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Posted: 2/2/2019 7:29:39 PM EST
I have started reloading 223 again and have been concerned about overall case length and how it fits into the chamber. I have a go/no-go gauge I think that is made by Lyman that is for proving proper headspacing. I believe a lot of reloaders don't realize what headspacing is exactly, and how important it is. This type of guage is essential, imo. Another issue, that reflects the title of this thread, is the length of brass that is acceptable for reloading 223. The reloading books always tell you to trim your brass when it reaches 1.760“. So I wanted to see for myself what the chamber length of my two AR-15 really are so I can determine when I need to trim my brass. So I purchased a Sinclair chamber length gauge shown in the link below. Both my Rock River Arms national match AR-15 with a Wylde chamber, and my Palmetto State Armory Tactical AR 15 with a 5.56 chamber both measured 1.785" in length. I am thinking a trim length of 1.770 inches in length is tolerable for either chamber. Why cut off more brass than you have to?

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/sinclair-chamber-length-gage-prod32925.aspx
Link Posted: 1/31/2019 10:39:32 PM EST
[#1]
So you can be sure it is correct for any gun chambered for that round that you want to fire it in? So you do not have to trim as often? So the case neck end lines up with the cannelure without the bullet touching the lands? Because you don't want to change your trimmer setting for every barrel that caliber?
Link Posted: 2/1/2019 1:55:58 AM EST
[#2]
Link Posted: 2/1/2019 4:10:13 AM EST
[#3]
As a reloader, you missed a large part of why to trim brass other than chamber length, bullet seating and neck tension. Adding length will put you into the ogive of a lot of bullets.
Link Posted: 2/2/2019 4:49:01 AM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So you can be sure it is correct for any gun chambered for that round that you want to fire it in? So you do not have to trim as often? So the case neck end lines up with the cannelure without the bullet touching the lands? Because you don't want to change your trimmer setting for every barrel that caliber?
View Quote
Yes, i own two ar15s and both rifles have the same length chamber, 1.785".I will not use my reloads in other rifles unless I were to measure it first. Yes to your 3rd question as well. This is just plinker ammo anyway.
Link Posted: 2/2/2019 10:02:18 AM EST
[#5]
I'm unsure how or why headspace gauges are important to reloaders? Maybe someone can enlighten me on that?

The difference between a .223 and 5.56 is a longer leade. The case size remains the same so a .223 gauge would always work as a 5.56 gauge. Now military spec might call for a higher field/no-go gauge but they only use it on SAW/machine guns, not rifles.

What I do is take a Wilson CASE LENGTH HEADSPACE GAUGE and use that as a measurement. I check it twice over. Once I do the final reloading, I simply take the overall length recommended in the cook book and make sure it is within that spec. Never had any problems doing this. No popped primers, split case, or anything. But I'm not a mass produce reloader so maybe I haven't hit my explosion quota yet.
Link Posted: 2/2/2019 2:13:13 PM EST
[#6]
Good info here...

223 -vs- 5.56: FACTS and MYTHS
Link Posted: 2/2/2019 2:51:58 PM EST
[#7]
I trim brass every time I resize it. This insures consistency and allows me to cull brass that has leaked into my supply line.

Trimming every time removes very little brass after the first trimming session. Range pick up brass almost always needs a lot of metal removal, thus alerting me to keep it culled from my match grade brass.

Get a good power trimmer and you won't be bothered with the prospect of doing this chore. Giraud and Gracey Matchprep make the world a better place. It
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 11:32:58 AM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 12:04:35 PM EST
[#9]
Quoted:
I have started reloading 223 again and have been concerned about overall case length and how it fits into the chamber. I have a go/no-go gauge I think that is made by Lyman that is for proving proper headspacing. I believe a lot of reloaders don't realize what headspacing is exactly, and how important it is. This type of guage is essential, imo. Another issue, that reflects the title of this thread, is the length of brass that is acceptable for reloading 223. The reloading books always tell you to trim your brass when it reaches 1.760“. So I wanted to see for myself what the chamber length of my two AR-15 really are so I can determine when I need to trim my brass. So I purchased a Sinclair chamber length gauge shown in the link below. Both my Rock River Arms national match AR-15 with a Wylde chamber, and my Palmetto State Armory Tactical AR 15 with a 5.56 chamber both measured 1.785" in length. I am thinking a trim length of 1.770 inches in length is tolerable for either chamber. Why cut off more brass than you have to?

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/sinclair-chamber-length-gage-prod32925.aspx
View Quote
I understand your idea but am leery for several reasons:
-Did you notice in the description that Sinclair doesn't recommend the tool to be used in semi-auto rifles?  (At the bottom, scroll down)  Why? don't know..... but they said it.  (I have a guess but I'm not Sinclair)

-If you are off and too long, as others have mentioned, the excess neck material will be forced into the bullet, in effect crimping it and pressures will rise.

-With a longer neck, your loads may be off due to the increased pressure, so depending on your loads you may have to recalculate.

-I consider the case to expendable.  That is: it is a cheap part which eventually get used up and I then replace.  You are trying to extend the life of the case all the while adding all sorts of other variables (ie. you can only use the ammo in those barrels).
Why?  It's a fraction of a cent investment...…………  And for what benefit?  I don't think you'll see any difference in accuracy etc...……you'll still need to trim but now it's critical as you've "taken out any slack" in the dimensions.
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 3:04:24 PM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I am thinking a trim length of 1.770 inches in length is tolerable for either chamber.
(snip)
Yes, i own two ar15s and both rifles have the same length chamber, 1.785".I will not use my reloads in other rifles unless I were to measure it first. Yes to your 3rd question as well. This is just plinker ammo anyway.
View Quote
This is a mistake!  It is a big and fundamental mistake for any reloader.

It is a disaster waiting to happen.  If you go forward with this approach, you no longer have 223 Remington.  You have created a wildcat cartridge which might be aptly named "223 Nostradamus" or whatever but it is no longer 223 Remington.

Trim your brass to keep it within the SAAMI spec limits.

I have one of those gages for every cartridge I reload.  I have toyed with the concept you mentioned and have firmly decided against it.

I use them to ensure the chamber is within SAAMI specs.

I use them to ensure that the odd-ball case in a batch that might be a few mils too long will still be okay (so I don't have to measure every case every time).

Consider those extra few thousandths of an inch as "margin" against having a KABOOM!  Margin is your friend.

Those few mils mean nothing to accuracy, neck tension, case life,... they mean nothing good and can cause problems.

You will still trim with the same regularity as cases stretch beyond whatever limit you set.

However, chamber a cartridge that's too long for someone's chamber and you could have some serious trouble.  That you knew about it being out of spec will weigh against you.
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 5:05:43 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Consider those extra few thousandths of an inch as "margin" against having a KABOOM!  Margin is your friend.
View Quote
Would you consider a case length of 1.770" in a chamber that measures 1.785" in length a danger?  (These are proven lengths)
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 5:14:07 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

-Did you notice in the description that Sinclair doesn't recommend the tool to be used in semi-auto rifles?  (At the bottom, scroll down)  Why? don't know..... but they said it.  (I have a guess but I'm not Sinclair)
dimensions.
View Quote
Most likely it is because a bolt action rifle is more accurate in measuring the length because it doesn't engage the round so violently as a semi-auto does. For an AR-15, I chambered the round/guage with two different methods. First by breaking the gun down, upper from lower, and inserting the guage by pushing on the bolt until fully stopped. (1.785"). Second method, is by chambering a guage as if in full semi-automatic mode by placing the round on my bobsled and closing the bolt in full force. (1.783")
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 5:49:27 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Would you consider a case length of 1.770" in a chamber that measures 1.785" in length a danger?  (These are proven lengths)
View Quote
1.770" is out of spec for 223 Rem.

I've said all I have to say on this topic and you have my recommendation.  You're a big boy, it is up to you to chose well.
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 6:26:23 PM EST
[#14]
I'm not sure of any advantage.

Slick bullets like the 53gr VMAX and 77gr TMK will have the ogive below the mouth. LRRPF52 has had positive experience with such seating depth characteristic, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 7:28:58 PM EST
[#15]
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 9:58:23 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Most likely it is because a bolt action rifle is more accurate in measuring the length because it doesn't engage the round so violently as a semi-auto does. For an AR-15, I chambered the round/guage with two different methods. First by breaking the gun down, upper from lower, and inserting the guage by pushing on the bolt until fully stopped. (1.785"). Second method, is by chambering a guage as if in full semi-automatic mode by placing the round on my bobsled and closing the bolt in full force. (1.783")
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

-Did you notice in the description that Sinclair doesn't recommend the tool to be used in semi-auto rifles?  (At the bottom, scroll down)  Why? don't know..... but they said it.  (I have a guess but I'm not Sinclair)
dimensions.
Most likely it is because a bolt action rifle is more accurate in measuring the length because it doesn't engage the round so violently as a semi-auto does. For an AR-15, I chambered the round/guage with two different methods. First by breaking the gun down, upper from lower, and inserting the guage by pushing on the bolt until fully stopped. (1.785"). Second method, is by chambering a guage as if in full semi-automatic mode by placing the round on my bobsled and closing the bolt in full force. (1.783")
Sir:
I brought this up to point out to you are misusing the tool according to the manufacturer.
To me with a bolt action you can feel the resistance to chambering if the cartridge is not fitting the chamber or area.
With a semi, you can not.
Link Posted: 2/3/2019 10:02:34 PM EST
[#17]
Sir:  
I'll say this again...…….. while you seem determined to do this, I'm not sure what advantage you are trying to achieve.
As I, and others, have pointed out by leaving the cases so long, any mistake or variation in resizing or trimming the cases and seating the bullet could mean serious overpressure.
And for what?  What advantage is there in doing this?

In the mean time, you asked for advice and it was given.  Good luck!
Link Posted: 2/4/2019 8:16:04 AM EST
[#18]
Link Posted: 2/4/2019 8:16:30 AM EST
[#19]
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