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Posted: 6/11/2024 9:46:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Small update…no pictures. Got the recoil rod welded back up and stock reassembled.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2024 11:39:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Rookie here. Can I have your opinions on if this part is serviceable for a build. Thanks in advance
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Posted: 6/12/2024 12:09:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freefloater294: Rookie here. Can I have your opinions on if this part is serviceable for a build. Thanks in advance https://i.postimg.cc/ph7brqtJ/IMG-2923.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yJQ2pvWC/IMG-2924.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/75NF0xk6/IMG-2925.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/hJPH0HD0/IMG-2926.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/PpC9gY8p/IMG-2927.jpg I’m a rookie too, but I don’t see any red flags. The band saw cut didn’t get down into the trunnion. Looks okay. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 12:27:00 AM EDT
[#4]
APEX kits back in stock.
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Posted: 6/12/2024 12:29:34 PM EDT
[#5]
If I wanted to get a new stock for my kit, would any G3 stock work? Just swap over the buffer into a standard G3 stock?
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Posted: 6/12/2024 1:37:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: If I wanted to get a new stock for my kit, would any G3 stock work? Just swap over the buffer into a standard G3 stock? The stock body itself is the same. However, there is an insert inside the stock body that screws to the buffer that is different. This insert cannot be removed from the HK21 stock because of the two "pin holders" near the rear of the stock. Those two non-removable cross pins inside the stock prevent swapping the insert out. With all of that said, I don't really think the insert is a big deal, and I wouldn't be afraid to at least trying a G3 stock body and see how it goes. Have you found a source for a like new G3 stock body? JT |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 1:38:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#7]
Delete
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Posted: 6/12/2024 2:07:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jntmjt1: The stock body itself is the same. However, there is an insert inside the stock body that screws to the buffer that is different. This insert cannot be removed from the HK21 stock because of the two "pin holders" near the rear of the stock. Those two non-removable cross pins inside the stock prevent swapping the insert out. With all of that said, I don't really think the insert is a big deal, and I wouldn't be afraid to at least trying a G3 stock body and see how it goes. Have you found a source for a like new G3 stock body? JT Thanks. I was looking at the clubfoot style G3 stocks on HK parts. I like the hk21e type look. They are like $230 for just the stock body. https://hkparts.net/all-parts/mm-hk-33-91-93-g3-5-56-223-7-62x51-308-clubfoot-with-heavy-rubber-buttpad/ |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 2:17:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: Thanks. I was looking at the clubfoot style G3 stocks on HK parts. I like the hk21e type look. They are like $230 for just the stock body. https://hkparts.net/all-parts/mm-hk-33-91-93-g3-5-56-223-7-62x51-308-clubfoot-with-heavy-rubber-buttpad/ I considered one of those stocks, but decided I'm going to keep the "all-original" Portuguese look. I would like to find a new G3 green stock body though because mine is pretty rough, and I'll be refinishing all of the other parts. So, the rough stock will look out of place on the newly refinished parts. I'm having trouble finding a new condition stock body though. They used to be a dime a dozen (like a lot of things). JT |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:48:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Type7SOT]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jntmjt1: I considered one of those stocks, but decided I'm going to keep the "all-original" Portuguese look. I would like to find a new G3 green stock body though because mine is pretty rough, and I'll be refinishing all of the other parts. So, the rough stock will look out of place on the newly refinished parts. I'm having trouble finding a new condition stock body though. They used to be a dime a dozen (like a lot of things). JT I really like the upgraded "E" look, here is what I believe to be a 21 with an E stock and carry handle. Or maybe this is an A1?:  Attached FileBy the way, I took my buffer out of the stock:  Attached File Attached FileDoes that look correct? The buffer moves freely but is very firm. I needed to use a vice to compress it. Not sure if thats normal or not. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:50:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: By the way, I took my buffer out of the stock: Does that look correct? The buffer moves freely but is very firm. I needed to use a vice to compress it. Not sure if thats normal or not. That is the correct buffer. It is normal that it is very hard to compress. That is how it should be. JT |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:56:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: I really like the upgraded "E" look, here is what I believe to be a 21 with an E stock and carry handle. Or maybe this is an A1?: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006386_jpg-3239156.JPG By the way, I took my buffer out of the stock: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006387_jpg-3239157.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006388_jpg-3239158.JPG Does that look correct? The buffer moves freely but is very firm. I needed to use a vice to compress it. Not sure if thats normal or not. That’s not a 21A1. The A1 used a swing down feed mech. That’s a Vollmer 21, likely with E upgrades from RDTS. Ralph called those the 21EUG. The upgrades consisted of adding a forward assist, E type receiver reinforcement rails, two short weaver rails for optic mounting, E buffer, lengthened cocking slot to allow an E buffer. That 21 has some of the upgrades. This has a 21a1 mech on it.   |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 4:57:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Looks right to me. CFS is being really cool about my G3 buffer and sending me another stock/buffer assy like that one.
The way the old one is beat up may explain why the feed mechanism looks almost unused. My shoulder kinda aches just looking at that thing. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 9:30:09 PM EDT
[#14]
So I just stumbled across this a little while ago and hadn’t heard anyone mention it before:
https://www.cryostructure.com/product/hk21-barrel-7-62mm/ A bit more than RCM’s rumored pricing. Not sure if that’s with all the hardware either but if you need one sooner, it might be an option. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 9:49:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: So I just stumbled across this a little while ago and hadn’t heard anyone mention it before: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/hk21-barrel-7-62mm/ A bit more than RCM’s rumored pricing. Not sure if that’s with all the hardware either but if you need one sooner, it might be an option. That’s awesome. CHF CL. I wonder if they are cut for the E extractor. I really hope so. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 10:15:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BASE: So I just stumbled across this a little while ago and hadn’t heard anyone mention it before: https://www.cryostructure.com/product/hk21-barrel-7-62mm/ A bit more than RCM’s rumored pricing. Not sure if that’s with all the hardware either but if you need one sooner, it might be an option. Very interesting. If the RCM’s don’t come in by Sept…or my wallet recovers by the time these are available, I’m gonna probably go this route. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/12/2024 10:56:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Heineken]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jntmjt1: The stock body itself is the same. However, there is an insert inside the stock body that screws to the buffer that is different. This insert cannot be removed from the HK21 stock because of the two "pin holders" near the rear of the stock. Those two non-removable cross pins inside the stock prevent swapping the insert out. With all of that said, I don't really think the insert is a big deal, and I wouldn't be afraid to at least trying a G3 stock body and see how it goes. Have you found a source for a like new G3 stock body? JT A G3 stock section will work fine, you might have to open up the hole for the buffer to fit, it's fatter then a reg G3 buffer. You don't need that insert. I have already been testing the buffer from my kit against other buffers in my ptr91 using multiple different stock set ups. HK parts has excellent condition HK g3 green stocks for like 35 bucks...it's the entire G3 assembly with recoil rod spring buffer end plate...but you can rob the stock section off it...it is a different shade of green then the FMP stocks though. If you want black just get a PTR stock section for like 40 bucks...they look exactly like an HK stock section. My rough non scientific initial testing in my ptr91, the 21 buffer seemed better to me then the stock buffer, better then bill Springfield buffer I have, and also felt better then an HK parts msg90 us made buffer. My g3 heavy buffer felt maybe a little better then the 21 buffer, but I have to compare some more, it was a negligible difference at best. These 21 buffers have the same ass end as a G3 heavy buffer, but the piston part that goes in and out is much shorter then a G3 heavy. |
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Posted: 6/12/2024 10:58:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Heineken: A G3 stock section will work fine, you might have to open up the hole for the buffer to fit, it's fatter then a reg G3 buffer. You don't need that insert. I have already been testing the buffer from my kit against other buffers in my ptr91 using multiple different stock set ups. HK parts has excellent condition HK g3 green stocks for like 35 bucks...it's the entire G3 assembly with recoil rod spring buffer end plate...but you can rob the stock section off it...it is a different shade of green then the FMP stocks though. If you want black just get a PTR stock section for like 40 bucks...they look exactly like an HK stock section. My rough non scientific initial testing in my ptr91, the 21 buffer seemed better to me then the stock buffer, the bill Springfield buffer I have, felt better then an HK parts msg90 us made buffer. My g3 heavy buffer felt maybe a little better then the 21 buffer, but I have to compare some more. These 21 buffers have the same ass end as a G3 heavy buffer, but the poison part that goes in and put is much shorter then a G3 heavy. That’s some great context! Glad to hear these buffers will at least do a decent job. |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 12:29:58 PM EDT
[#19]
I pulled the trigger and ordered a clubfoot stock from HK parts ($230) and a surplus black grip ($8). A little spendy on the stock, but I think it will be worth it in the end. Not just for looks but also when shooting, its nice to be able to pull the stock into your shoulder with your off hand.
Its technically wrong but I dont care 
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Posted: 6/13/2024 12:30:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: That’s not a 21A1. The A1 used a swing down feed mech. That’s a Vollmer 21, likely with E upgrades from RDTS. Ralph called those the 21EUG. The upgrades consisted of adding a forward assist, E type receiver reinforcement rails, two short weaver rails for optic mounting, E buffer, lengthened cocking slot to allow an E buffer. That 21 has some of the upgrades. This has a 21a1 mech on it. https://i.imgur.com/7PLCpEU.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iAWuAk0.jpg Great information thanks. And that gun looks sexy AF |
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Posted: 6/13/2024 5:02:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: I pulled the trigger and ordered a clubfoot stock from HK parts ($230) and a surplus black grip ($8). A little spendy on the stock, but I think it will be worth it in the end. Not just for looks but also when shooting, its nice to be able to pull the stock into your shoulder with your off hand. Its technically wrong but I dont care I’ll be doing the same. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2024 7:59:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: Great information thanks. And that gun looks sexy AF Thx, it’s a few pieces of receiver short of a complete gun. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 1:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cms81586]
[#23]
I is welder now.
Got some coaching from a friend today and ended up with some okay practice welds within an hour. Still some too hot and some too cold…some too fast and some too slow… Lots more practice to go but it’s a start…  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 2:21:35 PM EDT
[#24]
My APEX tripod arrived today. The condition is much, much better than the one shown in their pictures online. There is zero corrosion, the parts all move freely, and the paint is overall intact, the back-pads are not damaged, no dents, the clear leveling bubble is not broken, and the canvas carrying straps were included. Heck, there's hardly any dirt on it to clean up. The tripods are pricey, but once APEX is out of stock, they will likely be more of a "name your price" type item. Based on what I received, if you are on the fence, I'd order one.
JT |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2024 9:27:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Do these use G3 extractors?
One of may kits came missing and extractor and spring. If it's just G3 parts I won't bother CFS. |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 10:36:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eyegun: Do these use G3 extractors? One of may kits came missing and extractor and spring. If it's just G3 parts I won't bother CFS. Yes, they use the G3 type extractor and spring: https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/G3-PTR91-HK21-EXTRACTOR-NEW-POF-p6305.htm |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 10:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#27]
I spent more time than I should have, looking for some of these in action.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/14/2024 10:51:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#28]
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Posted: 6/14/2024 10:58:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: I is welder now. Got some coaching from a friend today and ended up with some okay practice welds within an hour. Still some too hot and some too cold…some too fast and some too slow… Lots more practice to go but it’s a start… https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2980/IMG_1919_jpeg-3240333.JPG Those look better than mine. I have been practicing on some Al that was laying around. I need to look for some sheet steel to practice on. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 7:01:21 AM EDT
[#30]
What do you guys think about trying to adapt this to work with an HK21?
 Attached Filehttps://tribetacticalsupply.com/bfm-200-200-round-soft-magazine-linked-ammunition-magazine/ |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 9:17:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pro_Patria_431: Those look better than mine. I have been practicing on some Al that was laying around. I need to look for some sheet steel to practice on. Lowe’s has 16ga sheets of cold rolled steel (same thickness as the receiver) for $12 or so. That’s what I’m using to practice on for now. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 9:21:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BASE]
[#32]
Originally Posted By Type7SOT: What do you guys think about trying to adapt this to work with an HK21? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006420_jpg-3241311.JPG https://tribetacticalsupply.com/bfm-200-200-round-soft-magazine-linked-ammunition-magazine/ Looks like one feller over on the HK forums is doing just that. He printed an adapter. I was thinking of making a sheet metal adapter that uses those pin holes that are already in the FMP’s. About 2/3rds of the way down this page are a couple of pics: https://www.hkpro.com/threads/hk21-fmp-parts.575969/page-2? Weld on adapter plate that could be used: https://www.hi-desertdog.com/belt-fed-rifles-machine-guns/belt-fed-spare-parts/m249-receiver-group/m249-weldment-feed-box-retainer.html I have an old MG3 feed tray with a busted mounting lug I was considering grafting to a lower plate. The MG3 drums are almost free, but they are only 50 rnds. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 11:36:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: What do you guys think about trying to adapt this to work with an HK21? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006420_jpg-3241311.JPG https://tribetacticalsupply.com/bfm-200-200-round-soft-magazine-linked-ammunition-magazine/ I have a mk48 nutsack to use with a 21E. An adapter for the 21 to use the mk48 nutsack would be great. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 1:24:04 PM EDT
[#34]
is anyone on here going to do a build and show us step by step on this? maybe some videos like from start to finish? like separating the trunion?
I think it would be a big help to us all so we can all build one. I know there is some pretty skilled guys on here. I have wanted to do one of these for years. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 2:26:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By handym3000: is anyone on here going to do a build and show us step by step on this? maybe some videos like from start to finish? like separating the trunion? I think it would be a big help to us all so we can all build one. I know there is some pretty skilled guys on here. I have wanted to do one of these for years. That’s what this thread is…essentially. I’m just not done yet. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 2:29:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: What do you guys think about trying to adapt this to work with an HK21? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006420_jpg-3241311.JPG https://tribetacticalsupply.com/bfm-200-200-round-soft-magazine-linked-ammunition-magazine/ |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 2:59:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By osprey21: I don't know what they used but the old NASA security helicopter door guns were HK21s with some type of feed bag on them. NASA had 21E iirc.  Looks to be a 21E with 22” barrel and a flexible feed chute. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:29:40 PM EDT
[#38]
Anyone have info on checking bolt gap on these? I know almost nothing about HK's.
Does the barrel need to be installed when checking bolt gap? If I check mine with no barrel, there is zero bolt gap, and still some play between the bolt and trunnion. Is this bad? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:37:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: barbcue]
[#39]
How hard will it be to make/quasi convert one of these to a 21-a1 model ?
I wouild like to add the Clubfoot stock and the carry handle that the a1 version came with. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:40:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: Anyone have info on checking bolt gap on these? I know almost nothing about HK's. Does the barrel need to be installed when checking bolt gap? If I check mine with no barrel, there is zero bolt gap, and still some play between the bolt and trunnion. Is this bad? You have to have the barrel installed. As you have found, you'll have no gap with no barrel. With the gun fully assembled and unloaded, close the bolt and pull the trigger. Use a feeler gauge to measure the thin gap between the bolt head and the bolt carrier. JT |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:47:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Type7SOT]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jntmjt1: You have to have the barrel installed. As you have found, you'll have no gap with no barrel. JT Thats what I figured, thanks! Also, just saw your edit. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 8:48:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jntmjt1]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By barbcue: How hard will it be to make/quasi convert one of these to a 21-a1 model ? I wouild like to add the Clubfoot stock and the carry handle that the a1 version came with. It would take some custom work to install a carry handle (there's no mounting point for one on these kits), but it could be done. The clubfoot stock would not be a problem. A forward assist could be added, but the bolt carrier would need to have the notches cut in it for the forward assist to work. The newer style mounting points for the upgraded scope mount could be added easily, too. Of course all of these upgrades would add a LOT to the overall cost of the project. And at the end of the day, the swing down feed mechanism is what the "real" upgrade on the A1 and the E guns is. And that swing down feed mechanism isn't happening on these kits. JT |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2024 9:03:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JoshNC]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jntmjt1: It would take some custom work to install a carry handle (there's no mounting point for one on these kits), but it could be done. The clubfoot stock would not be a problem. A forward assist could be added, but the bolt carrier would need to have the notches cut in it for the forward assist to work. The newer style mounting points for the upgraded scope mount could be added easily, too. Of course all of these upgrades would add a LOT to the overall cost of the project. And at the end of the day, the swing down feed mechanism is what the "real" upgrade on the A1 and the E guns is. And that swing down feed mechanism isn't happening on these kits. JT There seems to have been a transitional 21a1 variant as well, which appears to use a modified 21 receiver and 21 feed mech that is modified to swing down. It shares some receiver similarities with the 23a1. Here is a discussion about it on HKPRO. If anyone could tackle such a project to build that transitional 21a1, it’s you JT…. |
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Posted: 6/15/2024 10:25:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: If anyone could tackle such a project to build that transitional 21a1, it’s you JT…. Haha! Thanks, but that's a road I'm not going down. I decided to keep it simple and am going with the all original version. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 2:34:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: barbcue]
[#45]
please remove
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 2:45:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: barbcue]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/490765/1000006386_jpg-3239156.JPG I dont want it to get too out of hand either. I just want the clubfoot and the carry handle.. On that note i wish i could find a good clear picture of how the carry handle on the above early HK21 was mounted to the receiver. Seems like its a little different on every version. |
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MP, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 4:11:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By barbcue: I dont want it to get too out of hand either. I just want the clubfoot and the carry handle.. On that note i wish i could find a good clear picture of how the carry handle on the above early HK21 was mounted to the receiver. Seems like its a little different on every version. Personally I’d skip the carry handle. It adds bulk and tends to peen the receiver in the right side when allowed to spring closed. But if you must have it, you’ll need the support weldnent, handle, axle, e-clip, and spring. The 21 and 21e carry handles are out of stock at RTG. They have the 21A1. The type of handle really relates to where on the gun the mounting support is welded. https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-MOUNTING-SUPPORT-FOR-CARRY-HANDLE-219p6059.htm https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-A1-CARRY-HANDLE-NEW-GERMAN-219p5613.htm https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-CARRY-HANDLE-AXLE-NEW-AXIS-PIN-219p6087.htm |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 5:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Type7SOT]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoshNC: Personally I’d skip the carry handle. It adds bulk and tends to peen the receiver in the right side when allowed to spring closed. But if you must have it, you’ll need the support weldnent, handle, axle, e-clip, and spring. The 21 and 21e carry handles are out of stock at RTG. They have the 21A1. The type of handle really relates to where on the gun the mounting support is welded. https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-MOUNTING-SUPPORT-FOR-CARRY-HANDLE-219p6059.htm https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-A1-CARRY-HANDLE-NEW-GERMAN-219p5613.htm https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/HK21-CARRY-HANDLE-AXLE-NEW-AXIS-PIN-219p6087.htm FYI, the $5 "mounting support" is basically useless. Its part of the actual carry handle, NOT the part that gets welded to the receiver. If you buy the carry handle, it already has that part. Thats probably why its only $5. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2024 7:12:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: barbcue]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Type7SOT: FYI, the $5 "mounting support" is basically useless. Its part of the actual carry handle, NOT the part that gets welded to the receiver. If you buy the carry handle, it already has that part. Thats probably why its only $5. i noticed that as well. The big one is the weld fitment part that goes on the gun itself. It has to be correct to which ever version of the handle one goes with. looks like RTG has the 21 axle i noticed HK Parts has the 21 spring. I wonder if RTG will be getting anymore 21 carry handles in ? Maybe i will send him an email asking if thats a possiblity and if he has access to someone making the weld fitment parts for the 21. (Email to RTG sent) |
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Posted: 6/16/2024 7:18:03 PM EDT
[#50]
The carry handle seems like it would be, well...handy. I'm curious what the weldment that it attaches to on the gun looks like. Surely it couldn't be too hard to make one.
What are you guys doing for the reinforcing rails? I see HK parts has them back in stock now but damn they are spendy. BPP has them listed but someone on WG mentioned they don't really have them in stock. |
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