Hi guys i know this has already been talked about plenty. I started saving for a tavor when they first came out and it looks like ill have around 2000, in the next two weeks. I want to make sure im buying the better gun. Can I hear what you guys think.

AUG - nearly 40 year history of being absolutely durable, dependable, reliable, and accurate. There are A1 AUG's in the US that are almost 35 years old and still function just as great as a new 2013 manufacture AUG A3.

Tavor - six month history in the US

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AUG - all factory parts can be found for purchase in the US

Tavor - no parts anywhere in the US except for left hand bolts

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AUG - user can install left hand bolt in under 5 minutes

Tavor - user must ship gun to IWI in PA, IWI has armorer install left hand bolt, IWI ships gun back to you

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AUG - spare barrels in many lengths currently available, with more barrel lengths and twist rates coming from Steyr within the next month

Tavor - no spare barrels available, no legal means to procure a spare barrel

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AUG - barrels change out in 3 (THREE) seconds

Tavor - user must disassemble gun to take the barrel off (~30 min+ job) Will IWI require you to send in your gun with purchase of spare barrel???

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AUG - 9mm kits available now, more inbound from Austria as I type this

Tavor - 9mm and 5.45x39 kits somewhere out there...

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AUG - Ability to use AR15 USGI/pmag type magazines

Tavor - Same

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AUG - standard A3 uses the AUG magazine, available in 30rd and 42rd versions, magazines are indestructible and vastly superior to USGI mags. Mag prices at $15 right now for both 30 and 42rd versions.

Tavor - "I am a Tavor, I complain that the AUG uses a proprietary magazine, yet I forget that the AK and many other guns use proprietary magazines. I also complain that the AUG uses AUG mags, but leave out the fact that AUG mags are superior to any AR type mag"

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AUG - NFA heaven. Registered receivers, registered hammerpacks, registered sears in abundance. Fairly cheap compared to M16 conversions and HK sears

Tavor - you want full auto, become an SOT and destroy your sample when you give up your license

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AUG - prolonged firing does not heat stock or foregrip, receiver and barrel of course will be hot, but stock and grip do not heat up nor retain heat

Tavor - prolonged firing heats the stock and the stock retains that heat long after the barrel has cooled

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AUG - cleaning is a painless 5 minutes

Tavor - cleaning is more complicated and for some reason carbon build up is more than what should be expected in a piston gun

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AUG - complete field strip takes 15 seconds

Tavor - field strip is also quick but you can only take out the hammerpack and bolt/carrier

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AUG - adjustable gas settings

Tavor - non adjustable gas settings

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AUG - will retain value forever, it is expensive, but a solid investment

Tavor - time will tell how well it holds value

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AUG - price equal to Tavor

Tavor - price equal to or higher than AUG

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AUG- very ergonomic gun, integrated foregrip is well designed

Tavor - very ergonomic also, adding a foregrip throws off ergonomics

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AUG - AR15 optic mounts and BUIS are cross compatible with the AUG

Tavor - standard height (cowitness) AR15 optic mounts are NOT compatible with the Tavor (unless you have a head the size of a grapefruit), lower 1/3 cowitness optic mounts will give a standard cowitness to the Tavor, as of today there is no option to give you anything other than a standard cowitness... if you like a heads up approach to optics, you are out of luck

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AUG - extremely durable firearm and magazines

Tavor - durability to be determined with time, magazines are only as good as the AR type mag you choose

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AUG - safety is crossbolt type and activates easily

Tavor - safety is AR type selector, made of plastic, no positive "click" to determine if safety is on or off

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AUG - all rails are metal

Tavor - side rail is plastic, optional rail underneath is plastic

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AUG - suppresses decently, Ratworx dedicated AUG suppressors supposedly make it better at suppression

Tavor - suppresses decently, but you may get "Tavor Face" <--- heavy carbon blowback on your face

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AUG - thread pitch is 13x1 LH and you must use a special check nut

Tavor - thread pitch is AR standard (1/2x28 RH), but you also must use a special check nut

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AUG - ability to store cleaning kit in separate covered compartment in stock

Tavor - very small space in stock for a few earplugs (not separate from action), compartment in grip also, but repeated on-off of plug is of questionable durability

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Don't rely on what anyone on here says, pick one up, shoulder it, pull the trigger, see how you like it and how it feels to you. If you can, fire them both before buying.
You may prefer the AUG over the Tavor or the Tavor over the AUG. They are both fine firearms. I owned both, but decided to stay with Steyr.

Anything else?

My Tavor's safety has a very positive click

The ratworkx trigger mod makes the AUG trigger MUCH nicer than stock, FWIW. I liked/love my AUG so much, I sold off my Sig 556 16". No small feat, IMO.

My .o2

Vaporware/unobtanium doesn't count, though. ;)
Love to see them actually be available, including if 2020 sold them direct or worked something out w/PJ.

Great summary given above.  
Have yet to shoot a Tavor, but there are a few around my area, so am hoping to do so in the future to compare to my AUG.
I don't see getting rid of my AUG for any reason, though.

Yeah. The AUG has this guy who is an invaluable wealth of knowledge.

It will be years before someone like Pete pops up for the Tavor.

Thanks maleante. Do you know where theres any augs in stock?

I bought mine a couple of months ago off of gunbroker from BPW (Birmingham Pistol Wholesale out of Trussville Alabama). I got it for $1829, it came with one 30 round mag, two 42 round mags, and the Steyr soft case. Communication with the seller was good and shipping was fast. I'd buy from them again. I'd also jump on the magazine deals that are out there right now. There's a thread going about 42 round mags for $19.99 that has links to several vendors with good deals going.  You might be able to find the rifle cheaper on gunbroker through somebody else, one of the reasons I bought it from BPW was at that time, 42 round mags were $49 each and the case was a $40-$50 value.

At one point, I owned the three major bullpups.  AUG, FS2000, Tavor.

FWIW, I traded the Tavor for a SCAR, and don't regret it.

The AUG is the bullpup that actually comes out of my safe on a regular basis.

There are features in each of the rifles that are attractive versus the other two options, but IMO, the AUG is the best compromise on all points.

My analysis was something like this:


Weight - FS2000
Overall Length - Tavor (26.xx for Tavor, 29.xx for FS2000, 27.xx for AUG)
Trigger - FS2000 (I know some will disagree, but my FS2000's reset is shorter than a pimp's temper)
Magazine Compatibility - AUG/Tavor
Optic compatibility - AUG
Railspace - AUG/Tavor - Don't like the Tavor's plastic rail.  AUG has various options if factory rail isn't enough for you
Perceived Reliability - AUG
Ejection - FS2000
Parts Availability - AUG, by a mile
Easo of Assembly/Disassembly - AUG
Sling Mounting Optoins - Tavor
Track Record - AUG
Factory Sights - Tavor

Pick what features are most important to you, and go from there.  At the end of the day, its the singer, not the song, and a shooter can run any of these rifles effectively.  None of them are deficient, just different.

I've owned an AUG since the early 90's.  I picked up the new A3 AUG Vltor receiver rifle when they came out.  I recently picked up a Tavor.

Tavor is an excellent rifle.  The AUG is a solid step superior to the Tavor.

I've really grown to like the new A3 AUG except that the picatinny plague has infected it, and it irks me beyond belief.

These guys have said pretty much all there is to say.  I'll add that *OUT OF BOX* the Tavor has a better trigger by a very noticeable amount.  I've run the trigger tamer in my AUG and it makes a big difference.  I also have an unobtanium trigger* (aka 2020/Ratworx HTM) but have yet to try it.  I will do an objective plus subjective report on those 3 AUG trigger options RSN I promise...

I think the A2 AUG is the cat's meow and agree that the A3 has a horrible case of railitis.  For $2K I'd pick the AUG over the Tavor though.  I'll probably light and laser and taser and grenade and whatever accessorize the Tavor as it sort of begs to be bogged down that way  The AUG is the undisputed crowd pleaser at the range though, and I can't wait for Pete to ship my 9mm kit  I don't *exactly* regret the Tavor, but I bought in during the height of the hype when they were made of solid unobtanium themselves and so I do get these little twinges every so often

HTH,
Richard

*I learned here that the HTM is actually quite obtainable - it's the hammer pack housings that are apparently hard for Ratworx to get, so it's quite easy to get your own HTM - just fork over for a spare hammer pack and send it to Ratworx.  They don't charge much/any less for the conversion than they would if they could get a whole pack to sell you, plus you pay for the spare pack.  On the plus side you can use an AUG A3 hammer pack (which I will confess I've grown to like the A3 bolt release) and you do end up with a very pretty pile of little plastic parts and some pins and springs from your organ donor hammer pack.

Does anyone have any hands on experience with these HTM triggers?  I have a spare trigger pack or two to sacrifice.  I'm up for it as long as it is reliable and safe.

The AUG trigger isn't that bad.  It is a military weapon designed for the worst conditions.  I do not expect 'match' trigger hardware.

I have a hard time with change.  I am getting used to the bolt catch and the springy charging handle.

I resent the two holes in the side of the receiver where I ditched that lil stupid rail.  The first time I fondled a Sabre AUG when they came out I raked the hell out of my fingers and bled on it.  Rail mania reminds me of Homer's car........'I wanna horn here, here, here and here.'

My Tavor trigger is amazingly the most awful trigger I've ever pulled.

I'm gonna yank that extra spring out of it and see if it helps.  Looks like an afterthought design wise.

What twist is the aug barrel? 1-8?

1/9 with 1/7s apparently coming very soon.

Some barrels in the US are already 1/7.

The standard configuration is a very well made 1/9, but you can choose to swap the barrel with a 1/7.

Really?  Don't you think it would be in the best interest of IWI to simply make that happen?

How do you suppose IWI makes that happen?
By offering a factory armorer course for the Tavor? Being a certified armorer via taking a course does not make one an expert.

Who in the US has more than 6 months experience with the Tavor?

The only people with any sort of experience or factory based knowledge are the IWI employees themselves...
If an IWI employee was smart, he would quit his job today and go into business for himself.

The forward rail heats up a lot with my AUG CQC, in retrospect I should have gotten the standard A3 but I like the rail height better on the CQC.  My Tavor seems to be more accurate than my AUG but both are acceptable.  It's true parts are scarce for the tavor but I am sure that will change.  They are concentrating on guns right now.

One Source tactical claims to have 2 in stock.
Personally, I'd call PJ and see what the wait is like, or he may have one on hand - best place to buy an AUG, and a great guy.

Did you mean "standard height (cowitness) AR15 optic mounts are NOT compatible with the Tavor"?
Are AR15 optics not compatible with the Tavor because the rail is not raised off the stock as far as it is on the AUG?


Good info, Maleante! Definitely makes me feel better about my AUG purchase .

This is apparent by your slightly skewed / exaggerated assessment.

Whoops...
I'll fix that.








Correct.
To be specific:
A standard height AR15 optic mount (known as "absolute cowitness") and a back up iron sights (BUIS) are not compatible with the Tavor.

But, a "lower 1/3 cowitness" optic mount will be compatible with the Tavor.
Using lower 1/3 mounts places the center of the optic inline (cowitness) with the built in flip up iron sights of the Tavor. It does this because the lower 1/3 mounts are taller than a standard absolute cowitness mount.

Feel free to point out where I exaggerated or made skewed comments.

I think your list of pro's and cons were quite accurate. I was about to purchase a Tavor until i discovered upon inspection , many of the things you pointed out. The Tavor is better executed than the AUG in some respects... but not enough to choose one over a proven bullet proof platform like the AUG.

OK then, when are you going to make more hybrid trigger packs available for the AUG?


Mick

I own both platform types.
The Tavor safety is by far superior to the goofy air gun quality cross bolt safety on the AUG!

Two pages and no "Get both"? WTF site is this?

I own a preban Steyr AUG and now have a Tavor ..both are 16 inch
I like alot about both ..... but the TAVOR has more going for it in design and features.

Serious bullpup bidness.

The Tavor safety's placement engages the damaged nerves in my hand.  I get stabbing pains when I use it.

I love the AUG safety, it (painlessly) swipes right in.

People are used to the AR platform and we all tend to go with what we know.

There is a new solution to the Tavor safety available now from Manticore Arms. Made out of aluminum and much shorter.

Good lord, those guys have been busy. I haven't checked to see what they had since I picked up a raptor way

back.

IN for their safety and ARC rail thingy.



 

I'm starting to think the Tavor Vs AUG is the new AR Vs AK

There will always be a versus game in the firearms world.

While I don't have an Aug I do own 2 Microtech STG's and the Tavor. I like the ergonomics of the Aug type STG's better. For what little shooting I've done with the Tavor it seems like a fine rifle. See which one fits you best and go for it.

Ok, ok, you're actually quite right - get both left and right configurations of both AUG and Tavor

4 >>> 1

The saftey for the AUG is intuitive and ergonomically correct. It is easily manipulated by gross motor manipulation. It is durable and damn near infallibe. I dont see how you can compare this saftey to "airsoft"... particularly when the AUG saftey was developed LONG before any airsoft tech was even thought about... and they are still around today in original design... because they work.

Air gun not, air soft.  Air guns pre date the AUG.

NICE PIC

Granted, That doesnt change the fact that the AUG saftey is very easy to operate , if your right handed, to remove saftey... push with the flat of your trigger finger without ever taking your finger off the trigger... to engage the safety .. push with your thumb... Is it different than the Tavor ( AR15 copy) ? yep... does that make it any less effective or reliable? nope.

Apples and Oranges....

On the Israeli "Tavor" it functions as a selector...

On the Austrian "STG77" it functions as a cross-bolt safety....
(the trigger pull - dictates rate of fire)

No argument there. All I am saying is that the AUG safety does its job well in a simple manner. So does the Tavor's safety, just because it isn't like the AUG's doesn't mean it sucks or vice versa.

+1
No need to have an argument over this.
Both are very fine rifles, just buy and use what you prefer

Absolutely , I am not arguing about quality, or dependability or even preference... just that the AUG safety is not a cheap airgun knock-off.  I like the safety selector on the Tavor also, very AR like... I would buy one if  didn't already have an AUG... or if AUG's weren't available

I am confused. I  have been researching bullpups also.  Does the Aug have AR mag capability ot not?

Yes, but it requires a NATO stock.

You can get the current generate AUG (A3) with a traditional stock, which accepts proprietary Steyr magazines, or with a "NATO" stock, which accepts typical AR mags.
You can also buy the stock + hammer pack separately to convert an existing gun to/from Steyr/NATO mags.

The 'traditional' stock allows for a left or right handed bolt (and thus left or right side ejection), and has a bolt release on the left had side of the stock.  You can choose to use the stock bolt release or cycle the charging handle.
The NATO stock does not have the stock mounted bolt release, so you must use the charging handle, and it does not allow for left hand bolt/ejection.  

The left or right hand bolt issue isn't important to me personally, but the lack of the bolt release on the NATO stock is a major annoyance; it may or may not be to you.  
I remain hopeful that one of these years Steyr will update the NATO stock...meanwhile, I don't feel as if I'm missing anything at all using the (very good) traditional stock and Steyr mags.