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Page Armory » GSG-5
Posted: 12/31/2009 6:14:42 PM EDT
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Part 1 ; Here is a simple mod that brings the little GSG up to an easy 25 rds that will lock in with a closed bolt. The left mag is unaltered and the right shows the mod as a follower reshape and a mag slide slot lengthening. Thats it. Christmas brought in 2 of these neat little guns.....yea, I just couldn't get one for my kid, I admit it, Im weak  .
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/christmas2009006.jpg

Part 2; This is one fun 22 to shed lead with!! But, as with every thing these days, the trigger flat out sucks. IMHO, GSG went WAY overboard with a fireing pin cross pin safety that is half the reason the triggers are nearly 6 lbs and extremely long and gritty in a 2 stage operation. Before I get into my reason for that statement, let me say my trigger now is a single stage, just under 5 lbs and relatively crisp. The internal castings are of extremely good fit quality making a tight tolerance trigger mod accurate and consistent. But here they built a RF with a trigger foward, fireing pin lock up! Great idea...as far as keeping the Lawyers from exagerated litigation $$$$, but historicaly, blow back rim fires have never gotten the "DA auto pistol" trigger safety treatments. So to give me myself a traditionaly nice clean target trigger.....I got rid of all the extra crap !  Yes, Yes, I know...confession and hail Marys ect, ect.  I DO NOT post this for the average Joe to go in over his head doing a trigger job, but it may be of benifit to the smiths out their wishing to "TARGET Tune" a GSG trigger. 1st to go is to remove the mag well safety bar and spring (pictured) so you can fire the gun without the mag inserted. 2nd is to remove the fireing pin cross bolt pin safety and spring (pictured). Also I found the firing pin spring is excesively strong, so I cliped 1.5 coils off just to head off some light hits once the fouling starts in. The sear angles are fair with overcocking present but since I take about 1/3rd of the sear off the hammer to shorten travel, and also reduce the second safety hammer notch by the same amount. I increased the sear angle engaugement to give a greater overcocking effect on the hammer. this automaticaly increases trigger wieght and safe function of the sear/ hammer relationship. Again, this is for the experianced trigger tuners out there! Next is to remove the top portion of the trigger slide plate as you see in the before and after pics. Lastly the slide plate spring gets shortened buy 2 coils and the bottom right slot hole gets mig welded so the plate does not alow the trigger its foward movement into a 1st pull stage. The weld is trimed to bring the plate right to the trigger fly as it sits in the begining of what used to be the second stage. Also, the weld will be trimmed to the right amount when there is no trigger drift back when you squeze the trigger with the safety on. Its important to keep the original sear tip and hammer sear notch positions to as close to there original positions as possible to maintain a "no safety creep" situation. The photo shows where the weld is although it is hard to see it cut and polished as if original. Earlier here there is a post of a set trigger mod that alows you to adjust the sear tip away from the hammer body. I personly would warn against that type of mod simply because the hammer locking up on the sear "should be" on the sear where it comes off the hammer body, not the tip of the hammer sear. the continual pounding on the sear tip "may" decrease the sear angle with time and lead to auto bursts. These are great 22s and with great accuracy potential... a good trigger goes a long way to that acheavement and I look foward to thousands of rds of target delight!!
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/gsg002.jpg
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu77/xtriggerman/gsg003.jpg


Link Posted: 12/31/2009 7:06:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Excellent post for your cherry!!! Perhaps even for this tweek'r that might be a bit much modding but hey if it results in a nice crisp job then....
I have done some permanent modding but not that extensive.
Link Posted: 12/31/2009 7:45:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the comment.  I still have my sons GSG to tune up and I think I will take some additional photos comparing a stock trigger and hammer sear and my moded one side by side. You know with the wide trigger face, I don't think I would want anything lighter than 4.5 lbs. Iv yet to put on a scope and bench the trigger results on paper. That will be yet another post. The bore "looks" like a top quality 22 bore. Iv relined many a old 22 barrel with Reding liners and these look to be equal in finish.  I just wish they made these mags in 30. When I used to do customer returns at Auto Ordnance back in 82, a well tuned Thompson 22 A3 auto would dump 30 rds in 2.8 seconds, I never had  more fun and got paid doing it !!!
Link Posted: 12/31/2009 11:23:11 PM EDT
[#3]
yeah that sounds like a helluva of job.....i would be sticking thomson's down my pants  Good point about the HUGE trigger face....first time i have had heard someone else ? this, why make a face so wide....even for a tactical/lead chunker. I will stayed tuned.
Link Posted: 1/1/2010 7:26:47 AM EDT
[#4]
yeah, i'll be trying the mag mod with my promag bodies on moday :D. that way it's no sweat if i mess up. I'll do the GSG ones when i perfect it.

nice idea.
Link Posted: 1/1/2010 11:12:52 AM EDT
[#5]
Just checking to see if my avatar is up, some thing VERY diferent
Link Posted: 1/2/2010 6:29:15 AM EDT
[#6]
I did a trigger job also and got rid of the mag safety.  All the mag safety does is make it harder to insert the mag.
Link Posted: 1/7/2010 1:24:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Folks, here are more details on making a GSG target style trigger. But before I go on, I must reiterate that any modifications to your trigger what so ever will void your warrenty and leave you lible in case of accidental discharge. This is a guide for the gunsmith who has "successfull" experience in tuning triggers. Here I tuned a older GSG and found that this particular fire control group had trigger movement with the safety on once the hammer and sear were sortened and re-angled. As stated in the photo, I can not stress enough that after the sear work ssteps, you need to install just the plastic safety, turn to ON and pull the trigger to see if the trigger moves back. If it does, you will have to tune the sear carrier as in the photo. I put a black dot on the area to be trimmed back very little at a time. removeing too much metal will result in the safety pushing the trigger foward off the ready to fire stage. The goal of this trigger job is to have virtualy no rear ward movement in the trigger at "on safe" and when the safety is turned off, the trigger stays put ready to give you a clean 4.5 ish LB. single crisp BANG movement. In other words completely opposite of what you have in a stock trigger.
 First lets start again with the hammer adjustments

Please note below that the hammer safety notch must be shortened nearly as much as the main hammer sear to allow the hammer a clear movement to the firing pin. Re-angling the safety notch face is not nessesary.

   The hammer is very hard so the shortening of the sears were done on a belt sander, rolling the cut for a slight radious to the shortened sear. About .020 is removed from the stock .050 sear hight. The re-angleing of the sear is to leave the very tip of the shortened sear with its unfaced casted surface but deepen the sear slightly as it comes out of the hammer body. This "sharper" sear angle will result in more hammer "over cocking" when the trigger is pull. A dimond triangle file with 1 sharp edge is needed to do this. What overcocking is, is the hammer must actualy cock back further from basic resting cocked possition when the trigger is being pulled. As stated earlier, stock, the over cocking is moderate, but in light of the fact we are shortening trigger travel (sear engaugement) a greater overcocking hammer movement is desierable for less possibility of accidental hammer drop and it gives a distinctive point in the trigger movement to build "weight" in its movement rather than spring tennsion. Good overcocking must first be established before you can zero in on the actual trigger pull wieght with spring shortening.


 These photos show the relationship of the re-angled trigger sear to stock. This refaceing compliments the modifyed hammer sear angle and should mate to the hammer as a nice tight lock up in cocked possition. Once the hammer and sear have been refaced and put back into the trigger frame showing a strong overcocking attribute, slide the safety into the safety hole and put it to the on possition. Pull on the trigger. You should see virtualy no trigger movement or more importantly , no sear movement. If you do have trigger movement (hopefull not enough for hammer drop), you need to examine the next photo carefully to remedy this potentialy dangerouse situation.

Removeing just the right amount by trial and error here will be of utmost importance in acheaveing a "SAFE" shooting semi auto such as in the in the pre litigation days.
The last photo goes into a bit more detail on the last step of tuneing the FCG.  The 2 things this mod acheaves is getting rid of that huge dragy first trigger pull stage. Cutting off the top part of the trigger rebound plate will leave the firing pin safety block in perpetual "locked" possition. I remedy that in the last segment by its removal. As the trigger sits in the frame at this point in the mod, it should be in a "ready to fire the hammer" possition. leave the plate spring out and you will see that welding up the lower right slot is the most direct and permanent way to hold the trigger right up to that trigger fly so you have absolutly no first stageing of the trigger. Again, the mig weld is blobed on and refaced ,then trimmed back untill the reboubd plate is not forceing sear movement and nor is it giving any free play to the trigger. I cut about 2 coils off the plate rebound spring and if all is done right that should bring you into an aproximate 4.5 lb trigger pull wieght.

A finished fire control group product !

Now the rest is easy. Pull the bolt/firing pin assembly apart buy first pulling out the tiny allen head screw holding in the firing pin . slide the firing pin out and then the firing pin cover. the firing pin cross bolt will come out easy and then I found that the firing pin can be tuned a bit here. Just drop the firing pin in place with its retaining pin.(no spring) and push the firing pin all the way foward. the top of the firing pin should be even with the bolt face. If your protrudes sligtly, trim it back untill is is flush with the bolt face. This will help the hammer from driving the firing pin into the barrel face during the occassional dry fire and it will give a slightly better hit when the fowling starts to get noticable. Also the firing pin spring is far heavier than any Iv ever seen! I snip 2 coils off the firing pin spring to help with stronger hits but, in order for the cliped spring end to not interfer with the firing pin movement, use a pair of needle nose plyers to bend the cliped coil to the center of the spring so it dose not end up jamming between the firing pin and cover. Well thats about it. Again you take on this tune up at your own risk of shooting malfunctions. But I can tell you, when done right.....WOW what a freckin difference! Oh, one more thing, make sure the little brass O ring washers on the plate are not rubbing on the plastic wall of the grip houseing. That drag on this last job brought the pull up to 5.5 lbs. After I ground the brass rings thiner, the pull wieght droped to the 4.5 lbs. Also polish the trigger fly engaugement of the plate and fly contact. Stock it is a rough stamped surface that gives a gritty trigger movement.
Link Posted: 1/8/2010 2:50:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for taking the time on that last reply esp. pal....super informative, and very well laid out.  I would def. make the effort if the expected results were somewhere ard. 3 to 3.5 lbs but for me anything over that is prob. not worth me hacking away.
Link Posted: 1/8/2010 7:36:14 AM EDT
[#9]
I hear you, my normal trigger pull for folks that are competant shooters/hunters on a bolt gun runs 3 to 3.5 lbs. On the GSG, the big wide trigger added to the erogonomic straight back trigger possition of the grip design makes the 4.5 lbs "feel" lighter than it actual is. But for the purists out there, much of the trigger pull wieght is in the trigger plate rebound spring and the sear carrier "reset" components. Basicaly what it takes for the trigger to move back foward and click back into the next shot. To lighten the trigger any further, the factory cast surfaces on those 2 or 3 parts would have to be stoned and polished and lubed.  Resaon for this is at 4.5 lb pull wieght, we are already working off a aproximately 1 lb trigger return wieght.  The next phase for a lighter trigger would be a sear carrier contact stone/polish/lube, test the retun wieght and clip the rebound spring back down to the minimum 1 ish wieght. That may get you under 4.  That said, I would need to reiterate that as far as a "reliable" semi auto trigger, its not so much in the weight as it is in the creep. First-ly loose the creep and THEN the factory 5.75 lb pull and this thing is light years ahead in the fun factor.
Link Posted: 1/8/2010 11:39:46 AM EDT
[#10]
You for sure know the mechanics of a trigger assembly i would say......as soon as anybody starts to take accuracy seriously they need to start imho with a trigger job.
Link Posted: 1/8/2010 8:56:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks Trident, Iv always loved the challenge of custom gun alteration work.  So much so, that as soon as I retire from my current state job in a couple of years, I will offer custom gunsmithing over the net and base some of it around a upgrade to your SKS to this (nearly same size as GSG) AK or VZ58 mag-ed hybrid. It will be fun building these 922r compliant guns. BATFE wants to see one before it can be approved for resale tho. Ill probably send them this prototype that you see here.
Page Armory » GSG-5
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