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Posted: 10/9/2015 4:07:21 PM EST
I've been researching Lyman's M-dies to help with improving my progressive loading setup. I've managed to come up with more questions than I found answers.
First, it seems that Lyman has different die body lengths, and of course different expander plugs for various calibers, and I'm kind of confused about this. I plan to use these dies for loading multiple .308 caliber rounds (.30 Carbine, 300 Blackout, .30-06, .308, maybe .30-30), so it looks like I might have to buy two (or more) different dies, even though the only difference that applies to the M-die is the die length. Can I simply adjust the M-die for the different case lengths, or is it actually necessary to buy different complete dies for these calibers? I will also want to use an M-die for loading .223, so would that mean another complete die, or might I be able to use the appropriate length M-die body and just buy a .224 expander plug? When one uses an M-die, does one still use the sizing die's expander ball? I can't see how you could avoid it if you deprime when you size, but I like to have this sort of detail explained to me in short sentences with small words. 
Also, N.O.E. Bullet Molds makes inserts for use with Lee's "Universal Neck Expanding Die", which replace Lee's conical expanders to make the Lee die "a true neck expander like a Lyman M-die." It looks like that's a viable alternative to the (confusing to me) variety of Lyman die options. I'd like to hear from folks who have used this setup |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 4:49:45 PM EST
[#1]
Lyman M-dies are mostly used for loading lead bullets in bottle necked cases to bell them for easier loading
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Posted: 10/9/2015 7:57:21 PM EST
[#2]
Mostly, yes, but with a rifle bullet feeding system, a little bell helps a lot. For example, I'm getting set up to use the Ponsness/Warren Bullet Seating Die. To make bullet seating smoother, a lot of P/W loading machine users apply a slight bell to the case using an M-die or other method, even (maybe especially) with jacketed bullets. Look at the video angus6 posted of how smooth this die is with his progressive press - he uses an M-die in his brass prep. That smoothness is what I'm aiming for.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2015 8:49:18 PM EST
[#3]
Lyman M dies work great for all sorts of applications. They sell 2 lengths of 30cal because Lyman only seems to know how to make one ugly orange box to put them in and a long die with super long mandrel (to reach the shorter cases) would not fit in their box. I use for 223 and multiple 30cal applications since I use a lot of flat base bullets and tend to run with bullet feeder. Makes it nice to have bullet a place to sit without falling. I have both 30 cal versions. Happy I got them.. Amazed how many times I have used..
Keep in mind they have 2 settings.. When the insert is screwed down just enough to enter case mouth, you are only opening enough for bullet to enter easier. If you screw it down enough, you start to flare the mouth a bit. At that point, you absolutely need a crimp. Unfortunately, you almost need a good flare if using bullet feeder with flat base bullets. For rifle on progressive press, this may mean you need to decide about getting rid of something since you may not have space (1050 needs an 8th position IMO) since I wont give up powder check die. I seat and crimp in same position now. Sux For cast? havent used. Dont see a reason for cast pistol bullets. Buying it just means you chose your die set poorly. A good die set will have a good expander. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 8:58:15 PM EST
[#4]
I'm using the Lee expander dies without problem in 300 blk, 7.62x39, and 30-30 with cast bullets.
How would the M die be better? Never had or used one, just curious. Loading these single stage. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2015 9:32:30 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
I'm using the Lee expander dies without problem in 300 blk, 7.62x39, and 30-30 with cast bullets. How would the M die be better? Never had or used one, just curious. Loading these single stage. Are you comparing to Lee universal expander? That one is all taper. I used for 300BO. Works well. But then gave up 300BO with cast. M die had the two stages as I mentioned in my other post. Not just the part that flares. Not an expert but that is my interpretation. I like it because sometimes you feel like there is too much neck tension from your sizing die for particular bullets. I will run M die in an early station to open it back up. My Redding 300 Win Mag die do that with some Nosler partition bullets. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 11:27:14 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djryan13: Are you comparing to Lee universal expander? That one is all taper. I used for 300BO. Works well. But then gave up 300BO with cast. M die had the two stages as I mentioned in my other post. Not just the part that flares. Not an expert but that is my interpretation. I like it because sometimes you feel like there is too much neck tension from your sizing die for particular bullets. I will run M die in an early station to open it back up. My Redding 300 Win Mag die do that with some Nosler partition bullets. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By djryan13: Originally Posted By dryflash3: I'm using the Lee expander dies without problem in 300 blk, 7.62x39, and 30-30 with cast bullets. How would the M die be better? Never had or used one, just curious. Loading these single stage. Are you comparing to Lee universal expander? That one is all taper. I used for 300BO. Works well. But then gave up 300BO with cast. M die had the two stages as I mentioned in my other post. Not just the part that flares. Not an expert but that is my interpretation. I like it because sometimes you feel like there is too much neck tension from your sizing die for particular bullets. I will run M die in an early station to open it back up. My Redding 300 Win Mag die do that with some Nosler partition bullets. Yes I guess I don't understand the advantage of the second stage. I have complete control of bullet sizing (lots of Lee sizing dies) and have no trouble with neck tension. Don't know about the part in green either. Why not size once correctly? (not trying to dog you, just want to understand) |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 12:43:20 AM EST
[#7]
If You are trimming.223, or forming 300 BO with the Dillon trimmer, it has no expander ball. So after trimming I use the M die to resize the neck, screw it down a little further and it will resize the neck and expand the mouth so the case mouth has a little flare to accept the bullet.
Highly recommended by Rick, inventor of the Mr Bulletfeeder. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 1:06:23 AM EST
[#8]
The "M" die expands the case neck just like any other neck expander but instead of just putting a simple flair on the mouth it creates a short oversize step with square bottom. This is awesome for getting cast bullets to enter the case without trying to kick sideways. You can adjust even farther down and create a bell mouth also but I never do because I'm using a single stage press.
If you are using the"M" die or any neck expander you need to make sure you are using the correct size expander. I wouldn't use the standard "30" for jacketed bullets. Its best used with .309 or .310" cast bullets and probably will give you less neck tension and a crimp is not a good substitute for poor neck tension. BTW: Most factory ammo is crimped. BUT the reason it is crimped was to remove the mouth flair. 
Motor |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2015 6:46:48 AM EST
[#9]
Incidentally, that step flare works marvelously for jacketed bullets too.
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Posted: 10/10/2015 9:11:51 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChevelleDave:
If You are trimming.223, or forming 300 BO with the Dillon trimmer, it has no expander ball. So after trimming I use the M die to resize the neck, screw it down a little further and it will resize the neck and expand the mouth so the case mouth has a little flare to accept the bullet. Highly recommended by Rick, inventor of the Mr Bulletfeeder. I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 10:23:18 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By atblis:
Incidentally, that step flare works marvelously for jacketed bullets too. Definitely yes. I have loaded and still load some very flat base rifle bullets that an "M" die would be great for. Just to clarify my post above: I wouldn't use the"30" expander for .308" diameter jacketed bullets. I think it would take away some of the neck tension. Since I'm pretty heavily into shooting cast bullets in pistols now I may have to look into some pistol "M" dies. I think it would nearly eliminate those big flat base bullets from being seated crooked. Yeah it would do the same for jacketed too but you have to use the right size. Motor |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 10:50:51 AM EST
[#12]
I am using the M die for .30 Carbine. I load RMR plated bullets and the M die helps to make sure they start straight and the plating isn't damaged. The M die works very well in this application.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2015 11:37:54 AM EST
[#13]
This sounds like a perfect addition for loading those Hornady 55gr soft points.
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Posted: 10/10/2015 11:54:01 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edgephoto:
I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edgephoto:
Originally Posted By ChevelleDave:
If You are trimming.223, or forming 300 BO with the Dillon trimmer, it has no expander ball. So after trimming I use the M die to resize the neck, screw it down a little further and it will resize the neck and expand the mouth so the case mouth has a little flare to accept the bullet. Highly recommended by Rick, inventor of the Mr Bulletfeeder. I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? I'd just spend a few bucks and get a M die. I say that because with a regular neck sizing die, You will be working the brass an extra time. The less You work it, the better. Somebody with more experience then Me, might be a better judge of that then I though. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 12:24:22 PM EST
[#15]
From Lymans web page,
Improves accuracy of cast and jacketed bullet reloads. Doesn't stretch cases as does standard expander button. Extends case life. A "Must-Have" die for the cast bullet or flat-base bullet user. The first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter for precise case neck tension in the finished reload. The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over. This allows the jacketed or cast bullet to be started perfectly centered in the case mouth and properly aligned with the axis of the case neck. Note: By adjusting the neck expanding plug slightly deeper, the second step also provides a slight flaring of the case mouth for reloaders using cast bullets. Also has a guide telling You which "M" die for which caliber. Lyman "M" die |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 8:29:17 PM EST
[#16]
So.... Back to my questions...
Has anyone used N.O.E.'s inserts for Lee's expander? It looks like it should work well, but I'd like to know if there are drawbacks compared to using Lyman's stuff. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 8:29:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#17]
good point on it being kinder to the brass than a typical expander ball;
normal dies; expander goes in stretching the neck if not already wide from being shot, neck then goes into sizing portion in the die, generally over resizing the neck, then on extraction from the die the expander is pulled up through the neck again, popping it out to finished size for adequate neck tension. With the M die the expansion is done on the way down, you really can't get the neck pull that an expander can on the way out, the ones that sometimes insidiously distort what you're trying to set, especially the shoulders and headspace. I use them for cast .30 cal bullets. I have not used them for pistol lead loads as I do fine with the normal .357 dies that will flare the mouth. Nope, I didn't know NOE made them. The only similar tool I've used are the Sinclair expanders for turning necks. They are just straight mandrels no flaring step. GH, Al from NOE has his own cast bullet website, a quick google has a lot of posts discussing them. You might find some feedback to help you there. |
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Posted: 10/10/2015 10:02:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: angus6]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ImFarmerTed:
This sounds like a perfect addition for loading those Hornady 55gr soft points. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ImFarmerTed:
This sounds like a perfect addition for loading those Hornady 55gr soft points. yep it's killer for flat base bullets For rifle on progressive press, this may mean you need to decide about getting rid of something since you may not have space (1050 needs an 8th position IMO) since I wont give up powder check die. I seat and crimp in same position now. Sux I started out using the powder check dies with my 1050 but soon quit as I run ball or short extruded powders and for me I have found no need for the powder check I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? I like the option of putting that slight step in the mouth if you find that of no use and don't mind working the brass a little more then the neck die should work |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2015 11:25:48 PM EST
[#19]
Quick answer.... sometimes the sizing die just doesn't do it's job like you want it to for some bullets. Nosler Partion in my 300WM are a prime example. Haven't debugged it yet. I should call redding but to be honest, I get good enough accuracy and don't shoot it enough lately to care. If I don't use the M die, I get shavings of the bullets. I don't even use a crimp on this bullet... neck tension is perfect. Not sure what others are complaining about. I am quite happy. Maybe I am wrong. Don't care. Works. A friend reloads with me. He took an Elk last month in Missouri with the round. Good enough. (oops, that was longer answer than expected).
Long answer.. I have seen a lot of better explanations in this thread about the benefits of the die. It really is great. I couldn't reload Hornady 55 SP's on my 1050 with a bullet feeder without it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Yes I guess I don't understand the advantage of the second stage. I have complete control of bullet sizing (lots of Lee sizing dies) and have no trouble with neck tension. Don't know about the part in green either. Why not size once correctly? (not trying to dog you, just want to understand) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By djryan13:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I'm using the Lee expander dies without problem in 300 blk, 7.62x39, and 30-30 with cast bullets. How would the M die be better? Never had or used one, just curious. Loading these single stage. Are you comparing to Lee universal expander? That one is all taper. I used for 300BO. Works well. But then gave up 300BO with cast. M die had the two stages as I mentioned in my other post. Not just the part that flares. Not an expert but that is my interpretation. I like it because sometimes you feel like there is too much neck tension from your sizing die for particular bullets. I will run M die in an early station to open it back up. My Redding 300 Win Mag die do that with some Nosler partition bullets. Yes I guess I don't understand the advantage of the second stage. I have complete control of bullet sizing (lots of Lee sizing dies) and have no trouble with neck tension. Don't know about the part in green either. Why not size once correctly? (not trying to dog you, just want to understand) |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2015 11:35:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: Echd]
[#20]
Far preferable to the M Dies to me are the NOE expander plugs.
You use a Lee expander body, but swap out the plugs to the NOE plugs. The advantage of this type of expander is that instead of expanding the neck like a pistol might (tapering expanders "belling" the mouth) you get a perfect expansion. With the NOE plugs it is also easy to adjust. You use plugs based on this chart 
The multiple "steps" on the plugs allow it to serve multiple diameters. The advantage of the NOE system over the M dies is cost, mainly, and the convenience of having one or a few plugs to serve many sizes. Highly recommended with lead or especially coated lead bullets. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 1:58:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: ChevelleDave]
[#21]
From what I see from looking at a Lee die, and the NOE plugs, compared to the M die, looks like the same thing.
Actually, looks like it would be better deal, one die body, multiple plugs for multiple calibers, if I didn't already own the M die, I would prolly go that way. Fact, I might try one when I figure out what I need for loading cast, if My M die size is not appropriate. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 2:03:27 AM EST
[#22]
Forgot to add, I don't understand the "D" diameter? is it just a stop?
For .308, I understand the .307 neck size, then the .311 for the flare, but You would never step it all the way up to .336? |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 3:44:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: Motor1]
[#23]
The .336 step is probably used to create a mouth flair?
I don't know how the "M"die for rifle saves any brass working unless you are using a size die that you can remove the expander from. Besides what difference does it make? Unless you can control how much your size die is reducing the neck diameter it's still being worked the same amount weather you pull the expander ball though then expand it more with another die like a M die or just expand it with the M die alone. In fact it may be eaiser on the brass to do it with 2 steps. Using the regular expander ball then running in the M die. BTW: If your neck expander ball is doing any expanding on the up stroke with fired brass you must be shooting mouse farts loads. Motor |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 8:07:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: TZ250]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Motor1:
The .336 step is probably used to create a mouth flair? I don't know how the "M"die for rifle saves any brass working unless you are using a size die that you can remove the expander from. Besides what difference does it make? Unless you can control how much your size die is reducing the neck diameter it's still being worked the same amount weather you pull the expander ball though then expand it more with another die like a M die or just expand it with the M die alone. In fact it may be eaiser on the brass to do it with 2 steps. Using the regular expander ball then running in the M die. BTW: If your neck expander ball is doing any expanding on the up stroke with fired brass you must be shooting mouse farts loads. Motor This is in fact how I process my 5.56 brass. Since the brass has to make two trips across the progressive I use the space to segregate operations. I use the homemade case lube (IsoHEET, lanolin with a shot of castor oil). First trip. Station 1 is de-cap. Station 2 is Redding Type S FL bushing die with the expander removed so the neck is not disturbed after the bushing. Station 3 empty. Station 4 is a Lyman .223 neck die adjusted so the die body never touches the case. Only the floating carbide expander touches the neck and this is done on the ram upstroke so the expander does not pull on the case neck and shoulder. Since I am able to control how much the neck is sized down in station 2, I can work the brass the minimum amount to get the proper neck tension. The cases then go to trim/tumble Second trip. Load. I am getting great life out of my brass, with next to zero neck splits after 10 loadings with no annealing. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2015 8:25:24 AM EST
[#25]
I run a PW... I am not confident enough to get rid of powder check die. It's too damn hard to see the powder with the powder die all the way in back. One of my list of why the 1050 is not the best.
I use mostly ball and short extruded too. I just don't trust the machine. I guess I can get a mirror or video camera going on it.. But not the same. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
yep it's killer for flat base bullets I started out using the powder check dies with my 1050 but soon quit as I run ball or short extruded powders and for me I have found no need for the powder check I like the option of putting that slight step in the mouth if you find that of no use and don't mind working the brass a little more then the neck die should work Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By angus6:
Originally Posted By ImFarmerTed:
This sounds like a perfect addition for loading those Hornady 55gr soft points. yep it's killer for flat base bullets For rifle on progressive press, this may mean you need to decide about getting rid of something since you may not have space (1050 needs an 8th position IMO) since I wont give up powder check die. I seat and crimp in same position now. Sux I started out using the powder check dies with my 1050 but soon quit as I run ball or short extruded powders and for me I have found no need for the powder check I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? I like the option of putting that slight step in the mouth if you find that of no use and don't mind working the brass a little more then the neck die should work |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2015 8:33:44 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChevelleDave:
Forgot to add, I don't understand the "D" diameter? is it just a stop? For .308, I understand the .307 neck size, then the .311 for the flare, but You would never step it all the way up to .336? It serves as a stop for most cases but is also an appropriate expander for some calibers. |
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Posted: 10/11/2015 8:57:07 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ChevelleDave:
Forgot to add, I don't understand the "D" diameter? is it just a stop? For .308, I understand the .307 neck size, then the .311 for the flare, but You would never step it all the way up to .336? I'm spitballing not being the designer but I would say that gives you the neck sizing, the step up for the bullet, and then D gives you a bit of a belling action should you want to use it. If you didn't you would just leave that set above the case neck. |
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Posted: 10/12/2015 5:08:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: GHPorter]
[#28]
I've done more digging, and kind of answered some of my own questions.
From THIS page, I've found details about the M-die's structure. Basically it has a die body, a threaded adjustment stem, and an expander plug that threads into the stem. There are two sizes of die bodies, long and short. There are two lengths of adjustment stems, too, also long and short, but the expander plugs are interchangeable in both stems. They have some (only a few) Lyman part numbers collected here too, and a phone number to Lyman for ordering the individual parts. This page is quite clear in pointing out that the M-die helps prevent shaving metal from either cast OR jacketed bullets during seating, and they copy some of Lyman's graphics that detail how use of the M-die helps starting bullets straight in the case. On THIS page, is some very good stuff. One big thing I got was that you CAN use any stem/plug in either die body, which also means you CAN do every caliber with just the short body - the long body won't get the plug far enough down to work on shorter cases. (I think the author of this page got the "M1" and "M2" reversed at the top, since it doesn't match his table on the lower part of the page.) The first page also links to N.O.E.'s products. The diameters associated with the N.O.E. plugs are pretty much the same as for the Lyman plugs, at least for the diameters I've looked at. One interesting item N.O.E. has is a powder-through plug with similar steps to their regular plugs - these are an awful lot like Hornady's PTX inserts. Sadly, N.O.E. doesn't have one for .30-.32 caliber applications like .30 carbine and .32 Auto... I've pretty much concluded that I'm going with the Lee die and the N.O.E. plugs, though I might try to contact the Lyman folks and order the stems I would need (the first page says Lyman sells the stems for $6.50, just like N.O.E.'s plugs...) first. If Lyman is easy for me to deal with (not just good customer service, but customer service I can reach by phone when I can make phone calls), I'll go with them instead. [[]Edited to fix the second link.[/i] |
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Posted: 10/12/2015 7:11:11 PM EST
[#29]
I ordered one off the LEE expander dies to try out for pistol, since I only own the M die's in .223 and the one that is recommended for 300 BO.
Maybe try some of the NOE inserts if I read some good things about them. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:34:36 AM EST
[#30]
Bump to bring back to page one.
This is the thread that motivated me to try the M die. They work very well, used one today when loading cast powder coated bullets in 30-30. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:42:19 AM EST
[#31]
I have M-style powder funnels for my Dillon, but I hate using them. Even with case lube they stick badly and make the press thump a ton. I guess it makes placing the bullet a bit easier, but it isn't worth it IMO.
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:43:26 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thormx538:
I have M-style powder funnels for my Dillon, but I hate using them. Even with case lube they stick badly and make the press thump a ton. I guess it makes placing the bullet a bit easier, but it isn't worth it IMO. |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 12:52:06 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Are you loading wet tumbled brass? I've tried it with wet tumbled (using Dawn, and also using car wash/wax) with and without lube, and dry tumbled with and without lube. Dry tumbled brass that is lubed worked the best, wet tumbled with Dawn was the worst (as expected), I think they may work OK if you sort by headstamp and lube the cases well and get it adjusted perfectly, but the variances in case wall thickness with mixed brass makes it almost impossible. You may have a few run OK, then you get to one that requires significant pressure to get off of the expander. I tried slow deliberate upstrokes as well as rapid ones, and couldn't find a happy balance. I did try polishing the funnel too, and it didn't really improve anything. I pulled and measured bullets on cases belled using just the normal Dillon funnel and I never witnessed any swaging of the bullet. Nor did I find that the M-style expanded had any less of a chance of some Alox being squeezed out during seating. The bullets do sit nice and consistently upright on the cases expanded with the M-style funnel though. This was all with straight walled pistol cases (9mm, .40SW/10mm, and 45ACP) |
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Posted: 2/26/2017 2:02:18 PM EST
[#34]
If you are using wet tumbled brass there is an easy fix. It's been posted many times by me and others.
Because the brass is so clean it needs a little lube. So if you dry tumble cases in plain corn cob they will pick up tiny particles of corn cob dust and this will act as your lube to prevent sticking on the expander. When I load wet tumbled brass and use an M die, I get no sticking, and not dry tumbling in corn cob in this case. It's just an issue with an expander on a progressive press. |
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Posted: 2/27/2017 7:35:15 PM EST
[#35]
I found out why everyone loves M dies with 458 SOCOM. It makes the F/L sizing step much, much easier.
Another advantage is they need very light, if any lube. I F/L size with Imperial and when you have to use it inside the neck it doesn't tumble away easily. A light dust of neck lube before expanding does the trick and doesn't need to be removed. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 3:49:01 AM EST
[#36]
Custom M-die inserts for those needing other then factory.
The dual expander step is pretty much all I use for all things now, even my Dillon powder through Dies have this feature. Really helps with Cast/coated. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2017 6:13:12 AM EST
[#37]
I haven't seen it mentioned in here yet and getting into loading lead pistol bullets had me looking into the M and NOE dies.
Do the cases need to be of a uniform length in order to have uniform neck expansion? I use range pick up in 9 and 45 and while the Dillon PM expander has worked well for me in the past, I'll sometimes get a bullet that gets a little bit shaved off in the bulket seating die. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 8:26:31 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
I haven't seen it mentioned in here yet and getting into loading lead pistol bullets had me looking into the M and NOE dies. Do the cases need to be of a uniform length in order to have uniform neck expansion? I use range pick up in 9 and 45 and while the Dillon PM expander has worked well for me in the past, I'll sometimes get a bullet that gets a little bit shaved off in the bulket seating die. They are taper crimped, not roll crimped like revolver rounds where it does matter. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 2/28/2017 8:30:32 AM EST
[#39]
Length shouldn't be that critical unless it is extremely variable. The NOE inserts should have enough length to accommodate normal differences in length for a particular "step".
Now, if you mix in, say, the much shorter hornady FTX brass standard length brass, you might have an issue if you are using anything other than the third step. I used to have some m dies but don't have them anymore- are they also stepped or singl3 diameter? If single diameter it certainly won't matter. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2017 6:18:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
With straight cased semi auto rounds like you mentioned, the cases never need trimming. They are taper crimped, not roll crimped like revolver rounds where it does matter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
I haven't seen it mentioned in here yet and getting into loading lead pistol bullets had me looking into the M and NOE dies. Do the cases need to be of a uniform length in order to have uniform neck expansion? I use range pick up in 9 and 45 and while the Dillon PM expander has worked well for me in the past, I'll sometimes get a bullet that gets a little bit shaved off in the bulket seating die. They are taper crimped, not roll crimped like revolver rounds where it does matter. I've never trimmed a straight walled pistol case and didn't plan to. I use an FCD on all my straight walled pistol rounds to crimp, but the answer given by Redarts was the issue I was worried about: will some brass get a much larger step put in compared to others, and does that consequently have an impact of seating depths, FCD crimp applied, final neck tension, or any other factors I'm not thinking of. Also wondering how to use one of these on a 650 where the only open location for the die is after powder has been put in the case. |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 6:35:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: memsu]
[#41]
I've gone with an M die for all my calibers I reload on my progressive press. Makes seating the bullet and seating it lined up in the neck better.
For 300 BLK you need to use the 30 carbine M die. The 30 short one body is too long and won't work on progressive presses. If I had to do it over again I'd just by the Lee Universal expander and get the NOE expanders. Lyman had excellent customer service last time I used them when I broke my expander. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/28/2017 6:49:58 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By memsu:
I've gone with an M die for all my calibers I reload on my progressive press. Makes seating the bullet and seating it lined up in the neck better. For 300 BLK you need to use the 30 carbine M die. The 30 short one body is too long and won't work on progressive presses. If I had to do it over again I'd just by the Lee Universal expander and get the NOE expanders. Lyman had excellent customer service last time I used them when I broke my expander. So you use them after the case has been charged with powder to expand the neck prior to setting a bullet in the case by hand for seating? |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 7:32:45 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
So you use them after the case has been charged with powder to expand the neck prior to setting a bullet in the case by hand for seating? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
Originally Posted By memsu:
I've gone with an M die for all my calibers I reload on my progressive press. Makes seating the bullet and seating it lined up in the neck better. For 300 BLK you need to use the 30 carbine M die. The 30 short one body is too long and won't work on progressive presses. If I had to do it over again I'd just by the Lee Universal expander and get the NOE expanders. Lyman had excellent customer service last time I used them when I broke my expander. So you use them after the case has been charged with powder to expand the neck prior to setting a bullet in the case by hand for seating? Usually I've done all my brass prep work when I load on the progressive. Station 1: Lee Universal Deprime (removes anything that might be in flash hole) Station 2: Lyman M die Station 3: Powder drop Station 4: Bullet Seat Station:5 Lee factory crimp die |
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Posted: 2/28/2017 11:31:01 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edgephoto:
I plan to trim using a Dillon RT1500 on my press. Instead of the Lyman M die could I resize the neck after using a neck sizing die? I neck size after trimming with the PT1500. It also helps deburr the case. I tried the M die but had issues with neck tension being too loose. Current cycle is... Lee universal decapper, size/RT1500-> wet tumble (also helps deburr)-> neck size/prime, powder, seat, lee FCD------>SHOOT! |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/2/2017 6:08:36 PM EST
[#45]
I bought a 45ACP M die and it improved accuracy in my reloads of oversized cast bullets on a single stage. There was never a bullet bulge after the M die.
The M die helps bullets seat straight and reduces bullet bulges. Most recent I've read about is new M style powder thru dies for progressive presses at the powder station. They also help in situations like bulged .40 brass that gets undersized to eliminate the bulge. The M die type expands the case deeper so your bullet seats straighter and does not make a bullet bulge. Very helpful with oversize cast bullets and undersized brass. If you "SLOW DOWN" and make sure the bullet base is started in the case all the way around the base of the bullet there are no problems. No extra flare is needed. I wish I had the money to get one for my 550b for the next round of cast reloads. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2017 6:20:28 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
So.... Back to my questions... Has anyone used N.O.E.'s inserts for Lee's expander? It looks like it should work well, but I'd like to know if there are drawbacks compared to using Lyman's stuff. I use the NOE insert in the Lee for my 458 SOCOM. No problems. However, I opened the Lee expander for and noticed it had a .45 expander inside it. So the NOE expander sits in my reloading parts bin. |
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Posted: 3/4/2017 7:25:02 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
So you use them after the case has been charged with powder to expand the neck prior to setting a bullet in the case by hand for seating? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/5/2017 4:27:38 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Generally, the M-Die's expander part is too long to be able to charge the case before using the M-Die. This is one reason I won't be using the M-Die for .32 Auto...it won't fit into the short case. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
So you use them after the case has been charged with powder to expand the neck prior to setting a bullet in the case by hand for seating? This as my thought process as well, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to use one in a Dillon 650 with station one resizing and station two being the powder die. I currently have station three open and the bullet sister in four, but if the M die can't work to make a step in a charged case it's a non-starter for my needs. |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 4:41:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: Colt653]
[#49]
I'm using a REDDING neck sizer in the station after my RT1200 ( on the xl650)
but since you guys keep mentioning the M die, I've added it to my midway and amazon wish lists  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/5/2017 8:19:33 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
This as my thought process as well, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to use one in a Dillon 650 with station one resizing and station two being the powder die. I currently have station three open and the bullet sister in four, but if the M die can't work to make a step in a charged case it's a non-starter for my needs. Can you move the powder die to station 3? That would make it all work out for you. I don't see any hard and fast reason that the powder station must always be station 2. |
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