I am out of state and found 3 ar lowers for $39 each.  

I jumped on it but after filling out the paper work it was rejected.  It was not checked as a long gun or handgun.  It was marked other which includes receivers.  

The rule does not say it can't be an non-resident transaction.  

I guess that now you can only buy stripped lowers in your state of residency.  

Stripped lowers are classified as the firearm and treated as such. A stripped lower will be marked as "other" on the Form 4473 since it can be built into a pistol or rifle. You must be at least 21 years of age to purchase a stripped lower and legally be able to own a firearm. If you are not a resident in the state the lowers are being purchased, the lowers must be shipped to a FFL dealer in your area and a transfer is done by that dealer. It is simple as that.

As far as I knew, unless there is a stock on the lower, it has to be shipped to an FFL in your state.  I may be wrong on that, but I recall a site sponsor selling lowers with stocks to out of state residents visiting FL as rifles.

If the lower is sold with a stock already attached, it is classified as a rifle. If you are a resident in a neighboring state, as long as the firearm being sold is classified as a rifle, you can purchase it in another neighboring state. For example Mississippi can sell to residents in Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Tennessee. Florida can sell to Alabama and Georgia. Alabama can sell to Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, and Tennessee.

Misunderstanding on my part.  I wasn't aware of that.  

I'll eitger have then debt to my local or purchase in state.

If a lower with a stock attached is a rifle, then I've done $5,000,000 in business wrong.  A lower with a stock attached is still "other" and not a rifle because there is no barreled action.  It's still only able to be sold over the counter to a resident of my state.

If a person comes to me from another state, I have to ship that complete lower or stripped lower to a FFL in their state.

You can even buy a complete lower with a stock attached that has never been assembled with a barreled action and it transfers as Other.

Once there is a stock and barreled action, it becomes a rifle.

If you assemble a lower without a stock and put a barreled action on it, it is a pistol.  You can have a 20" barreled pistol if you want, just as long as there is no stock.

If you build this lower without stock, and put a barreled action on it, it's a pistol, and may become a rifle after you install a stock to it.  Also, if the lower starts it's life as a pistol, you may remove the upper, put a stock on it, and put a non NFA length upper on it and have a title-1 firearm.  You can also remove the stock and put a "nfa" length upper on it as long as the stock is not attached.

There is a lot of confusion regarding this.  But a complete lower with a stock, having never been attached to a barreled action, is not a rifle.  It is still a complete lower that transfers as other.

I have also sold long guns to residents of states which do not neighbor mine.  A resident of Mississippi can purchase a long gun from me.  So can a resident of Florida.  Or Michigan.

They do not have to be a resident of a neighboring state to purchase a long gun from me.

FWIW, in Virginia, stripped lowers cannot be processed and approved as "other". You have to state pistol or rifle on the Va State Police paperwork...or so I've been told and experienced firsthand.

Solid post!!!!

If it is not an adjoining state, the firearm has to shipped to a FFL dealer for transfer. With long guns, a person can purchase one in an adjoining state and the 4473 is filled out at that dealer and the NICS background check is done there as well. This is only for long guns and is only legal for purchases through a dealer. This does not apply for private sales. Private sales across state lines still require the firearm to be transferred by a dealer in the purchaser's state of residence.

Also, I just finished talking to a dealer friend of mine that has been in the business for nearly 40 years and he confirmed that any AR-15 lower that has a stock affixed to it is considered a rifle. When the lower is purchased, with a stock installed, from a dealer, it is treated just as a complete rifle would be. Additionally, since it would be considered as a rifle, it cannot be used for anything but a rifle. It can never be converted into a pistol. Doing so would be a violation of ATF regulations and would be a felony.

Incorrect.



"Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to
be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or
remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge
to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single
pull of the trigger."





How can a lower without a barrel, i.e. a rifled bore, meet this one and only legal definition of a rifle?



If that doesn't convince you then explain this:







 

You and your friend are both completely wrong and he's been filling out federal documents wrong if that's how he has been doing transfers. Just out of curiosity, what does he put as the caliber for a complete lower with a stock and no barreled action?

M4ger is correct.  Receivers that have not been built into complete firearms are still just receivers, and are transferred as "other".

He is also correct that the adjoining state rule is no more.  Under federal law, any dealer in any state can sell a title I long gun to a resident of another state who is not otherwise prohibited from owning said long gun.

Regardless of what's marked in the state level paperwork (if there is any), the 4473 should still be marked "other".

This letter shows that the dealer needs to be updated in his information regarding pistol-to-rifle-to pistol configuring.

As I said earlier, if a lower receiver begins it's life as a pistol, it can be switched to a rifle configuration and legally back to a pistol.

I'm not telling people to take their 6920 which is obviously born as a rifle and transferred as a rifle to remove the stock and put a 7.5" flame thrower up top without paying the NFA tax.

I am saying that when you take your stripped lower and want to start as a pistol for flexibility purposes, you can turn it into a rifle and back into a pistol legally.

Thank you Mr. Reagan.

Your friend has no grasp of the regulations.  

He has a bigger grasp that you guys think he does. He is a stickler when it comes to ATF regulations and stays current on them. He has to be for when ATF does their audits. He is also a Class III and has been for a few decades. I have been doing business with him for 10 years and he has always been very informative and helpful. So, if you guys want to call me and him liars, that is your choice. e have our facts straight. THE END.

No, you really don't. There are letters posted IN THIS THREAD describing the EXACT situation from the ATF stating that it is a receiver even if it comes with a stock attached. Again - I asked earlier and you didn't respond. If your FFL receives a lower w/ stock attached and does the transfer as a rifle, what caliber does he put on the 4473? Does he lie and make one up?

Repost for emphasis

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this. I just did a transfer at a local dealer and he was going to check pistol for a lower receiver with a buffer tube I had ordered new. I stopped him and he got the owner and the owner told him it was "other"

But I'm curious, the ATF letters are pretty clear. I'm confused as to how you can say your dealer is right when he clearly is not?

Eta: wouldn't it make sense to show your dealer friend the letters and get him on his way to doing it correctly?

The GWACS / Cav Arms lower has an integrated stock, yet is considered a stripped lower, requiring FFL transfer.

For a 4473, yes. I'm just saying that you're not leaving your LGS with a stripped lower without VSP paperwork which requires rifle or pistol.

Why are so many people incapable of reading the directions on the 4473? It is unbelievable.



How much easier can it get?

This ^...

RIF!!!

This is correct.  There's been a lot of discussion in this thread, but a lot of it seemed to bypass the main issue, which is this:  You are allowed to buy a rifle or shotgun from a dealer outside your home state, as long as the laws of both the state where the deal takes place, and your home state, allow it.  You are not allowed to buy any other firearm outside your state of residence (without transferring through an in-state FFL).  A lot of people get this turned around, and think the rule is that you can't buy a handgun outside your state of residence.  Though this is true, and it's almost certainly the most common application of the rule, it misses the case of "firearms" that are neither handguns nor long guns.

So the issue is not that the lower was a handgun, or could have been made into a handgun; the issue is that the lower is not (and cannot be, whether stripped or not) a rifle.  The legal definition of a "firearm" includes a frame or receiver, but the definition of "rifle" does not.

I don't see the word liar above your post... no big deal, your friend is wrong and you're butt-hurt that your image of him has been shattered by facts... we all learn something. Now is a great time for you to show your friend your appreciation and share your newly discovered knowledge with him... repay his kindness and friendship by helping him learn something new.