 1921 Colt guns, you will see that every part is lovingly sculpted from billet and it's finished like a custom shop gun.  It's such overkill.  Gun collectors worship them for that reason, but it drove the original price to the moon.

I too have "shot them all"
As far as practical its hard to beat the M16.

Call me ancient but I LIKE the pucka pucka back and forth of a big bolt over the slick operation of an MP5 for example.
I prefer an UZI over an MP5 for the fun factor.

If ever sold one of the last will be a Thompson.

A NIB Hurly sold at Gunspot last Thursday for 18-19K.
IF you can afford it get a WW2 gun. They are "free" . Hows that ? You get all your money back and then some when you sell it. To me that's free.

Thanks for the heads up. Was the sale on gunspot in an auction format or did they price it at that amount for sale? I'd love a WWIi gun but honestly I'm hoping to spend in that 18k range which puts me firmly in WH territory. That is unless I run across a hell of a deal on a WWII gun for a few grand more.

A couple WH guns recently sold for high sale prices, in the low to mid 20's. Since then I now see a lot of Thompsons have hit the market, for sale.

It was an auction

https://www.gunspot.com/auction/16172/1928-west-hurley-thompson-machine-gun/

I don't know if you read through the whole thread, but I STRONGLY advise you to see a WH run before you buy it.  They are a copy that was made without blueprints and they can be troublesome.  They can also be made into good shooters.  

The sticking point is whether or not you need to have the receiver re-machined.  Some WH start running if you just swap the guts for USGI.  Some need a new barrel.  Some need extensive receiver re-work.

this is a great forum to get advice on WH buying:

https://www.machinegunboards.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21796-looking-at-getting-into-a-west-hurley-1928-thompson/

The only time you should ever see a Thompson jamming at all is if something is broken or the mag is bent, or you got bad ammo.  They run like a top.

Thank you very much for the advice on the WH guns. It drove the point Gome that the WH guns are a buyer beware proposition. It's good to have an idea of what fixing a Thompson receiver can cost and how long it takes to line up a smith to do it.

Thx. That is probably a better indicator of market value than the various sale posts I see where they are asking in the 20's. Unless there is something about the gun that makes it worth more like spare parts or being worked over by a well known smith.

Two issue with that particular gun from my point of view.

1. Its a WH that is unfired.  While normally "unfired" guns command a premium, in the WH Thompson world that is a red flag vs. a gun that has been reworked, parts swapped, and has decent mileage on it to prove that its not fucked and which will require thousands in parts and potentially years in labor wait to make it right.  In contrast a WH that has been shot and the ad says "Receiver has been reworked by Paul Krogh and all internals swapped with USGI parts" and now runs without issue will command a premium.

2. The other issue if you have ever bought guns from Midwest/Frank is that when it say "incoming" that means they just filed the paper Form 4 from whomever they bought it from.  That is why the pictures for a 18K gun auction have  it prominently displayed on the current owners celestial themed bedsheets, bathmat, and/or his toes in adidas shower slides in the background as Midwest doesn't actually have the gun in their inventory yet to take their own pictures.

So you are in store for a 3 to 6 month wait for that Form 4 to be approved before it even get shipped to Midwest.  They will then have to submit a Form 3 to your dealer.  A lot of folks  would rather buy a gun that is already in a dealers inventory and can immediately eForm 3 to their dealer.  (not wait months for the Form 4 to Midwest to be approved)

Those two issues also combined with not the greatest amount of traction on Franks Gunspot website (due to its not great format, challenges in getting registered, and some historically oddball bidding behavior) kept the price about ~10% lower than other sales in the low 20s.

Anyone try ammo valley 45 ACP 230gr RN New Small Primer?  It will not run at all in my TSMG.

I can speak up about WH since I do own one.
They are great shooters without worries of damaging a very expensive Thompson.
Many collectors don't really consider the WH much of a collectors item hence making it a great shooter.

However WH does have a history of QC issues. Many parts you want to replace with surplus parts due to the chance of breakage and injury. Easy to do.. I would say that having original parts is hard to find making it, funny enough, a collector item to some, but never to be used. Other issues include poorly milled/out of spec receivers. Some are not milled deep enough and others not enough. I think it is more of the former than the latter. I actually have one that was milled too deep.. Which runs great but it wears out the sear which causes it to not catch when worn. These things can be fixed, and there are people out there who do still, though a lot less of the old timers are still round.

You'll hear this has been checked out repaired by PK.. Great work and it will work. However if you want to have him check it out now, sadly he doesn't take news work anymore since he is retiring. There are still other gunsmiths  out there that are taking the mantle. (Alex I believe).

Any case don't compare a WH to a Colt.. Quality levels difference and you pay that price. You always want to get a video of it running unless you get a killer deal and risk needing repair. Note that not all WH are bad. You'll hear some people say it runs fine.

If you want to find out more, go to machinegun board forum. They have a lot of info on it.

Any case I'm running off of memory and may have some things wrong but I do like shooting a drum through mine.

Edit: Fixing grammar and auto misspellings

I would buy a WH if I knew it ran good and the price was really good.  

I love an ammo burner.  My UZI is a Vector.  It's a clone and I had to have all the welds re-welded.  Runs like a top now.

The risk of buying a WH is that the Thompson is a complicated gun.  The receiver isn't just a sheet metal tube, it's a piece of industrial art, a billet steel sculpture.  So there are only a handful of gunsmiths out there who can competently fix a bad problem like misaligned blish slots.

On the other hand, sometimes all they need is some USGI parts and they're GTG.

Just go into it with your eyes open.  The Thompson is a very reliable gun.  If one jams, it means that gun has a broken or out of spec part.