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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:35:27 PM EDT
[#1]
You can LOAD "Accelerators"?
Wow! I didn't know that was possible w/home reloading equipment. That's cool! AAR, please! |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 5:41:36 PM EDT
[#2]
What's their accuarcy and how is this different than shooting them out of a 22-250?
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Posted: 12/2/2012 6:27:59 PM EDT
[#3]
i bought the "SABOT starter kit" from these guys, located on the left of the page.
http://www.sabotreloadingpro.com/product/15223572 or http://www.polygunbag.com/.30CalSabotLargerView.html 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:05:55 PM EDT
[#4]
You do it for faster speeds. I picked up a box of once fired 308 brass and it was the factory accelerators. They show loaded with 55gr PSP bullets. A search came up with the factory velocity of 3770 for them.
I have the data from the company I ordered the sabots from and they show up to 4800 for the 308. They also had loads for the 300WinMag. I am going to try some out in my 300RUM. Another guy shared some loads with me, said he got to 6500fps, with medium pressure signs. He quit when one of the sabots went through his cronograph. I am going to try to rig up a piece of plexiglass in front of mine. I noted the loads suggested, including the ones the guy sent me, use a faster powder for the cartridge, due to the much lighter weight. He was using IMR4350 and said he had a lot of unburned powder after firing them. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 7:29:51 PM EDT
[#5]
I have played around with these, but without any data to go along with it, I still need to buy a chrono. Be forewarned, even with hearing protection, these sound like artillery going off.
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Posted: 12/2/2012 8:36:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I have played around with these, but without any data to go along with it, I still need to buy a chrono. Be forewarned, even with hearing protection, these sound like artillery going off. so they are stupid loud, any idea why? also i am guessing that it's a bad idea to shoot through a suppressor. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:01:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I have played around with these, but without any data to go along with it, I still need to buy a chrono. Be forewarned, even with hearing protection, these sound like artillery going off. Oh wow!  So in for more info about this! Since I'm deaf, the louder the stuff is, the more exicted I get! 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:42:13 PM EDT
[#8]
these look very very interesting to play around with. going to look into them some more. possible purchase some and work loads up and when the becomes above 30 degrees out, i will take all the big boy toys to the back yard and give them "the ole college try"
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:46:48 PM EDT
[#9]
The question is.... Can I do this out of my Mosin?
I've already loaded .308 projectiles in it using a different expander when sizing.
I honestly would try it 
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Posted: 12/2/2012 9:55:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have played around with these, but without any data to go along with it, I still need to buy a chrono. Be forewarned, even with hearing protection, these sound like artillery going off. so they are stupid loud, any idea why? also i am guessing that it's a bad idea to shoot through a suppressor. I would absolutely avoid running them through a can. My friend had jackets separating from dogtown 55s in an AR15. Dogtown states not to exceed 3200 IIRC. He was running close to 3400, and the jacket tore up the baffles. I don't know what speed most other 22 caliber projectiles can safely reach, but given a sabot load's velocity potential, it could be very costly. |
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Posted: 12/2/2012 11:41:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Ya I do NOT plan to shoot these through a can, just wanted to ask since I had this thread going.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 1:50:32 AM EDT
[#12]
If you find an accurate load/rifle come on back and report on it.
When Remington came out with these back in the late 70's/early 80's I tried the 30.06 and .308 versions in several 30.06 rifles, some very accurate rifles, with no success. Lousy groups at 25 yds. compared to the regular 30.06 ammo. I only had the one .308 (M1A) and they shot lousy groups in it, too. The best groups I ever saw fired with accelerators were from an old Savage pump 30-30. You could've head shot squirrels with that rifle. I gave up on them back then since 3" to 4" groups at 25 yds. made me feel bad. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 4:52:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Hey OP, that starter kit, how do I tell them what size sabota I want.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:09:07 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have played around with these, but without any data to go along with it, I still need to buy a chrono. Be forewarned, even with hearing protection, these sound like artillery going off. so they are stupid loud, any idea why? also i am guessing that it's a bad idea to shoot through a suppressor. because you are igniting a large amount of powder while pushing a very light projectile. And yes, bad idea passing it through a suppressor. the Sabot peels away and falls off, similar to a shotgun wad. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 5:10:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Hey OP, that starter kit, how do I tell them what size sabota I want. In the middle of the page, select what caliber you are loading it in, be sure to get the started kit with the crap-tastic "die" http://www.sabotreloadingpro.com/ |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 8:18:45 AM EDT
[#16]
DO NOT fire these through any form of muzzle brake, flash suppressor or silencer.... the sabot can bloom early and cause damage.
Accuracy with sabot rounds is typically dismal, which is why you don't see more of these around. ( I think Remington still makes some in 30/06 )Any I reloaded were not promising in the accuracy dept, so I gave up and spent my time on more accurate projects. A Google search on "Accelerator Ammo" will show more. Here is one thread...http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396544 They were fun to play with , but ultimately a waste of effort for me. |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:24:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Hey OP, that starter kit, how do I tell them what size sabota I want. ya after i ordered i realized that, guess i'll just have to wait for it to get there and see. i am emailing them now though. yes i have read that these are not very accurate, this is just something i want to load up for the hell of it, figured i would shoot some varmint 5.56 at 5,000fps into water bottles or something soft to watch it explode. or what ever the fastest i can go with out the bullet coming apart. i plan to shoot these out of my rem700 24in barrel and i will take the vortex flash hider off just in-case. so what do people here recommend for a bullet that can stay together at 5,000fps or more? i have a few green tips around that i think could handle that but what do you guys think would be a good varmint type bullet? |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:26:03 AM EDT
[#18]
I kind of want to get a SS109 going FAST and hit my AR500 with it, just to see
For $20 for the starting kit, I think its worth it.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:26:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I kind of want to get a SS109 going FAST and hit my AR500 with it, just to see For $20 for the starting kit, I think its worth it.where abouts in PA are you? |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 9:27:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Eastern, but Im currently in Central PA at school.
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Posted: 12/3/2012 2:45:10 PM EDT
[#21]
If I were to revisit this concept today, with the much larger selection of bullets available....
My choices would be some of the stronger bullets made for .223/5.56. I could see the varmint bullets ( designed for approx. 3700 fps max. virtually vaporize on target when going 4200 fps) so that doesn't really interest me. If I remember correctly the sabots are meant to be used with 55 grainish size bullets with a boat tail.... Hornady 55gr FMJ, Speer 55gr Gold Dots, Whichever Barnes X-Bullet that would fit,Sierra Gameking 55gr SP and HP, Nosler BT 55gr, TBBC 55gr.... |
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Posted: 12/3/2012 3:34:09 PM EDT
[#22]
I would also love to try these in gelatin
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Posted: 12/5/2012 10:00:42 PM EDT
[#23]
this showed up today
gonna have to mess around with it this week or weekend maybe |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 4:59:43 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
this showed up today http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n223/sardo_67/9A3F368B-3D39-4CEB-A859-BDA6303D2C56-5055-000003DD4B378171.jpg gonna have to mess around with it this week or weekend maybe FYI, I have found these are easier to seat in the case if you take some sand paper and put a mild boat tail on them. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 6:03:14 AM EDT
[#25]
I would imagine these are very rough on the throat of your barrel.
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Posted: 12/6/2012 8:46:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I would imagine these are very rough on the throat of your barrel. how is plastic worse than jacketed bullets? |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:10:33 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would imagine these are very rough on the throat of your barrel. how is plastic worse than jacketed bullets? Possibly bcause you may use a higher powder charge than with "normal" 308 bullets? |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 10:43:30 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
If you find an accurate load/rifle come on back and report on it. When Remington came out with these back in the late 70's/early 80's I tried the 30.06 and .308 versions in several 30.06 rifles, some very accurate rifles, with no success. Lousy groups at 25 yds. compared to the regular 30.06 ammo. I only had the one .308 (M1A) and they shot lousy groups in it, too. The best groups I ever saw fired with accelerators were from an old Savage pump 30-30. You could've head shot squirrels with that rifle. I gave up on them back then since 3" to 4" groups at 25 yds. made me feel bad. The twist is all wrong - not fast enough to stabilize the small projectiles. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:13:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you find an accurate load/rifle come on back and report on it. When Remington came out with these back in the late 70's/early 80's I tried the 30.06 and .308 versions in several 30.06 rifles, some very accurate rifles, with no success. Lousy groups at 25 yds. compared to the regular 30.06 ammo. I only had the one .308 (M1A) and they shot lousy groups in it, too. The best groups I ever saw fired with accelerators were from an old Savage pump 30-30. You could've head shot squirrels with that rifle. I gave up on them back then since 3" to 4" groups at 25 yds. made me feel bad. The twist is all wrong - not fast enough to stabilize the small projectiles. what twist and barrel length are you thinking would work? |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:51:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would imagine these are very rough on the throat of your barrel. how is plastic worse than jacketed bullets? Possibly bcause you may use a higher powder charge than with "normal" 308 bullets? Throat erosion is caused by the powder, not the bullet. I know that 22-250s and other overbore cartridges eat barrels 2x as fast as 308. I imagine the same would apply to Sabots |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 11:57:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you find an accurate load/rifle come on back and report on it. When Remington came out with these back in the late 70's/early 80's I tried the 30.06 and .308 versions in several 30.06 rifles, some very accurate rifles, with no success. Lousy groups at 25 yds. compared to the regular 30.06 ammo. I only had the one .308 (M1A) and they shot lousy groups in it, too. The best groups I ever saw fired with accelerators were from an old Savage pump 30-30. You could've head shot squirrels with that rifle. I gave up on them back then since 3" to 4" groups at 25 yds. made me feel bad. The twist is all wrong - not fast enough to stabilize the small projectiles. what twist and barrel length are you thinking would work? The same as in a factory 223 barrel: 1:7-1:9. Typical .30 caliber twist rate is 1:10. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:01:38 PM EDT
[#32]
I still havent ordered, and now I'm wondering, do these sabots cover the base of the bullet? Meaning my 64gr tracers wont actually be tracers?
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Posted: 12/6/2012 12:08:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I still havent ordered, and now I'm wondering, do these sabots cover the base of the bullet? Meaning my 64gr tracers wont actually be tracers? yes. They are designed like a small cup. Tracers would be pointless. Think of the Sabots like a shotgun wad. They carry the projectile out of the barrel, then peel back and fall to the ground. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:32:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I still havent ordered, and now I'm wondering, do these sabots cover the base of the bullet? Meaning my 64gr tracers wont actually be tracers? They would be very long, I have 55gr tracers that would probably work the long 64s may be harder to stabilize. Tracers may not be pointless, if you are shooting steel they may react and put on a light show. Not sure though. |
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Posted: 12/6/2012 2:41:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I still havent ordered, and now I'm wondering, do these sabots cover the base of the bullet? Meaning my 64gr tracers wont actually be tracers? They would be very long, I have 55gr tracers that would probably work the long 64s may be harder to stabilize. Tracers may not be pointless, if you are shooting steel they may react and put on a light show. Not sure though. Oh, they do put on a lightshow. Just wondering if I could get tracers to work in my mosin
Lightshow: (screen cap from video) 
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Posted: 12/6/2012 7:49:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I still havent ordered, and now I'm wondering, do these sabots cover the base of the bullet? Meaning my 64gr tracers wont actually be tracers? They would be very long, I have 55gr tracers that would probably work the long 64s may be harder to stabilize. Tracers may not be pointless, if you are shooting steel they may react and put on a light show. Not sure though. Oh, they do put on a lightshow. Just wondering if I could get tracers to work in my mosin
Lightshow: (screen cap from video) http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/InfiniteGrim/Capture-37.png oh wow, never seen that before, mine just bounded off a rock and caught the woods on fire |
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Posted: 12/7/2012 8:49:21 AM EDT
[#37]
I would be concerned about plastic filling your rifling after 5 ot 10 rounds. I say this because my Browning BPS is laser acurrate for a slug gun (2" at 100 yards) for the first 4 rounds. After that it starts to spread out. We have discovered it is because after 4 to 6 rounds there is too much plastic in the rifling of the 5" rifled choke.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:44:42 PM EDT
[#38]
How long did your sabots take to show up?
I also emailed the guy, and he told me the dies and sabots are all the same. |
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:06:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Probably less than a week. I don't remember really.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:38:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Probably less than a week. I don't remember really. I think mine showed up after 3-4 days, it was pretty quick. |
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Posted: 12/14/2012 6:24:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Probably less than a week. I don't remember really. I think mine showed up after 3-4 days, it was pretty quick. That actually sounds about right. I know mine got here a lot faster than I expected. |
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:50:47 AM EDT
[#42]
I've also played with these in the past. As many reported, fast speeds, and the accuracy of a drunk major league pitcher. :)
The sabot will start to open the instant it leaves the confines of the barrel, so as stated, no muzzle brake, flash hider, and definitively not a suppressor, unless you want to see it spontaneously and energetically removed, and possibly dissembled. :) (Nothing good can come of it, even it if doesn't launch itself downrange) Had not considered the fact that the twist was designed for an entirely different projectile. wonder where I can find a old .308 barrel in a 1:12 twist. :) Cheers! Onyx 
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Posted: 12/28/2012 9:55:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Got my kit in, and it came with .308 and .30-06 data.
Unfortunetly my reloading bench is in boxes, but I might have to setup it up to load some 7.62x54 sabots
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Posted: 1/8/2013 9:08:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Got my kit in, and it came with .308 and .30-06 data. Unfortunetly my reloading bench is in boxes, but I might have to setup it up to load some 7.62x54 sabots there was a guy around on some forum doing that, had some interesting results. ok i asked this in another thread and was pretty much called an idiot so, why can i not load SABOTS into a 300BLK case with pistol powder to get it over 4000fps? it will have the right barrel twist and eliminate the accuracy problems mentioned earlier. if that's a horrible idea feel free to say so but explain why it is. |
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Posted: 1/8/2013 9:12:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Besides case volume and barrel length I dont know.
I think the volume of the case is the key. I'm assuming the pressure increase with case volume decrease is not a linear relationship. |
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Posted: 1/8/2013 9:26:40 PM EDT
[#46]
it's a lighter projectile though so it should just push it faster out the barrel. hense why if you loaded a 220gr 308 bullet in a BLK case filled with say Lil Gun it may blow up but the same powder charge with a 55-60gr bullet sabot combo will move out the barrel instead... am i close to right on that?
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Posted: 1/8/2013 9:55:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
it's a lighter projectile though so it should just push it faster out the barrel. hense why if you loaded a 220gr 308 bullet in a BLK case filled with say Lil Gun it may blow up but the same powder charge with a 55-60gr bullet sabot combo will move out the barrel instead... am i close to right on that? Well look at the load data for .300 blackout. It isn't capable of pushing .308 bullets at the speed of a .308 rifle, so your not going to beable to get 4000fps. Maybe 3xxxfps |
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Posted: 1/9/2013 6:18:42 PM EDT
[#48]
double post
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Posted: 1/9/2013 6:20:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Got my kit in, and it came with .308 and .30-06 data. Unfortunetly my reloading bench is in boxes, but I might have to setup it up to load some 7.62x54 sabots there was a guy around on some forum doing that, had some interesting results. ok i asked this in another thread and was pretty much called an idiot so, why can i not load SABOTS into a 300BLK case with pistol powder to get it over 4000fps? it will have the right barrel twist and eliminate the accuracy problems mentioned earlier. if that's a horrible idea feel free to say so but explain why it is. Same reason posted the last time you asked. 300 blk is a 223 shortened about a half inch and turned (necked) into a 30 cal round. If you want to shoot 22 cal bullets fast, use 223. A 223 will not get you to 4000 fps, so how will a shortened 223 case (300 blk) get you to 4000 fps? It's ok to ask about it, just won't work. eta, using pistol powder in 300 blk will not make a difference. |
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Posted: 1/9/2013 6:43:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same reason posted the last time you asked. 300 blk is a 223 shortened about a half inch and turned (necked) into a 30 cal round. If you want to shoot 22 cal bullets fast, use 223. A 223 will not get you to 4000 fps, so how will a shortened 223 case (300 blk) get you to 4000 fps? It's ok to ask about it, just won't work. eta, using pistol powder in 300 blk will not make a difference. It might make a difference in whether someone gets to keep all their fingers.
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